BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 12:03 PM

I am speaking of disarming the high capacity military stuff, the Humvees and such - the tactical military gear. There was a thing in the local news about some kind of bomb-proof tank vehicle given to the Fort Worth police in the last year.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mossback
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 12:06 PM

but I am tiiired of it.

So are ca. 70% of murricans.

Take it up with the Trump Cult (formerly the now defunct Republican Party).

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 03:26 PM

40 years ago Thomas Farmer said everyone is racist,
but only those who actually know why are innocent of abject deliberate life taking hate.
So this is why I introduce you to Karen who is white and will tell you she does not have a racist bone in her body but has trouble with thugs taking over her streets or taking away her Aunt Jemima Pancake flour. "Afterall Aunt Jemima was a slave who was freed and made a successful business". Karen has even been heard speaking about welfare people being takers.
Karen sympathized with Justice Thomas being lynched by the media as well as Bret Kavanaugh. Karen accepts it as normal that Hurricane Katrina killed and stranded mostly blacks because it hit their neihborhood. The same is true of the pandemic because of the jobs blacks choose. Karen says she cares and knows all about MLK.
Karen was never called a nigger or Aunt Jemima or lost her kids or husband to a policeman. Karen was never red lined, she doesn't even know what it is. There is alot Karen doesn't know. Just like everyone here there is alot you don't know about 400 years of oppression and racism. Who blames you? How can you possibly know what you don't know?

I don't know what or how my whiteness saved my life in this culture, but I know that still makes me a participant in racism as well as a racist without knowingly practicing racism. Thomas Farmer said 40 years ago "everyone is a racist". Yes even you.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 04:10 PM

Thomas wasn't lynched. Watch your rhetoric. Makes things worse, misusing inflammatory words

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 04:17 PM

Allow me to introduce George, a black man in his 60's, no not Floyd.
He knows exactly why he is racist and he knows why. Which makes him innocent of abject deliberate life taking hate. But he is angry.
He remembers every slur, look and beating. He knows why he was the only one to receive an 'all but dissertation'.
He went to his uncle's funeral who was shot by a policeman. Uncle Ben was sitting in his 18 year old Pontiac at a McDonald's drive thru under suspicion of driving a stolen vehicle. The hamburgers for his grand children never made it home. He has trusted a white man or two but has been disappointed too many times to count. When white people talk he hears a language that whites do not hear themselves.
George expcts a little change to come his way but knows it will be clawed back later to some unknown degree. Just like Obama followed by Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 05:05 PM

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/a-high-tech-lynching-how-kavanaugh-took-a-page-from-the-thomas-playbook/

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 11:17 PM

As an individual white anti racist, I believe the sensible thing for me to do
is offer support and solidarity as an ally of BLM.

To calmly confront antagonistic racism when I encounter it.

But otherwise keep my mouth shut, and not be one of those ego driven white liberals,
who push to the front taking over centre stage of protests
in a most patronising and paternalistic manner..

Seems like there's been too many of them on the media and internet recently...

They make themselves look like useful idiot stereotypes the reactionaries can exploit for evil purposes,
and in so doing,
undermine the credibility of a far too serious cause.

Just the 'imho' of an insomniac...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 10:20 AM

Change is happening, indeed --
although it is always
a change too late,
that somebody has to pay the cost with their own life
for the rest of us to get on with the change,
that is the tragedy of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 11:49 AM

Mods - can you please put back Donuel's response to my post.

---

It's a non-sequitur when the original complaint was removed. A portion of it said pfr calmly described a type of liberal I too found pretentious if not detrimental to the cause. I encountered a few watching the Women's march. The rest can stay hidden, since it responded to a deleted post.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 11:52 AM

Lemme say this about that.

I participated in a trans/queer BLM thing yesterday. The tone was *radically* different from the BLM thing I tried to participate in back when the movement started... That one was angry, bleak, and threatening. This one was joyous, inclusive, and celebratory. I think we may, as Americans, have turned a corner towards unity. It was grand and glorious.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 11:52 AM

Forgot to mention, I'm in Charlottesville.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 12:40 PM

I've just found out a new Documentary was about to be released before lockdown difficulties,
examining the late 1970s UK Rock Against Racism movement..

This was the turning point in my own teenage life,
as with so many of my small town provincial teen contemporaries,
when we were made aware that we did not have to be culturally institutionalized racists by default...

WE could all shake off all the conditioning and progress positively out of that narrow mindset...

https://www.modernfilms.com/whiteriot

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Helen
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 04:39 PM

pfr, I agree with what you said on 24 Jun 20 - 11:17 PM.

I just re-read an article from Oz ABC News:

How to learn from Indigenous people about the Black Lives Matter movement in Australia

I also remember hearing an African-American woman say on TV a few years ago that the white people who think they are not racist can be worse than the straight-out racists. I don't remember her exact words and I doubt whether I could find the reference, but from memory she was saying it is because their intentions are good but they don't necessarily question their own knowledge/understanding or actions enough.

Subject: RE: Juneteenth - another US Independence Day
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 04:44 PM

Here is the text of that article:

Could Joe Biden pick Barack Obama as his running mate? Yes. But.

It started, as so many things start, in the hazy college dorm room that is Twitter.

Could Joe Biden seek to goose his not-yet-existent presidential campaign by adding Barack Obama to the ticket? Or, along the same lines, could we see Hillary Clinton-Bill Clinton face off against Jeb Bush-George W. Bush? And, like, can you even imagine?

The answer seems to be pretty straightforward. The 12th Amendment to the Constitution states that "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States." And the 22nd Amendment, the political response to Franklin Roosevelt's impressive run of presidential victories, capped presidents to two terms. Ergo: No Clinton-Clinton or Bush-Bush. Or Biden-Obama, for that matter. Done and done, right?

The answer seems straightforward. But it is less straightforward than it appears.

Michael Dorf is a professor of constitutional law at Cornell University. In 2000, he argued that an Al Gore-Bill Clinton ticket could withstand legal scrutiny. And when we spoke by phone on Thursday, he said that he stood by that argument.

The rough outline of his argument is this: The 22nd Amendment doesn't say you can't be president for more than two terms. It says you can't be elected president twice. If a Biden-Obama ticket won (which we'll get to), and tragedy were to befall Joe Biden, Barack Obama could become president, according to the letter of the law (which we'll also get to), since he wasn't elected to the position. As such, Obama is not constitutionally ineligible to serve as president.

What's more, Dorf said, the case of Powell v. McCormack in 1968 established precedent for a narrow reading of what constitutes "eligibility." In that case, the House sought to prevent Adam Clayton Powell from being sworn in as a representative, arguing that the Constitution gave them the ability to "be the judge of ... qualifications" to sit in the House. The Supreme Court disagreed, deciding that the House couldn't add new qualifications (in Powell's case, that he faced legal problems) by which to deem someone eligible.

"I interpret the Powell case to mean that when the Constitution refers to 'qualifications,' or whether someone is 'qualified' for an office, that's a kind of term of art," Dorf said. "When we learn that the vice president has to have the qualifications for the office of the presidency, that is also a term of art. We look to the part of the Constitution that tells us what it takes to be qualified to be president, and not having served two prior terms is not among them."

"The 22nd Amendment, to my mind, is a sort of stand-alone provision," he continued. And that provision says "elected." "The drafters of this language knew the difference between getting elected to an office and holding an office. They could have just said 'no person may hold the office of president more than twice.' But they didn't."

Here's the interesting part, though: Dorf also notes the distinction between running for the vice presidency and becoming vice president. I asked him where a challenge would arise to a Biden-Obama candidacy, and his response was that it would come up at the Electoral College -- or once Congress was asked to certify the already-voted-upon results. There's a completely valid argument to be made that the country would never elect Barack Obama as vice president, of course, in part because is seems to violate the spirit of the 22nd amendment. But if we did, it wouldn't actually become a constitutional question until after Election Day. Remember: We don't elect the president and vice president; the Electoral College does.

Meaning that, in theory, Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden could name anyone as their running mate. Hillary Clinton could run with Charlotte Mezvinsky, her infant granddaughter. The granddaughter couldn't serve, given that she doesn't meet the Constitutional standard for the presidency (being 35 years old) -- but she can run.

That's assuming that young Ms. Mezvinsky were allowed to be on the ballot in the necessary states. State electoral processes differ and the states are allowed to decide what qualifications are required to appear on their ballots. Not being potty-trained might end up being one.

If you're curious, as I was, it's a slightly different situation if, say, George W. Bush ran for the House and was elected House speaker and then the president and vice president died -- the line of succession that puts the speaker second-in-line to the presidency. But that's a statute, meaning that it can be more easily set aside as needed. (The same would hold if the speaker of the House were less than 35 years old -- the minimum age for a president -- which is possible.)

So, in short: Yes, Joe Biden can name Barack Obama as his running mate. It's even conceivable that, if they won, they could argue their case before Congress to be seated as president and vice president. (And Hillary Clinton could name Charlotte Mezvinsky as her running mate, though Charlotte couldn't be vice president. And Jeb Bush can unquestionably name George Bush as his running mate and not even have any constitutional question arise.

Meaning George H. W. Bush, of course, who was only elected president once.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 05:38 PM

All this GOOD NEWS including Charlotsville in the midst of these extraordinary circumstances makes my hair stand up. After so much bad news it was hard to imagine what good news feels like.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 05:36 PM

I do have to repeat how heartwarming it was.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 12:04 PM

And Coca-Cola is stopping all ads on all social media for 30 days or till the stop being racist. Bully for Coke! I might have to go buy some even though I don't drink soda any more.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 01:16 PM

Several large corporations are trying to stick it to Facebook by pulling their ad dollars; 99.9% of their revenue comes from advertising, but if advertisers pull out because Facebook doesn't ditch the hate speech, FB might respond.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 01:48 PM

Corporations do not live by tax cuts alone. They also need sales.
Boycotts are being avoided by early action, but it still may be required. Especially for Facebook.

Racists - get back into the woodwork.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 02:55 PM

When trump is posting on social media, is he officially there in formal capacity as President,
or just a nasty bigoted old man private citizen...???

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 04:14 PM

Alas, he is posting as President. It all goes into the National Archives when he finishes spewing that bile. They'd better make it a heavy duty bunker where they store his stuff so it doesn't contaminate everything else.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 07:08 AM

HATE SPEECH WARNING is how facbook will respond to BLM.
In the infinite wisdom and greed of Zuckerberg that is how he is responding to ad boycotts. That is like CHILD PORN&SNUFF WARNINGS
FB will keep all its perverts and criminals for the all mighty buck.
I hope it costs them more than ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 09:12 AM

Prez Bonespur retweets "white power" exclamation from supporter.

Axios

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 09:14 AM

Aanndd the Archbishop of Canterbury has said (I will search for the blicky) that Jesus shouldn't be portrayed as white! Wow!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 09:18 AM

Blicky

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 09:21 AM

WiILL THIS DO MRZZY ?
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 11:16 AM

Watched a fascinating and extremely moving film last night; 'The Best of Enemies', about a developing friendship between a Black activist lady and a Klan Leader during the campaign to desegregate a Durham N.C. school
The most moving part was when the film finished and clips of the actual participants in the events explained what happened after the campaign was successful
Highly recommended
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 11:48 AM

"Would you trust a black mayor of DC to govern if DC became a State?"
Senator Tom Cotton R.
DC is bigger in population than Wyoming or Vermont and pays more taxes than 22 other States.
There may not be 63 million voting racists anymore but even our President is retweeting "the good people who chant White Power".

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 12:51 PM

https://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/whitetoon02.jpg?w=720

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 01:57 PM

I did not know the police have the right to inject a massive dose of Ketamine, enough to cause death.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 09:35 PM

That was the emt's, I thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 09:39 PM

Blicky

Yeah, the kops I am sure ordered it but they didn't have it themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 11:12 PM

And Mississippi has voted to change ots flag. Bully for them!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jun 20 - 07:49 AM

We are already in the extreme silly season of an election.
I don't know which lies are more effective anymore but there are more extreme prevarications arriving more often. To even respond to them is a participation in the stagecraft of the absurd. Minds will be boggled but not changed at this point.
The power of real raw self interest of Democrats and Republicans will be the driving force from now on, and that outcome is up to you despite the dumpster fires and suppressions. Lines will be long and dangerous like the line for the complaint department in Hell. Be careful.
So I'm goin cat fishin with some yarn on a stick until Halloween.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Jun 20 - 04:26 PM

Mississippi Flag change decision

"The bill establishes a commission to develop a new flag design without the Confederate emblem that includes the phrase "In God, We Trust." Mississippi state voters would then vote on the new design this November."

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jun 20 - 06:08 PM

Hey Nigel, how about "Creation Science Only"

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Jun 20 - 12:01 PM

Barf. One step forward, two steps back.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: mg
Date: 30 Jun 20 - 11:06 PM

there is a beautiful ssuggestion for a MS flag...magnolia in center with blue stars in a circe..prob a bow to confederate flag and it says hospitality state. it is quite pretty.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Jul 20 - 08:41 AM

Then there is this...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/01/us/mississippi-state-flag-confederacy-flag-trnd/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: leeneia
Date: 01 Jul 20 - 01:05 PM

If we want to avoid death's such as George Floyd's, then we have to do the hard work of changing police culture and police contracts. Instead, protesters are frittering energy away on statues, flags and fountains.

I fear that soon the excitement will be over, and the injustice will be forgotten.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Jul 20 - 10:14 PM

Ooh and this

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/02/what-if-we-treated-confederate-symbols-the-way-we-treated-the-defeated-nazis

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Jul 20 - 10:07 AM

DC says their football [US] team can't come back to DC under that name... But when did they stop being the Washington team?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jul 20 - 12:36 PM

So George Floyd was not s criminal thug now?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jul 20 - 12:59 PM

So, Bonzo, tell us then if you believe in summary death penalty by neck pressure without trial...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jul 20 - 01:39 PM

So by extension of Bonz's argument..

It should be even more ok to summarily execute crooked accountants
who's crimes
amount to substantially more than $20...

Fair enough...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Neil D
Date: 03 Jul 20 - 07:26 PM

Interesting article comparing the display of the Confederate battle flag and statues to the way Nazi imagery was banned in Germany after WWII Mrrzy. I've been seeing that comparison a lot lately and it's one I've been making for years. The Nazi swastika is also outlawed in most European countries and it is worth pointing out that white supremist groups in Europe have adopted an alternative banner to rally to, the Confederate battle flag.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 10:06 AM

Yeah, me too, NeilD. Why did the federal govt ever allow those statues in the first place?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 10:21 AM

I had to cut short my earlier post to deal with an emergency. What I was going to say that the police brutality that killed George Floyd was inexcusable and his murderer should suffer the full force of the law. However, I refuse to accept the narrative that this person is a martyr or should be lifted up in the black community. He has a rap sheet that is long, that is dangerous. He was an example of a violent criminal his entire life — up until the very last moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 11:07 AM

Bonzo, don't believe everything you read. All of that is out of the mouth of the head of the police union in Minneapolis and right wing politicians opposing the whole Black Lives Matter movement. Snopes sorted out the hyperbole from the facts:

According to court records in Harris County, which encompasses Floyd’s hometown of Houston, authorities arrested him on nine separate occasions between 1997 and 2007, mostly on drug and theft charges that resulted in months-long jail sentences.

My neighbor across the street has a similar rap sheet - it's a fact that once you're in the system, especially if you're from a dark race, it's easy to end up back in jail for things that white people would simply get a ticket for and go home.

And that whole fuss about the counterfeit $20 - there is fake money in circulation; every so often you hear about one being refused in a store. The move is generally to take it to a bank and hand it over so they can turn it over to the US Treasury for whatever research they do. $20 isn't enough for more than a petty crime, so the fact that a scared teen aged convenience store clerk called police means someone didn't get any training how how to deal with counterfeits. And having this kind of thing happen shouldn't result in the death penalty.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Helen
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 03:14 PM

And it is the role of the police to bring people safely into the justice system so that they can be dealt with fairly, justly and with respect and dignity. It is not the role of the police officer to be judge, jury and executioner.

Innocent until proven guilty. Let the punishment fit the crime. Equality, justice and fairness for all.