BS: varifocal lenses

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 06:19 PM

Mrs Steve and I have a huge, old-fashioned magnifying glass in a drawer right next to our chairs. We deploy it frequently. I mean, what do we look like...

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 06:10 PM

For working close up I use my father's old Optivisor, still on sale today I notice. It is a device that has magnifying lenses on a frame with an adjustable band that you place on your head. It pivots up and down as required.
It works well for me when railway modelling etc.
For looking for splinters I use a jeweller's loupe.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Jim McLean
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 05:43 PM

Jack Campin made a good point. I can see ahead and also by looking down I can check my instruments.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 05:28 PM

That's a rather odd take on visual acuity, but hey ho.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 07:32 AM

The brighter the light, the pupils respond and the smaller part of the eyes' lenses you use. That makes vision more accurate. And contrast may be better, the eye is logarithmic and supremely adapted to cope with light levels that vary by several orders of magnitude, but there are limits.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: JHW
Date: 21 Nov 19 - 02:56 PM

Varifocal contact lenses both close and far proved to be so much worse than fixed they were easily dismissed. I wear lenses for distance, driving etc. but agree absolutely 'Ageing generally makes your lenses less able to focus for close work'. I rewired my new house in Richmond in several areas but going back to one switch a few years later could no longer see the terminal screws adequately. More light helps. But we're all different.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Nov 19 - 12:23 PM

To find what works best for you, try on different non prescription readers you see at the drug store and look for what feels good for you to accomplish this presto chango trick

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Nov 19 - 12:18 PM

A trick you can do with varifocals to see clearly close up is to put on a second pair of 'readers' over the varifocals that fit comfortably and rest on your varifocal frame. Its quick and easy compared to removal of one pair, securing those and putting on your reading glasses. It works well if you are looking at a tablet and then remove the readers to see an event on TV 10 feet away.

If you have varifocals with less than 300 magnification you won't need this trick if the reading portion of your varifocals is large enough for your taste

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Nov 19 - 11:44 AM

Driving is one of the very few situations where varifocals might improve safety - they'd help you see both traffic and your instruments, and you don't need to estimate where your feet are. So that decision is completely backwards.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Stanron
Date: 21 Nov 19 - 11:27 AM

Just had my latest pair of glasses delivered. They were ordered on the 15th and delivered today, the 21st. Six days. Cheapest wire frame, cheapest lense, no coating and I assume plastic lenses made and delivered by Glasses Direct for £33.95. I'll keep them in my camper and use them for driving only.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Nov 19 - 06:22 AM

Exactly my experience, Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Nov 19 - 03:48 AM

The Mrs has worn varifocals for years with no problems. Previous couple of times she went to a local optician who charged for various "extras" like a retinal scan and then charged loads for her glasses. This time she went to Vision Express who did all the tests for free and had half price glasses. She got polycarbonate lenses this time and although it took her a few days to get used to her new prescription she is now very pleased with them.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Nov 19 - 08:24 PM

Polycarbonate lenses achieve most of what the optical glass does but without the comparable weight.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Nov 19 - 07:57 PM

We noticed the coating on my wife's glasses was starting to bubble, then peel and flake off.
Just from gentle cleaning with a microfibre cloth...

I've got no confidence in the durability of plastic lenses,
which is another reason I've stuck with the same glasses since approx 1996...

I need a pristine lense with no scratches or blemishes,
or aberations..
As far as I can see, that'd still be optical glass...???

If it's still available at a fair price...

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Nov 19 - 07:21 PM

Scratch-resistant is standard this end at no extra cost (at least at Specsavers). Anti-glare costs extra but is a total nightmare, it attracts dirt and grease like nobody's business and seems not to do the job it's supposed to do. Reject!

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Nov 19 - 07:13 PM

There is a scratch-resistant coating put standard on the lenses I've bought over the last 20 years, but the other types of coatings like "anti-glare" are expensive and I have found them not very helpful, especially when you find yourself trying to see through glasses with permanent marks as a result of scratches on those coatings.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 20 Nov 19 - 07:00 PM

I have worn varifocals for a good few years now, and don't have any problem with them, tho the first set I had were dreadful, just tiny circles for reading at the bottom of the big lens. Since then, they've been more graduated. The coating is for scratch resistance, not anti-glare. The last pair I bought cost just over £400, so I have the one and only specs, not like some people I know who turn up with different coloured frames every day!
I broke them in a bad fall a couple of years ago - nothing to do with them being varifocals - just some a#sehole had left a large black object on a black pathway on a black night, and I tripped over it. Massive facial bruising, and still have a bump on my forehead 2 years on, broke 5th metacarpal in left hand too. But I digress: got half the purchase price of the replacement glasses back on household insurance.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Nov 19 - 03:52 PM

Are we missing a bit of clever human evolution?

I was alerted to this by an ex father in law who did close-up magic, so he probably needed to know this:

We naturally focus at distance horizontally and when looking down our eyes re-focus with a target distance of around 5 feet. It makes sense, hunter gatherers needed to detect that meal on the horizon, but seamlessly perceive the terrain at our feet as we run.
The muscles/ligaments do it naturally as our eyes (not the head) look down.

So missing that top step is also compounded by our brain factoring the evolved re-focus, and the varifocals overdoing it. IMNSHO.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 06:25 PM

I'm thinking that varifocal is what we call 'progressive' lenses in the States.

I've been getting my eyes checked and my glasses and contacts all at Costco.

I am near-sighted and astigmatic and with age I don't focus so well in the near. I've got two pairs of glasses. One is progressive and self-darkening in outdoor light and I find it is suitable for driving but doesn't actually focus as well as the smaller pair with a single prescription for distance. While the progressive lenses gave some distortion when first used, my eyes/brain seem to have been able to take that into account. I have not found them to be unsafe in normal use and in getting about.

I can use the laptop and read almost normally with no corrective lenses. If I need to read the prescription bottle's fine print then a set of cheap plastic reading glasses basically act as magnifying glasses but I don't normally need them.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 04:41 PM

Mine were about £400 for two pairs (normal specs and sunglasses) at Vision Express. The frames were half of that.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Charmion
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 03:53 PM

Nine hundred quid! Good God! At that price, Jim, you should have gold-plated corneas.

But if you're paying for seeing when otherwise you would not, it makes sense. Painfully.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Jim McLean
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 03:46 PM

I wear my varyfocals inside and outside, driving and walking, reading small type and watching the telly and have no complaints whatsoever. The price, £899, was horrendous but the best value for money I have experienced.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 02:31 PM

Charmion, I also use my office glasses at the piano, and it makes sense to take them to the library; it's almost impossible to read all of the shelves with my regular glasses - this should have occurred to me! I usually end up bent over holding my glasses up so I can see straight ahead through the magnification portion of the lens.

The anti-glare coatings they charge high dollars for seem to make the glasses hard to use once they become scratched, and that happens sooner rather than later because I do use my cotton t-shirts to clean the lenses on occasion. I have a cleaning station in the house with an old cloth diaper (cotton and relatively lint-free) and cleaning fluid, and I do that usually once a day.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 12:03 PM

Tilting the head works for me, no matter whether indoors or outdoors, and I’m not the one who keeps going arse over tit. That’s the result of thirty years of personal experience.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 09:51 AM

Real clinical research says the only way to reduce the fall risk with varifocals is not to wear them outdoors. There is no evidence that any kind of training helps at all.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Charmion
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 09:51 AM

Yeah, Steve, but you can give yourself an almighty headache. Plus, as you say, kill someone with your bad driving.

There's also the problem that you may not be doing a good job with the whole seeing where you're going thing. Going arse over tip down the stairs because you missed the top step is a bad move at our age.

I'm blind in one eye and not too clever in the other. I had a torn retina (in the good eye, of course) repaired at 49, and cataract surgery at 60-ish. I am now 65.

I have two kinds of bifocals and I'm always wearing one or the other. My normal walking-around and driving specs have a reading lens on the bottom and a long-distance lens on top; I find that I need the reading lens even while driving so I can see the dashboard controls clearly. My other specs have a middle-distance lens on top and a reading lens on the bottom. I use those for the computer and for reading music. I also take them when I go to the library so I can read the book titles without having to cock my head at an intolerable angle.

Every optometrist and opthalmologist I have seen over the last 30 years (not a small number) has strongly advised me to avoid the "gradual" type of multi-focal lenses. The useful part of the lens is not terribly large, and my visual field is already severely limited. As the bluntest of the ODs put it, I need all the visual field I can get.

As for the coatings and fancy materials, I have never found anti-glare coatings make a damned bit of difference, but the fancy materials do. The high-density lenses that cost the earth make sense for people with severe myopia who would otherwise be peering at the world through the bottom of a Coke bottle, and massaging the dents in their noses left by the weight. I know, for I was one of those people for some forty years.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 09:51 AM

lamps here that have a magnifying lens that is suspended in a way to allow me to light and magnify

The problem I had with these kind of devices is that for finicky close-up work they are not stereoscopic. Having magnifiers on both eyes somehow is easier to locate and do things like place an instrument. eg soldering iron or assembling watch springs.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 09:13 AM

That's true, but, as I indicated, you can't hurt your eyes if you wear specs that are the wrong prescription or just plain poor quality, or if you don't wear them at all when you really should. You'll just get eye strain (muscles which control your eyes, not your seeing bits) or kill someone with your driving.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 07:45 AM

Worn varifocals for many years, always paid for the ‘best’ lenses, never had any kind of problem. The secret with varifocals is to move your head to use the correct part of the lens - tilting the head well forward to look through the ‘distance’ part is the way to prevent the feeling of the floor (or steps) ‘coming up to meet you, and thereby avoiding falls.

I’m always surprised that people are so tight-arsed where taking care of their vision is concerned - you only get one pair of eyes, you need to take very good care of them.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 07:16 AM

I wouldn't ever consider wearing them.

Fall risk

I've seen my wife fall several times in situations where there shouldn't have been any risk. She won't give them up because they seem convenient. I just carry three single-focus pairs around.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 05:39 AM

Should've gone to Specsavers!


Seriously, for decades my mum went to the same opticians in Bury out of sheer loyalty and was paying upwards of three hundred quid every time she got new specs. When we moved her down here last year we signed up her with Specsavers. The optometrist, who had to cope with my ancient mum's stone deafness, was lovely with her (I went in with her). The prescription was spot on and we got her two very nice pairs of specs for a smidgeon over a hundred quid for both (their two-for-one offer was on at the time). On top of that we got a gold ticket that gave ME 25% off me next pair!

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Mo the caller
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 05:29 AM

I used to use cheap reading glasses, but since my eyes are older now and not the same as each other and I have astigmatism they are useless.
The prices I was quoted were £299, £499, or £599 for lenses, + frames (which she knocked £20 off as I was dithering between the cheaper & dearer ones) + coating.
The cheque was cashed very quickly too.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 04:13 AM

I could not cope with varifocals, I use too much periferal vision and it was maddeningly blurred.
I use good old bifocals and have one pair for distance and reading and another pair distance and computer.

My wife uses some varifocals contact lenses, but usually only in one eye with a distance only contact lens in the other.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Helen
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 09:26 PM

I feel your pain, pfr. In Oz, we still have Medicare until the pollies and their accountants figure out a way to delete it, I suppose, although the Oz health care system is a bit of a national pride thing, I think, so it might be safe unless a yellow-haired pollie takes over.

Next question, do you forget to fix your guitar (or car) or is that a high enough priority to move it up your to-do list?

I should stop winding you up, eh? My Dad was a motor mechanic so I tend to worry more about keeping the car going and procrastinate on going for health checks.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 08:49 PM

I got my bowel cancer kit today as it happens. I suppose the staff who have to analyse the samples are bored. Just going through the motions really.

You can get a free eye test as you're over sixty. I've been sorted by a lot of different optometrists and have had unfailingly good results. Get thee to Specsavers. You don't have to get your specs with them and they have to give you your prescription.

Dentists are a right bugger. But if you can sign up with an NHS dentist a checkup will cost you a few quid under twenty. Once a year I reckon is good enough for most people.

Wearing bad specs, or no specs when you should be, doesn't have a deleterious effect on your eyesight.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 08:38 PM

Close screwing (which gives me problems too) was sufficiently self-contained as a complete corset-buster and needed no further input from me, which might have tainted the pure levity of the thing. I have a feeling that pfr simply isn't a man of vision...

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 08:00 PM

Helen - That was a deliberate feed line for Steve..
I'm surprised he resisted...
Perhaps he didn't have his reading glasses on...???


Am I a typical bloke yes.. and no...

I'm probably better informed, and aware of health issues and best practice for looking after myself,
than an average bloke.
I don't think I'm superhuman and invulnerable.
So I'm definitely not in denial...
I am fully aware of risk and consequences.
But having said that, I can be just as forgetful, stubborn, and stupid as a blokey bloke...

For instance my bowel cancer test kit is still in it's evelope,
I keep meaning to do it,
but out of sight out of mind...
That's not an excuse, or bravado, just simple stupidity.
I even phoned up for a replacement when I couldn't find the one I got for my 60th birthday.
I might need to phone for another...???

.. and that's a completely free NHS test, absolutely no dent to my pocket.
Money is not the issue with this.
I just get distracted and forget...

I also need to go for my regular blood pressure/ urine, etc MOT checkup - I will go,
but again, get overwhelmed by the new problems each day presents,
and forget...
..then there's booking a flu jab to remember..

Right then, moving on to dentists and opticians...
I grew up under a free NHS,
I have stubborn political principles..
I begrudge paying a small fortune for private optical and teeth care
being ripped off by dishonest/incompetent/ corporate opticians and dentists...
I seriously despise them.
I don't trust any of them since they were privatised...
Shoddy work, at extortionate prices, has been my all too frequent experience since the early 1980s...

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Helen
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 07:12 PM

Just one question, pfr. Are you a typical bloke exhibiting signs of medical - or in this case, opthalmological - denial? Denial doesn't make conditions go away, although if you wait long enough your sight issues may perhaps "disappear" because you won't be able to SEE them any more. LOL

I figured out a long time ago that a typical bloke will prioritise spending more time, energy, money and resources on keeping a car or other obsessions like a guitar in tip-top working order than he will on keeping his own body working.

And Steve must really respect you a lot otherwise I'm sure he would have cracked a joke about your problem with "close screwing". :-D

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 06:26 PM

I’ve had one like this for a few years, SRS. I suppose it is a bit clumsy and it doesn’t get much use but I get a good clear view of what I’m trying to do with it and I’d not be without some type of magnifying light. Uses have included repairing small rc copters when I was playing with (and breaking) them as well as for bits of soldering.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 04:02 PM

I have a couple of lamps here that have a magnifying lens that is suspended in a way to allow me to light and magnify what I'm working on. Have you tried any of those?

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 02:30 PM

I don't think I've seen any with popout lenses...I'll keep an eye on it...

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 01:36 PM

Steve - depending on the difference in eyes,
I'd buy two different dioptre reading glasses,
and pop out and swap the correct combination...???

If the glasses are moulded all in one with undetachable lenses,
saw them at the bridge, swap, and superglue...???

Depends, I've not seen chaep reading glassses with stronger lenses than 3.5
if I remeber correctly...

I did check ebay amazon for cheap Chinese knck off copy optician test glasses
with intrechangable lenses were,
but cant remember the pricing..
Obviously too expensive then..

I think DIY store sell something like that...???

But It's years since I last checked..

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Helen
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 01:35 PM

I have used what is known in Oz as Access lenses, which I am assuming is the same as progressive lenses, for about 30 years.

The first time I was given bifocal lenses, which have a close focus range in the centre and further away at the edges, I tried them on and said I can't use these. When I tried to read a book I had to move my head side to side for every single line on the page. I'm talking about a small paperback, not a big coffee table sized book. Reading is essential for me. My head would have fallen off my neck within a few weeks from over-use.

At the time I was teaching at the TAFE (technical colleges) at night so in class my major needs were to be able to read from a book or page and look up to see the class, and I also needed to have a computer range of vision. The optometrist people were very good. No arguments. They replaced the bifocals with the Access lenses and I have been happy with them ever since.

I have needed reading glasses for about 40 years, but never for distance, so my prescription is plain on the top/highest level, computer in the middle line and reading on the lowest line. I don't have to move my head up and down. I did push my computer back a bit further than most people but only by a few inches.

A couple of years ago my vision went to the dogs because I had cataracts. I was driving to and from work in the next town 20 miles away and I was getting quite worried about my vision and also wherever I was, the slightest glare was really making it difficult to see. I was fast-tracked to getting the cataract operations and "never looked back since". It's fantastic.

The operations were a breeze - for me, the patient. And I could see perfectly within a day or so. I could opt for artificial lenses focused to near or distant vision so, as my distant vision has always been excellent I opted for that and still use my Access lenses for reading and computer work.

When Hubby was driving me to the doctor's surgery the day after the first operation for the first review, I looked up at a hill way over on the horizon and could see a pine tree and all the branches. I nearly cried with joy because it had been harder and harder for me to see things over time and I was used to seeing things as a blur. I tell people that I knew the problem needed to be fixed when I couldn't read a number plate on a car only one car-length in front of me. I said I was worried that I was a "danger to self and others on the road".

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 01:23 PM

Me too. Ageing generally makes your lenses less able to focus for close work. The optician tells me that my eyes are in good nick but the deterioration for doing close-up stuff, not just reading, has become very noticeable. But my eyes are way too different for pound shop reading specs to be any use.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 12:41 PM

Steve - my problem, a real problem now, is up close screwing...

Guitars have such fiddly parts, that need adjusting,
and I can no longer see well enough with my glasses to do it..

I've tried clip on plastic jewelers lenses - not great,
but bettter than nothing..
Strongest dioptre cheap reading glasses over my glasses - well it sort of works,
if I can remember where I last put them...

But I usually resort to taking my glasses off,
and getting my eyes too close up to the job for sensible health and safety..
Must buy another pair of protective goggles..

I've considered contact lenses for general use..
[wearing reading glasses over them..]
but suspect my short sight might be too much to correct,
or I'll be allergic...
Or they'll be great, but I can't afford them...???

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 12:28 PM

The anti-glare coating applied to specs is a nightmare. You don't need it and it attracts dirt like a magnet.

In most cases, if you have both lenses replaced because of cataracts you will be fine with cheap reading glasses, which have the same lens strength on each side, which is a good match for your new eyes. If like me your eyes are very different, cheap reading glasses are no use. That's why I had prescription reading glasses made.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 11:24 AM

I see £899.00..
my mind converts that to Gibson,Fender, Gretch, etc guitar...
The reason why I've still not purcheased new glasses since approx 1996...

I planned on getting an eyetest when I turned 60.
My mind was made up, I know the sense in it,
I've got to get it done - my eyesight is too precious..
Then I saw a sale price on a Ltd Edition Gibson Les Paul.
The ideal 60th birthday present to myself...

oh well...

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 11:16 AM

The higher-priced version of the no-line glasses give a much wider field of vision (you can move your eyes, not have to move your head to see out of them). But the price is a killer.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Jim McLean
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 11:11 AM

After years of switching between glasses for reading and TV viewing I finally got a pair of varyfocals, Seiko lenses.
It cost me £899.00 with all the various eye scans etcetera but it has been the best purchase of my life. They are extremely light and I was initially very surprised in the shop when I could look anywhere and see perfectly well by just tilting my head slightly.
When driving, I have to make sure I don't slouch and sit upright.
I'm a very happy person.By the way I'm just over 81.

Subject: RE: BS: varifocal lenses
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 10:58 AM

A dozen years ago now I realized my neck was so stiff at work because I was sitting with my head tipped back to see the computer screen through the lower part of my bifocals. The optician writes me two Rxs now, one for "Office Glasses" that have a focal plane about 18" straight in front and a bifocal lined part to see the tabletop where my keyboard and papers sit. (I tried "computer glasses" with just the 18" plane and had to take them off to see the desktop).

I have my regular distance and near glasses as bifocals because the "hourglass" focal area in the "no-line" glasses was too small (as mentioned above, it messes with your eye/brain connection). I was talking to a friend one day and he asked if I had the no-line glasses. I answered yes and asked why - it turned out I was bobbing my head around trying to figure out what part of the glasses to look through to see him as we talked.

The glasses that turn dark in bright sunlight, those are very expensive at the optometrist, but purchased online they're affordable. There's also a racket going on with insurance, and I tested it one day. My optometrist's glasses side of the business charges customers with insurance "full price" (what ever that is - what the market will bear, it seems) but people who walk in off the street with no insurance get half-price. So I made the glasses clerk do the math for me. With insurance, my bill was going to be close to $400 by the time they charged me for the more durable lightweight polycarbonate lenses (versus simple plastic) and the frame allowance never covers the entire cost, etc. Then she did it if I was purchasing with out insurance, and the difference was $5. So basically they get a lot more from their insured customers because we're paying full price AND they get money from the insurance company. And no one has busted them for the practice.

I still go there to get my vision exam, but I will never buy glasses from them. I sometimes take in an old pair and have new plastic lenses (covered) put in them. This is how I usually get Rx sunglasses. I have the next sunglasses in mind for the last frames from of regular distance glasses; the last sunglasses I had made were in a frame a little small and too much light gets in around the sides.

A long but hopefully helpful dissertation on the vagaries of American glasses production.