BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread

Subject: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 09:51 AM

Rather than continue to use another thread I thought I would start this as it will probably run for some time.

Johnson's government has already had some bad news regarding it's pledges to reduce tax over this parliament.

I would suggest this is the first of many pledges that will rescinded, ignored, denied etc etc over the next five years.
Tax plans face squeeze

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: Iains
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 10:43 AM

Oh the bells of hell go ting a-ling a-ling for you but not for me......

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 01:00 PM

Um, have any been kept?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 01:20 PM

There goes another

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 02:32 PM

You know when we were joking about Boris going to have the shortest time as PM ever...

well...

But how long do you think before the inevitable back stabbings and leadership challenges...???

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 03:59 PM

In view of the success that the backroom people have achieved for him, Cummings and his ilk, I reckon he probably could have best part of a year ............. then the knifes will come out.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:35 PM

He'll have his five years. I've had to reconcile meself for most of my life that the country will be ruled by Tory scum who enrich their own and shit on the working classes. The only difference this time is that we have the disaster of brexit, but that will unfold slowly only. Labour has to take a very sharp look at itself, perhaps ditching the best potential leader (Ms Long-Bailey by a country mile), as anyone "tainted" by Jezza will be dumped on from on high by the ignoranti of the Mail and its demented readers.

Go, Jess...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:43 PM

I'm sorry folks, my prediction is from observing, disinterestedly, the man's career. Not any form of wishing!

Boris is a survivor. He is a buffon, a blunderer, a clown, a chancer, a turncoat. He will say many things to achieve his goal. Because it has worked, he will be emboldened.

But he is a survivor. And a lucky one at that. Had he been up against a far more personable (and pragmatic) leader of his opposition, things might have been different.

At the end of the day, politicians have to promise to get elected, and the reality turns out to be more difficult. But that shouldn't stop us chiding them for being brash.

The knives are always out, but they are blunted by Borish having delivered for the party.

If you want Borish gone, be prepared for the long haul. Though E&OE - we ARE living in interesting times. Lay your bets, but make them small!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 07:12 PM

One opinion is Boris pays lip service to his plea for reconciling the divisions.
Proving new working class voters can trust him,
by slightly softening austerity,
as he now has the power to keep the far right tories at bay.

Another opinion is the far right grab the power off Boris asap...
Allowing 5 years for them to asset strip and sell off and the UK to USA corporations.
Making as much quick big dosh as they can before the next election
when the North changes it's mind and boots them out...???

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 07:20 PM

Now Game of Thrones is over,
It's either The Witcher on Netflix, or the tories in government
to fulfill our needs for ruthless blood-thirsty melodramatic entertainment...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 09:40 AM

In some ways I prefer him to stay in power for five years. Because the only things likely to dislodge him are major problems with the Brexit deal for which he would be made the scapegoat "for negotiating a bad deal/failing to negotiate a deal" (delete one according to circumstances.) And I do not wish such problems on anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 10:12 AM

From DMcG on another thread today:

""Lower courts can roll back EU laws after Brexit, No 10 confirms"

It will be interesting to see how this one plays out. The reason given is that the Government does not want roll back of these laws to be stuck in the Supreme Court due to it being overloaded. But surely if such a law is (or is not) repealed by a lower court, in many cases this will immediately lead to the judgement itself being appealed? Which will, ultimately, end up at the Supreme Court anyway?   The only way I can see of avoiding that is to find some way of limiting the appeal process, which is itself a substantial reduction in citizen's rights."

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 09:47 AM

Anyone actually surprised by the article below:

"Government suggests planned national living wage increase could be shelved if economy falters
When Sajid Javid, the chancellor, told the Tory conference in September that the government would raise the national living wage to £10.50 an hour over five years, that sounded like a clear commitment. It was in the manifesto (pdf) too as a promise about what would happen under a Conservative government, not something that might happen.

But now an element of doubt seems to be creeping in. As the government briefing document (pdf) on the Queen’s speech reveals, the national living wage increase will only take place “provided economic conditions allow”. This implies that, in the event of a recession, the rise won’t go ahead. The document says:

The chancellor has pledged that the national living wage will increase, reaching two-thirds of median earnings within five years (projected to be around £10.50 an hour in 2024), provided economic conditions allow."

No, thought not.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 09:59 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejo2Kc4-PXw

Howsabout Emily then?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 10:12 AM

Commentary on the newly published Withdrawal Agreement Bill:

"Boris Johnson will use his new majority to strip commitments to negotiate arrangements to reunite child asylum seekers with family after Brexit. Original amendment to EUWA was driven by campaigner Lord Dubs."

And:

The original bill had a long clause, clause 31, titled “Oversight of negotiations for future relationship”. It said the government could not engage in negotiations on the future relationship with the EU unless a statement setting out the negotiating objectives had been passed by MPs. That clause has gone.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 10:23 AM

Can anyone explain why the SHADOW foreign secretary is even mentioned in a thread about broken GOVERNMENT promises?

No thought not.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 10:23 AM

That clause has gone.

Hey ho. When you have a majority you can do your own thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 10:25 AM

surely if such a law is (or is not) repealed by a lower court,

AFAIK, long un-repealed laws are not necessarily law. Any new law, that effectively** supercedes an old law, makes the old law null and void. Didn't "Time Immemorial" establish that precedent?
Of course, if parliament now rushes through new laws and doesn't debate the full implications they becomes a lawyers' cash cow.

**You know the old saying "laws are made by lawyers", it was so true in the days when so many barristers could lawyer in the morning and play at being MPs in the afternoon. It is a moot point whether less barristers in parliament means less ambiguous laws or moreso!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 10:49 AM

I wasn't clear then, I think, Mr Red. If a case is brought to a lower court to decide whether some law originating from the EU applies, then whoever they decide for, the other side is likely to appeal.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 10:54 AM


That clause has gone.

Indeed. It was a clause put in as a promise to someone (eg Lord Dubs) which has been dropped. It is therefore a broken promise and it is perfectly fitting that it appears on this thread.

Hey ho. When you have a majority you can do your own thing.

Yes, you can break any promises you have made. Which is, we note, what this thread is about.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 11:28 AM

Yes, you can break any promises you have made. Which is, we note, what this thread is about.”

And which, of course, our PM has achieved a certain notoriety for.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 04:25 AM

One of the oft repeated mantras of the government (and Brexiteers in particular) is that we should "take back control"

Isn't it shameful then when the government allows the sale of a major contractor of UK defence and military technology to an American company.

As the daughter in law of the companies founder said "This is a deeply disappointing announcement and one cynically timed to avoid scrutiny on the weekend before Christmas .....In one of its first major economic decisions, the government is not taking back control so much as handing it away."

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 04:27 AM

Cobhams

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 05:07 AM

Isn't it shameful then when the government allows the sale of a major contractor of UK defence and military technology to an American company

As a PLC Cobham can do what it likes. Under the Glorious Consrvatives the government is powerless to prevent it unless on security grounds.
Free movement of capital and all that!

Commie compos winter wonderland of full on nationalization did not come to pass. Remember?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 05:17 AM

Someone obviously cannot understand the written word, as my link opened with:

"'Handing control away': UK's sale of Cobham defence firm to US company decried
Founding family criticises approval of £4bn deal despite NATIONAL SECURITY CONCERNS" *

* My capitals.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 05:34 AM

The concerns are obviously groundless or the sale would have been vetoed. Pretty obvious to me- Why not for you....???????

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 05:41 AM

As the daughter in law of the companies founder said:

"This is a deeply disappointing announcement and one cynically timed to avoid scrutiny on the weekend before Christmas .....In one of its first major economic decisions, the government is not taking back control so much as handing it away."

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 06:01 AM

It is not within the government's remit to stop the sale. More false news off poor LOSERS!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 06:52 AM

lower court to decide whether some law originating from the EU applies, then whoever they decide for, the other side is likely to appeal.

Like I said, lawyers cash-cow. Not a specific thing I had in mind when I tried to point out, in this parish, that Brexshit would throw-up all sorts of sick (sic). But in my broad generalisation, yes. Because change always throws curved balls. Balls being very apposite.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 07:01 AM

It is not within the government's remit to stop the sale. you are of course totally wrong as usual.

The government does what the fuck it likes. You gave it that permission when you voted. It can decide either way in this instance, but chooses as it has chosen. It can make laws if necessary. It does and has many times. Whatever the turn of the coat the PM decided. Currently there are a lot of more significant repercussions hanging on their choices, and it will mostly impact those wot didn't vote for the current excrescence in Westminster.


Note to trolls of this parish, no colour was ascribed to any government(s) herein so described.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 08:45 AM

The government does what the fuck it likes.

This does get tedious

EU Charter of Fundamental Rights
Article 1 of Protocol No.
Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law.
Further
Article 17 - Right to property
1. Everyone has the right to own, use, dispose of and bequeath his or her lawfully acquired possessions. No one may be deprived of his or her possessions, except in the public interest and in the cases and under the conditions provided for by law, subject to fair compensation being paid in good time for their loss. The use of property may be regulated by law in so far as is necessary for the general interest.

A PLC is a legal person (Corporate personhood is the legal notion that a corporation, separately from its associated human beings (like owners, managers, or employees), has at least some of the legal rights and responsibilities enjoyed by natural persons.[1] In the United States and most countries, corporations have a right to enter into contracts with other parties and to sue or be sued in court in the same way as natural persons or unincorporated associations of persons Courtesy of wiki.A Nation can invoke Article 346 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU, which allows any government “to take such measures as it considers necessary for the protection of the essential interests of its security”.

This means the UK can subsidise an industry, or prevent the sale on security grounds. If security is not seen to be an issue by the government of the day then it cannot prevent the sale of an independent company

As usual lefties bend, distort, and outright lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 08:49 AM

EU Charter of Fundamental Rights

Oh the irony.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 08:57 AM

And article 346. Ditto the irony.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 08:58 AM

Yeah lefties like the Daily Mail.


Mail article

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 12:06 PM

You may have all noticed the closure of the other two threads. Thank you for that SRS. I agree we only need one Polit-UK thread and, considering it will all be broken pledges from now on, this should be it.

Play nice :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Dec 19 - 05:43 AM

Make of this what you will ............... one nation? ..... yer right.


Link

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 23 Dec 19 - 08:58 AM

More post deletions. Is posting the truth too uncomfortable for some?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Dec 19 - 09:35 AM

I don't think so.

Flamers and Trolls are dealt with by the moderation team though.

With particular reference to -

flame bait
An intentionally inflammatory posting in a newsgroup or discussion group designed to elicit a strong reaction thereby creating a flame war.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Dec 19 - 09:42 AM

And from the same link. Something that I keep reminding others of

I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it many times more: the best way to deal with both flamers and trolls is to ignore them. Give them silence, and they'll go away. They feed on attention - don't give it to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 03:23 AM

Back to the thread topic.

Police support staff cuts

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 06:38 AM

Boris has got the perfect amswer, ' everybody knows I'm a liar, so what did you expect ? what's the problem ? '

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 08:12 AM

Crying over spilt milk.

I read somewhere that if Farage's gang of nutters had not stood the tories would have clinched another 20 seats.

that's the pay off for having your fun . three and a half years of gratuitous insults. Telling people they were idiots who understood nothing.

nationalisation, repatriation of IS - even as they were doing murder on the streets of the capital (that was our fault for waging war against saddam Hussain) etc Brilliant stuff guys ...take a bow!

Everything the tories do to us will be YOUR fault.... you knew what the consequences of losing were, and you gave nary a fuck.

the wrongness of your approach is on statistical record, and you are still unrepentantly laying down the law.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 08:21 AM

Big Al. When the eejits have spent their compulsory 40years in the wilderness there is a slender chance they may begin to understand.
Meanwhile the sane majority continue celebrating the tremendous defeat of the remainiac lefties. It is even more satisfying to realize no one is, has, or will listen to them!
Luvvin it!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 08:38 AM

”By means of ever more effective methods of mind-manipulation, the democracies will change their nature; the quaint old forms -- elections, parliaments, Supreme Courts and all the rest -- will remain. The underlying substance will be a new kind of non-violent totalitarianism. All the traditional names, all the hallowed slogans will remain exactly what they were in the good old days. Democracy and freedom will be the theme of every broadcast and editorial [...]. Meanwhile the ruling oligarchy and its highly trained elite of soldiers, policemen, thought-manufacturers and mind-manipulators will quietly run the show as they see fit.”

Aldous Huxley, Brave New World Revisited, 1958

Sound familiar? It should - it’s already happened, and the Right will ensure it continues. The evidence is in the two previous posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 08:56 AM

If IDS gets a knighthood, Corbynistas should get an Iron Cross with oak leaves (services to the Tories)

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 09:18 AM

THIS is more popular/important than your priorities.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 10:16 AM

Al, the only people to blame for the Tory victory are those who voted for the Tories. Your posts are sounding more and more like those of the resident right wing plants. Your blaming of the EU for the loss of the car industry, blaming East Europeans for crime and blaming free movement for the running down of the NHS are arguments straight from the front pages of the Daily Heil.

Now, it has already been established that invective and flame bait will achieve nothing but deletions and thread closures. If you wish to argue for Tory policies, feel free. I suggest though that you stick to verifiable facts. That way there may be some hope that this thread may continue to be a vehicle to expose broken pledges and lies in civilised manner rather than becoming a platform for hate speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 10:50 AM

Now, it has already been established that invective and flame bait will achieve nothing but deletions and thread closures.

I can find thousands of posts from the lefties that give the lie to that statement. They have still not been deleted!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 11:03 AM

I repeat my earlier link on dealing with Flamers and Trolls

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 11:05 AM

Well now why don't you just toddle off and find them all. No rush back until you've done it. And don't come back until you've found at least two thousand. "Thousands" can't be any less than that, you know. As you never have anything constructive or remotely sensible to say, that's the best suggestion I have for keeping you mercifully quiet and relieving us of your profound stupidity. Hope this helps.