BS: Your thoughts on big business tax breaks

Subject: BS: Your thoughts on big business tax breaks
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 02 Jul 19 - 11:15 PM

( posting again, last one seems to have been erased by touchy touch screen)

I usually try not to get involved in political discussions, as they often turn antagonistic and persuade no one. But while sitting through ( and sitting out of) the discussion on Nike sneakers and the Betsy Ross flag, I was struck by a different issue. And that is how routine it seems to be for cities to beg a large business to move to their place with tax breaks, waivers and other incentives.

This happened not too long ago in New York City too with a controversy over Amazon. My question is - when did this policy of über breaks to lure in wealthy corporations
start ? Is it really prudent to let a multimillion dollar business skate on their taxes- certainly no such provision is given to a plethora of smaller businesses and mom and pop stores. Are they really giving the community that worthwhile a gift of jobs, while staying exempt from paying their fair share to the city/county / state?

I do admit that I was on the fence for this issue for a while, as job creation is a great thing to happen to any community. But I have since come to view this practice as a somewhat seedy way to do business. Maybe I' m too old school- and I certainly am no expert in economics - but I seem to remember a time when a thriving business could set up practice and succeed; without this form of polished bribery.

Your thoughts??? , and hopefully not much venom tossed about in the exchange of ideas.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Your thoughts on big business tax breaks
From: meself
Date: 02 Jul 19 - 11:41 PM

It's the same idea as bidding downward on wages: "He'll work for $15 an hour? I'll work for $12 an hour!" - the rush to the bottom. And if your community lands the big corporation, it just means that some other community did not. But who cares about them, buncha socialists ....

Subject: RE: BS: Your thoughts on big business tax breaks
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jul 19 - 01:17 AM

I think its an interesting one. I've seen a lot of low paid self employed people in the music business driven out of business, and in one case driven to an early death by having their activities the the subject of an 'investigation' by the tax authorities You can tell poor people by the amount they've got in their accounts, the property they occupy and their lifestyle. No more than a cursory investigation is needed - but in my experience the i'investigations' of poor people are intrusive and exhaustive - occupying many well paid and qualified staff.

We have Prince Charles with all the property inthe granddutchy paying hin ground rent. Well he's toyalty,needs a bit of razzamataxx, a decent. some bling and a couple of frocks for Camilla. But you don't get the feeling guys like him come under the same scrutiny as my mate who dropped dead with stress.

Then we have Amazon The jobs they provide are apparently not well paid. But they are jobs.

The Jensen Buttons, The Rolling Stones....well with publishing and wealth creation - I guess they pay something in. They promote some degree of economic activity.

But the City of London - I really don't get. Its entire purpose seems to be to divert as much money out of this country as possible. Wasn't that what Big Bang was all about?

Subject: RE: BS: Your thoughts on big business tax breaks
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jul 19 - 05:50 PM

Surely Big Bang deregulated the banks and financial services and enabled London to become the leading financial center? It employs 1/2 million people and the City of London's contribution to the UK's national income (or Gross Value Added, GVA) is estimated at £49.2bn in 2016 (2.8% of UK's output). It may shuffle money around the world but takes a commission each time around and how much of that money originated in the UK anyway?
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/04/magazine/how-london-surpassed-wall-street.html (2012 so a little dated, but the metrics are largely unchanged.)

Subject: RE: BS: Your thoughts on big business tax breaks
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jul 19 - 05:59 PM

only half a million people.
i wonder how they squash them all in.

interesting - all my guitars nearly are chinese in origin.
we all like the cheap chinese goods
i'm not sure morally its right.

Subject: RE: BS: Your thoughts on big business tax breaks
From: Iains
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 03:25 AM

Big Al if you change your market from parochial to global then the only mechanism to protect home markets is tariffs. Tariffs increase the prices of imported goods. Because of this, domestic producers are not forced to reduce their prices from increased competition, and domestic consumers are left paying higher prices as a result.
How this pans out in terms of sweatshops versus ethical purchasing is a moral question not economic. Thus far the only product that springs to mind where the question is answered on the wrapper (to give consumers a free choice) is fair trade coffee. It is a sound business decision to locate to lowest cost base, but the jobs lost at point A are gained in new location B. The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world. Theoretically jobs lost in one sector should be readily replaced in another(depending upon where we may be in the economic cycle)
Another factor to bear in mind is that certain industries, that are now virtually defunct, were very dangerous. Fishing and to a lesser extent mining killed hundreds. This cannot be said for cityworkers,

Subject: RE: BS: Your thoughts on big business tax breaks
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 04:06 PM

I don't think we've had a parochial economy since Roman times. We've been an international trading nation since then at least.

The realities ths of such an economy are that you are pretty much at the mercy of your level of technology. . Whatever you need to survive ...oil, rubber, gutta percha...the wriggle room for being too fastidious about who you deal with, has always been limited. Anyone who pretends otherwise is a hypocrite.

But having said that - you have responsibilities..the security, the welfare of your citizens. And if the ecology of the planet isn't taken care of, we all go to hell.

Its a complicated trade off. Always has been, Always will be. Get too obsessed with religious beliefs, political philosophies, moral considerations, conservative thought patterns....and you will lose pragmatism by which we survive.

I think that is what is so disconcerting about the Brexit question. The equation by which we live is highly complex. Insult and abuse seems to be the only avenues of debate open to many of those most actively involved - as you can observe most days on mudcat, fb, twitter, and sadly our media, and the House of Commons.

Subject: RE: BS: Your thoughts on big business tax breaks
From: olddude
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 08:04 PM

The tax breaks they give these corporations is insane. Just ask buffalo. The taxpayers foot the bill, they promise 200 high paying jobs and the community gets 50 min wage jobs for 60 million in tax breaks

Subject: RE: BS: Your thoughts on big business tax breaks
From: olddude
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 08:07 PM

One company got over 100 million in tax breaks from the state for two locations and gave 30 low paying jobs answering phones. It was a big computer company

Subject: RE: BS: Your thoughts on big business tax breaks
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 11:12 AM

Didn't understand that, Old Dude....
Ask a buffalo...?

Give me a home where the buffalo roam, and I'll show you a house full of shit....(the late Derek Brimsone)

Subject: RE: BS: Your thoughts on big business tax breaks
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 11:42 AM

Lol

Subject: RE: BS: Your thoughts on big business tax breaks
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 09:49 PM

Such tax breaks are fine, I guess, but they should be phased out over a definite, non-renewable, period. Of course, the businesses then simply pack up and move (e.g., Ireland in the 1980s and 1990s).