BS: crash of a B-17, with fatalities

Subject: breaking news, Connecticut plane crash
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Oct 19 - 06:14 PM

A B-17 Flying Fortress is amongst several airplanes in the "Wings of Freedom" program which tours the country, and whose proceeds benefit veterans.


Today, the B-17 crashed on tour.

The crash occurred at Bradley International Airport in Connecticut.
One person on the ground at the airport was reported injured as a result of the fiery crash.

As for those on board the plane,
there were a total of thirteen people.
Seven have been confirmed dead.

The remaining six are described as "injured."
The report is too recent to name names or otherwise identify people.

Subject: RE: BS: crash of a B-17, with fatalities
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Oct 19 - 06:23 PM

The passengers on the tour flight which crashed,
included two Connecticut firefighters,
according to CNN News.

Subject: RE: BS: crash of a B-17, with fatalities
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Oct 19 - 08:05 PM

Oh, gee. We have a friend who flies a B-17 for the Experimental Aircraft Association. Hope this isn't him.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: crash of a B-17, with fatalities
From: Iains
Date: 03 Oct 19 - 04:21 AM

A very sad event and reminiscent of the WW2 Mustang crash in Galveston 6 years ago. I knew the passenger.

Subject: RE: BS: crash of a B-17, with fatalities
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Oct 19 - 03:44 PM

No links in this post; maybe links in a future post to this thread.
A quick Google search today reveals more details.


The two firefighters
were amongst those who survived the plane crash.

And so was a young man with the Air National Guard, a passenger.
He had brought his flame-retardant gloves with him for the flight.
When the crash stopped the plane's movement,
this man had his gloves on and rushed to a plane hatch,
through which he assisted his fellow survivors
to escape the crash.
After treatment at a hospital, this passenger
was released,
and is being treated at his home for burns.

Talking of burns,
one of the injured survivors was transferred from an initial hospital ER
to another facility which is a specialized burn treatment center,
and at latest report was still being cared for there;
no name released for this survivor.

Thanks to relatives of those who were killed in the crash,
more information is surfacing;
there has yet to be an official report, I believe,
which names the deceased victims.
But one relative states to the press
that all the families have been contacted,
and that all the dead have been identified at this time.

The total still stands at seven dead,
no survivors have since been reported to have died.
Some have been released from hospital,
some are still in hospital.

One poignant story has been released to the press.
A middle-aged man and his three brothers
were on the list to be passengers on this plane flight.
Unexpected complications from the business
in which all three are employed,
meant they had to cancel their places --
and, of course, it saved all four of their lives.

But they had more than one acquaintance
who did make it on to the plane flight;
and each of their acquaintances is among the dead.

Subject: RE: BS: crash of a B-17, with fatalities
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Oct 19 - 04:23 PM

How many missions were they expected to survive when they were made? Single figures at a guess.

Keeping them operational for nearly 80 years must mean that every rivet has been replaced.

Subject: RE: BS: crash of a B-17, with fatalities
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Oct 19 - 08:41 PM

This link will take you to CNN News which has several updates (scroll down) on one webpage.

Here is more information from that CNN link
and also from the New York Times.

The Air National Guardsman is
Chief Master Sergeant James Traficante, 54,
and besides his burns,
he has "broken limbs" and a "collarbone injury."

Other injured survivors include:
the airport employee injured on the ground,
Andrew Sullivan, 28.
Mitchell Melton, flight engineer, Texas,34 years,
a member of the three-man plane crew;
broken arm, broken ribs, internal injuries.

The other two members of the B-17 crew,
Ernest "Mac" McCauley, Long Beach, California, 75,
and Michael Foster, Jacksonville, Florida, 71,
both pilots,
are both presumed dead.

Among the dead passengers:
Gary Mazzone, retired police captain, Connecticut, 66.
Robert Riddell, insurance adjuster, Connecticut, 59.
Robert Rubner, Connecticut, 64.
David Broderick, Massachusetts, 65.
James Roberts, Hood Dairy Co. supervisor, Massachusetts, 48.

The two firefighters must be in the following list of injured:
Andy Barrett, Massachusetts, 36.
Joseph Huber, Connecticut, 48.
Linda Schmidt, Connecticut, 62.
Tom Schmidt, Connecticut, 62.

The investigation is ongoing.
The plane had just taken off from
Bradley International Airport,
then it turned around.
The two pilots requested permission for an emergency landing
from the control tower.
As the plane came back,
it hit roughly thirty "approach lights"
and there was a pole in there someplace,
before the plane's movement was halted
by crashing into the de-icing facility building.

Subject: RE: BS: crash of a B-17, with fatalities
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Oct 19 - 09:01 PM

It's a tragedy when there is any loss of life; doubly so if these are Joe's friends, so for that reason I hope it's a separate set of flyers.

Subject: RE: BS: crash of a B-17, with fatalities
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Oct 19 - 06:32 AM

I'm mostly impressed anybody survived. Good work by the pilots.

Subject: RE: BS: crash of a B-17, with fatalities
From: Charmion
Date: 05 Oct 19 - 10:03 AM

Flying an antique aircraft is an act in defiance of both gravity and entropy. I was once a medic on an fighter base in Germany, and you’d never get me up in one of those raised-from-the-dead war birds.

Jack Campin’s point, that a Second World War aircraft has exceeded its planned service life by decades — nay, generations! — is critical. But those who go all gooey at the sight of a Lancaster, Spitfire or B-17 in flight today should also consider how difficult they are to fly — and always were.

Modern aircraft are built on a century’s worth of design experience that has largely eliminated the vices experienced by war-time pilots, such as the torque created by radial engines that caused some aircraft to pull constantly to one side. And bombers such as the B-17 were new technology when they were built. I don’t like the idea of leaving terra firma in ancient new technology.

Here in southwestern Ontario, we are sometimes treated to the sight of the “Mynarski Lanc”, an Avro Lancaster Mk III in the colours of 6 Group Bomber Command, flown by Canadian Warplane Heritage out of Hamilton. I admire the effort and skill it represents, but I can never repress a shiver of dread whenever I see it in the air, especially over downtown Toronto.

Subject: RE: BS: crash of a B-17, with fatalities
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Oct 19 - 04:04 PM

My stepson is working at an airshow this weekend. I think he's been flying down and back at least two of the three days. The planes he flies every day are Cessnas, mostly built in the 1970s. He rarely flies a plane built after he was born in 1989. He did have an engine quit on him Thursday night, but he sputtered in to a landing and got a ride home in a car. He got home at 1:30 AM and was back at the airport at 7 the next morning.
B-17s were extremely reliable and sturdy aircraft, and they were used for civilian purposes for decades after World War II. Same with DC-3s, which are still in civilian use. But others like the B-24 ended up in the scrap heap because they never were very airworthy.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: crash of a B-17, with fatalities
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Oct 19 - 04:59 PM

In the interviews and coverage linked to in this thread,
one of the pilots --
I think it is the older of the "presumed dead" pilots in the crash --

described flying the B-17 as
'wrestling a gorilla'!

Actually it sounds like a rather macho thing to do ...
glory days and all that.

Subject: RE: BS: crash of a B-17, with fatalities
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Oct 19 - 05:28 PM

Here is a link to a news story about
the concerns about safety with these preserved aircraft.

report from Springfield, Massachusetts (not far from the Connecticut airport)

Subject: RE: BS: crash of a B-17, with fatalities
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Oct 19 - 03:54 PM

A link to a report with interviews.

Hartford (Connecticut) Courant

Subject: RE: BS: crash of a B-17, with fatalities
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Oct 19 - 04:09 PM

Further updates on surviving passengers:

a total of three injured passengers went from the crash site,
to the hospital, and then
were transferred to the
Connecticut Burn Center.

One of the three, Joseph Huber,
was admitted in critical condition;
his condition has since been upgraded from critical.
Thomas and Linda Schmidt are the other two passengers in the Burn Center.

This update is dated 8 October (today).
A Burn Center spokesperson told the press that
all three survivors are still there for treatment
and "doing well."
Two of these three, ironically, are firefighters.


One of the younger surviving passengers, Massachusetts native Andy Barrett,
is not in the Burn Center
but is still being treated.
WesternMassNews reports that a GoFundMe page has been raising funds for Barrett.
He sustained an injury to one eye, amongst other injuries,
and limited vision is returning, according to his wife.