BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure

Subject: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 05:48 PM

It has no Taurine and causes heart failure in older dogs.

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 07:31 PM

And? Links? History?

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 07:41 PM

sorry, I saw it on the NBC local news

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 08:08 PM

News Article

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 10:16 PM

I see it listed in my dog food. I suppose I'll have to read up and do some math and see if it's sufficient. My Lab has wheat allergies and also the chicken grease that is used in a lot of dog foods. The girls get a different one just because they all used to eat it until I put the lab on a senior brand. It's a high-end store brand from Tractor Supply.

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 05:54 AM

Taurine is only found in meat, not in grains. It makes no sense for leaving grain out of dog food to cause a deficiency. Somebody's got the story backwards.

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 12:06 PM

...and BWL's link gives a 403 from Cloudfront.

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 12:12 PM

Here's an excerpt:

According to the FDA, hundreds of dogs have gotten the same diagnosis, some even died because they were eating grain free dog food.

"We know that there's a link between grain-free food and specifically foods that have lentils and peas and maybe sweet potatoes in them," said Ryan Carpenter, a veterinarian for Family Friends Veterinary Hospital. "So those foods are causing dilated cardiomyopathy."

Dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) is a genetic condition in dogs, typically seen in large or giant breeds like Doberman Pinscher, Great Dane, the Irish Wolfhound and Cocker Spaniels. It's disease of the cardiac muscle that results in decreased ability of the heart to generate enough pressure through the vascular system.

"Over the last year, there's been more knowledge about it," Carpenter continued. "So, we're looking for pets that may be on a grain-free diet, screening them and paying close attention to what's going on with them."

In July 2018, the FDA opened an investigation into the potential link between grain-free food and heart failure in dogs. The FDA found that grain-free foods blocked the absorption of taurine, a significant amino acid needed for a dogs heart to function.

"It's a micronurtrient that allows the heart to pump normally," Carpenter explained. "And it's not something that we think of on a daily basis -- about taking taurine -- but it's there in micro amounts that causes a lot of help."

In addition to finding the taurine link, the FDA also discovered certain breeds of dogs are affected more.

Labrador retrievers, mixed breeds and Golden Retrievers top the list.

Here is a list of the dog food brands associated with the FDA investigation:

Acana
Zignature
Taste of the Wild
4Health
Earthborn Holistic
Blue Buffalo
Nature's Domain
Fromm
Merrick
California Natural
Natural Balance
Orijen
Nature's Variety
NutriSource
Nutro
Rachael Ray Nutrish

4Health is my dogfood, but it has Taurine in the list of ingredients.

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 12:27 PM

What is Taurine
It helps muscle function, may aid athletic performance and endurance, helps reduce anxiety, and appears to aid blood sugar regulation and cardiac health. It's an organic molecule (not an amino acid) named for the Latin taurus, which means ox or bull because originally taurine was extracted from bull semen and ox bile.

No Bull
Although there is taurine in bull semen, this is not the source of the ingredient in Red Bull or other products that contain the molecule, such as baby formula and cosmetics.

Taurine is found in other animal tissues including the human intestine, breast milk, meat, and fish. However, chemical processes can make taurine from other source molecules in much the same way your body does. Specifically, taurine may be synthesized by reacting aziridine with sulfurous acid or from a series of reactions starting with ethylene oxide and sodium bisulfite.

So Jack the most likey source of your backwards theory probably comes from the attempt to spend the least by the dog food manufacturer and their marketing dept.

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 12:33 PM

But... dogs in the wild wouldn't be eating grain would they? Just hunting meaty animals and tearing the flesh/crunching the bones for food.
In fact, 'grain' has only been around when humans started farming.
This is so interesting. (And forgive me for commenting, as I'm ignorant about dogs - never owned one, although I do love them!)

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 02:29 PM

Kitties need taurine even more. For people and cats its good for the eyes.

I am guessing but 'grain free' might refer to no rice more than things like wheat or barley which do seem odd for dogs. Its not all intuitive since dogs can eat some potatoes but cucumbers are deadly

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 03:59 PM

A diet of fresh babies would suit any dog just fine and would also be grain free.

The problem is not with the absence of grain, but the presence of taurine-blocking anti-nutrients. And lazy journalism.

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 04:14 PM

What are the anti nutrient/nutriants that block the organic molecule taurine? :^/

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 04:24 PM

One can follow the money in politics but not in organic chemistry.

Anyone remember when China added Melamine to dog food and baby formula with deadly results? Melamine tested like milk. The perpetrators were executed.

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 05:43 PM

There are several different mechanisms for anti-nutrients to stop taurine getting to where it's needed. It's not clear yet which ones matter most.

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 06:23 PM

I've just looked up information about taurine for cats, and apparently it's present in chicken legs, beef, offal and seafood, plus 'high end' cat food such as Purina. We used to give our cats all these foods in rotation, and they all lived long lives.

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 07:10 PM

... thus, Senoufou/Eliza, the old term
"cat's-meat man," which I first read in
Mister God, This is Anna,
an account of growing up in London.
I had never seen that term before.

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 05:45 AM

We feed our Dreamy on Burns dry food which we by from Amazon with Chappie as recommended.

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 09:53 AM

If I had a dog or cat I'd want to see what the FDA results are, not that they're "investigating." While waiting I'd check myself and do what I thought best.

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 10:00 AM

And dogs -- even wolves -- have long been know to eat plants. Why they do this isn't really known, but they do (no, it doesn't automatically make they vomit).

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 11:13 AM

Ha yes keberoxu, the cats' meat man was a common sight especially in East London. He got his bits of meat from the slaughtermen (Mostly offal, fat and gristle I expect)
Foxes eat fruit and some plants. I can vouch for this, as the foxes who passed through our garden in the last house left droppings with seeds and undigested stems in.

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 11:38 AM

In Colorado we used to feed our dog horse meat that was delivered in dry ice.

Subject: RE: BS: Grain free dog food - heart failure
From: leeneia
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 01:55 PM

In my experience, it's a good idea to avoid any product with a name like Earthborn Holistic or California Natural.

When I had cats, I bought Iams and Science Diet foods from the vet. They cost more per pound, but the cats ate less of them. Their litter boxes were less stinky, because the good foods did not irritate their GI tracts and give them near-diarrhea.