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BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Steve Shaw Date: 30 Jan 22 - 06:09 PM One of the things we need to do, Kevin, is to assess the different ways in which countries measure COVID-19 deaths. That is not to say that I want to minimise our rotten record, but comparing like for like is pretty important. I've said before that measuring excess deaths over what would normally be expected on a seasonal basis would be one informative measure, though it would by no means tell the whole story. An interesting statistic I saw somewhere last week is that approximately half the people in hospital with COVID-19 were actually admitted for something else. I also note that the Beeb, for the last week or more, has been qualifying the "deaths within 28 days of a positive covid test" by saying that some of those may have died of other causes. It took the Beeb at least 18 months to come up with that entirely appropriate caveat. I had the misfortune to have to spend the day today in A&E in Barnstaple. For several hours I had to watch a silent TV screen that was giving out lots of covid messages. The one that struck me most of all was given by a doctor who was showing us that almost everyone seriously ill in his hospital wards was unvaccinated. That's the kind of message we need to being going large with. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Steve Shaw Date: 30 Jan 22 - 06:11 PM Seriously ill with covid-19, obviously. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 31 Jan 22 - 08:52 AM It'll be years before that kind of stuff will be sorted out about comparative figures. In fact I Rather doubt they ever will be. But it's pretty clear our record is pretty bad. I agree that the most important statistic is the one that you quoted about most seriously ill with covid being unvaccinated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Donuel Date: 31 Jan 22 - 12:07 PM My country has a half million dead from a self inflicted wound that was inspired by Trump and big government propoganda which is paid for by the corporate private golf club types. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Backwoodsman Date: 31 Jan 22 - 01:10 PM ”My country has a half million dead from a self inflicted wound that was inspired by Trump and big government propoganda which is paid for by the corporate private golf club types.” Don’t forget the NRA types… |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Mr Red Date: 31 Jan 22 - 02:01 PM I thought the total deaths for the last 2 years in the US was 750,000 plus. Fauci doesn't exaggerate, surely? Anyway there are researchers calling for proper trials following statistics that hint that CBD can lesson the impact of COVID. Not a miracle cure, in fact the scientist interviewed was quick to point out vaccines, masks, social distance etc, were the primary line of defence. CBD is known to be an anti-inflamatory, and that will be the focus of research. MSNBC video And before anyone jumps to the conclusion about marijuana, the answer is NO. THC inhibits the action of the CBDs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 31 Jan 22 - 03:15 PM As of today: WorldOMeter - a site I haven't seen before. [907,956] CDC Data Tracker [879,971] A difference of about 28,000 between these two sites. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Donuel Date: 01 Feb 22 - 02:58 PM I don't count the 300-500 thousand deaths that was pre vaccine and the early Trump fairy tales of denials. All the people who got the mandatory 4 vaccines for their kids to go to school and now believe in the facebook vaccine myths are more than confused. That we now bypass incubating virus in 'dirty' chicken eggs, with the mrna method we are actually a whole lot safer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Steve Shaw Date: 02 Feb 22 - 04:47 AM Professor Ajit Lalvani at Imperial College is involved in intriguing research on natural immunity to covid-19. He was on the Today programme on BBC Radio 4 (at about 8.37 am UK time). He has been investigating people who have been in close contact with infected people (for example, in the same household) but who don't develop the infection. He found that some of those people had memory T-cells effective against covid-19 that could have been generated by previous exposure to common cold coronaviruses (around a fifth of common colds are caused by coronaviruses). The picture is not at all black and white, but there is the basis for further promising research that could, conceivably, lead to a new generation of vaccines that would be variant-proof. Watch that space. You can google his name and include the word "covid" to get several references. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Donuel Date: 02 Feb 22 - 05:47 AM Regarding NRA types, they are now becoming 'rule by bomb threat types'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Mrrzy Date: 02 Feb 22 - 07:18 AM Nice news, Steve Shaw. I had not seen that yet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Donuel Date: 02 Feb 22 - 08:28 AM rare natural immunity |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Donuel Date: 02 Feb 22 - 08:47 AM Dr. Fauci has tried to develop a general vaccine for the base protiens in the flu virus for decades without success. I will never say it can't be done. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Steve Shaw Date: 02 Feb 22 - 08:57 AM That's a better listen than the radio broadcast. The professor is an excellent and lucid communicator, I must say (like all us products of Imperial College, of course!). I think we can all feel just a tad more hopeful for the future. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Steve Shaw Date: 02 Feb 22 - 09:06 AM Flu is not caused by a coronavirus. I'm not sure that Dr Fauci's difficulties inform the work on covid-19 vaccines. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Mrrzy Date: 02 Feb 22 - 10:54 AM One. Single. Nasal. Droplet. Is Enough To Infect! Blicky to a Guardian article. Let me know if there is a paywall. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Donuel Date: 02 Feb 22 - 11:19 AM Yes the flu is the flu. Simply put, Vaccines can block the various tails of the flu virus but there have been none for the "head" of the virus ...yet. The vaccines for SARs covid 19 block the spike protiens but not the sphere of the body of the virus...yet. A general vaccine may be a promising avenue to pursue but so is a manned mission to Titan. Its in a planning phase. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Feb 22 - 11:49 AM Mrrzy, over the years so many Mudcatters have posted links to The Guardian that I decided to contribute a modest amount quarterly so they let me read the news. (They let me choose the interval - very civilized - not dictating how much or how often, just "please contribute.") |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Feb 22 - 02:08 PM I've seen lots of drawings of viruses with grinning faces and teeth and little legs . But somehow I suspect that they were never intended to be taken as illustrations of what viruses actually look like, but rather as metaphorical in nature. And I took Donuel's post in the same sense. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Donuel Date: 02 Feb 22 - 04:22 PM What does the influenza virus look like? Influenza virus has a rounded shape (although it can be elongated or irregularly shaped) and has a layer of spikes on the outside. There are two different kinds of spikes, each made of a different protein – one is the hemagglutinin (HA) protein and the other is the neuraminidase (NA) protein. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Donuel Date: 03 Feb 22 - 05:39 AM Steve is right that I was being contentious but pandemics have lots of guess work. 2 years ago we guessed this would last 4 years and diminish. Now it may never really go away but we can still pretend it is. Great things can happen with a simple speculatiive 'WHAT IF'. So posts of great hope are appreciated and welcome. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 03 Feb 22 - 05:56 AM You mean WHAT IF johnson hadn't of treated the threat with contempt at the start of the pandemic and decided that it was not as important as his divorce settlement? |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 03 Feb 22 - 09:58 AM Here are some pictures of flu viruses. Quite pretty r eally. You could hang them on a Christmas Tree. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Mrrzy Date: 03 Feb 22 - 01:35 PM The nose knows https://neurosciencenews.com/covid-smell-loss-20007/amp/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Mr Red Date: 03 Feb 22 - 06:17 PM The New Scientist has warnings from those wot reelly hunderstand pandemics. And the message is that H1N1 (aka 'flu) has not circulated in anything like numbers this it normally does, because COVID is dominating, maybe out-competing (he said allegorically). So when (not if) it re-surfaces the general public's immunity will have faded and the virus will have mutated beyond the vaccine and that's when we call it a pandemic. OK maybe a small one, but you get the message, it won't be insignificant. Bill Gates predicted a serious pandemic that would cost the US $2-$3 trillion, 5 years previous to COVID (and the current cost is????) So should we be asking Bill for another prediction? |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 03 Feb 22 - 09:09 PM The precautions people have been taking such a wearing masks, social distancing and washing hands will have also reduced the likelihood of catching flu. But I can't think how it can make sense to think of the two competing. Catching Covid doesn't doesn't stop you catching fu, or the other way about.Even at the same time. Though any boost to the immune system generated by one could possibly give you some protection from the other, and that would apply with vaccinations against either. But flu hasn't been taking time off and regrouping. I don't think there is any reason to expect next witer¡s to be particularly But of course it always could be. Get your flu vaccine in October!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Donuel Date: 04 Feb 22 - 07:39 AM Every pandemic is different. There is a potential for a simple fungus to wipe out vast populations, especially in climate change. In life who is the hunted and who is the prey change places quickly. C'est la guerre. Right now our cleverness has an advantage over stupidity. It may not always be the case. Sometimes we are just lucky, sometimes luck runs out. For those who asked what if we weaponized the common cold, they have their answer. We need better questions don't you think. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Donuel Date: 04 Feb 22 - 07:51 AM ps. I had measles and chicken pox at the same time. Simultaneity is a bitch. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Steve Shaw Date: 04 Feb 22 - 07:51 AM "There is a potential for a simple fungus to wipe out vast populations" Populations of who or what? Potato blight? White-rot on my onions, leeks and garlic? |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 04 Feb 22 - 07:54 AM I always thought that H1N1 was a Geordie virus Why aye hinny! |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 04 Feb 22 - 10:10 AM Dave, I causes immobility of the lower legs: "Keep yer feet still Geordie hinny!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 04 Feb 22 - 10:24 AM There are four siblings in my family, born in six years, so close enough in age that we did lots of things together. Including catching childhood illnesses. My mother used to talk about the year we each caught mumps, in sequence, not simultaneously, so she had weeks of sick kids at home. Same with measles and chicken pox. But mumps was apparently worst of the bunch. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Donuel Date: 04 Feb 22 - 06:15 PM https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/deadly-fungi-are-the-newest-emerging-microbe-threat-all-over-the-world/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Steve Shaw Date: 04 Feb 22 - 06:59 PM So what I've read today (dammit, I can't remember where, but maybe some Brit can...) is that almost all patients in intensive care with covid-19 are unvaccinated. I also saw an opinion that your chances of dying of covid-19 are next to nil if you've had both jabs plus the booster. To me, that's a victory, which should mean that we can do two things: persuade the reluctant to get the jab, and to drop all restrictions and get back to normal life. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Steve Shaw Date: 04 Feb 22 - 07:05 PM Well, Scientific American was our go-to for the latest exciting stuff when I was a student over half a century ago. Sadly, it's become a bit of a desperado, relying on cod-drama and scaremongering in order to sell copy. Very sad. Your fungus article is rather typical of its modern-day thrust. Useless. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 04 Feb 22 - 08:08 PM Steve, I don't know what you have against Scientific American. It's a well-respected science journal that covers science for the non-scientist. I suspect it is simply because of who posted it. Stop with the slurs. Just skip past Donuel's posts if you don't want to read them, but we certainly don't need to read your complaints. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 05 Feb 22 - 11:49 AM Potato blight is't exactly laughing matter. It caused millions of deaths in the Irish Famine, and there are probably parts of the world where a disease targeting a single basic food crop could have te same kind of results today. And warnings that fungal infections in humans can be pretty nasty beasta aren't hard to find. Here is The Lancet |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Bonzo3legs Date: 05 Feb 22 - 12:05 PM Sounds like scaremongering to me too!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Steve Shaw Date: 05 Feb 22 - 01:02 PM Absolute nonsense, Maggie. I've said it several times before, nothing to do with Donuel: Scientific American, Nature, New Scientist and their ilk are popular science magazines. They are not learned journals. I actually take learned journals from two disciplines in which I've had a lifelong interest. The gulf between their peer-reviewed content and what you (and I) read in popular science magazines is vast. There is nothing wrong with them unless you are suckered into thinking that they're the last word. They are not, they have to sell copies from magazine racks or annual subs to survive, and if you quote them in ignorance of the real leading-edge science you are in danger of being misled. The banner headline of the fungus piece in SA is a sensationalist piece of scaremongering that is not reflected either by the content of the article, which is largely anecdotal, or by real science. Have you even looked at it? There may be some truth in the content apropos of threats from fungi, but the world is not about to melt down in a mass of mycelium any time soon. To their credit, they do quote sources from peer-reviewed science in some cases (not this one), but I do wonder how many of their readers actually follow those up. Yes they are respectable and respected. They are still just potted science. By the way, if you click on the name of the journalist who penned the article you will see a list of other articles of hers which, undeniably, generally kick off on the sensationalist side of things. SA has to sell copies. Good luck to it. One problem with potato blight, Kevin, is that the potato fields or allotment plots you see consist of a single variety. As potatoes are reproduced vegetatively, what you see are clones. Because there is no genetic variability, each and every plant is equally susceptible to blight, so the fungus sweeps through the whole crop and destroys the lot. Efforts to find blight-resistant varieties have met with limited success. Our predilection for growing vast areas of monoculture makes us our own worst enemy in some regards. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Steve Shaw Date: 05 Feb 22 - 01:12 PM From your Lancet piece, Kevin: "Mucormycosis is caused by ubiquitous environmental moulds with a global distribution, including the Rhizopus, Apophysomyces, Mucor, and Lichtheimia species. Although generally harmless to an immunocompetent host, the infection can be deadly in patients with an impaired immune system, such as in those with haematological malignancies or poorly controlled diabetes, or in individuals receiving steroids or other immunosuppressants." The article goes on to state that there were 11700 cases being treated in India on a date last May. Well the population of India is over 1.3 billion people. So it's a very rare disease, despite the ubiquitous nature of the fungal spores in question, that generally only affects people with underlying conditions. We're constantly battling old and new infection agents and 'twas ever thus. We shouldn't be complacent, but neither should we be unduly alarmist. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 05 Feb 22 - 01:14 PM "Our predilection for growing vast areas of monoculture makes us our own worst enemy in some regards. " Precisely. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 Feb 22 - 01:24 PM Okay, time for the lecture: Someone has to write good science for lay people. Scientific American isn't an aggregator, pulling in links from various scholarly journals and putting the abstracts and a few teaser statements on a page that attracts eyeballs and the ads make money. Scientific American has people who write original articles about subjects and they get their information from scholarly journals. They tend to link back to themselves as source material, but it took a few keystrokes searching Google Scholar to land one of the original articles about Candida auris that this article references. It's a good starting point, like Wikipedia for references. Start there and work up if you need the rest of the scholarly detail. Those who can, do. Those who can't teach. I've always thought that statement was short-sighted and dismissive, but if it will get you to stop with the "I used to teach science so I know better" stuff, sobeit. These Scientific American articles do like you did, teach. There's nothing wrong with teaching science so you need to stop dismissing your journalistic peers as if you're better than them. There is plenty of room for good science material in the world, and nothing wrong with reaching the masses. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Steve Shaw Date: 05 Feb 22 - 02:12 PM I haven't got any journalistic peers as I'm not a journalist. "I used to teach science so I know better" I've never said anything like that in my life and I'll thank you for not ascribing it to me, thanks. It's a rather cheap shot, isn't it? I'm not knocking any of the magazines I've mentioned. I am saying that they are not the be-all and end-all, and their science content lacks the rigour and the detail of learned journals. Often, it's the hard stuff, the technical stuff, the equations, that have to be omitted. Science is hard graft, and, while one major job of science is to communicate to everyone, it's very important to recognise (and communicate that recognition) that magazines hold less than half of the truth. That's all. They have a role. But the fungus article, with its anecdotal content and its implicit appeal to authority, whilst an entertaining read, falls well short. That's my opinion. If your opinion is different you can say so, if you like, without the accompanying abrasion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 Feb 22 - 03:44 PM Your main tool for shutting down opinions you disagree with is to say that you taught science. We've all seen it many times. Hard science is over the heads of most readers and they're never going to approach it. Popular science journals offer the basics and more information and detail can be had by those who wish to find it. No cheap shot, just a frank appraisal of how you approach anything to do with science. From the Scientific American article: Almost exactly four years earlier he and the CDC had sent an urgent bulletin to hospitals, telling them to be on the lookout. The fungus had not yet appeared in the U.S., but Chiller had been chatting with peers in other countries and had heard what happened when the microbe invaded their health-care systems. It resisted treatment by most of the few drugs that could be used against it. It thrived on cold hard surfaces and laughed at cleaning chemicals; some hospitals where it landed had to rip out equipment and walls to defeat it. It caused fast-spreading outbreaks and killed up to two thirds of the people who contracted it. This writerly-style to general science writing gives a basic understanding of the problem. These are review articles that contain generalizations but also discuss specific studies. You the reader don't want to get this disease or condition, you want to know if it's out there, and you want to know more about how to prevent it. You're engaged. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 05 Feb 22 - 04:07 PM But Steve your post "There is a potential for a simple fungus8 to wipe out vast populations" Populations of who or what? Potato blight? White-rot on my onions, leeks and garlic? appeared to be mocking the very idea that fungal infections can be an extremely serious matter, my link to The Lancet illustrates. It's always waste of energy getting into feudlets. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Steve Shaw Date: 05 Feb 22 - 04:30 PM Blimey. In biology, "population" doesn't just mean humans. My request for elucidation was perfectly appropriate. I was absolutely not mocking and I didn't start a feudlet. I was asking for clarification of a statement that was too vague to be useful. Every remark I've made about fungal diseases has been an attempt to keep the thing in proportion and try to sidestep alarmism. The disease referred to in your Lancet piece is serious for those who catch it, but when one continues to read down the article one sees that it's actually very rare (I picked out the numbers) and does not affect people with normally-functioning immune responses. You can read that as well as I can. Hardly contentious. "Your main tool for shutting down opinions you disagree with is to say that you taught science. We've all seen it many times." I have never used my scientific background to "shut down opinions." I challenge you to present examples of when I've done that. You are trying to shut down perfectly civil yet provocative discussion via personal attacks, aren't you? It's beneath you and you need to step back from that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 Feb 22 - 05:04 PM I don't have to prove anything. We've all seen you do it. Now let's end this off topic bickering. Again. Meanwhile, COVID-19. The CDC is moving toward that fourth shot. A booster booster. CDC plans to let people with weakened immune systems get a booster earlier That means allowing a fourth Pfizer or Moderna shot at three months instead of five The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is planning to update its guidance for some people with weakened immune systems to receive a booster dose of the coronavirus vaccine three months after completing the initial series of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccine rather than at the current interval of five months. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 05 Feb 22 - 06:14 PM We've got an extra booster here now if you are in a vulnerable group, by illness or age, making a fourth in all. I had mine on Thursday. No side effects from any of them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Backwoodsman Date: 05 Feb 22 - 06:19 PM Was that a second booster (i.e. fourth vaccination), McG? If so, how did you come by it - were you invited for it by your Dr’s surgery or the NHS, or did you have to apply for it? I haven’t heard of such a thing up here in the Yellowbelly-Backwoods. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19 From: Steve Shaw Date: 05 Feb 22 - 07:59 PM It's good to see restrictions being lifted in various EU countries (as well as ours). The vaccines have hit the thing on the head. You catch it now, you won't die of it or go to hospital because of it. Negative again this morning and last Thursday too. Vaccines and testing, the way to go. And both those things, if done, leave us to make our own decisions and help us to be normal again. It'll take time, of course. I'd love to go on holiday to Italy again. Haven't dared for almost three years now. Mrs Steve and I, from running scared a few months ago, are now in "well, let's see..." mode... |
