Irish Civil War executions

Subject: Irish Civil War executions
From: Pat deVerse
Date: 23 Apr 20 - 11:17 AM

The first official executions in the Irish Civil War took place on
on 17 November 1922 in KIlmainham Gaol , when James Fisher, Peter Cassidy, Richard Twohig and John Gaffney were shot by a Free State army firing squad.

Does anyone know f there are songs about these four men?
If so, I'd be grateful to be pointed in the right direction. Personally, I've never heard of any relating to these executions.

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Apr 20 - 11:24 AM

Try here? https://www.irish-folk-songs.com/kilmainham-jail-its-heroes-and-songs.html

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Apr 20 - 11:58 AM

HERE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Apr 20 - 12:16 PM

The last chapter of Terry Moylan's magnificent 'The Indignant Muse' is dedicated to The Civil War but no mention is made of thesee four
Ine of Terry's major sources was 'The Samuel Collection - maybe there's something there Pat
Stay safe

My favourite 'Easter Week' story tells of a group of Liverpudlians (my home place) getting off the boat at The North Wall, hopping on a tram and asking for "twelve singles to the revolution please"
From Thomas Coffey's 'Agony at Easter' (1971)
Jim

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: Pat deVerse
Date: 23 Apr 20 - 03:24 PM

I don't think that there any songs re; the four republicans executed at Kilmainham. I've often wondered about it and have never come across any references to them in verse.

In fact very few people know about these men. I work at the Gaol as a tour guide and on Nov 17th every year without fail, a relative of Peter Cassidy's leaves a bunch of roses at the plaque where they were shot. Very poignant really. I'll have to write something about them myself. the 100th anniversary will be in 2 years time....that's if we've escaped Covid 19 by then??

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 03:00 AM

Pat
One of the things I've discovered during our thirty-odd years collecting in Clare is that quite often there is more information to be had on this type of incident from local people and descendants than is availably in the official records
I've become involved in researching West Clare social history, particularly about the Land Wars, the Cattle Raids and later, The War of independence - our local shopkeeper, a shoemaker, a general do-everything and several publicans have proved more useful than a library full of books
I'd ask the feller/lady with the flowers if it was me
Another source is mostly ignores many-hundreds of locally made songs
An old singer told us recently that "In those days, if a man farted in church, somebody made a song about it" - that has turned out not to have been an exaggeration
Many of these songs stopped being sung, but some remained as memories and in family notebooks, as we have found out

I find it fascinating that, despite laws saying that State papers should be opened to pubic research after a given period, we still have no ideas how the decision to execute the sixteen leaders of the Easter Week Uprising was reached

Ironically, like the Famine, for a long time, the best book on The Irish Civil War was written by a non-Irish writer (Carlton Younger)
Maybe,(also like the Famine) the anniversary will change that, though, with of The Famine that took 150 years
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: Pat deVerse
Date: 28 Apr 20 - 08:07 AM

As regards the executed 1916 leaders. They were adjudged to have rebelled against His Majesty's government in a time of war. As such, they were deemed to guilty of 'treason', a capital offence.

In all, 97 of those involved in the Easter Rising were due to face the firing squad. In fact, in Arbour Hill, the mass-grave into which the remains of the 14 men executed at Kilmainham Gaol were buried could have held up to 68 to 70 bodies. Generals Maxwell and Blackadder had not intention of limiting the executions to just 14.

ON the very day that Seán MaDiarmada and James Connolly were executed, the British Prime Minister Herbert Asquith arrived in Dublin to see General Maxwell and he carried a letter from King George V demanding that General Maxwell 'end this madness'. As a result, the executions stopped with MacDiarmada and Connolly.
Thomas Kent had been executed in Cork already.
Casement, of course was a different matter and he was tried under civil law and then hanged at Pentonville Prison on Aug 3rd, 1916.

The rest of the leaders due to be executed including Dev, William Cosgrave, Piaras Beaslaí and the others all received commuted sentences from life right down 5 and 3 yrs.

All, of course were released within a year as part of a British government amnesty.

* Amazing what you learn while working at Kilmainham Gaol*!!

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 28 Apr 20 - 10:11 AM

https://www.kilmainhamtales.ie/civil-war-executions---last-letters.php

Brief history of the four men.

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 29 Apr 20 - 06:14 AM

I took my daughter and her friend to Comhaltas classes in Preston to learn tin whistle. They were also in the Brownies, so I thought they could take the test for their music badge too.

What do they need? asked the whistle teacher. Tunes in two different times, plus the National Anthem. She replied, Well, they can play a jig and a reel, and they already know the National Anthem.

I didn't think the Brownie tester would be expecting the Soldier's Song, so I taught them God Save The Queen myself. They both passed the test and got their badges.

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: GUEST,big al whittle
Date: 30 Apr 20 - 05:49 AM

the farting in church song sounds worth a listening.

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Apr 20 - 05:51 AM

You wouldn't want to be standing too close to the singer though Al
Jim

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Apr 20 - 07:36 AM

Actually you've set me thinking Jim....I wouldn't mind writing that one.
Not using the Latin mass though, even if it is traditional.

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Apr 20 - 08:08 AM

Look forward Al
We have a recording smewhere of an old singer who had a couple of magnificent similar pieces - a song entitled 'This Forty,five years I've Been Buggered and a recitation; 'The Farting Competition'
If you can think of a way of getting me your e-mail address I'll send them to you
You could become a member if you think you can stand the heat, of course ;-)
Jim

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 30 Apr 20 - 08:26 AM

Tom Russell

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: GUEST,big al whittle
Date: 30 Apr 20 - 08:56 AM

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Apr 20 - 09:13 AM

Gotcha Al
Sort it out when it starts raining - feckin' garden
Jim

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 30 Apr 20 - 07:16 PM

There won't be many somgs about the Civil War: it was easy to agree on the Tans and Auxies as enemies, but in 1922 it was your fellow Gael who was murdering you.

BTW I noticed recently that there's a memorial to a Tan (or just a driver perhaps) in a local church: killed at Midleton Co Cork in March 1920.

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: Felipa
Date: 12 Mar 23 - 08:25 PM

This is a very harrowing read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executions_during_the_Irish_Civil_War

I haven't come across any songs about James Fisher, Peter Cassidy, Richard Twohig and John Gaffney who were executed at Kilmainam Gaol in Nov 1924 for possession of revolvers.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/1112/1333890-take-them-out-and-shoot-them-irish-state-executions/

This week marks the centenary of the "Drumboe Martyrs", four men executed by the Irish Free State government on 14 March 1923, they had been found guilty months early of arms offences, but the decision to execution them was only made as a response to the killing (by other members of the anti-treaty forces) of a national army soldier. Lyrics of three songs about the Drumboe executions are now published in the Mudcat thread Woods of Drumboe

Bob Feldman composed a song about Liam Mellows Bob Feldman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=essfjedOExo
and Teresa Brayton, who wrote the lyrics of the popular song "The Old Bog Road", wrote a poem "Liam Mellows" https://www.poetryascommemoration.ie/poems/liam-mellows-by-teresa-brayton/. She doesn't mention Mellows' socialism, which was key for Feldman. I haven't looked at all the poems posted at https://www.poetryascommemoration.ie/virtual-poetry-wall/, but I see it includes poems about the Civil War in Ireland.

Lovely Annaghdown is a song about Máirtín Moylan, one of the Tuam martyrs https://annaghdownheritage.ie/mairtin-moylan/

Mai King O'Brien wrote a poem about the Tuam Martyrs called "The Six"
https://www.oughterardheritage.org/content/people/seamus-o-maille/the-six

Niall Teague's song "Dutiful Son" is based on the last letter of another of the Tuam Martyrs, Frank Cunnane, to his mother
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JRH-o8oJIw
(the other lyrics mentioned are currently available on line, although not yet added to Mudcat; can anyone transcribe 'Dutiful Son', or otherwise obtain the lyrics for us?) The actual letter is transcribed at https://www.oughterardheritage.org/content/people/seamus-o-maille/last-letter-of-frank-cunnane

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: beachcomber
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 12:33 PM

The major song of the Irish Civil War must be "LEGION OF THE REARGUARD".
It refers to the Volunteers who held to the Republic. I believe that it was by far the most popular and, strange to say, was written by a priest !!

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 01:17 PM

I believe some executions were so gruesome they were not talked about for decades, let alone sung about. Imagine songs about Knocknagoshel, Ballyseedy and the like. It won't fly.

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 06:52 PM

Hi Felipa you can email me at [e-mail] and I will send you the lyrics to my song ‘dutiful son’ if you like.

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 02:05 AM

The only reason for these four executions was as a veil for the planned execution of Erskine Childers, on the excuse of his having a gun. Childers was in the house of his Barton cousins in Glendalough when soldiers burst in and screamed at the housekeeper, and he came out of his bedroom upstairs to see what was happening. He was holding a small gun.
The gun had been a present from Michael Collins.
Pat DeVerse, the most likely person to tell you if there are any songs is possibly Erskine Chiders, grandson of the man murdered; he was on Twitter when I used to be there.

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 04:42 AM

By the way - not to drag the thread off centre, and if this develops, please make a new thread - but are there a lot of songs about the American Civil War?

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 06:52 PM

Hi Felipa you can email me at [e-mail] and I will send you the lyrics to my song ‘dutiful son’ if you like.

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 02:05 AM

The only reason for these four executions was as a veil for the planned execution of Erskine Childers, on the excuse of his having a gun. Childers was in the house of his Barton cousins in Glendalough when soldiers burst in and screamed at the housekeeper, and he came out of his bedroom upstairs to see what was happening. He was holding a small gun.
The gun had been a present from Michael Collins.
Pat DeVerse, the most likely person to tell you if there are any songs is possibly Erskine Chiders, grandson of the man murdered; he was on Twitter when I used to be there.

Subject: RE: Irish Civil War executions
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 04:42 AM

By the way - not to drag the thread off centre, and if this develops, please make a new thread - but are there a lot of songs about the American Civil War?