BS: DDT and autism

Subject: BS: DDT and autism
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 01:25 PM

This is not good but may explain something.

https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/a-banned-pesticide-still-present-in-the-environment-has-been-further-linked-to-autism/

Subject: RE: BS: DDT and autism
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 04:19 PM

I wouldn't doubt it but my explanation includes people hundreds of years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: DDT and autism
From: Mossback
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 07:00 PM

I F**king Love Blogs. The source of all knowledge.

Nope - its thimerosal, dontcha know. Or nutmeg. Or lay lines. Or flu vaccine. Or extra-terrestrials. Or bugger-all.

Subject: RE: BS: DDT and autism
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 06:16 AM

The source for that was traceable and reputable. Nor was the language scaremongering.

Subject: RE: BS: DDT and autism
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 07:12 AM

Did the study get many citations? Usually that's a good guide to how well respected it and its authors are. Interesting theory - though surely if DDT was banned in 1972 the number of autistic children should be going down, not up?

What pesticides are used in Silicon Valley, where there's a famous cluster of autism? Neonics?

Subject: RE: BS: DDT and autism
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 08:26 AM

The effect suggested is nowhere near large enough for it to explain the entire apparent increase in autism. It's consistent with the idea that there are multiple causative pathways, which is the current consensus as far as I know.

DDT is so persistent in the body and the environment that a continuing effect for most of a century sounds pretty reasonable. I've almost certainly got traces of it in my body fat laid down in the 1950s.

Subject: RE: BS: DDT and autism
From: Iains
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 08:50 AM

There are many studies to demonstrate harm to a foetus by alcohol and tobacco. There must be numerous synthetic chemicals in the environment today with totally unknown impacts on humans. DDT as a potential cause of ASD can be thrown in with a host of other environmental factors as a potential causative agent. But, ASD is also thought to be Genetic, Psychological and Neurological. As ASD can clearly seen as a transgenerational problem the genetic factor can regarded as proven. What peer reviewed studies support the other possible causes I have no knowledge of.
Secondary ASD is entirely genetic:

Some conditions that are known to cause symptoms of ASD are listed below:

    Fragile X syndrome:
    Tuberous sclerosis:
    Rett syndrome:

Subject: RE: BS: DDT and autism
From: leeneia
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 12:06 PM

It's hard to take a study of a heartbreaking condition such as autism seriously when the write-up of the study includes a smart-ass cartoon with singing fruits and vegetables.

Subject: RE: BS: DDT and autism
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 12:16 PM

From nineteen-fucking-forty-seven.
They thought it would save the world. In fact, it might have totally wiped out malaria, but did way too much damage.

Subject: RE: BS: DDT and autism
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 12:20 PM

Those specific syndromes are a kind of side issue, as (given adequate medical screening) there isn't ever going to be much doubt that someone's got one of them and why. There is more of an issue with the cases that don't have such an obvious cause, as whatever the causes are might be something we can do something about. Indecisive, preliminary or downright speculative work might well help.

Subject: RE: BS: DDT and autism
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 05:08 AM

That's big data for you.

Bias in the data, is bias in the result.

Correlation ain't causation.

Subject: RE: BS: DDT and autism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 06:37 AM

And science doesn't "prove" anything really.

Subject: RE: BS: DDT and autism
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 07:43 AM

Bollocks to that. DDT was so widely used you can find subgroups to control for any conceivable confounding factor. This is exactly the sort of situation where "big data" really works.

Subject: RE: BS: DDT and autism
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 08:35 AM

A combination of factors is more probable than a single factor. The age of the father is one such additional factor.

Subject: RE: BS: DDT and autism
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Oct 18 - 03:37 AM

This is exactly the sort of situation where "big data" really works.

Big claims!

Bias is bias. And is already in the data. I can give you a clear examples that ya cain't do much about, but at least we (collectively) have enough humility to spot.

Pregnant women and women of child-bearing age rarely figure in new drug trials. Black people are under represented in some trials. Jews of a fundamentalist persuasion have rules that would exclude them from trials. Other religions do similar but they are less likely to have common genetic uniqueness's.

Then there is the self-selective sample conundrum................

It's a jungle out there. And experts bicker on the finest detail, especially when there is funding in the balance.

TED.com has a lecture on a guy who led a project to correlate web searches for interactions between two drugs. Micro$oft provided anonymised data that Goggle decline to. He came up with warnings that could be investigated. But the investigation is the clue, big data pointed and he followed up. Without follow-up, it is big data and has to be acknowledged as such, with all it's caveats properly in place.