BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Jos
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 09:38 AM

I grew up unaware of any Catholic connection with Guy Fawkes - it was all about the attempt to blow up Parliament, an attack on democracy.
The bonfires in Lewes are a different matter, but in Somerset I knew nothing of that.

History lessons in school can be biased in any case. In primary school we were taught a simple version of English history by a socialist - the Roundheads were the goodies and the Cavaliers were the baddies. Then in secondary school the opposite happened, and the Cavaliers were suddenly the goodies, with the Roundheads as the baddies.
I learned not to believe everything I was told.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 09:46 AM

Hahaha Jos, do you remember '1066 And All That'? "The Cavaliers were Wrong but Wromantic, and the Roundheads were Right but Repulsive"!!

On reflection, it is very insulting to Roman Catholics to burn an effigy of one of their heroes every year. If people burnt a black man doll like that there'd be ructions (quite rightly)
I don't know if Guys are even made nowadays.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 09:54 AM

And thank you Jon. I'm off for my nap now, but this evening I'll have a go with your Chrome method!

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 12:05 PM

"I have no cats. Not since 2013."

Good. The whole fucking lot of them should be shot. Filthy little fuckers.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 02:03 PM

Well, what’s wrong with fireworks?
    Well, they disturb millions and millions of people’s peace and quiet. They scare the shit - literally - out of millions of wild and domestic animals. ( and keeping pets inside does not prevent them being scared to death.)
    My philospher is that you can do what you like but don’t let your entertainment impact on others...millions of others when it comes to fireworks.
    It’s the old thing about selfish people wanting to do something and not giving a damn about the impact on others. It’s a bit like the “smoking in public places” debate.
    And, of course, firework displays seem to be more about extremely loud explosions rather than pretty pictures in the sky.
      Unfortunately, I live in a town where the local council LOVE firework displays. We have lots and lots including a three day firework competition.
    Interestingly, the displays are held within yards of a protected nature reserve AND a hundred yards from some rest homes for the elderly, and I know, for a fact, that those places have quite a lot of old folk with dementia who are convinced that they are back in the blitz - when the firework explosion start -and get into a terrible state.
    Finally, this “like it or lump it” attitude towards the disturbance caused by fireworks convinces me that - contrary to what many people believe - human beings are basically very, very selfish and not very nice as a species.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 02:15 PM

My dog has been trained to defecate on command ...admittedly when we go out for her morning 'emptying' walk! She chooses her spot..off the track (has to be exactly the right place). I always have poo bags to remove the dog logs from ground, take to bin.
The cat has several favourite spots in our jungle-like garden...none in a flower bed!
(I have seen a cat training method which enables them to use the human toilet! Seems to work....)

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 03:41 PM

I was joking about them all deserving to be shot, Moll - I've kept cats and like them well enough. I just wanted to make the point that broad-brush sweeping statements are easy to make, but not so easy to justify.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 03:43 PM

My Border Terrier pees and poos on command too although, as you say, he demands the right to personally select the precise 'right' spot - almost always on grass, very seldom elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 06:56 PM

.....i still wanna know what Steve's gonna do if he ever needs an assistance dog.....

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 07:37 PM

It's simple. I would rather hack off my dangly bits with a rusty machete than share my life with a dog. Even relatively clean dogs (and that's the best they ever achieve) stink. I bought this house 32 years ago from people who had two of those ghastly golden retrievers. Shaggy, smelly, slobbery, waggy abominations. "Don't worry, they're only being friendly." Well if I affected to be "only friendly" by jumping up with muddy feet on strangers' chests, trying to make love to their shin, then leaving a disease-ridden pile of poo on the grass in the park, I'd have been spending most of my life in an institution. It took two years to extirpate the pong of dog from the house. Get a life and make friends with real human beings, not some sycophantic, intelligence-free purveyor of bad breath and an unwiped arse. You will never find me relying on any cur. That will simply never happen. I absolutely promise you. I'd rather die on a spike. And I probably will if John reads this. Allow me a small mercy, BWM, and leave your hound at home as you come to impale me. At least I'd die without the pong of dogshite in my nostrils.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 08:47 PM

Prick.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 09:16 PM

Y'know Steve, this thread is clearly a conversation, between concerned animal lovers, about the negative effects of fireworks on their pets. By coming in with your nasty, spiteful, and unnecessary comments, you're indulging in the same kind of mischief-making as our resident Right-Wing Extremists inflict on 'political' threads. Your posts are quite deliberate attempts to offend the dog-owners here and stir up I'll-feelings - you know as well as anyone that that is the behaviour of a troll.

We get it, you're afraid of dogs, and a squeamish wimp where they are concerned - well tough shit, that's your problem, nobody else's. And nobody forced you to involve yourself in this thread, you could have passed it by, but you've chosen to do so yourself, and you've chosen to do it in a particularly unpleasant, trolling manner.

I'm very disappointed, I thought far better of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: leeneia
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 10:00 PM

Should fireworks be banned?

In my city, they are banned. Yet fireworks go off all the time, and on New Years Eve and the Fourth of July, they are so common the police simply give up.

Not last year, but the year before, somebody lost a hand. People lose hands, fingers, eyes. Burns and small fires are common. And of course, pets are frightened and run away.

We can't seem to stop the people who light the fireworks, but we can let our dogs hide in the garage or in the car. Better yet, in the car while it's in the garage. (Put Beethoven on the CD player, really loud.) Or we can take our pets and go visit the country.

AS for you-know-who, he was typing as 12:37 at night. After a Saturday night. What does that tell us?

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 01:27 AM

Guy Fawkes' signature, before and after torture.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 02:43 AM

"It's simple. I would rather hack off my dangly bits with a rusty machete than share my life with a dog"
I can think of a few human beings I feel that about - only a few though
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 03:53 AM

So Steve, not all that fond of dogs then?

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 04:44 AM

That's the way to do it... :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 08:04 AM

Good grief Backwoodsman, that was hair-raising! Any idea which country the chap was in? I can't imagine it was UK. He could have literally blown his face off!

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 10:31 AM

Sorry Sen, a buddy of mine shared it on FB but made no comment about where or when it was videoed. I reckon he was either very grave or very foolish!

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 01:43 PM

"It's simple. I would rather hack off my dangly bits with a rusty machete than share my life with a dog"

Check out what they did to Guy Fawkes…

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 02:33 PM

Looking at the tropical trees in the background Bwsm, it could be somewhere in Africa. And the chanting sounds a bit African too.

It's odd to think that terrorism with explosives existed even in 1605. But the torture of Fawkes was disgusting and unnecessary. However, in those times it was considered perfectly acceptable to inflict barbaric and agonising torture methods to extract information.

We visited the Tower of London a few years ago, and my husband was horrified at the rack and other cruel items to be seen there. Similar items are on show in the dungeons of Norwich Castle. We wondered about the type of men who were prepared to do this work for payment (ie executioners, rack turners, red-hot iron pincer appliers and so on) Horrible.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 03:23 PM

So you're a dog-lover then, John... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 07 Nov 18 - 01:28 PM

Someone mentioned N Ireland way back, and I mentioned Edinburgh Festival Fireworks. My brother-in-law is from NI and had never ever seen fireworks before we took him to the Festival Fireworks a few years back. Talk about a wee bairn (he's over 6ft tall) in a sweetie shop!

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Nov 18 - 01:40 PM

Senoufou/Eliza, the story that sticks in my mind
about the Tower of London
is the tourist family who had boys under the age of ten.
The boys were utterly fascinated with all the torture details,
and the tour guide was hard put to conceal his amusement --
"boys that age" and so on.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 Nov 18 - 02:30 PM

I've taken pupils of around eight years old to Norwich Castle many a time, and they were horrified at the cruel things that the guide showed them.
I reckon though that they were already in 'fear mode' as he'd turned off the lights to show what it was like for prisoners in the deepest dungeons. It always stayed dark for just a bit too long...

I often felt a little hand grope for mine and another one holding on to my coat before the lights went on again.

I wasn't feeling too chipper myself to be honest!

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: leeneia
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 01:26 AM

That's the kind of experience that convinces kids that deep down, adults are really nuts.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 08:46 AM

Incidentally, I'd have sympathy with Steve Shaw's feelings about dogs. A lot of people (not me, I say with a saintly smirk) bring up their dogs to be very dislikeable - pushy and unmannerly, even if it's expressed as waggishness. Anyone who takes on a dog should train it to be civil; it may have to look for another home, and it has a far lower chance if it's a pushy or unpleasant dog.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 09:01 AM

We've just got home from shopping, and there were a couple of gigantic dog turds on our drive, near the pavement. Some blasted dog owner hadn't bothered to clear up after their animal.
Husband fetched a shovel and some newspaper, and dealt with the mess.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 10:24 AM

The ones who really get me are those who DO pick up their dog mess in a plastic bag, but then leave the bag on the pavement, grass verge, or worse still, sling the bags up into trees, where they remain dangling from high branches. Just WHAT is that all about?
Would like to put a great big firework under people who do that!

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 10:49 AM

"But its only a small minority who let other dog-lovers down..."

No it bloody isn't. It's most dog-owners, who pick up the shit only when someone has seen them, and a healthy minority of those are the tree-slingers. I mean, who'd want to tote a fresh dog turd around for miles? Indeed, who'd want to feel the lovely, soft, smelly warmth of that turd through a thin plastic bag anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 10:57 AM

In my experience, most dog owners pick it up and dispose of it where there are bins. Where there aren't…

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 12:00 PM

Those are the ones you see, and who have seen you see. Watch the ones who haven't seen you see them. No picky-up!

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 12:05 PM

Well, I walked my dog for 17 years, and the number of times I was caught out without a bag would be under five; even then, if possible I went back with a bag and picked up later.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 12:41 PM

Dog owners in our village are usually excellent about picking up the poo. I wonder if someone's dog was roaming about unattended?

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 12:47 PM

You really must stop making these broad-brush, sweeping, unverifiable statements (which, by virtue of lack of proof, could easily be construed as hysterical lies), Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 06:41 PM

Well, I could go around the walks round here and take photos of the turds to show you, but I'd need a very large memory card and in any case I prefer to gaze heavenwards to view the clouds and the stars. There's an obvious risk in that, of course. After all, I wouldn't be watching out for cur turds.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 09:21 PM

dog do, really/I know it sounds disgusting, but its a thing you have to do,If you live with mans best friend you have to pick up poo!They come in different sizes, that's the poo's not the dogs,Thats why I chose a little pooch, I don't want to pick up logs! Now if my fury friend goes to toilet in the garden, I tend to get sense of joy, if I find a harden. Because picking up the soft ones is really quite a task, Especially if the lawn needs mowing, your bag fills up with grass! I like to try and keep my lawn, tidy, short and trim,
I can then spot poo's a mile off and get them bin. Autumn makes things tricky when the leaves fall to the ground. Its like playing spot the poo in the different shades of brown! Now if your doggy likes to run to do his poop in peace, Finding it to pick it up is frustrating to say the least. In the winters frosty air, its not so difficult as it seems, The poop will show you where it is, just look out for the steam. I get in quite a pickle if my dog poops in a place, Where other dogs have done their business, a dilemma I must face. Poop Identification, is it mines, or is it not, But I know if I get the right one, as I grab it, its still hot!

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 11:37 PM

Heh, Donuel!

Steve Shaw, it really sounds as if someone or some people is/are letting dogs out to roam.

If I had my way, people would have to have a licence to own a dog - yeah, I know they do, and no, I don't mean like that. I mean only people who had the proven civility to live in society should be able to apply for such a licence and be examined for it.

For instance, a few years ago I met a particularly lovely lurcher on our rather traffic-heavy street. I took her in and found that she had an ID tag, but the number on it rang out. In the morning I rang again - it was a city council number because she'd been a rescue dog. The council staff said they'd ring the owner.

So I waited, and after a while I got a call from a sleepy-sounding man who said he'd let his dog out to have a trot around the night before, and could I keep her for a few hours more because he'd come home on a long flight the night before and needed more sleep! I was to drop her around, rather than him collecting her. Or I could just let her out and she'd come back.

It must be 10 years since this happened and I'm still raging!

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Nov 18 - 02:33 AM

"Well, I could go around the walks round here and take photos of the turds to show you, but I'd need a very large memory card and in any case I prefer to gaze heavenwards to view the clouds and the stars. There's an obvious risk in that, of course. After all, I wouldn't be watching out for cur turds."

Yes, Steve, you're correct - **some** irresponsible owners don't clean up their dogs' shit, the evidence of that is there for all to see, and I deplore the anti-social attitude of those people just as much as you do. But there is no evidence of the number of owners who pick it up, because....they've picked it up!

So your broad-brush, unverifiable statement, "No it bloody isn't. It's most dog-owners, who pick up the shit only when someone has seen them, and a healthy minority of those are the tree-slingers." doesn't hold water and, if you don't understand that fact, you're really not much of a 'scientist' are you?

And as for, "I mean, who'd want to tote a fresh dog turd around for miles? Indeed, who'd want to feel the lovely, soft, smelly warmth of that turd through a thin plastic bag anyway?", the answer is, "Probably nobody, but we do it as a matter of social conscience". I certainly do, and so do the fairly wide circle of dog-owners I com into contact with - including when I'm out in the fields alone with my dog, because I know that dog-shit is poisonous to sheep, and pretty bad for wild-life in general.

Now, when you had your cat(s), how fastidious were you about following them around and recovering their shit from wherever they left it? Let me guess - not at all.

People, glasshouses, stones.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Nov 18 - 02:46 AM

Yeah, it's like the enraged drivers who point to empty bike lanes as they sit in traffic jams and say the emptiness proves they're unused. Nope, the emptiness proves that someone on a bike can whizz along and disappear while they're looking down at their phone to check Facebook!

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Nov 18 - 04:20 AM

Hahahaa! This thread should now have the title changed to 'Should Dogs Be Banned?' or perhaps 'Should Poo Be Banned?'

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 18 - 06:15 AM

Well I certainly find something a little imperialistic about dog-lovers wanting to ban other people's fun because it upsets their delicate pooches once a year. Man up, hounds!

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Nov 18 - 07:33 AM

I wonder why nobody complains when spoilt little madams on their posh-girl ponies ride blithely on after their Smelly mounts drop half-a-hundredweight of steaming shite on the footpaths i use. Now that's really something worth pissing and moaning about.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Nov 18 - 08:11 AM

We have a riding stables in our village, and any manure on the road gets gathered up immediately by residents for putting on the rhubarb or the roses.
(Couldn't imagine doing that with dog poo though)

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Nov 18 - 08:23 AM

Well I wish your residents resided where I reside, Sen - we Have a National Cycle Route near here, where I used to take my dog for long off-lead walks. But I gave up because of the huge quantities of horse-shite lying around, which my dog would invariably eat while I was otherwise occupied picking his turds up, and then he'd be sick. Talk about insult to injury! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Nov 18 - 08:35 AM

Ugh poo AND sick! That's awful Bwdm. Some dogs like rolling in horse manure don't they?

Our stables sell bagged-up 'well-rotted' manure for 50p a go at the gates of their establishment.

I've just mucked out our cats' litter tray (I do it every day) and I agree it must be very annoying if cat-owners let their cats deposit all that in their neighbours' gardens.

In our last house, the huge garden (half an acre) was great for our five cats to use, not to mention the set-aside field beyond, separated only by a shallow ditch. So I'd say no-one has ever been troubled by cat poo from our moggies.

It's our Wedding Anniversary on Sunday (Remembrance Day, so no excuse for His Nibs to forget eh?) and I'm tempted to have my revenge and set off a myriad fireworks for two solid hours. I could say it's in honour of the Armistice or something. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Mossback
Date: 13 Nov 18 - 10:34 AM

Interesting fact-


If you put all the American dogs, cats and other pets on their own island, they would rank fifth in global meat consumption, behind Russia, Brazil, the U.S. and China.

Without cutting the overconsumption of meat by pets ... it will be almost impossible to prevent global warming from passing the danger level of a 2 degrees Celsius temperature rise.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dogs-environment-cats-pets-food-meat_us_5be94743e4b0e84388999f40

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 18 - 12:52 AM

Just had an email from the government Petition Site regarding the outcome of a petition I signed to ban public sale of fireworks, and restrict firework use to licensed public displays only.

Obviously there are a lot of people who feel the same as I do - at least 100,000 of us - because the issue will be debated in the HoC on 26th November. I hold out very little hope of anything changing, but at least the issue has been put on MPs' radar. Sadly, I expect them to come up with the old "The majority of the public use fireworks sensibly and responsibly" chestnut, but they wouldn't say that if they had to endure the equivalent of the opening barrage of The Battle of The Somme for the best part of a fortnight every autumn.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 Nov 18 - 03:24 AM

Well done Bwdsm, I think you may be right though. There's money to be made selling fireworks, and the Government might be labelled 'Killjoys'.
Talking of loud bangs, on the ramparts of Edinburgh Castle they fire a very loud gun at 1pm every day. When I used to live there, I was once asked by an obviously tourist couple on Princes Street, "Excuse me, do you know what time they fire the one o'clock gun?" I dissolved into giggles...

Subject: RE: BS: Should Fireworks Be Banned?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 18 - 03:28 AM

I've stood by that gun (or as close as they allow the public, which is surprisingly close) as it was fired - one bang at a set time, once a day, seems very reasonable to me, and the touristas love it.

Damned if I can remember what time they fired it though! :-)