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PBS - Ken Burns Country Music

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GUEST,Derek Schofield 19 Jul 21 - 05:11 AM
punkfolkrocker 18 Jul 21 - 04:36 PM
r.padgett 18 Jul 21 - 02:53 PM
pattyClink 18 Jul 21 - 10:46 AM
GUEST,henryp 18 Jul 21 - 07:57 AM
GUEST,CJB666 30 Nov 20 - 05:23 AM
GUEST,CJB666 29 Nov 20 - 05:42 PM
Andy M 28 Nov 20 - 06:56 AM
GUEST,CJB666 26 Nov 20 - 12:21 PM
Bill D 25 Nov 20 - 08:18 PM
Rain Dog 25 Nov 20 - 06:37 PM
DaveRo 21 Nov 20 - 04:08 AM
Jon Bartlett 20 Nov 20 - 08:15 PM
GUEST,CJB666 20 Nov 20 - 01:15 PM
DaveRo 19 Nov 20 - 03:44 PM
GUEST,Jerry 17 Nov 20 - 04:03 AM
DaveRo 17 Nov 20 - 03:53 AM
GUEST,henryp 16 Nov 20 - 06:27 PM
Rain Dog 16 Nov 20 - 04:43 PM
Bill D 18 Jan 20 - 02:16 PM
Joe Offer 17 Jan 20 - 08:53 PM
GUEST,Derek Schofield 24 Nov 19 - 05:07 AM
GUEST,Jerome Clark 23 Nov 19 - 09:30 AM
GUEST,Jerome Clark 23 Nov 19 - 09:10 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 23 Nov 19 - 06:33 AM
GUEST,John from Kemsing 23 Nov 19 - 05:44 AM
GUEST,HiLo 23 Nov 19 - 01:14 AM
Joe Offer 23 Nov 19 - 12:30 AM
GUEST,HiLo 22 Nov 19 - 11:19 PM
Gibb Sahib 22 Nov 19 - 11:02 PM
DaveRo 22 Nov 19 - 06:37 AM
GUEST,bigJ 22 Nov 19 - 05:37 AM
gillymor 18 Nov 19 - 07:02 AM
GUEST,Jerome Clark 17 Nov 19 - 10:37 PM
Stewie 17 Nov 19 - 10:22 PM
Joe Offer 17 Nov 19 - 09:56 PM
GUEST,Jerome Clark 17 Nov 19 - 09:15 PM
DaveRo 17 Nov 19 - 02:40 AM
GUEST,Jerome Clark 02 Oct 19 - 08:45 PM
GUEST 02 Oct 19 - 11:13 AM
Joe Offer 01 Oct 19 - 07:10 PM
GUEST,Larry W Jones - Kingwood Kowboy 29 Sep 19 - 09:40 PM
GUEST,guest.crowlibrarian 29 Sep 19 - 07:24 PM
gillymor 29 Sep 19 - 07:00 PM
Gibb Sahib 29 Sep 19 - 06:54 PM
Bill D 29 Sep 19 - 06:06 PM
Mossback 29 Sep 19 - 03:52 PM
robomatic 29 Sep 19 - 03:27 PM
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Mossback 29 Sep 19 - 01:54 PM
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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 19 Jul 21 - 05:11 AM

It's been on UK PBS Saturday and Sunday starting at 8.30 last weekend (10-11 July) and the weekend just ended (17-18 July). Four programmes out of 8 so far, so presumably the remaining programmes will be the next two weekends.
Derek


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jul 21 - 04:36 PM

It's on UK PBS right now (Part 4 of 8]

Just under 2 1/2 hours episode, counting ad breaks.

Starts again in 5 mins on PBS + 1

It's pot luck if it's on when I'm channel surfing,
and have yet to manage watching an entire episode..

But it's great for dipping into for as long as time allows..

I'm well lucky.. it's the mid 1950s and Rockabilly rules, transforming country...

Couln't have chanced on a better episode...


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: r.padgett
Date: 18 Jul 21 - 02:53 PM

All I can say is it is being shown on BBC Alba and I am enjoying it immensely ~ yes in Gaelic, subtitles in English and tunes and songs in English

I was not a Country music person ~but a folkie of the traditional ilk the history covers pretty well the racial aspect of 1950/6 onwards too

Ray


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: pattyClink
Date: 18 Jul 21 - 10:46 AM

His music documentaries were just part of a string of Subjects he made films on. He is not a musician.

He presented a lot of good historical material to millions of people. Unfortunately people take the material and decide it is The Correct Version of History.   

Hank Jr. is just the most obvious example, where Burn's taste or desire for a coherent narrative caused him to give him more importance to HWJr than he actually had. I wasn't there in the 30s, I don't know how much of the Burns narrative was the heart of the story. But we were alive in the later parts of the story, and his telling of it during that period is off-kilter to say the least. In the past he's shown poor understanding of early Irish immigration. It wouldn't be a big deal, except generations are going to assume whatever Burns puts in a film is gospel.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 18 Jul 21 - 07:57 AM

The Observer today, Sunday 18 July 2021
The New Review, Q&A with Ken Burns, Documentary-maker, 67
The acclaimed film-maker on his six-part portrait of Hemingway,
his 40-year career, and working during the golden age of storytelling.

But nothing about music!


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,CJB666
Date: 30 Nov 20 - 05:23 AM

There are influences that Burns does not cover - Irish immigrants both from Southern Island and also Ulster (Scots-Irish). Its well known that the cots-Irish settled in the Appalachians. However since Sharp 'discovered' what he opined to be lost English ballads in the region the folks there have always preferred to believe that they come from English stock rather than Scots-Irish.

As we all know the Irish had and still have a vast traditional music and song heritage. Burns completely ignored this in his series, including the influences that traditional Irish music might have had in the development of Country Music.

During the series I d notice that many folks danced some solo steps - but old-style step dancing (low to the ground, effortless, and elegant) was prolific throughout the UK and Ireland and Appalachia. Sadly most of this has gone for more wilder forms.

====


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,CJB666
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 05:42 PM

On YouTube ...

The Rub (beginnings to 1933) - Country Music documentary Disc 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKs66SBZElw

Hard Times (1933 - 1945) - Country Music documentary Disc 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcAEtI3LD08

The Hillbilly Shakespeare (1945 - 1953) - Country Music documentary Disc 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqEvgGwVdZo

I Can't Stop Loving You (1953 - 1963) - Country Music documentary Disc 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26nID13aX2E

====

Discs 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 to come.

====


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: Andy M
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 06:56 AM

Jon Bartlett - thanks for the pointer to the LRofBooks article about this series.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,CJB666
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 12:21 PM

The downloads from Archive.org appear to be edited likely due to copyright restrictions. They do not include all 8 episodes. Maybe the BBC had the same issues which is why it did not air the full series too.

It seems that PBS America on Freeview has aired the complete series from DVDs - even adding 30 mins to the time slots so that content wouldn't be edited out to make room for adverts.

I have recorded all of PBS America's airings. I will then need to edit out the damned adverts - mainly for bl**dy funeral services FGS.

I've also got subtitles on most of the recordings.

Meanwhile 'All You Need Is Love' is still airing on Freeview London Live. However these are limited to one hour time slots and at least 10 mins of content is edited out to make room for ads.

For the latter, DVDs are available quite cheaply on eBay. Regardless of region they can all be played on a computer using such as VLC.

===


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 08:18 PM

Thanks to CJB... It takes some careful doing, but the downloads work fine. I like having them on my PC as I may need the space on my Verizon box, which has limits. These can go on an external drive.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: Rain Dog
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 06:37 PM

Just finished watching the last episode tonight and very enjoyable it was too. Was surprised to see a photo of Tom Waits pop up near the end. I saw him at the Ryman back in 2006


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: DaveRo
Date: 21 Nov 20 - 04:08 AM

Thanks for posing that. I googled it and read it - well, half of it. (You can read one article free on LRB's website).

It starts with Burns' famous Civil War documentary, the lasting imression that might have given on the cause of the war, and the effect of that on Burns' later work. It then discusses the 'truth' of some of the claims in Country Music.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 08:15 PM

There's an interesting critique of Ken Burns' work by Alex Abramovich - "Even when it's a big fat lie" in London Review of Books, Vol 42 No.19 of 8 October 2020.

Jon Bartlett


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,CJB666
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 01:15 PM

Archive.org ....

This amazing definitive series of programmes - with many archival
clips - has taken the Country Music scene by storm. The original
series was 8 episodes - maybe available later. The below seems to be a compilation of these to 6 episodes (I guess many items were in copyright).

Here is the main webpage:

https://www.ttmworld.co.uk/ken-burns-country-music-on-pbs-america/

Episodes can be downloaded from here:

https://archive.org/details/ken-burns-country-music-5-6
[scroll down]

Episodes 1 & 2

https://archive.org/download/ken-burns-country-music-5-6/Ken%20Burns%20Country%20music%201%20%26%202.mp4 [2 hours - 3.5GB]

Episodes 3 & 4

https://archive.org/download/ken-burns-country-music-5-6/Ken%20Burns%20Country%20music%203%20%26%204.mp4 [2 hours - 3.5GB]

Episodes 5 & 6

https://archive.org/download/ken-burns-country-music-5-6/Ken%20Burns%20Country%20music%205%20%26%206.mp4 [2 hours - 3.5GB]

Enjoy

====


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: DaveRo
Date: 19 Nov 20 - 03:44 PM

Last month, "It's the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown" wasn't aired on TV, marking the first time since 1965 that the Peanuts special wasn't broadcasted. Instead, it was streamed on Apple+. Now, according to The Associated Press, the Charlie Brown Thanksgiving and Christmas specials will return to the air. From the report:
On Wednesday, Apple bowed to the backlash, announcing it had teamed up with PBS for ad-free broadcasts of "A Charlie Brown Thanksgiving" (on Nov. 22) and "A Charlie Brown Christmas" (on Dec. 13).
From here.

I look forward to these being broadcasted (sic) in the UK.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 17 Nov 20 - 04:03 AM

Too true; can’t they give Hitler his own dedicated TV Channel?
Good though to have Sky Arts on Freeview now in the UK, with lots of music programmes previously unseen by many of us.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: DaveRo
Date: 17 Nov 20 - 03:53 AM

I'm currently watching Reconstruction, which I think is a new series
https://www.pbs.org/weta/reconstruction/

PBS America (which is the UK channel name) is also available on FreeSat BTW - and other services. I always record a whole series before watching any of it. I only finished Country Music last month!

Good to see more American stuff on PBS lately rather than BBC repeats. Still way too much about WWII and weaponry, though.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 16 Nov 20 - 06:27 PM

Recent series on PBS America;
Civil War 1990
Prohibition 2011
Country Music 2019

PBS America seems to be working its way through Ken Burns' output.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: Rain Dog
Date: 16 Nov 20 - 04:43 PM

Showing how here in the UK on PBS America on Freeview


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 02:16 PM

I have them all saved on my Verizon recorder. I can keep a few dozen programs as long as I'm careful of the space.
   I expect to re-run them slowly soon.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Jan 20 - 08:53 PM

I got the Blu-Ray edition for myself for Christmas, and I've watched the first two episodes. I'm really enjoying it. The black-and-white still photos from the 1930s come out wonderful on hi-definition TV.
The show is available for streaming, but it doesn't come out very well on my rural California Internet connection.

If you'd like to stream the show for free, you can start with Episode 1 here:

For me, the Blu-Ray supplemental material was almost worth the price. There's a great interview of Rhiannon Giddens, for example.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 24 Nov 19 - 05:07 AM

Hootenanny.
There is a DVD, details here (or just Google), and from the comments, it seems this is the complete version, with extras:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ken-Burns-Country-Music-DVD/dp/B07PXRGXZL

As the Guardian review stated … three chords and only half the truth...
Derek


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,Jerome Clark
Date: 23 Nov 19 - 09:30 AM

My apologies for misspelling Gibb Sahib's first name. I plead too little coffee in my system at this still-early hour.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,Jerome Clark
Date: 23 Nov 19 - 09:10 AM

I still don't quite understand what Gib Sahib is trying to communicate. I guess, though, that if he does, so be it, and God bless him. Perhaps this underscores the point that music is hard to talk or write about. As a frequent reviewer of same, I know that all too well.

But I confess that I am puzzled why Hank Williams, not known for political songs, needs to be seen through a political lens. To the contrary, Hank's greatness is one of the few issues on which all sides and parties agree. It is simply a fact that his music represents a rural sensibility which even in his time (late 1949s/early 1950s) was going out of fashion in the music ironically called "country." Anyone who knows folk music will hear the influence of traditional song, but you don't have to know as much to appreciate the power in his art. And of course, you shouldn't have to apologize for possessing knowledge of older, traditional music.

If our friend insists that Hank Jr. is an important figure (in any but, decades ago, a commercial sense), his is a minority view, significantly so, but I simply don't wish to argue the matter. Any time spent on Hank Jr. is time lost forever, and he isn't worth the sacrifice.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 23 Nov 19 - 06:33 AM

Some nice rare and good quality film clips and photographs and very well put together but why is the BBC unable/unwilling to let us see the whole series as shown on PBS? It seems that we will only be able to see about half of the original series in an edited/abbreviated form.

Is there or will there be a box set of the complete original series I wonder?


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 23 Nov 19 - 05:44 AM

Two hours of enjoyable and informative T.V. I look forward to next weekend`s programmes.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 23 Nov 19 - 01:14 AM

In other words a semi obscure government word for price fixing, Who knew?


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Nov 19 - 12:30 AM

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/valorize

1: to enhance or try to enhance the price, value, or status of by organized and usually governmental action
using subsidies to valorize coffee

2: to assign value or merit to : VALIDATE


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 11:19 PM

Hi Gibb, I don’t mean this to be rude question, but what in gods name does Valorize mean ?


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 11:02 PM

Jerome Clark,

"Actually, the notion that country was once better (and more "authentic") than it is now is hardly confined to liberal listeners."
I agree 100%. And yet, different audiences have different reasons for asserting things of the past are better.

"I don't know what the correspondent above is talking about."
I am talking about what I was talking about: An observation of a certain audience, which I believe is well represented among those who identify with Folk genre and who don't really identify with Country -- though they'll say they like some Country item -- VS. those people who strongly identify with Country in all its rage and variety. The observation, once again, is of a listener type that I've often encountered that tends to valorize Country-labelled artists before a certain time (perhaps along with a few exceptions in the later time). Among these valorized artists, Hank Williams Senior, again as I've observed, holds a special place. He seems to represent values that are more congruent with their values, and serves as a representation of Country "as it was before..." it became something that is incongruent with their values. Again, I contrast that with the devoted, strongly identifying Country audiences who are more inclined to take in the entire range of Country.

"Rather than bash liberals as the root of all evil..."
Dunno who is doing that. I am a liberal. It's possible to reflect on the society of which one is a part, to self-analyze, etc. Nor do I identify as a Country fan. I do identify as an anthropologist, and I am an observer and critic of culture, warts and all.

"By the way, Hank Jr. is a talentless jerk." I certainly disagree about the talentless part, but I tend to doubt that is the main reason for the phenomenon which I've flagged. A jerk, hmm, OK -- but I don't care about that.

"your correspondent would more productively spend his time"
What's this "correspondent" business, and why addressing in the third person?

"people, who may disagree about everything else, are of one mind on this particular question."
They most certainly are not of one mind. If they appear to be of one mind in this conversation, then that substantiates my "theory" about the Folk audience. Since obviously a ton of people do like Junior, I suppose you dismiss their opinion? You choose to ignore the people who equally embrace Senior and Junior? I don't follow that logic of dismissing people. Indeed, my original point was this: Junior is an important part of Country music history whether you personally like him or not, and therefore must be part of any comprehensive and accurate/representative historical telling of the genre. People -- as I allege, especially people who are rather distant from the center of Country's audience -- may complain that they had to be subjected to Junior when they watched a film, but that doesn't justify leaving Junior's important impact out of the Country story.

Gibb


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: DaveRo
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 06:37 AM

Country Music by Ken Burns review – three chords and half of the truth (The Guardian)


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,bigJ
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 05:37 AM

I just received this from my brother in the Bahamas -

"Just a quick line. I looked up the BBC4 schedule for Country Music tonight and I did a double-take as the programmes they will be showing in England are only fifty minutes long per episode. The original programmes are two hours long per episode so they have obviously severely truncated them. They are showing episode 1 and 2 tonight but each one should be two hours. BBC are advertising them as a nine part series but they are an eight part series of two hours each."

So be warned.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 07:02 AM

I like that Holly Williams song, I believe she was interviewed in the Burn's documentary.

Here's another fairly recent song worth listening to, IMO-

Let's Just Have Supper by Nora Jane Struthers and Korby Lenker.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,Jerome Clark
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 10:37 PM

Holly Williams is an extraordinary talent. She should be a lot more famous than she is. If there's any justice...


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: Stewie
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 10:22 PM

Joe, his daughter, Holly, is not bad though. I like this one - it wouldn't disappoint her granddad.

Railroads

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 09:56 PM

Jerome, I reluctantly agree about Hank Jr. I keep hoping he'll come out with something worthy of a son of Hank Williams, but he keeps disappointing me.

But on another note, Black Friday Week is coming up, and I really want to buy the Ken Burns Country Music DVDs. If anybody sees them come up at a terrific price, please post something here in this thread. It's now $74.08 for Blu-Ray at Amazon, $64.49 as DVD.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,Jerome Clark
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 09:15 PM

Actually, the notion that country was once better (and more "authentic") than it is now is hardly confined to liberal listeners. It's a widely shared view held by country fans of all political persuasions. I don't know what the correspondent above is talking about.

Rather than bash liberals as the root of all evil, your correspondent would more productively spend his time listening to older and newer country and try to understand why so many people, who may disagree about everything else, are of one mind on this particular question.

By the way, Hank Jr. is a talentless jerk.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: DaveRo
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 02:40 AM

This starts on BBC4 in the UK on Friday 22nd November:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000bhft

It hasn't, I think, appeared on PBS UK yet (which has less and less US-originated content).


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,Jerome Clark
Date: 02 Oct 19 - 08:45 PM

I agree that any time spent on Hank Williams Jr. is wasted time, never to be recovered.

I once had a cat I named Hank. A repairman who came to the house heard me address Hank, who was up to something or other, by name. He asked me, "You named your cat after Hank Williams Jr.?" to which I responded, "Hank Williams had a son?" (A subsequent cat, who's sleeping on the chair as I type, is named Robert, by the way. Another, elsewhere in the house, is Woody.)

It's not just, already bad enough, Hank Jr.'s reactionary politics and profound gun-love. It's his lack of talent and widely observed obnoxious personality. (I concede that he's always had good bands.) His son Hank3 (as he prefers to be called) is more interesting and happens, it's clear, to know something about folk music. As did his grandpa. For example, "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" is clearly a "Lonesome Dove" variant.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Oct 19 - 11:13 AM

My friend Mick said there is one big omission in the Burns doc. That of Riley Puckett,
the first yodeler in country music. He is associated with North Georgia old time music.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Oct 19 - 07:10 PM

In connection with the Ken Burns series, the Fresh Air radio program did an interview with "Ranger Doug" Green of Riders in the Sky on "The Singing Cowboy."

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/25/764227667/western-music-expert-doug-green-revisits-the-era-of-the-singing-cowboy


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,Larry W Jones - Kingwood Kowboy
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 09:40 PM

Ken Burns Country Music (Larry W Jones 09/29/2019) (song #7627)

Ken Burns country music film was a big hit everywhere
It made folks around the world wish that they were really there
Ken Burns country music film made his’try with country songs
It made folks around the world join voices and sing along

It all started in nineteen thirty three
Jimmie Rodgers and the Carter fam’ly
Recorded songs in Bristol Tennessee
And as they say the rest is history

Ken Burns country music film was a big hit everywhere

Nashville was the heart of country music
In the Great Depression and World War II
Movies fell in love with singing cowboys
Roy Acuff, Texas Swing, the Opry too

Ken Burns country music film was a big hit everywhere

Kentucky bluegrass spread from Bill Monroe
Hank Williams was the Hillbilly Shakespeare
Johnny Cash, Elvis, Patsy are no more
With Ken Burns country music they’re still here

Ken Burns country music film was a big hit everywhere

Sons and Daughters of America glowed
And the Circle was unbroken we hear
Now, Hank didn’t get above his raisin’
But if young Hank done it this way ain’t clear

Ken Burns country music film was a big hit everywhere
It made folks around the world wish that they were really there
Ken Burns country music film made his’try with country songs
It made folks around the world join voices and sing along

Ken Burns country music was a lot more than film and song


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: GUEST,guest.crowlibrarian
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 07:24 PM

I appreciate Gibb Sahib's examination of how the partisan divide affects people's appreciation of Country, or Country and Western as I still think of it. I was raised dirt poor in Oklahoma, though born in Tennessee of hillbilly Missouri Ozarks parents and this music was practicaly all I knew until I got my first transistor radio. As Burns makes clear, C&W has always been marginalized, sometimes despised, and often ridiculed by many people in the folk community and beyond, with some exceptions for old-time, bluegrass and Americana, especially among liberals. Rural vs. urban explains part of it, but much of it is class prejudice where the customs and ways of working (and rural) people are simply seen as less sophisticated and inferior. As one who went to college (the first on mom's side of the family) and became a professional, I was always aware that appreciation of other culture's rural musics was acceptable, but my peers (including my current partner) disliked our own rural music. I hope Burn's series helps to change this. Like many of you, I stopped listening to commercial country music radio by the 1980s though old country and Texas-based Americana was always present for me, but with the last episode of the series, I saw that I had missed a lot by not giving The Judds, Randy Travis, Reba McIntyre, George Strait and others a chance, for despite the tension between commercialization and authenticity that has been part of the music's history since the Ralph Peer's Bristol recordings, there were and are artists who are telling stories that are relevant to many working class and rural people, as well as those who remember those roots.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: gillymor
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 07:00 PM

I don't even know what Junior's politics are, he just comes off like a macho, loud mouth braggart to me and I don't find his music very interesting.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 06:54 PM

As "folkies," politicized accordingly, of course many of you don't like Hank Jr.

You see the worlds of "Good Country" and "Bad Country," divided mainly along the lines of political signifiers. As a recent piece discusses , people indicate through taste (the old Bourdieu "Distinction" thing, Hebdige's "Subcultures" thing) their affiliations, identity, etc. On average, Democrats prefer Starbucks and Republicans prefer Dunkin Donuts.

With Country, I've notice that some folkie-types with self-awareness negotiate this by saying that Country was good before a certain time, then spoilt by people. They can equate the "real" Country with the "original" Country, by which they mean an "earlier" Country. Typical Folk move of valorizing older things, devaluing newer.

As for contemporaneous "Good Country" and "Bad Country," where the timeline thing doesn't work: Some will treat Country in general as the Bad thing. (See, Folk... whatever that is? however it's different from Country?... is the Good.) But they reserve "Bluegrass" (a rose by another name) as Good, along with some valiant champions, in the minority, in the Country world who look like they are fighting against the Badness of Country from within. The rural quality of Bluegrass is at home in the Blue states, where it is quaint and simple and cute and authentic and nice. The rural quality of Country, from Red states, is interpreted as backwards, uneducated, scary, mean, etc.

The rural quality (the "country") is interpreted differently based on some mapping of political parties. What do you call a White American with conservative beliefs? A "Trumptard," etc. What do you call some dude in a village in India who believes in caste, supports patriarchy, is superstitiously religious? An "indigenous village elder." Aw! This is a lot of BS with respect to Country, though it's a framework of value that "outsiders" apply. The more people understand that African/American music is a foundation (not an "influence") of Country, I think, the more the partisan divide will break. When I say "people," I mean people who are not Country artists, because Country artists for the most part already know their music is Blues. Lil Nas X did a great job with his record-breaking #1 song.

Hank Jr is very important to any non-partisan history of Country. The people involved in Country music for the last 50 years equally recognize Hank (Sr.) and Bocephus (HW Jr) as deep bases of their genre.

"I ain't gonna call Hank Williams Jr. 'Junior' any more" ~ David Allan Coe, 1976


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 06:06 PM

I am not a regular follower of "country" music, but obviously.. and as it as made clear...there are connections and roots in 'folk'.
I have watched pieces of all parts of the series, most of other parts, and I have recorded them all to watch at my leisure.

   I was amazed at the research and interviews they included and fascinated at some of the 'back stories' about personalities and the history of how culture and demography were related to the music.

Of course they couldn't cover a hundred years and a few thousand artists in a few hours... and after about part 3, I predicted the remarks about people's favorites being left out or over-done or under-done. I said somewhere that 'maybe' with a one hour per week show on PBS for a year or two, they could come vaguely close... but...

   Even though 'country' is not my daily concern, I was raised in Kansas and 'country' (mostly bluegrass) was everywhere... and once the folk-scare of the 60s got rolling, it was impossible to avoid the Carter Family, Hank Williams, the rise of 'girl-singers'...etc...etc.

The Walnut Valley Festival at Winfield included a bit of everything, and I attended the first 5-6 and 2 more after moving east, so many of the musical threads discussed in the series were part of my life, even though not the Nashville centered main plots.

I think Burns and his crew did an astounding job of distilling such a complex topic into something that moved even a 'purist-snob folkie' like *I* have been referred as...

I'm gonna have a great time soaking up the details this Winter.....


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: Mossback
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 03:52 PM

Let me clarify, AFAIC any Hank Jr. is too much Hank Jr.

Amen. Or as the Pastafarians would have it, Ramen.

Junior should hook up with Ted Nugent - they could call themselves "The Fascist Duo" or "The A##hole Brothers.

Now Hank Senior- there was really something!


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 03:27 PM

I have been catching it at intervals. Damn near cried with Johnny Cash covering "The Hurt" months before he passed.

Someone remarked earlier in thread that Southern accent related to African roots. I always thought it was considered derivative of English Elizabethan accent.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: gillymor
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 02:57 PM

Let me clarify, AFAIC any Hank Jr. is too much Hank Jr.

There was some mind blowing video on the series like Louis Armstrong accompanying Cash on Blue Yodel #9 on his network TV show about 40 years after he did the same for Jimmy Rodgers on his recording of it.


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Subject: RE: PBS - Ken Burns Country Music
From: Mossback
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 01:54 PM

And yeah, way too much Hank Jr.

Aside from not being much of a singer, instrumentalist or musician, he'a also a little Trumpist piece of crap.

What's not to like?


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