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Wasn't this about music?
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Subject: Wasn't this about music? From: Lenny Date: 28 Dec 99 - 10:33 PM I don't mean any disrespect to the people here but has the mudcat cafe completely changed it's focus? I've had limited access to a computer so I haven't spent much time looking in here but there used to be a lot of people talking about blues and folk music. I know there were arguments about it getting too chatty and a lot of people left, but it was still pretty heavy on music. So many of the threads now are about peoples religious beliefs and personal philosophies. Even people thanking St Jude?! It looks to me like some people are splitting into twos in order to answer themself. Are Kat Laughing and Banjo Bonnie the same person? It looks like there's only about a dozen people left who are really interested in real folk and blues. I don't have a right to complain and I'm not trying to be rude but I'm really curious. What happened to mudcat cafe? |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: gillymor Date: 28 Dec 99 - 10:45 PM Quick, somebody 911 Gargoyle Hunter. |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Barry Finn Date: 28 Dec 99 - 10:52 PM Don't get to upset, we go throught this quite often. Some respond to non music topics (is this one?) & others respond (like myself) mostly to music related threads but there is enough room here for it all. When I came onboard, around 3 yrs ago there was more music related threads but a whole lot less people. After some time you'll notice that alot of threads get repeated, mostly the music threads & not the BS threads. Some of the BS & other threads I find somewhat interesting & informational but I don't follow them that closely so I stick to responding to what I prefere (like here?), which is mostly music related, pick & choose & let the rest, if you want, to pass on by. If you're not here to often then there's gotta be a huge backlog you could dig up. Barry |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: catspaw49 Date: 28 Dec 99 - 11:07 PM What Barry said. And additionally, this is the holidays and I think the BS has increased some this time of year (as it did last year) and that's to be expected. And trust me, I didn't "get" the St. Jude thing either. The community here has changed but music brought us together and its still a focal point for most of us, even the inveterate BSer's like myself. Spaw - (who's hoping we don't go thru another "boilerplate" siege like last January. |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Jon Freeman Date: 28 Dec 99 - 11:14 PM Lenny, I am inclined to agree with Barry Finn and certainly don't want to get involved in yet another round over BS. I think that you will find that most (if not all) of the people that contribute to the BS threads also have a genuine interset in folk or blues music and do make contributions to the music related threads as well. Regarding the 2 people you named, I can also assure you that I have had several personal exchanges with KatLaughing, not idle chat but swapping folk songs and tunes and as far as I am aware, BanjoBonnie is taking lessons from Rick Fielding... neither of which seem to be actions of people who have no interest in musical topics. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: InOBU Date: 28 Dec 99 - 11:14 PM Folk music is about the concerns of THE PEOPLE! so, the fact that there is a lot of discussion of the concerns of the people, often informs the music. Contrary to what many Americans now think, music is not just entertainment, it is education. SOngs about mine workers, sailors, soldiers of the peoples struggles, didnt just get made up, they were germanated by people involved in and working in their class interests. I wish I could cite a good song on this subject... maybe we have served you all for a thousand years? All the best Larry |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: MMario Date: 28 Dec 99 - 11:16 PM there's 40 obviously music threads up at the moment, and more with music inside somewhere....a lot of the BS threads do drift in and out of music related topics. I would say the biggest change is that the MudCat has evolved from a music oriented RESOURCE into a music oriented COMMUNITY. Not necessarily a good thing, but not necessarily a bad thing either. I personaly prefer my information with a dash of humanity. |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: catspaw49 Date: 28 Dec 99 - 11:18 PM Your laryngitis hasn't affected your "voice"....well stroked Mario...and a hats off to you to Jon. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Barry Finn Date: 28 Dec 99 - 11:22 PM Hey InOBU, "Contrary to what many Americans now think, music is not just entertainment, it is education". Contrary to what you may think, that was a gross generalization. Not to get anything going here, just a friendly tug on your boot straps. Barry |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: katlaughing Date: 28 Dec 99 - 11:39 PM Thanks, Jon. Lenny, if BB and I were the same person, I would find it difficult, at best, to be in Toronto with lessons with Rick, while also being home on the range in Wyoming. One does grow weary of the constancy of this debate. Well said, MMario. katlaughingironically |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Rick Fielding Date: 29 Dec 99 - 12:15 AM Lenny. I can assure you that if Kat and BB were one and the same they must use some form of astral travelling. I think it takes Banjo Bonnie about a half hour to get to her lesson, perhaps if the Concorde made stops in Wyoming on it's way to Toronto I'd get to see them both in the same room! For the better part of a year I would occasionally jump into the "BS or no BS" threads firmly on the side of "music PLUS discussions" about politics, ideas, and folks' takes on comtemporary events. Duckboots and I both found much of the writing to be far superior to that which we found in our newspaper each morning. A lot of the humour was razor sharp, and I can remember times that I laughed all day because of someone's post. I'm sorry that the first person to respond to you thinks you must be "Gargoyle", because you seem to prefer the "old Mudcat". (if you don't know who I'm talking about..don't worry, you're better off!) I truly hope there's still room for disagreement here.(without GG's predictable nastiness) I've gotten to know the above posters, and I can tell you they are VERY interested in music. Perhaps some, not in as academic a way as some of the folks who've left, but stick around for a while (if you're permanently computerized) and check the strictly music threads. You'll see lots of technical info from these and most of the others. I LIVE for folk music...and I'm often involved in the "Guitar, banjo, mandolin, American old tyme, chords, flatpicking etc. etc. threads. If you're a picker...check those out. I've had to do some re-focusing, but change is inevitable, and it's still a great place here. Rick Fielding |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Chet W. Date: 29 Dec 99 - 12:29 AM It's time I revealed a terrible secret... No, I guess that can wait. Chet |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 29 Dec 99 - 12:44 AM Chet? Are you....ok? Yeah? Well then SPILL the BEANS,Bucko! And oh yeah, regarding the "music verses bullshit" ongoing debate, I stand firmly in both camps while straddling the fence. LEJ- metaphor mangler |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Date: 29 Dec 99 - 12:47 AM Lenny, you should have seen the place BEFORE the holidays, Mudcat, was so twisted even the old-timers were asking your same identical question. Then some people left on vacation for a few weeks, the threads returned to normal. Those people are back and now it is spinning off in LA LA Land again.
If it is not about music why post the @##$$%&^???? |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Dec 99 - 01:02 AM Gee anon, I'm so sorry to have come back...but I prefer the company of most of the above posters than I do the company of thoses living in the "Land of the Ball-less Anonymouse Turds." Just my preference. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 29 Dec 99 - 01:04 AM Anonymous, I've got a suspicion that it's the Gang of Twelve stirring up trouble again. |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Jon Freeman Date: 29 Dec 99 - 01:08 AM Lenny, I wasn't around in the "old day's". Perhaps you can put me right on this: Were anonymous posters deliberately making inflammitory comments part of that scene or is this a new experience that we are all having to suffer? Jon |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: lloyd61 Date: 29 Dec 99 - 01:10 AM Lenny Your right. I'm Convinced that Katlaughing, BB, Frankee, Barry Finn, catspaw49, Jon Freeman, InOBU, and MMario are all the same person. Kat has been pulling our leg all along, and I don't mind. I kind of like Kat pulling my leg. |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Chet W. Date: 29 Dec 99 - 01:21 AM If I revealed this secret at this particular time, we would all have to be picked up and held in a secure facility to keep it from getting out. I'm not saying that it wouldn't get out of hand either. How about piped-in new-age music? How about being forced into a bathtub full of peeled grapes? How about having to lie on soft cushions? Please consider carefully before you decide if you want to know that I am also.....damn, almost let it slip out! Consider carefully, Chet |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Dec 99 - 01:24 AM Strom Thurmond? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: bseed(charleskratz) Date: 29 Dec 99 - 04:30 AM No, Spaw. He's the real Banjo Bonnie. Have you ever seen the two of them in the same room? --seed |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Banjer Date: 29 Dec 99 - 06:01 AM Well, here we go again.....My first thought would be if you don't want to read BS, don't! By pass it. If you don't want to read anything, BS, music or other, it is your right not to! But then the little voice inside of me speaks up and reminds me that I should be nice...offer an explanation of sorts, etc. For anyone that understands (and I suspect that those who constantly harp on 'Why have BS' DO NOT understand), folk music is the music of the people. Many of the subjects in the BS threads can be related to a song somewhere. Conversely, many songs that we love can be compared to the BS threads. A relation can be found either way. Therefor I maintain that what some intolerant folks call Bullshit, is actually the basis of some future songs that may go down in history no less than the music we already enjoy today. Some brief examples that come readily to mind are Tom Dooley, based on the true story of Tom Dula, The Reuben James, Sink the Bismark, Battle of New Orleans....and the list goes on. Also consider all the folk tunes from the sixties, the songs about the Viet Nam experience, poverty, and other human experiences of the period. If the Mudcat had existed back then, just think of all the BS threads that would have evolved. What discussion would we have had if the computers were around when Rosa Parks got on the bus? What BS would there have been on your screen if folks in the 1860's had access? Can you picture a Catspaw and a BSeed arguing about issues, (non music related, of course) that would later lead to all the songs we have from the Civil War era? We NEED BS to keep the music alive!! I shall now put my soapbox away....Thank you! |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Dec 99 - 07:07 AM And then again, let's just give you the "Soapbox Award" for a efforts above and beyond the call. Your point about computers in days now past is excellent and I don't recall anyone ever making it in that way before. Really food for thought Banj. You may be a 4-star "General F****P but you have distinguished yourself and deserve another star. You're still an IDA, but that's life...and I am proud to call you my friend. I would suggest to Lenny that you also check out the tunes written by Alice's son Ryan, the Mudcat Songbook, and the thread entitled "A Mother's Kiss"....all currently running, and I think you'll find the music carries on. Okay Seed, maybe Chet's not Strom Thurmond...maybe he's Myrtle Beach. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: InOBU Date: 29 Dec 99 - 08:26 AM Gee, if we are all the same person, are we scitzophrenic? Can one of us spell, should we be a one person band? Must we all live in the same place? Must I move to Toronto, Bonnie move to New York? Or is it just that everyone who does not think in the same patern of you must be the same person, kind of like the old Russia is a Grey and souless place - filled with cold eyed automatron communists before the criminocracy we brought about by winning the cold war made it possible for the one russian to devide into all thouse different people? Maybe this calls for a song?
Its moring in America and you can be your best |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: kendall Date: 29 Dec 99 - 08:46 AM The other day, I posted a message that I was going to be gone for two months. I did that so spaw wouldn't worry..I never expected so many of you to comment because it was just an offhand comment. As a result, I have been invited to places along the way where music lives. There will be a gathering of 'catters, and there will be music. This is how the music and the BS combine. Sometimes its like the Gordian knot..impossible to untangle. Now, if I were interested ONLY in discussing music, I would go to Juliard and lock the door to keep the REAL people out. Anyway, Lenny, I hope you stick around, the 'catters made a believer out of me It's a three dimensional world..check it out. |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: MMario Date: 29 Dec 99 - 08:52 AM waitaminute! THREE dimensions? Which one am I missing? I know I'm only two-dimensional...I get told that all the time... Dang, three? are you sure? |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Dec 99 - 09:26 AM Wait a minute...I have it now!!! Chet's not Strom or Bonnie or Myrtle......He's the reincarnation of P.G.T. Beauregard come back as the rappper Boom Shooty Bang!!! I knew I'd get it!!!!!! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Mbo Date: 29 Dec 99 - 10:10 AM What's wrong with St. Jude???! --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: MMario Date: 29 Dec 99 - 10:18 AM nothing's wrong with St. Jude....it's just a little strange to see it posted, especially since if you check history on the poster there is nothing else posted under that id. But I never could understand a rite/ritual that required one to publish thanks....my theory is that if a Saint can't figure out you are grateful without publication, then they aren't much of a Saint. |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Dec 99 - 10:23 AM You've been huffing on that chanter again haven't you Meebo? Check out the Tabor pipe in the auction. (The reference was to a somewhat bizarre post in a healing thread.) Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Mbo Date: 29 Dec 99 - 10:26 AM Well, then, Mario & 'Spaw, I'll have you know the post was from my sister. Need I say more? --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Dec 99 - 10:34 AM I don't know...do you? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Art Thieme Date: 29 Dec 99 - 10:50 AM I have been here less than before BECAUSE there is less talk about music and too much (in the balance) B.S. I don't mean to offend either. (Kat, I love ya.) It's simply my preference. On occasion I join the B.S.---like now---or when I have a musical point to make within a B.S. thread---or if I think something I've experienced in the past might be an interesting musical aside.I still check in once a day or so. It's still fun even if not as scholarly as I might prefer. I do know that many valuable opinions and serious folk minds do not show up here lately. I can only suspect that they too are saddened by what they find here. Frank's not here. Sandy is here less. Sam usually adds his extrmely valuable points of view to 'rec. music folk' where, in my opinion, it's pearls before ..... ---Oh, nevermind. Art |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Date: 29 Dec 99 - 10:52 AM Well, I don't mind the BS threads since I rarely look at them, but I wonder if they are the ones contributing the problem of searches in the text, versus searching the Subject field. Is there any way that the BS threads DON'T go into the archival storage, but disappear after a couple of months? |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Chet W. Date: 29 Dec 99 - 11:05 AM What if all these postings, except maybe your own, were being generated by a supercomputer somewhere in Washington? Artificial intelligence. It makes a kind of sense. Chet |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Bert Date: 29 Dec 99 - 11:11 AM I don't mean any disrespect to the people here, BUT. The thing that puzzles me is, with all these people claiming they want more talk about music, - why don't they? Go ahead, this is not a moderated forum. Talk all you want about music, we all love the stuff. |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Pete Peterson Date: 29 Dec 99 - 11:35 AM ANother organization to which I belong says "If you don't want it, you can't have any." There seems a simple solution to thsoe who wish less BS. Virginia Satir said the same thing differently "what you feed, grows. What you don't feed withers and dies." As usual, other people have said this better than i could say it myself (which is why I am not a singer-songwriter & instead love the old time songs of Poole and the Carter Fam ETC) |
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Subject: Ok- for music, let's begin From: Redharbour Date: 29 Dec 99 - 11:44 AM Dave Van Ronk's version of "Song of The Wandering Angus". Does anyone know how to play this? |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Date: 29 Dec 99 - 11:47 AM Or has anyone heard it? |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: T. in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) Date: 29 Dec 99 - 11:55 AM Isn't this about music ? Isn't this about music ? Sure this is about music 'cause music is about everything.
Whom do you love ?
What about molecular quantum mechanics ? T. |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Mbo Date: 29 Dec 99 - 11:55 AM I love traditional music, Lenny, especially Celtic, and though I participate in BS/OS threads, I've never really started any BS/OS threads myself. And if you read some of my posts, you will find more often than not, I drift into some sort of traditional music reference, though some may not catch it. We're a big family here, and sometime we like to have more fun than sitting around analyzing the Child Ballads and disputing their numbers, or discussing minute lyrics changes of folk songs in various parts of the country or world. I know I'm here for music, though all of my musical tastes are not covered here (and frequently looked down upon) but I like to have a little fun with friends too. I don't have any friends in REAL life! So lighten up and enjoy the fun, tell us about music you like! "We are united here within these ancient wheels We are united in the spirit of the music at our heels; On reflection, we rebuild and we restore-- We are as Mother Nature's children As we dance across the floor. All together, all as one All together, relentlessly we're dancing on..." --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Blackcat2 Date: 29 Dec 99 - 12:00 PM I've only been here for w few months but what I've seen is that every time I post a request for something music related, i get plenty of responses - mostly helpful. When I posted requesting info about the Wren Boys - that wasn't strictly music, but folk music by it's very nature is connected to all the other things folks do. I agree with Bert - those who think there's not enough music being discussed - start some threads or revive old ones you find interesting. I cannot understand how people can complain there are "too many" BS threads when it's easy to ignore them. Plus - do you think the people who are posting BS treads on occasion would automatically start posting music threads instead if someone asked them to? I've been following the Bobby sands thread with a great deal of interest and am looking into the songs mentioned about him - something I wouldn't have done if that thread didn't start. pax yall |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Willie-O Date: 29 Dec 99 - 12:14 PM LEJ, that straddling must be hard on the family jewels... Rick, the necessity of astral travelling is a pretty weak reason for BB and Kat being different persons, since I'm pretty sure both of them can do it. (Although I hear they've tightened up security checks on the astral planes this week). I used to be deeply skeptical about the whole concept of virtual communities (or virtual anything). My theory FWIW is that there is no such thing, actually...but that this is a real community, consisting of a galaxy of folks that know each other, either face-to-face, electronically or both in various locations, and across various time zones. Maybe that is how it was intended, maybe not, and maybe that doesn't matter (Max?). We're all interested in folk/roots music, but that's not sum total of our existance. Every mill needs grist, that's my spin on it, I may be all wet but anyway time to lumber back to the old grind. Stop me. Please Willie-O |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: JedMarum Date: 29 Dec 99 - 12:26 PM I am a fairly new guy to the Mudcat forum, so I don't know how this place has changed focus, as is claimed. It seems to me that most discussion here revolves around music, and that is still my primary interest. But I must say I like hearing other people's points-of-view on political or social issues, even if I don't participate, I usually browse all the threads. But there is one comment I need to make, and maybe being a 'fairly new guy' here makes this observation all the more appropriate. I have posted several requests for info on folk songs, and it seems to me every one has been answered, at least in part, with a "we've already discussed this song, check out this thread here." And sure enough, when I check out those threads, I usually find some interesting discussion, and sometimes additional discussion occurs within the new thread. My point here is that it occurs to me, we have reached a level of saturation on the commmon music topics. Many of the music topics that attract people to the forum have been intelligently and completely discussed. Surely there is room here for BS. |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Steve Latimer Date: 29 Dec 99 - 12:26 PM Like all of us, I came here for the music and have been greatly enriched by the wealth of musical knowledge that resides here. I have participated in my share of BS threads and find that there are many people here who share the same warped sense of humour that I do. But a Bobby Sands thread at the Mudcat offends me. I have definate views about Ireland, my father being from there, my Grandfather having fought in the uprising, my great Uncle haveing been hauled out of his house and shot in front of his family (I'm not saying which side), but I feel that Mudcat is no place to discuss politics or Religion. Sure, there has been a lot of great music celebrating war, Rebels, Outlaws, etc. counterbalanced by the protest songs that more or less created the folk music of the 50's and 60's, and I believe that they and the people who performed them have a place here, but If you want to have political or religious discussions go to the appropriate sites. |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Jeri Date: 29 Dec 99 - 12:54 PM Yay, Bert. It seems ironic to me that the folks who seem to complain the most about BS rarely start any threads themselves, and yet spend quite a bit of time writing about what they want others to talk about. I don't read many of the BS threads these days, and there does seem to be a lot of them. I don't have a problem with their existance, though, which is a good thing, because I happily have no control over what others post. For those who don't think there aren't enough threads about music - start some. It might do a bit more good than re-hashing this discussion. Sort of reminds me of a session -
Ignatz: "How come we don't play very many waltzes?" |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: TerriM Date: 29 Dec 99 - 01:22 PM As a relative newcomer here, I really have to add that I have found lots of the BS threads absorbing. One of the things that attracted me to folk music in the first place was the classless and eclectic bunch of people one invariably found in folk clubs. I can think of no other musical sphere which attracts such a group of non-judgemental, warm and humourous people and this shows clearly in the BS threads. Surely where one makes music, one should bring to it all facets of your own values, experience and personality and if those facets show up more clearly in the BS threads, isn't that to be expected and welcomed? |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Blackcat2 Date: 29 Dec 99 - 01:37 PM Steve, I could say that I'm offended about you having the attitude that a Bobby Sands or any political or religious discussion on mudcat offends you, but then that would be allowing something bother me that does not need to. Here's a tip to all: When you look at the titles of the threads, IGNORE all the ones that bother you, or confuse you, or that you are just not interested in. My goodness! How hard is that? What ever happened to tolerance? The Mudcat seems to be founded on the concept that as long as people aren't directly attacking other people, their opinions are allowed. To visit and look around at Mudcat is not forcing you to read the opinions of people on subjects that you are not interested in. pax yall - Great thread! |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: Willie-O Date: 29 Dec 99 - 01:53 PM It's just a rather friendly microcosm of the net in general--where you find out life's way to short to spend it trying to correct other people's thinking! W-O |
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Subject: RE: Wasn't this about music? From: selby Date: 29 Dec 99 - 02:04 PM In about 1 hour I will be setting off for my local session where over the evening I will play music talk about music talk about christmas the millenium sombodys new car sombodys etc etc etc etc is not that what folkies do with their friends Keith |
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