BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 08:59 AM

To get back on track!
'Stop reporting fake news!' BBC forced to apologise for 'editing' Brexiteer Newsnight clip

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1075950/Brexit-news-BBC-Newsnight-UK-Nadine-Dorries-Conservative-Party-latest

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 08:21 AM

Then let this be about the associated Brexit conundrums instead of searching for the one true villain amoung many.
Brexit has its own HBO movie staring Kumberbatch. Too bad the script writer didn't consult with you folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 07:53 AM

Karen, I think Jim will be the first to admit that his behaviour has left much to be desired at times. I also think that several of us are working to help Jim refrain from being reactive to the disgraceful provocation - the bile and vitriol, the name-calling, the deliberate attempts (often unfortunately successful) to 'press buttons', aimed at him and, to possibly a lesser extent, to others here - by his Nemesis.

I know that Jim is trying hard to improve his behaviour, as are the others I referred to, by refusing to react or respond to provocation - the only one who, as yet, seems unable to acknowledge his own part in all the trouble on the 'Brexit #2' thread is the aforementioned provocateur, whose single contribution to this thread so far is in precisely the same provocative vein as the vast majority of his posts on the closed thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 07:39 AM

Karen, we are actually trying very hard right now to sideline the real villain of the piece. Jim is now onside. If we ignore troll posts and talk about brexit, we may just manage to keep the topic alive. What's done is done. There is genuinely something important to talk about here.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: KarenH
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 07:25 AM

I am sorry, but for me Jim's conduct has had as much to do with wrecking the thread as anybody else's. If, and I say if, he is feeling proud of having done this, or feels that he has achieved some kind of victory, then I would just like to register a feeling that he is mistaken.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 06:29 AM

Parliament are never going to decide anything seriously without putting their own self-interests first, as partied, as individual investors (as many of them are, and as career politicians) - they never have and certainly aren't likely to now
They need to be made answerable to their responsibilities and their promises - until they are, the people need a voice in what happens to their lives and their communities
Five years of promises that will not be honoured is as far from democracy as is Parliamentary dictatorship
On issues of national importance I can't see any alternative other than referenda
Sorry - 'Mary Queen of Scots' calls - see y'all tomorrow
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 06:17 AM

She's deluded.

Nothing to either agree or disagree with me about, Jim. Whilst I am opposed to referendums, because they dress up complex issues as simple binary decisions to be put before an uninformed public, I've said more than once that there may be no other way out of this mess.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 06:11 AM

Like Steve, I've been against another referendum (I dislike referendums as a matter of principle - they seem to me to be a cowardly cop-out by the very people we have elected to very well-paid positions of responsibility for making these decisions on our behalf. As the saying goes, you don't keep a dog and bark yourself.

But I'm coming round to thinking that, with May's intransigence, the government's paralysis, and the unwillingness of many MPs to do what they know in their hearts is best for the country as a whole, a 'second referendum' is probably the best route to take.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 06:07 AM

Good news about brexit

On balance I think there is more bad than good but in the interests of fairness I think this piece should be included. Even if it is by the co-editor of "The Conservative Woman" :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 06:02 AM

"We can stop him if we try."
Can we not make this about him please
While we respond to him we become part of it, as a mod has just pointed out to me - now the Mods have been made fully aware of hat e is, he can't continue as he has for much longer anyway
Ignore him - all of us, if we want this thread (and BS section) to survive

Onward and upward to Brexit - or hopefully to kicking it into touch
I don't agree with you about referendums Steve - they've changed Irish Society for the better and there's no reason they can't do the same for Britain if they are presented properly and not used as Populist maneuvering   
It seems to me that the only answer to the present fiasco is to put the vote to the people again - now the clownish behaviour of the establishment and the revelations as to what leaving Europe will bring will at last give the electorate some idea of what they are voting for rather than the unfulfillable promises that brought about this mess in the first place
It has to be done by open debate, not within the Parliamentary greenhouse - I'd love to see Posh-Boy Moggie face to face with the articulate debater Corbyn seems to be becoming - I know who my money would be on
If, after all this, a majority ('bout time PR was considered for eections) still want to leave there's not much you can do about it
I have little doubt the people will sort it out anyway when things do go radically wrong - with a great deal of added hardship to the have-nots who have to pick up the tab, of course

Parliamentary debate has become little more than meaningless words shouted over a constant noise from a herd of bleating sheep
Let's see the the thing thrashed out openly by articulate people and for Christ's sake, let someone point out the inhumanity of using refugees from wars and poverty Britain has helped and even facilitated, as political pawns
It's about time Britain's situation in all this was dealt with holistically rather than a series of separate issues
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 05:11 AM

Jim, we have been trying to police ourselves in recent days. We can stop him if we try.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 05:10 AM

In fairness, most of us have played some part in closing it - some more than others
This will continue to happen until we start to police ourselves and control our own behaviour as well as dealing with the real gluggers

I read this morning that forty-plus Tory MPs have threatened to resign if they (the House of Common members) aren't given the final say on Brexit
Jim

Subject: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 05:01 AM

The closure of the thread feels like collective punishment. Latterly, most of us have been stridently trying to resist the inanities of the one idiot who has been messing up the thread by sidelining him. Contrary to what the closer of the thread seemed to be claiming, discussion of this topic has far from run its course and things are set to move on dramatically quickly in the next few weeks. It's actually history in the making, no exaggeration, and we should be able to talk about it. Thank you.