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BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon

Donuel 12 Apr 19 - 05:33 AM
Donuel 12 Apr 19 - 07:02 AM
Donuel 12 Apr 19 - 09:24 AM
Donuel 12 Apr 19 - 09:29 AM
Mr Red 12 Apr 19 - 03:50 PM
Donuel 12 Apr 19 - 04:15 PM
Joe Offer 13 Apr 19 - 04:19 PM
Jack Campin 13 Apr 19 - 04:24 PM
Joe Offer 13 Apr 19 - 05:05 PM
bobad 13 Apr 19 - 05:42 PM
Rapparee 13 Apr 19 - 09:58 PM
Joe Offer 14 Apr 19 - 01:23 AM
Big Al Whittle 14 Apr 19 - 06:23 AM
Donuel 14 Apr 19 - 08:05 AM
Donuel 14 Apr 19 - 08:18 AM
Mossback 14 Apr 19 - 05:54 PM
michaelr 14 Apr 19 - 06:35 PM
Donuel 14 Apr 19 - 06:40 PM
Donuel 14 Apr 19 - 06:44 PM
Donuel 15 Apr 19 - 07:16 AM
Joe Offer 16 Apr 19 - 12:08 AM
Donuel 16 Apr 19 - 07:14 AM
Mossback 16 Apr 19 - 10:14 AM
Joe Offer 16 Apr 19 - 03:22 PM
Mossback 16 Apr 19 - 04:02 PM
Donuel 16 Apr 19 - 04:03 PM
Joe Offer 16 Apr 19 - 05:22 PM

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Subject: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 05:33 AM

From his 800 room hilltop monastery 2 hours from Rome Steve Bannon is aiming to bring Pope Francis down for pedophilia, lax policies on gays and race as well as a laundry list of crimes defined by the Trump agenda. When asked why, Steve says "because nobody else is reforming The Catholic church".


The Monastery is leased for 20 years and will become the theological university for the Reformed Catholic Church


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 07:02 AM

This is a page from Hitler's handbook when he embedded Nazi operatives in the CC.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 09:24 AM

April 12, 2019, 5:01 AM EDT / Updated April 12, 2019, 9:07 AM EDT
By Richard Engel and Kennett Werner
VATICAN CITY — Strolling through St. Peter’s Square, the heart of the Roman Catholic Church, Steve Bannon surveyed the enemy camp.

The populist political consultant has a new target in his crusade against “globalism” — Pope Francis.

“He’s the administrator of the church, and he’s also a politician,” said Bannon, a former adviser to President Donald Trump. “This is the problem. ... He’s constantly putting all the faults in the world on the populist nationalist movement.”

More on 'NBC Nightly News with Lester Holt' tonight at 6:30 p.m. ET

Since becoming pope in 2013, Francis has expressed a consistent message on the type of “America First” nationalism championed by Bannon.

Two years ago, the pope cautioned against growing populism in Europe, warning it could lead to the election of leaders like Hitler.

He has called for compassion toward migrants, saying that fearing them "makes us crazy," as well as other marginalized groups including the poor and gay people. He has also defended diversity.

Bannon alleges that Francis has mismanaged numerous sex abuse scandals roiling the church, and says the pope is not treating the issue seriously enough.


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/steve-bannon-u-s-ultra-conservatives-take-aim-pope-francis-n991411


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 09:29 AM

Where is Tom Hanks when you need him :^/


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 03:50 PM

making another biopic?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 04:15 PM

The world needs to learn that the Vatican was the first fundamental step to form the first International Criminal Court based on justice and law - instead of war and death. Clinton signed the treaty to join the ICC but W Bush reversed it immediately. Ironicly W considered the USA to be infallible.

So now we have the Hague to insure justice but without the US, North Korea, Russia, Pakistan, Arab States. China says it would sign the ICC treaty if the US did.

The single figure who has brought the International Criminal Court this far is Benjamin Frencz, the original little jewish 27 year old prosecutor in the Nuremburg trial.

This must IRK the sonofabitch Nazi Steve Bannon to his rotten core.


This is not a religious thread


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Apr 19 - 04:19 PM

What scares me about these Trump people, is that they are all so thoroughly convinced of their own righteousness. I'm sure Steve Bannon is one of many Catholics who thinks himself more Catholic than the Pope. These people tend to follow Cardinal Burke, who thinks the Pope is a heretic. They seem convinced that power and authority are far more important than loving one's neighbor.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Apr 19 - 04:24 PM

Seen Francis's recent comments on the events of 1968? He seems to be going off his trolley.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Apr 19 - 05:05 PM

Nope. What did Francis say about 1968?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: bobad
Date: 13 Apr 19 - 05:42 PM

I think he means Benedict.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Apr 19 - 09:58 PM

Benedict, not Francis. I think Benedict IS off his trolley...and the trolley isn't even on the rails.

I wonder, wonder, wonder what would happen to folks like S. Bannon if the Pope, a duly elected theocrat, head of the Roman Catholic Church, Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Sovereign of the State of the Vatican City, Servant of the Servants of God, Patriarch of the West, and Vicar of the Apostolic See, would make an ex cathedra statement that the poor, the dispossessed, the marginalized, must be cared for as we must care for the Earth and as we would want to be cared for.

If the Pope speaks ex cathedra he speaks with the infallibility given him by Vatican I. Ain't no arguing. It's the Law of the Church. Like it or leave.

Me, I would have done it long ago, right after I cleaned up the Curia. Lots of those Old Men need a pastoral stint in, say, Namibia or the Sudan or Tonga. And "Old" doesn't refer the chronological age.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 01:23 AM

Well, Rap, most of the Popes have been teaching just that as the official body of doctrine known as Catholic Social Teaching since the 1878 election of Leo XIII. Since then, the Popes have issued encyclicals expressing the "preferential option for the poor," support of organized labor, a near-total pacifism, refuge for immigrants, condemnation of capital punishment, and other doctrines that make the rich and powerful quite uncomfortable.

I'm quite proud of Catholic teaching on social justice and support of the poor and refugees. Now, if they could just get their message straight on the "pelvic" issues: sexual abuse, marriage and divorce, LGBT issues, abortion, and birth control. I pretty-much ignore Catholic teaching on the pelvic issues, but they really do a good job on social justice matters.

Using encyclicals and council and synod documents, is the ordinary way of promulgating official teaching of the Catholic Church. The Doctrine of Infallibility (defined in 1870, but invoked in 1854 and 1950) was kind of a desperate power grab by Pius IX after he lost control of the Papal States. Infallibility is viewed with some embarrassment in Catholic intellectual circles, so use of it is a rarity (only one official use since it was defined). Some contend that John Paul II's refusal to ordain women priests is infallible. I don't.

But yeah, I think my church does a pretty good job on social justice issues. And hey, they give me grants to promote the rights of immigrants, the homeless, and people who are incarcerated. We used Catholic money to do a community forum last week on immigration. Since I was the only Anglo male on the team, I was the designated bouncer, and I had to eject a white supremacist who tried to "crash" our forum. It was interesting, to say the least. And I thought I was going to have a heart attack after it was over.

As for Benedict, I like him and I think he often has wise things to say, but this most recent statement was ill-advised and will be milked by right-wing forces of Bannon and Burke and their ilk.

-Joe-

Steve Bannon ‘told Italy’s populist leader: Pope Francis is the enemy’



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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 06:23 AM

I find the thought of that black hole, a mere 57 million light years away very reassuring.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 08:05 AM

In the Bannon universe any and all forms of Social Justice are the enemy.

His modus Operedi is diabolical. He takes existing groups and usurps their reason to be as his own. He has done this in the war gaming world, the Conspiracy internet world, the Trump world, the Q world, the bigot world and the White Suprmacists. Now he will attempt to use the Catholic Church haters to be the new reformers of the Catholic Church to do his bidding.

This a lot to chew on yet he is attemping a 20 year plan to promote his bizarre world fascist coup.

No this is not a 007 script plot


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 08:18 AM

"every killer has his own special modus operandi"
Bannon will use xenophobia to his advantage but anti Semitism is his personal raison d'etre.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Mossback
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 05:54 PM

body of doctrine known as Catholic Social Teaching since the 1878 election of Leo XIII.

Actually, that began, fitfully, with the Revum Novarum of 1891, not in 1878 and that was more down to Cardinal Manning than Leo XIII. That encyclical also had some damned nasty things to say about socialism and socialists.

If up to Leo, the Kingdom of Italy would never have been recognized, and political liberalism, democracy, science and technology (the use of electric lights included) would have remained condemned.

a near-total pacifism

Funny, I don't recall the Pope coming out against the Viet Nam War, as the Berrigans could attest.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: michaelr
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 06:35 PM

Benedict (Ratzinger) is a right-wing fossil who should not be listened to by anyone. To come out with a public statement like that strikes me as an amazing breach of protocol and an undermining of his boss, the actual pope. As for Bannon, I have no words to describe my disgust for that piece of slime.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 06:40 PM

This not a religious thread. The Church may not be in control of its endocrine system but it did lay the foundations of an International Criminal Court. This was a good thing.

Fighting Fascism is a good thing.

Bannon is insideous.

Joe I know you forgive certain fascists like Lindburg.
I will always be on the opposite side of that wall but giving the recent Vatican credit where credit is due is easy to do.

On July 17th 1998 the UN General assembly held a conference in Rome for the establishment of the Interntional Criminal Court. It was attended by 161 member states. The Vatican supported the conference in word and deed.

To convince President Clinton an unlikely hero McNamara wrote an op ed to the Washington Post along with Ben Frencz who has unimpeachable credentials. Clinton signed the treaty the next day.

Bush declared the US will not be a signatory for the ICC killing US membership to the ICC. The same goes for Isreal and Indonesia along with BRIC. As a result we still have legal genocide by the non participants.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 06:44 PM

I defer to Joe's scholarship to elucidate the Vatican support of the ICC in word and deed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 07:16 AM

https://www.pgaction.org/campaigns/rome-statute/europe/vatican-city.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 12:08 AM

Donuel, I do not forgive certain fascists like Lindbergh, but I do spell his name correctly. And I do have great admiration for his wife Anne Morrow Lindbergh.

Someone responded to me privately about what I said about the Doctrine of Infallibility. Here's how I responded:
    The current thinking among theologians is that infallibility was far more infallible before Pius IX claimed it. As always, people have more credibility when they make statements in a credible manner and provide evidence to back up their positions. The Catholic Church has a long tradition of doing just that, and then along comes Pius IX and claims infallibility "because I said so." He lost a lot of credibility for the Church in the process.


Mossback, lacking in scholarship as usual, says that Catholic Social Teaching didn't begin until the 1891 Leo XIII encyclical Rerum Novarum. I wonder how he's so sure that Leo didn't have a thought until he published an encyclical.... There is no exact date - it was a matter of evolution.

As for wondering whether Popes had anything to say about the Vietnam War, Mossback forgets the address of Paul VI to the United Nations. Once again, Mossback's certitude is distressing.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 07:14 AM

If I had a birthmark on my face Joe, I feel you would bring it up at every opportunity. But it is true I have been going without spell check for the last couple months. For a dyslexic that is an accomplishment and not a disgrace. Get over your superior self and maybe you will be.

Indeed Charlie's wife wanted to get the hell away from the 3rd Reich leaders, even after being gifted with a lovely house in Germany.


Will the Pope get any milage by calling Bannon a heretic?
It might end up giving Steve creedance


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Mossback
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 10:14 AM

I wonder how he's so sure that Leo didn't have a thought until he published an encyclical

Conversely, I wonder how you're so arrogantly sure that he did, Joe, if you care to explore "distressing certitude". And why do you ignore the role of Cardinal Manning?

Besides, I believe what was under discussion was what Leo actually DID and SAID, not what Leo THOUGHT. Catholic social teaching & doing, rather.

There is no exact date - it was a matter of evolution.

You're the one that proposed an exact date to begin with, Joe.

I didn't forget the UN speech at all, Joe. That was in 1965 - and Paul didn't say or do s**t after that. Casualties up to Oct. 1965 ca. 170,000, and after ca. 1.5 million. Good old Paul- What a guy!

And now, following your gratuitous insults and personal attacks, we return to our regularly scheduled program:


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 03:22 PM

In their efforts to prove me wrong instead of carrying on a discussion, both Donuel and Mossback focused on scoring trivial points and ignored the message I was trying to convey (i.e., that I have never excused Lindbergh's fascism, and that Catholic Social Teaching goes back to Leo XIII). Let's let them wallow in their righteousness for a while and ignore them.
And yes, the 1965 visit by Paul VI to the United Nations. was significant. It was the first time a pope had ever visited the United Nations, and he chose to speak about peace with a near-toptal pacifist stance. If Mossback will recall, it was the United States who took the lead in that war, and the US should be blamed for the deaths in the war, not the Pope.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Mossback
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 04:02 PM

Or, I see Joe isn't interested in returning to our regularly scheduled program in favor of slinging more insults.

Dodge, weave, re-phrase, misinterpret and mis-quote as you will, Joe, in the (possibly apocryphal) words of Calvin Coolidge (and certainly not those of the legendary Mudcat clown who shall remain nameless):

"You lose."

Get over it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 04:03 PM

I admit Catholicism is out of my depth. Remember I said I bow to your scholorship in such matters. However I did start a thread hoping to learn more about the Vatican's support of the International Criminal Court.

You may be 'testy' at times but I have enormous balls. :^O

trivial points for spelling errors; Joe 3, Don 0.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis targeted by Steve Bannon
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 05:22 PM

My point, Donuel, was that there seemed to be no correlation between your out-of-the-blue "Joe I know you forgive certain fascists like Lindburg" allegation and the price of tea in China. The spelling is immaterial.
As for Mossback, he went totally off topic in a feeble attempt to score points by proving people wrong about immaterial matters, and it's not worth getting sucked into arguing with him about things that have nothing to do with the topic of discussion. What Mossback said was correct, but he was disagreeing with things that were also correct. Strange, but it's a common practice for Mossback. Mossback needs to remember that his position here is very tenuous, and he needs to be on his best behavior.
I think it's clear that this thread has run its course and should be closed. It's just a competition between Mossback and Donuel about who can be more off the wall.
-Joe Offer-


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This Thread Is Closed.


Mudcat time: 21 April 8:48 AM EDT

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