BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Sep 20 - 05:16 AM

Really, look at the islands' website (or rather the one foisted on them by the Westminster regime). They are facing catastrophe from Brexit - much worse damage than anything Galtieri would have done to them 40 years ago - and the Johnson junta is doing nothing serious in response.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 21 Sep 20 - 09:07 AM

Bonzo, Charmion might know a thing or two because she had two brothers serving at the time, her elder brother, a reservist artillery captain attending university, her younger brother, a regular artillery captain. She was also close friends of the unit emplaning officer of the Canadian Airborne Regiment and several senior officers. We all talk shop when we get together, the shop being current military operations and history.

I cannot speak for our brother, but I was champing at the bit to go, and would have put my hand up if they'd asked for volunteers. I was a recently qualified forward observation officer serving in 5e Régiment d'artillerie légère du Canada. The officers of 5e Brigade were glued to the news on the telly in the mess at lunch and intelligence summaries were closely examined in every office they went through.

As I recall, the Canadian Forces' Maritime Command backfilled for the UK in STANAVFORLANT. We also supplied the RN with every last fast blooming chaff rocket we had that wasn't already afloat.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 21 Sep 20 - 10:20 AM

Bonzo, I might know a thing or two because I am a military veteran who has been plugged into the Canadian Forces RumourNet since Christ was a lance-jack in the Israeli Army and Pontius was a pilot. As a civilian, I worked in the belly of the Canadian security beast off and on (more on than off) for nearly 30 years.

Plus what Brother Andrew said. At the time of the Falklands War (Question for extra credit: When is a war a war, and not a mere "conflict"?), I was frequently a guest in the Senior NCOs' mess of the Canadian Airborne Regiment, which was what we had back then for a quick-reaction force. Noses were glued to the TV and rucksacks were packed and repacked, but nobody received anything resembling a warning order. Our top priority then, after home defence, was the "northern flank" of NATO -- i.e., Norway.

Jack Campin's points, gleaned from the Falkland Islands' own government website, pretty well cover any ground that needs covering now.

As BillD implied but did not say, the war for the Falkland Islands was a tragedy for many of the people involved in it. It takes a lot of digging and stretching to find any discernible benefit to anyone that could not have been achieved through diplomacy -- if either of the parties to the dispute had been willing to do more jaw-jaw.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Sep 20 - 10:44 AM

”As BillD implied but did not say, the war for the Falkland Islands was a tragedy for many of the people involved in it. It takes a lot of digging and stretching to find any discernible benefit to anyone that could not have been achieved through diplomacy -- if either of the parties to the dispute had been willing to do more jaw-jaw.”

Spot on, Charmion, the best post on this thread. The Falklands War (or ‘Conflict’ as the nit-pickers seem to prefer) was an avoidable disaster, and absolutely nothing to celebrate.

As Dick rightly pointed out, this thread was started as ‘the point of view of right-wing imperialistic ideology trolling and a bit of political provocation’.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Sep 20 - 10:49 AM

No it wasn't, it was simply demonstrating the wimpy woky youth of today!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Sep 20 - 10:58 AM

The OP doth protest too much, methinks.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: leeneia
Date: 21 Sep 20 - 12:40 PM

I'm sorry to hear about your friend, Jack. I had a cousin who suffered a similar fate - different war.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Sep 20 - 12:55 PM

A decade after the 'war'..
My mate had a sudden flashback panic attack
while we were travelling in a mini bus on a band tour.

Without warning he freaked out and ducked down under the seats.
That's when we realised just how much trauma he'd buried and hidden from us all for so long..

He was back onboard ship under attack from jet bombers..

The only positive from that harrowing experience,
and talking with him afterwards, was bonding us friends all closer together
for the few years later we still kept in touch through music...

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 20 - 06:24 PM

The outrage that erupted when the Falklands were invaded was very rapidly turned into an opportunity for Thatcher to do the little-England bit that would assure her of another term. The collateral damage of lives lost were, for her, rather unfortunate, but worth it.

Look at a map and tell me, in all your honesty, where the Malvinas truly belong.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 02:15 AM

Lost cause Mr Shaw!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 03:46 AM

it was simply demonstrating the wimpy woky youth of today!!!

So you were showing how soft the youth of today are by comparing them to a bunch of highly trained soldiers 40 years ago? That doesn't make much sense to me. How did the youth of 1980 compare with the Marines then? Or are the Marines now wimpy and wokey (whatever that means) compared to those of 40 years ago? What point are you trying to make Bonzo? Or are you just, as has been suggested, trying to provoke a reaction?

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 04:09 AM

Dave, I’m sure everyone knows the answer to that! I think we’re back to ‘Don’t Feed The Troll’ again...

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 06:04 AM

Look at a map and tell me, in all your honesty, where the Malvinas truly belong.
The Falklands belong exactly where they are, and no-one is trying to move them. Who should have control of them is another matter.
Calling them "the Malvinas" is pointless. I somehow doubt that you refer to Paris as "Paree", or Rome as "Roma".

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 07:50 AM

So who do you believe should have control of The Falklands/Las Malvinas, and what is your justification, Nigel?

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 07:59 AM

I believe that the islanders should have control of the islands.
If they want to continue as a British Overseas Territory then I have no objection to that. If they wish instead to ally themselves to the closer Argentina, then, again, that is up to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 08:13 AM

I don't think any nation would be advised to accept control by the current Peronist government in Argentina. However, if it meant a cheap deal on dulce de leche and the best beef in the world - that's another matter!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 08:14 AM

It would seem that the territory has been the subject of claim and counter claim for centuries. The history of settlements on the islands is quite interesting.

Link

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 10:16 AM

”I believe that the islanders should have control of the islands.
If they want to continue as a British Overseas Territory then I have no objection to that. If they wish instead to ally themselves to the closer Argentina, then, again, that is up to them.”

That’s one solution which, on the face of it, sounds very reasonable, and I’d agree with you if the Islanders were a genuine indigenous population. But they are not - they are comparatively recent settlers and descendants of settlers and, in the main, they are British - no prize for guessing which of those two they would almost certainly choose!

I think that, in view of the fact that both the U.K. and Argentina have strong, legitimate claims to the Falklands/Las Malvinas archipelago, it would be a matter better settled by the International Court of Justice.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 11:33 AM

Does trump have his eye on the Falklands as a golf resort...???

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 11:36 AM

No, pfr, it's not his kind of place. I don't think luxury is a style choice in the Falklands, and the wind would play Hob with his hair.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 11:41 AM

That’s one solution which, on the face of it, sounds very reasonable, and I’d agree with you if the Islanders were a genuine indigenous population. But they are not - they are comparatively recent settlers and descendants of settlers and, in the main, they are British
Something of a non sequitur there is no 'indigenous population'.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 11:48 AM

”Something of a non sequitur there is no 'indigenous population'.”

Yes, precisely, you got it! That’s the whole point - only a truly indigenous population should and could have the right to choose. The population of The Falklands/Las Malvinas are effectively squatters - a squatter has no right to choose his landlord.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 11:49 AM

Try again...

”Something of a non sequitur there is no 'indigenous population'.”

Yes, precisely, you got it! That’s the whole point - only a truly indigenous population should and could have the right to choose. The population of The Falklands/Las Malvinas are effectively squatters - a squatter has no right to choose his landlord.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 04:20 PM

So that disposes neatly of most of the ruling classes of America, Australia, New Zealand, England . . . Argentina!
In fact if the diaspora from Africa is taken as fact, no one has any rights anywhere except in a very small part of Africa.

So if no-one has rights to The Falklands then the "squatters" should at least get some say in who gets control of a formerly uninhabited island.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 04:53 PM

At the time, there was joke about this - when the Argentines invaded Port Stanley they saw a lone Royal Marine on a hill, the Argentine commander ordered 50 troops to capture the marine, they were sent over the hill but the next day none had returned.

So the Argentine commander sent 500 troops over the hill, next day one Argentine soldier came running down the hill shouting, its a trap, its a trap - his commander asked him how is it a trap? The soldier said " there are 2 Marines up there!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 05:31 PM

”So that disposes neatly of most of the ruling classes of America, Australia, New Zealand, England . . . Argentina!
In fact if the diaspora from Africa is taken as fact, no one has any rights anywhere except in a very small part of Africa.”

Well even by your standards that’s a stretch Nigel. Still got that nit-obsession then?

Funny how you sidestepped my point that those uninhabited islands are the subject of legal claims to ownership by the UK and Argentina, and unlike the times when the New World, Australasia, etc. were being colonised, there exists today an international court of justice precisely for the purpose of settling legal disputes between countries. It would make far more sense, and would be infinitely more likely to produce an impartial result, if the question of whose claim took precedence was settled by the ICJ, rather than leaving it to the biases of a small group of settlers.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 08:13 PM

I am of the "what the inhabitants want goes" persuasion.

But the inhabitants cannot possibly have wanted Brexit (they didn't get a vote) and when the Johnson junta's programme really kicks in next year, a lot of Union Jacks are going to get pulled down.

The Falklands are politically unlike most places. Most if the population lives in Stanley, they know each other, and there is no Covid risk to interfere with in-person meetings. Public opinion is Facebook-proof.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 02:43 AM

so we have to tolerate this trolling post from the op that is poltically provocative and uses jingoistic phraseology, with no action from moderators.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: BobL
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 02:58 AM

The population of The Falklands/Las Malvinas are effectively squatters - a squatter has no right to choose his landlord.

Ever heard of squatters' rights?

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 03:07 AM

Indeed I have Bob. But they don’t include the right to make a legal determination on which of two claimants should be the owners and administrators of the property the squatter is squatting in.

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, of course...

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:06 AM

Thinking up legal excuses based on abstract "rights" for evicting people who have lived in the same place for their entire lives, or for generations, is the sort of shit that white America used to justify the Native American genocide and what the Zionists are doing to Palestine.

The people of the Falklands get to tell Argentina to fuck off if they want. Just like the people of Scotland get to tell Britain to fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:42 AM

Funny how you sidestepped my point that those uninhabited islands are the subject of legal claims to ownership by the UK and Argentina, and unlike the times when the New World, Australasia, etc. were being colonised, there exists today an international court of justice precisely for the purpose of settling legal disputes between countries. It would make far more sense, and would be infinitely more likely to produce an impartial result, if the question of whose claim took precedence was settled by the ICJ, rather than leaving it to the biases of a small group of settlers.

If Argentina had thought they could overthrow the status quo by an appeal to the ICJ they would have taken that route, rather than attempt an armed take-over. I would presume that an armed invasion to try to overthrow the established (since 1833) position would do nothing to make any subsequent appeal to the ICJ seem more reasonable.

And I don't sidestep your point that "those uninhabited islands are the subject of legal claims to ownership by the UK and Argentina". I treat it with the disdain it deserves. The Falklands are not 'uninhabited'.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:47 AM

Hmmmm, your career in the Diplomatic Corps didn’t last long then, Jack? ;-)

Nobody’s ‘thinking up legal excuses based on abstract “rights” for evicting people’ here - ideas are being thrown out for solving the very difficult and important question of the resolution of the ‘ownership’ claims of Argentina and the U.K. over The Falklands/Las Malvinas, a resolution that would stand the test of legality in international court, would preserve the security of the population, and would not result in the loss of more lives on top of the thousand or so lost in 1982.

Argentinian belligerence failed to bring a lasting solution last time, why on earth do you believe that belligerence on the part of the Islanders and/or the UK would bring a better result now? All it would achieve would be the hardening of attitudes on both sides, and drag the dispute on even further.

I seldom quote Churchill, but he was spot-on with his comment about “Jaw-jaw is always better than war-war”.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:51 AM

Jack Campin
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:06 AM
Thinking up legal excuses based on abstract "rights" for evicting people who have lived in the same place for their entire lives, or for generations, is the sort of shit that white America used to justify the Native American genocide and what the Zionists are doing to Palestine.
The people of the Falklands get to tell Argentina to fuck off if they want. Just like the people of Scotland get to tell Britain to fuck off.

Not quite how I would have phrased it, but Yes!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:54 AM

”And I don't sidestep your point that "those uninhabited islands are the subject of legal claims to ownership by the UK and Argentina". I treat it with the disdain it deserves. The Falklands are not 'uninhabited'.”

Unfortunately, in quoting you, I missed the important word ‘formerly’ - apologies for the mis-quote.

But the point still stands, regardless of your misplaced disdain.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:55 AM

The Falkland Islands number 778 and MOST of them are uninhabited.

Two can play at being bloody pedantic.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 05:06 AM

The Falkland Islands number 778 and MOST of them are uninhabited.
Two can play at being bloody pedantic.

Yes, but (generally) when referring to "The Falkland Islands" one is referring to the islands as a group, and the group is inhabited.

The British Isles are also inhabited, although some of the individual islands are not. The fact that some of the islands are uninhabited would not lead anyone to claim that "The British Isles are uninhabited".

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 05:43 AM

Just playing silly buggers as you frequently do Nigel ! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 06:01 AM

During the invasion of South Georgia by Argentina, 22 Royal Marines took on an Argentine warship and put it out of action. That required balls, guts and tip top training - none of your so called "woke" Nancy boys there - a biffing was required and a biffing was done !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 07:22 AM

Same post three times, flame-baiting

or complete lack of intelligence

or both.

I would suggest the latter.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 07:30 AM

I think Bonzo wants us to clap and cheer for the Marines, and chuck shade at a Young People Today.

I *like* today’s young people, who pay the taxes that fund my pension. I’m quite happy to buy a drink for any Leatherneck who strolls into my grid square, but that’s all.

And “biffing” — WTF? That’s straight out of the Boys’ Own Paper, and not at all appropriate for such a topic.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: meself
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 11:49 AM

Naaa - he wants us to sputter and fume and express outrage at his cartoonish rant. As my old father would have said: "People like him give war a bad name!"

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 11:53 AM

Too many lives were sacrificed for The Falklands.
It was a nasty little war, fought for squalid political reasons..

Our brave military personnel did their job well,
and deserve respect.
But their government leaders didn't, and still don't...

I might have a little less disrespect for bonz's provocative jingoistic gloating,
if he'd been there in person soldering,
rather than sat comfy back in dear old blighty watching it on his telly...

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 12:14 PM

There's a lyrics-added thread for an original song by Martin Carthy
titled Company Policy, which mentions
"a South Atlantic Company Store."

Presumably, a song that would be
neither written, nor sung, by someone
cheering on the Royal Marines?

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 01:26 PM

Sorry Charmion, a biffing was required and a biffing was done !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 01:40 PM

No, Bonzo. That word proves you do not understand what happened there.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 01:47 PM

"soldering..."..???...

..errrmm.. and even less disrespect if bonz'd been there soldiering...

..obviously, no disrespect to electricians...

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 03:02 PM

...or pipefitters.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 03:12 PM

During my time in the service, the verb "to biff" someone was "to buddy-fuck" them; in other words, it is to screw your mates figuratively. It is the sort of term that, if used other than in jest, could be construed in certain contexts as "provoking speeches" and punishable under the Code of Service Discipline.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 03:41 PM

Well I was never in the service and I say that the Royal Marines gave them a good biffing.