BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere

Subject: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 11:47 PM

Too cool!

Phosphines, on this planet an anerobic biosignature, found in the part considered habitable.

Hmmm...

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 06:34 AM

On the surface it is so hot it melts lead Pb. Phosphenes may indicate atmospheric life.

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 09:01 AM

By "on this planet" I meant here on Earth. There is nothing indicating life on the *surface* of Venus, which is why the thread title says In atmosphere.

So it's not the pressure that makes life an outrageous idea, it's that the atmosphere is sulphuric acid.

Too totally cool.

Phosphine is PO3 [one phosphorus 3 oxygens], a gas produced on Earth only by human artifice or anerobic life.

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Raedwulf
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 04:13 PM

Phosphine (it's an I, Don; it's not phosgene! ;-) ) is PH3, Mrrzy. Three Hydrogen, not Oxygen. It's an interesting finding, but I'll wait for more info before jumping to any conclusions.

Although I will point out that there's all sorts of weird & wonderful life down in the deep oceans around thermal vents - hot, high pressure environment; very chemical, no sunlight. So it's life, Jim, but not life like us! NB: the phosphine has been detected high in the atmosphere, where conditions are much more Earth-normal; I'm just pointing out we've got some serious weirdies down here, so...

It'll take a dedicated, specially designed mission to potentially find anything, so beyond what we can find out from distant observation of the atmosphere, it'll be a decade at least before we potentially find anything substantial.

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 06:05 PM

If life forms on earth can live in specific depths of water, I see no reason for life forms having an ability to inhabit specific layers of the atmosphere of Venus.

There are several SF books that I have read in the past speculating upon similar organisms, including a Venus scenario.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 08:01 PM

Keep on hoping. Life on Venus is next to impossible. High up in the air? Do me a favour...

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 08:51 AM

If life forms on earth can live in specific depths of water, I see no reason for life forms having an ability to inhabit specific layers of the atmosphere of Venus.

Eminently possible for some form life to survive, but I might question its ability to get started.

There is a conceit for people to assume that life has to be carbon based like it is on Earth. The problemo arises from the telescope effect, we only see what we can see. We are carbon based, and see carbon bases. Our science is sophisticated, based on carbon bases. We have no other bases as a basis. Basically.

Having said that, there is a well researched theoretical system of DNA based on 6 nucleotides not 4 that does not trouble our understanding of DNA (so far). Alien to us but within range of our telescope.

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 11:40 AM

Conditions on Venus could have been Earth-like several billion years ago before its rampant greenhouse effect got going. Life could have arisen then but if any of it is left it would have to be in that temperate layer about 50 km above the surface. But there's no oxygen and very little water vapour or water droplets. At best we could be talking about microbes of some kind that would spend a lot of their lives as dormant, resistant spores. The point about life being based on carbon (and liquid water) is that those molecules are miraculously versatile. Unless you believe in magic, it's a pretty solid bet that life anywhere in the universe would also be carbon/water-based. Life has to encompass evolution as well as the day-to-day chemical reactions that keep it going. If you suspect differently, let's be having your possible realistic alternatives, and don't forget the DNA-substitute. Incidentally, the phosphine "discovery" has yet to be verified. There's the suspicion that the finding may be false. Let's not get excited then.

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 01:18 PM

Is this life-form female...???



.. well.. my mrs got the joke...

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 03:33 PM

PH3 makes way more sense, sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 03:34 PM

Also appeeciated the "It's life, Jim, but not as we know it" reference.

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 03:52 PM

Makes more sense than what, and why are you apologising?

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 04:18 PM

https://youtu.be/pHCEBlpBdMo

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 05:28 PM

The link is to a journalist on The Verge, very much a popular science outfit. It's fine to get over-excited about a dramatic new angle about extra-terrestrial life, but real science stays more grounded. The phosphine claim has yet to be substantiated and there's a fair way to go before it is either confirmed, or more likely, refuted.

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 05:58 PM

More sense than PO3 and sorry for saying PO3.

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 06:01 PM

Ah, I get it. Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 09:30 PM

"Extraordinary discoveries require extraordinary proof." -- Carl Sagan

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 06:20 AM

Now there was a man.

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 07:37 AM

Sagan did not have the breakthroughs of Feynman and Eienstein but he made them as clear as an azure sky.

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 08:45 AM

Amazing proof of phosphine in Venus' atmosphere exists. Nobody is claiming anything else.

However:
On this planet only anaerobic life and human artifice produce phosphine. There is no human artidice going on there... So... No extraordinary claim in concluding life is possible there.

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 08:46 AM

Artifice. I proofread and saw the typo *as* I hit Submit.

Subject: RE: BS: Life in Venus' Atmosphere
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 06:06 PM

Ok just watched Nova on intelligence in plants and slime molds. Wonder what could be going in with them venusian microbes now, eh! If there are microbes...