Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2]


BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??

Jim Carroll 15 Sep 19 - 08:27 PM
Nigel Parsons 15 Sep 19 - 08:12 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Sep 19 - 02:05 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Sep 19 - 04:04 AM
Mrrzy 14 Sep 19 - 10:35 PM
Nigel Parsons 14 Sep 19 - 07:25 PM
Jim Carroll 14 Sep 19 - 06:00 AM
Mrrzy 13 Sep 19 - 06:16 PM
Jim Carroll 11 Sep 19 - 09:44 AM
Mrrzy 11 Sep 19 - 09:15 AM
Iains 11 Sep 19 - 03:57 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Sep 19 - 03:35 AM
Iains 10 Sep 19 - 05:25 PM
Mrrzy 10 Sep 19 - 04:45 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Sep 19 - 11:01 AM
Mrrzy 10 Sep 19 - 10:18 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Sep 19 - 04:17 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Sep 19 - 04:08 AM
Nigel Parsons 09 Sep 19 - 04:29 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Sep 19 - 02:44 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Sep 19 - 02:28 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Sep 19 - 01:42 PM
Iains 09 Sep 19 - 01:34 PM
Nigel Parsons 09 Sep 19 - 11:11 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Sep 19 - 11:03 AM
Nigel Parsons 09 Sep 19 - 10:48 AM
Mrrzy 07 Sep 19 - 12:40 PM
Jim Carroll 06 Sep 19 - 06:49 AM
EBarnacle 30 Aug 19 - 01:42 AM
Mrrzy 29 Aug 19 - 09:46 AM
Jim Carroll 29 Aug 19 - 09:27 AM
Iains 29 Aug 19 - 08:57 AM
Jim Carroll 29 Aug 19 - 08:38 AM
Iains 29 Aug 19 - 08:20 AM
Mr Red 29 Aug 19 - 02:44 AM
Mrrzy 27 Aug 19 - 02:46 PM
wendyg 26 Aug 19 - 06:26 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Aug 19 - 04:28 AM
Stilly River Sage 24 Aug 19 - 04:17 PM
Dorothy Parshall 22 Aug 19 - 01:59 PM
meself 22 Aug 19 - 12:45 PM
Mrrzy 22 Aug 19 - 12:00 PM
Mrrzy 21 Aug 19 - 11:53 PM
Mrrzy 21 Aug 19 - 11:46 PM
meself 21 Aug 19 - 08:26 PM
ollaimh 21 Aug 19 - 08:20 PM
Mr Red 21 Aug 19 - 03:35 PM
SPB-Cooperator 21 Aug 19 - 07:03 AM
Iains 20 Aug 19 - 04:46 AM
Mrrzy 19 Aug 19 - 07:47 PM

Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Sep 19 - 08:27 PM

""prepared to see refugees drown rather than let them pollute British soil ""
If they are prepared to refuse them their legal right to return (9n the case of so-called Jihadists) and are letting them rot in disease riddled refugee camps, or force them to face the horrors of Assad's torture chambers (as many of them now are), drowning at sea is pretty low on the list of inhumanity Britain has long being indulging in
I would bother re-asking you about your stance on selling fighter planes to be used on the Yemenis and then blocking refugees from wars like that from entering Britain
I have no idea how you describe yourself but humanitarian doesn't spring to mind
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Sep 19 - 08:12 PM

Jim:
You said that Britain was: "prepared to see refugees drown rather than let them pollute British soil "
I asked for any quotes you could give to back up your assertion. You have still not provided any. The only reasonable assumption is that your claim is unsubstantiated. I will happily read any links that you can give which show that: Britain is prepared to see refugees drown rather than let them pollute British soil.
In the absence of any such links, I would hope that you would withdraw your claim.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Sep 19 - 02:05 PM

"epi Homes"
Epic Homs wrangle, of course
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Sep 19 - 04:04 AM

"So, the short answer would be: "No, I have no evidence to back my claim!"
These discussions have been full of evidence since they started Nigel - every time you are presents with it you do a runner
You have not responded to a single point on this thread alone - not to mention all those that have taken place since the epi Homes wrangle
There's little point in repeating them as you'll do your disappearing act as soon as they are
The facts are self evident - Britain has supporters and acted as armourer to despotic leaders in most of the trouble spots in the world today
On the eve of the Arab Spring, Cameron launched a massive arms fair to sell arms to those who were being protested against
True or false ?
Economic economic immigration is caused by people fleeing appalling conditions and low wages in some of the poorest countries on the planet
Briish shops are filled with goods produced n such countries
True o false ?

See you when you get back from your holiday
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 10:35 PM

I read that as "detonation center" oops.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 07:25 PM

Me: (quoting Jim)You should be proud of what Britain has become Nigel - abandoning fighters against Assad while at the same time prepared to see refugees drown rather than let them pollute British soil
Boats patrolling the straits of Dover are regularly landing the migrants from boats (not necessarily 'refugees'). Do you have any evidence at all for your claim that we are letting these migrants drown rather than protecting them?


Jim's response:
It hasn't happened in Britain yet but as things are going, there is nothing to stop what happened a few yeas ago elsewhere, happening here regularly
A SHAMING REMINDER
Do you really want this to happen ?
As things stand at present the inhuman conditions refugees are condemned to when they attempt to get to Britain is a human rights disgrace that should not be allowed to happen
Itis is not solely Britain's fault but our government is as much a part of it as is any other

Briatain ghas been very much a part of this massive dislodgement of people from their homes - the choice we have gien them is stay at home and satarve, or be kild or tortured, or leave and endure the inhuman conditions we are imposing on them - a Hobson's Choice
It is the predatory and selfish nature of countries like ours that has caused this inhuman catastrophe - I am totally unable to understand how people can describe themselves as Christian (or even human) and stand by and let it happen (let alone vote for it, as they have)
Now we are allowing our government to punish those young people who attempted to stand up to one of the world's worst despots, by exiling them
Makes you proud to be British - eh what !!!


So, the short answer would be: "No, I have no evidence to back my claim!"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 06:00 AM

A new twist in this growing menace to humanity in this morning's Paper
India hads declared it is fast tracking its intention to build a detention centre to house people who have no papers to prove they have a right to stay in the country - it is planning to build another nine
Mass migration caused by acts such as those carried out by British citizens is well on the way to becoming an international crisis of inhuman proportions
It really is time it was taken as seriously as this frightening problem merits and our Governments are whipped into line into stop using immigration and refugeeism for political gains
I was a wartime baby and grew up respecting the thoughtful respect for human life that was shown towards people in trouble - that is now long gone along with all the other things |I was once proud of
What the **** is happening to this now Trump and Johnson infested planet ?
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Sep 19 - 06:16 PM

Well, ya coulda used a comma here and there... Mostly there (to quote the great lyricist Phil Ochs)...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 09:44 AM

Thanks Mrrzy
More a case of getting a passing child to read it for him, I'm afraid
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 09:15 AM

Read more slowly. Makes both grammatical and moral sense.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Iains
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 03:57 AM

"There is little, if any difference between people fleeing wars we have helped exist and those fleeing the poverty our involvement in the new International slavery we have supported by filling our shops with its goods - they are all infact refugees, however you choose to divide them to let your government off the hook"

I must congratulate you on your mangling of my mother tongue. I simply cannot understand what you are trying to say. Take a deep breath and try again! and proof read it before posting!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 03:35 AM

"(not necessarily 'refugees')."
Meant to reply to this before I got diverted
There is little, if any difference between people fleeing wars we have helped exist and those fleeing the poverty our involvement in the new International slavery we have supported by filling our shops with its goods - they are all infact refugees, however you choose to divide them to let your government off the hook
The same with the "what about France" finger-pointing
We are just as responsible as the countries concerned for the appalling conditions forced on fleeing human beings as are the nations they happened to be trapped in - it is our problem and our moral responsibility to solve it
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Iains
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 05:25 PM

As things stand at present the inhuman conditions refugees are condemned to when they attempt to get to Britain is a human rights disgrace that should not be allowed to happen

You obviously still cannot understand the difference between a migrant and a refugee.
If a refugee they would not need to attempt illegal entry. They have rights under the 1951 Refugee Convention and within the EU under the Dublin convention.

You are told repeatedly what a refugee is defined as, yet continue to post nonsense.

From the Guardian: Charities said the recent arrivals were due to intolerable conditions in the camps in France, including police brutality and intimidation, and a growing sense of “now or never” as Brexit and future immigration restrictions loom. Other also suggest smugglers are exploiting new routes to get migrants to the UK.

Why not take your outrage to France and complain about their police brutality. It obviously does not suit your agenda of attacking Britain
every chance you get.

Now we are allowing our government to punish those young people who attempted to stand up to one of the world's worst despots, by exiling them
Makes you proud to be British - eh what !!!


The more rational among us simply call them isis terrorists and I for one only wish to see them neutralised by whatever means


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 04:45 PM

Right, so not parallel. Wires fine but communication with them has static. The people in the Middle East fought against us. Your dad fought against them. Us and them in quotes.
You bear arms against my nation you are no longer us. Seems simple but it's not, especially if We are terribly in the wrong.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 11:01 AM

"Jim Carroll, was your dad British? I don't think he fought against the British in Spain? "
He was British and he fought in Spain -
You seem to have crossed wires here - - the International Brigades didn't fight against the British - they went to fight Franco and his Moroccan mercenaries who instigated a civil war against the legally elected Republican Government
Rather than support the Republicans, the British watched as Hitler tested his newly re-established Luftwaffe on the People of Spain, those who did fight were criminalised - preetty much as these Muslim kids have been for fighting Franco's equivalent, Assad
My dad's name appears in several autobiographies of others who fought there, including that of American film screenwriter, Alvah Bessie (one of the Hollywood Ten who were hounded out of their jobs by Mad Joe McCarthy)
Bessie describes in his book, 'Men in Battle' how, during the journey into Spain over the Pyrenees, he saw a "young Scots lad sitting asleep on the floor of the railway truck with his mouth hanging open (p 82, I think)
My dad was a Liverpudlian actually born in Glasgow because his market-trader parents were there at the time - he acquired the nickname, 'Scottie'.
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 10:18 AM

Jim Carroll, was your dad British? I don't think he fought against the British in Spain? So not parallel? I can be wrong on all of that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 04:17 AM

AN INTESTING REPORT - FOR THOSE INTERESTED ENOUGH

It's should be a sobering thought that, if Britain and other wealthy nations had taken the same attitude towards those fleeing Nazi persecution that they are taking now, there would be millions less Jews in the world than there are.
Unfortunately, people seem not to care as much about their fellow human beings as they once did
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 04:08 AM

It hasn't happened in Britain yet but as things are going, there is nothing to stop what happened a few yeas ago elsewhere, happening here regularly
A SHAMING REMINDER
Do you really want this to happen ?
As things stand at present the inhuman conditions refugees are condemned to when they attempt to get to Britain is a human rights disgrace that should not be allowed to happen
Itis is not solely Britain's fault but our government is as much a part of it as is any other

Briatain ghas been very much a part of this massive dislodgement of people from their homes - the choice we have gien them is stay at home and satarve, or be kild or tortured, or leave and endure the inhuman conditions we are imposing on them - a Hobson's Choice
It is the predatory and selfish nature of countries like ours that has caused this inhuman catastrophe - I am totally unable to understand how people can describe themselves as Christian (or even human) and stand by and let it happen (let alone vote for it, as they have)
Now we are allowing our government to punish those young people who attempted to stand up to one of the world's worst despots, by exiling them
Makes you proud to be British - eh what !!!
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 04:29 PM

Jim:
You should be proud of what Britain has become Nigel - abandoning fighters against Assad while at the same time prepared to see refugees drown rather than let them pollute British soil
Boats patrolling the straits of Dover are regularly landing the migrants from boats (not necessarily 'refugees'). Do you have any evidence at all for your claim that we are letting these migrants drown rather than protecting them?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 02:44 PM

WHAT TH WORLD CONDEMNS, OUR RESIDENT TOMMY ROBINSON-ALIKE CONDONES
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 02:28 PM

For just for my curiosity Nigel
Just what do you think the "onsequences" for fighting in Spain should have been, given the fact that the fame Luftwaffe that bombed the marketplace in Guernica and the centre of Madrid, with murderous consequences, a yer or so later were slaughtering Londoners and Liverpudlians ?
Severe, I take it !!
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 01:42 PM

" took their actions in the knowledge that there could/would be consequences for their actions."
Those who went to Syria were little more than Children when they went
My father was wounded, imprisoned and psychologically tortured in spain
When he returned from Spain he found himself criminalised at the behest of MI5
He was blacklisted from work and forced to leave home to feed his family - I didn't see him regularly until I was nine years old
He was also excommunicated from his church
All for going off to fight fascism
The heroes of the International Brigades didn't expect anything from the Government - they had had five years of them appeasing Hitler before they leftbut they believed because of the imminence of war, that there would be no reprisals for going to fight the people Britain was lining up to go to war with
If the policies adopted by Britain today the IB would probably have ended up in the hands of the Nazis, deprived of the right to return home - just like those British citizens now in the hands of mass-murderer Assad
You should be proud of what Britain ahs become Nigel - abandoning fighters againt Assad while at teh same time prepared to see refugees drown rather than let them pollute British soil
Jim carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 01:34 PM

It transpired that the chemicals sold to him could well have been used to make the weapons Assad Assed used on his opponents

Could be they were used to purify water or perhaps chlorinate chickens.

the young people were volunteers fighting a madman
T'other way about I think.
Does any of this ring a bell?
1)membership of Isis
2)Conscripting children
3)Using human shields
4)burning captured pilots
5)random beheadings
6)Captive brides

You inhabit a very strange world.

Syria was a very pleasant secular country with numerous religions and all living in harmony until the crazies arrived,
I know, I was living there for vast blocks of time for nearly 4 years up until it all kicked off.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 11:11 AM

And I would assume that those who had the courage to do what the rest of the world failed to do took their actions in the knowledge that there could/would be consequences for their actions.
I wouldn't imagine that your father, when he went to Spain, had any expectation that the government would bail him out if he got into trouble.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 11:03 AM

"But why are they in Syria in the first place?"
The went to fight when they saw their fellow Muslims being massacred and driven into torture chambers with the help of British military equipment Nigel
People asked my father exactly the same question when he went of to fight fascists in Spain - shortly afterwards, the same people he went to fight were bombing the shit out of Britain and herding the Jews into gas chambers
Britain supported the rise of Assad even though they were warned by Amnesty about the mass murder and torture that he was instigating
Even when he started massacring his own people openly on the streets of Homs, Britain voted not to become involved
It transpired that the chemicals sold to him could well have been used to make the weapons Assad Assed used on his opponents
Whatever they turned out to be, the young people were volunteers fighting a madman because the rest of the world stood by doing nothing - they were heroes
Britain and those who supported their actions in Syria should hang their head in shame - they certainly should not be supporting punishment of those who had the courage to do what the rest of the world failed to do
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 10:48 AM

But why are they in Syria in the first place? The Foreign Office advises against travelling to Syria, and states that consular services are not available in that country. This would make it difficult to repatriate (even) innocent travellers to the country, why should the UK exert itself to repatriate those who have travelled there to make war?


If the SDF (Syrian Democratic Forces) who are currently hold them decide to try and deport them then we should accept them back. But if they are not trying to deport them then they are there by their own choice, and should take the consequences.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 12:40 PM

Yeah- I saw that one. But you can't be born stateless, so those kids would have the nationality of wherever they were born, no? And if it's US soil, like a base or an embassy, that's American, no? Think McCain or whoever it was running for president claiming to be eligible based on that...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 06:49 AM

INTERESTING COMMENT IN THIS MORNING'S TIMES
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: EBarnacle
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 01:42 AM

The most recent shot in this battle is tRump's current attempt to eliminate birthright citizenship for those serving our country overseas, including in the military and diplomatic services. Be sure there will be litigation over this. His people are already attempting to backpedal this by "clarifying" it to mean that this only applies to children of noncitizens in service to America. If this interpretation is allowed to hold, it could produce a new class of stateless persons.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 09:46 AM

Sorry, but no. I am a US citizen. My rationality is American. Ahhahahaha sorry my NAtionality is American. If I am stripped of my US citizenship then my nationality is no longer American. Since I do not have dual citizenship I would have no nationality, and be stateless.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 09:27 AM

The stripping of citizenship has now become a major weapon in the armory of extremist regimes - millions of people are roaming the planet unable to return home
Meanwhile, back on Mudcat discussion on subjects such as these are being used as a hate playground for a troll we have all been told to ignore
I realise I risk the danger of getting this thread closed, but please, please - could a passing moderator please tell this individual to take his hate postings elsewhere and allow those who care about subjects such as this to discuss them
This form us gradually and single-handedly being turned into a hate-site
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Iains
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 08:57 AM

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/09d7a5a74a98e00070160f8884c571602ccb39e7af29332504875d695ed2a0a7.jpg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 08:38 AM

"I would take away the citizenship of Gina Millar , the vexatious litigant!"
Be honest - you woud strip away the citizenship of everybody who disagreed with you, were you in the position to do so - as would all of your ilk
God save the world from such bullies
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Iains
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 08:20 AM

I would take away the citizenship of Gina Millar , the vexatious litigant!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 02:44 AM

What is meant by Citizenship here is nationality, not civic behavior.

Nationality is nationality. Citizenship is not nationality. Are you arguing lexicography instead of etymology? Think.

A citizen is part of the city, surely. Prison is a village, and has precious few of the city privileges. Being in prison is citizen light, if at all. Being dead does not allow you to wander or contribute unless you have acquired and bequeathed that which you screwed from real citizens.

You can be an ex-pat in a xeno-city and be a model citizen - I submit, m'lord. While the words can be interchanged, like a "square peg in a.........." - they ain't equivalent, not even kissing cousins.

Merriam Webster thinks citizenship is :
1 : the status of being a citizen. 2 : the quality of an individual's behavior as a citizen. 3 : domicile

Hardly anything about passports ne c'est pas?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Aug 19 - 02:46 PM

Anybody watching India about to leave thousands stateless?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: wendyg
Date: 26 Aug 19 - 06:26 AM

I'm very disturbed by the idea that birthright citizenship can be stripped - and in fact there is a 1967 Supreme Court decision (Afroyim v. Rusk: https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/387/253.html) that hoplds that under the 14th Amendment citizenship cannot be taken from you (though you can elect to renounce it).

Naturalized citizenship is a little trickier. I suspect most naturalization laws have a get-out clause in case of fraud that's discovered later or in case the naturalized person becomes a danger in some way.

But if a country can simply strip the citizenship of people the government of the day disagrees with, there are huge dangers for dissenters of all stripes. The 1967 decision came shortly after a time in which left-wing Americans saw the State Department refuse them passports, some of them people we know and admire on the folk scene. So yes, I find the whole idea extremely disturbing.

Of course, at one time countries handled this by simply shipping people to an empty continent somewhere. We're fresh out of those...

wg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Aug 19 - 04:28 AM

Interesting insight into how some members of the establishment view the rights of British Citizenship in this morning's Sunday Times
Retired diplomat, Michael Lillis, describes how, during the Troubles, Mad Maggie Thatcher suggested that all those living in the Northern Counties who didn't wish to be British Citizens should be forcibly moved to the South.
She cited Oliver Cromwell's forcible mass emigration of the "Rebellious Irish" into Connaught as a precedent
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Aug 19 - 04:17 PM

Returning to the subject of citizenship and who may stay:

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/richard-bertinet-brexit-baker-bath-3247943


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 22 Aug 19 - 01:59 PM

WOW! The previous two comments are excellent precis of the conundrum, and the chaos we are facing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: meself
Date: 22 Aug 19 - 12:45 PM

The term has already become meaningless, I'm afraid. Not only are individual members of military forces associated with terrorism (e.g., Isis, Taliban) called 'terrorists', peaceful protesters are called 'terrorists', peaceful politicians are called 'terrorists', a rioter who breaks a plate-glass window is called a 'terrorist' ... it's another once-useful term that's gone the way of so many others.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Aug 19 - 12:00 PM

Hmmm. Military killing other military is war. Military killing other's civilians is war crime. Civilians killing others' military is insurgency. Civilians killing individual civilians for personal reasons is murder. Civilians killing other civilians for political reasons is terrorism. So 9-11 and the Pulse killings (for example] were terrorism. The attacks on US (or other) embassies were too. The attack on the Cole was not, nor the attack on the Marine barracks.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 11:53 PM

What is meant by Citizenship here is nationality, not civic behavior.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 11:46 PM

Um, MrRed, your comment asked specifically about *the death penalty* depriving of citizenship. I hold that no, it doesn't.

Putting someone in prison deprives them of liberty, not of citizenship. Even if they can't vote they remain citizens.

Folks who choose not to vote are not deprived of citizenship, they are failing in their civic dity.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: meself
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 08:26 PM

But our beloved Canada is doing the same thing with Somalis - there's another scheduled to be 'sent back' in a week or so - he's only been in Canada since he was 10 .... At least the British govt is not sending Letts to a violent, failed state where he doesn't know anyone , and doesn't speak the language.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: ollaimh
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 08:20 PM

and the fookin brits are dumping the problem on canada just before the election. good luck getting a canadian trade deal from canada after no deal brexit.

his father is a canadian citizen . we don't strip citizenship except for fraud. so we will have to charge him for war crimes in the mid east when the shittish government could just charge him as a terrorist and jail him in the uk.

he was born and raised in the uk and you jerks should shovel your own garbage and stop dumping it on canada.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 03:35 PM

Mrrzy

My comment was "depriving of citizenship"

Incarceration gets close to that in the first place, can inmates vote?

If you can't be part of society you are deprived. If you are dead you are not part of society, especially if any money you don't have can't benefit society after you are gone.

It was a a sideways comment on the death penalty in context. But I stand by "deprive".

Staying "on thread" the UK would appear to have educated the man, and its citizens would appear to have re-educated him. So we are responsible for the mess, and the clean-up.

But then there are tactics to all of this, and when the UK mans-up to its responsibility, the guy will be a little softer to handle. I predict.
And there is the message it sends to others: jihadists, potential jihadists, and their parents. It's tactics, stupid.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 07:03 AM

If I can convince the tories I am an undesirable, does that mean that they will set me up with a home and job in Nova Scotia? Oh goody! Where do I start?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Iains
Date: 20 Aug 19 - 04:46 AM

As Jihadi Jack's pater was found guilty of funding terrorism, why is he not being shuttled off back to Canada as well.
Justice must be seen to be even handed.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Aug 19 - 07:47 PM

Ah, but he renounced. I don't think any nation can force unwanted citizenship on an adult, even though we have the right to not be stateless. (One could argue that US citizenship was forced on me as a neonate. I'm not complaining.) What about that guy stuck in a transit lounge when the country whose passport he was traveling on un-happened, leaving him stateless?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate


Next Page

 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 22 September 10:40 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.