BS: CGT trap for separating couples!

Subject: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Dec 20 - 03:51 PM

Didn't know about this!!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Dec 20 - 04:23 PM

Thw grounds for divorce in the US is marriage.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Dec 20 - 04:26 PM

oh bonzo i hope your not in the doghouse

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Dec 20 - 04:39 PM

No, heard about it on a tax webinar today!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Dec 20 - 08:50 PM

I would gave thought that were true everywhere, Donuel.

People think half of marriages end in divorce. I read that it's more that in the year they came up with that stat, there were half as many divorces as marriages. Not the same.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 12:09 AM

Although it is not romantic ,i think it is a good idea for couples particularly if they are not married to have a contract dran up specifying the amount of capital each has put in, should there be a bust up

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 04:51 AM

The other important thing from yesterday's tax webinar is that Capital Gains Tax rates may well be brought in line with Income Tax - with a reduction or even abolition of the annual exemption, currently £12,300. So a jump from 28% to 40% or even 45% is possible. Folks holding assets with considerable potential gains may be advised to sell now to minimise tax!!!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 09:09 AM

however not avoiding paying tax ensures that the gpvernmentcan afford topay nurses moere money, there is a shortage of nurses right now paying more money to nurses might ensure less people die, you think you are giving helpful advice, but your advice is entireley for selfish people, typical of the present conservative administration. why is NHS underfunded, not enough tax payers money, undoubtedly i will be called a childish idiot by the usual suspects ,but what i am advocating is patriotic in the best sense of the word

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 03:29 PM

It would be very prudent to crystalise gains wherever possible - Sandman.If we have a situation where one is sitting on a corporate with pots of cash,

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 03:55 PM

oops, not finished!!

If we have a situation where one is sitting on a corporate with pots of cash, and you're debating whether to do a wind up or not, at the moment if you wound that company up then you are looking at a 20% tax bill on the extraction, assuming that the 10% Entrepreneurs' rate has been used or is not available. Now that is far far cheaper than what might be around the corner.

So instead of winding up, leave the money in the company A, Sandman, then form another company B which will be a property company. Company A will then lend money to company B, to buy property. The beauty of that is the ex trading company is lending which qualities 100% for Business Property Relief, so the shares in the loan company will not be in your estate, so exempt for Inheritance Tax!!

In the property company the shares are in your estate, but the company isn't worth anything because the loans are equal to the property values. If property values do go up, you can use growth shares in the property company, so that any growth goes to the B shares which are owned by your children, Sandman, then you've got a pretty efficient vehicle through to retirement.

The property company will then pay interest on the loan to the lending company which can be paid to the shareholder as dividends, for which the first £2,000 is taxed at 0% Sandman!!!

All in all, good tax planning.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 04:08 PM

"qualities 100% for Business Property Relief" should read "qualifies 100% for Business Property Relief" !!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 06:57 PM

Only a fool does no tax planning, allowances and reliefs are there to be claimed. That is not tax avoidance.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 01:56 AM

tax planning , more new speak , it is tax avoidance you are avoiding paying for NHS SERVICES free bus travel for the elderlyETC only a fool if you cannot see the consequences of these actiomns. you are as patiotic as the owner of the daily mail who is a tax exile

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 01:59 AM

people who help others not to pay tax are helping others to destoy services that are preovided by taxpayers money such as the health service accountancy is an evil trade

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: BobL
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 03:35 AM

I have no problem with paying my fair whack towards those things for which we are all collectively responsible and from which we all directly or indirectly benefit - defence, education, health services and more. But it's the Gov that decides how much I should pay, and if they choose to offer tax relief in particular circumstances, that's part of the deal. Why shouldn't I accept it?

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 03:40 AM

i will take devils advocate here, because in doing so you are responsible for less money coming in to the exchequer, that means if you fall ill and you cannot afford private medicine then you will have poorer health care, the government is saying pay less tax and have the consequences if you fall ill

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 03:47 AM

now at the moment the world has an emergency, if you want to die pay less tax

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 03:53 AM

its the alright i am rich let the poor people die, i can afford private health care feck the poor people let them die.
a lot of people dead in usa, but trumps alright bidens ok too they can afford private heath care

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 04:01 AM

US healthcare
Trump enjoys top Covid care that could cost ordinary Americans millions

Experts say president’s five-star round-the-clock treatment would result ‘catastrophic debt for many people’
Americans pay more for healthcare than any other nation, including during a pandemic. At the same time, Americans rarely know how much a given treatment will cost even as they receive it.
Americans pay more for healthcare than any other nation, including during a pandemic. At the same time, Americans rarely know how much a given treatment will cost even as they receive it. Photograph: Erin Scott/Reuters
Jessica Glenza
Jessica Glenza
@JessicaGlenza
Thu 8 Oct 2020 09.29 BST

Last modified on Fri 9 Oct 2020 18.35 BST

1,858

When most Americans are admitted to the hospital, one concern beyond health is usually at the top of patient’s mind: the cost of their treatment.
At least 22 in Trump’s circle have tested positive for coronavirus
Read more

One American who does not have to worry about this is Donald Trump.

“We have the best medical equipment, we have the best medicines,” said the US president, addressing Americans after he was released from Walter Reed national military medical center, without mentioning the 210,000 Americans killed by Covid-19.

“You’re going to beat it. Don’t let it take over your lives,” he advised.

But Trump was able to skip many of the formalities (and forms) the vast majority of Americans would confront if faced with a similar situation. This may leave many of them wondering – just how much would “the best” medical care have cost me?

The answer, like everything else in American healthcare, is fiendishly complex and very expensive.

“This is truly a catastrophic medical event in terms of going to a hospital and getting lots of specialized care,” said Sara Collins, vice-president for healthcare coverage at the Commonwealth Fund. The result would be for most Americans “catastrophic medical debt for many people”.

Americans pay more for healthcare than any other nation, including during a pandemic. At the same time, Americans rarely know how much a given treatment will cost even as they receive it.

Experts said Trump’s helicopter rides to and from the hospital, diagnostic testing and imaging, experimental prescription drugs, a private suite, round-the-clock care, and additional personal protective equipment required for outings would cost at least hundreds of thousands, and perhaps millions, of dollars.

“I would not be surprised if it were to exceed $1m,” said Dr Bruce Y Lee, a professor at the City University of New York School of Public Health, whose recent work has estimated how much a course of Covid-19 treatment would cost an average American.

Most Americans get care through private insurance. Trump has excellent government insurance and his treatment by the White House Medical Unit is free. Lee used a computational model to assess how much a hospital would charge a regular American’s insurance for Covid-19 treatment. Most insurance would be charged $3,045 over the course of the infection, the model found.

But Trump is not average. He is a high-risk, older man classified as obese, all risk factors for severe disease. Using Lee’s model, someone with Trump’s demographics is more likely to be charged a median $18,579 over the course of a year.

    I would not be surprised if [his care] were to exceed $1m

Bruce Y Lee

Charges vary wildly across the country, though. Hospitals in the American west charge a median of $93,459 to patients in Trump’s age group before negotiated insurance discounts, an analysis by insurance claims database company Fair Health found.

And those are only the most basic costs for treatment of lung-involved disease, such as pneumonia. It does not cover the specialized prescription drugs Trump received.

One of the drugs Trump received was an experimental monoclonal antibody cocktail from Regeneron. This therapy is not available to the public, and may never be approved. Regular Americans cannot access it. Regeneron did not respond to a request for comment on the potential price of the drug.

Monoclonal antibody treatments approved over the last 20 years cost an average of $96,731, according to a study in the Global Journal on Quality and Safety in Healthcare. Trump’s treatment with them would probably cost even more than that, because he took the equivalent of more than three doses of Regeneron’s treatment. So quadruple the cost, because for most medicines, you can’t buy a partial dose. That’s $386,924.

The president also received remdesivir, an antiviral medication with limited availability. Developing countries pay $2,340 per patient for a five-day course of treatment. But, everything healthcare-related is more expensive in the US. The list price for Americans is $3,120 per five-day course.

The cheapest therapy Trump received is dexamethasone, a generic corticosteroid first introduced in the 1950s. At the low range, it costs about $5.

Then there are the helicopter rides. The median charge for an air ambulance was $39,000 in 2016, and Trump took two – $78,000.

There would also probably be charges for any diagnostic testing Trump had, including X-rays and CT scans. An excellent suite and food, which is shown to improve patient outcomes, often costs more. Cleaning services for special outings, like Trump’s motorcade ride, might not be covered. Nor would the cost of personal protective equipment for aides.

“The type of care the president received – there are very, very, very few people in the country, if not the world, who will receive that level of care,” said Lee. “You can’t expect to receive the same types of treatments, the same type of care or potentially the same type of outcomes as the president.”

Insurance would probably cover some, but not all, of the charges listed above. But even if they do, they might not do so right away. Most Americans have a story about a fight with their insurance, which, by the way, is not free.

The average, non-elderly family in America pays $8,200 per year or 11% of their annual income to insurance fees, according to the research group Kaiser Family Foundation. Their employer will also make payments toward insurance, on average around $5,500.

Extraneous costs and the stress of not knowing who will pay them has a phrase in American medicine: “Financial toxicity”. It is often used in discussions of cancer treatment, which are so expensive a remarkable 42.4% of American cancer patients deplete their entire life savings two years after a diagnosis.

And the entire discussion of what insurance would pay is irrelevant if you don’t have insurance, which was the case for 27 million Americans pre-pandemic. Another 12 million have since joined the ranks of the uninsured, thanks to the accompanying economic crisis caused by Covid-19.

Hospitals charge uninsured patients between 1.5-12 times more than what they charge insurance companies, according to a study in Health Affairs. If people do not pay, hospitals can and do pursue patients through courts and credit reporting agencies.

“The majority of Americans don’t have the best treatments, whatever he said, because it’s about access,” said Lee. “The care that he received is available only to a very small minority of Americans.”

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 05:38 AM

You are on your own Sandman, behaving like an idiot as usual!!! What you don't realise from behind your mire is that these reliefs are applied automatically by HMRC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 05:39 AM

If you don't want to get stung a second time, you could always follow Rod Stewart's advice (copied by Stan Laurel in the film Stan and Ollie): "Instead of getting married again, I'm going to find a woman I don't like and just give her a house.”

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 08:44 AM

That is hilarious, must look up the film!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 09:17 AM

Bonzo you are partly responsible for the deaths you help people to avoid tax.I hope you can sleep at night

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 09:21 AM

bonzo , howis the nhs funded if it is not through taxation how are old peoples pensions funded if not through taxation. the less tax that is collected the lessmoney is available for the nhs finally when you have to start insulting people it shows you have lost the argument

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 10:39 AM

So what you are saying Sandman, is that everyone should waive all tax allowances and reliefs granted by Finance Act. You are stark raving bonkers, you are talking absolute drivel.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 10:46 AM

"Only a fool does no tax planning, allowances and reliefs are there to be claimed. That is not tax avoidance."

Oh yes it is Bonzo, but tax avoidance is not illegal.

I think what you mean it is not tax evasion which is.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 10:53 AM

Yes indeed, tax evasion is definitely illegal.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 10:57 AM

if you were a true patriot Bonzo and cared about others, those dying from covid because there are not enough nurses and hospitals because they are underfunded, you would not be encouraging people to aviod tax . less tax collected less treatment available, whay you do may or may not be illegal but it is unethical . you indirectly encourage deaths

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 11:06 AM

typical of the conservative mentality, not thinking about the community in general,immoral and unethical .

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 11:17 AM

So what you are saying Sandman is that it's unethical to claim your personal allowance, marriage allowance, capital gains tax allowance, rent a room allowance, interest tax free allowance, dividend tax free allowance - I could go on???

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 11:24 AM

Are you also saying that if you are self employed you should not claim any expenses against your income???????????

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 11:51 AM

What taxes are you paying, Dick? Do you declare all your busking earnings? Have you got receipts to prove it?

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 12:01 PM

Do people declare any income they get from Youtube posting?

I am lead to believe that a few people earn considerable sums of money for blogs.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 12:18 PM

i do not get any income from you tube postings . i am also an old age pensioner.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 12:24 PM

Bonzo is absolutelely unethical he encourages people to not pay tax, then wonders why the NHSis struggling to cope, meanwhile the owner of the daily mail is a tax exile.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 12:43 PM

I'm a pensioner too, but I pay tax. My good lady is a pensioner and she pays tax.

Being a pensioner does not exclude you from tax.

Strange that earnings from busking was not mentioned though.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Mo the caller
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 01:32 PM

I have no objection to paying my fair share of tax if others do too.
BUT
if I have saved money out of taxed income and the interest is less than inflation I feel aggrieved at being taxed on it
if I buy an asset which increases in nominal value (but not real value) due to inflation I object to paying CGT. Especially as this was changed retrospectively 12 years ago
if my frugal lifestyle means my children have to pay inheritance tax I think the really rich should not escape it with trusts
Not to mention tax havens and multinational like Amazon

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 01:49 PM

At 16 - 18 I wanted to play guitar in rock bands.
My college principle and parents had other ideas.
So I compromised and studied to be an accountant or solicitor as a fall back day job..

After A levels I went up for one disastrous trainee job interview,
before I became absolutely certain
I did not want to be a complete c£$t for the rest of my working life...

The fault for 'legal' tax avoidance lies with the unnecessarily over complex mystification system of bureaucracy
which serves only the vested lucrative interests of the powerful ruling greedy 'professional class'
who devised maintain, and administrate it
on behalf of themselves and morally corrupt wealthy clients.

The tax and benefits system could be drastically simplified, more rational, effective, and fair;
if the will for change was not persistently ignored...

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 01:51 PM

nothing strange at all,
no one has the right to question anyones earnings on a public forum.,
i am not asking Bonzo what he earns as an accountant. accountants generally earn more than folk singers,but that is his PRIVATE business
   neither would i discuss my own or anyone elseS PRIVATE FINANCES including BonzoS earnings,
manitas nasty response is completely out of order
i am not questioning bonzos earnings, or yours or manitas.
i am talking about the ethics of ebncouraging people to not pay tax at a time when the NHS is underfunded
next
i live in ireland,not in england
so as an old age pensioner living in ireland,i do not use the NHS OR CONTIBUTE TAX TOWARDS IT.   
when i had to have medical treatment, in the mid 90s. i had to pay for my stay in hospital, 3 OR 4 days, it cost me 120 euros.
i decided to pay for my HOSPITAL stay, that is my business the HSE has a different system from the NHS
,that is my personal business.

the fsct that i have been out busking once since the lockdown and have been living on my pension is notANYONES yours or manitas business.
i M QUESTIONING THE ETHICS OF ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO AVOID TAX IN THE UKAT THE PRESENT TIME I
I qualify for a uk pension because i paid tax

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Jos
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 02:12 PM

I didn't think Manitas was expecting an answer. Nor did I think he was being nasty. He isn't a nasty person. I took it as just a suggestion that people might examine their own positions before making assumptions about others.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 02:53 PM

Money makes my head go round.

If I got into trying to find ways of paying less tax I reckon it would just spin of my shoulders, and roll off down the road. Won'r risk it.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 02:59 PM

Exactly. I got annoyed at Dick for castigating someone for suggesting that people should take tax relief that is being OFFERED by HMRC. I doubt that anyone on this forum is a millionaire much less a tax evading millionaire. Dick is complaining about the wrong people.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 03:02 PM

i have exaimined my own position i did not maske any assumption about Bonzos finances, that is his private business, although accountants generally earn more than old age pensioners, or when i was a folk singer relying on it for my living.
i get a pension because i paid tax. Jos you can interpret manitas enquiry into my finances how you like, i interpret I as being out of order, nobodys incomes were being discussed and till manitas made his comment which was a red herring and totally irrelevant, thre same applies to raggytash, the answer is i get an english old age pension because i paid my tax in the UK,

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 03:08 PM

Wrong, you get a pension because you paid National Insurance Contributions. If the only income you declare is your state pension, then it is almost certainly covered by your Personal Allowance, which you seem to not want people to claim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 03:19 PM

I don't know if or what pension I'll receive in just over three years..
..hoping I survive the tories and covid...

For a number of years my income is truthfully absolutely zero...

[I have my own reasons for not being able to hold down a 'job',
and won't be accountable to over officious state minions or public opinion].

I reluctantly and angrily opted out of the benefit system ages ago.

My teacher wife was deemed to earn too much for me to get a penny in any benefits.
Despite tory austerity devaluing her salary so much
we exist on precarious credit...

I could however have signed on for NI credits,
but if I did, I have been forced to put up with all the same coercive bullying
pointless time wasting micky mouse back to work schemes,
and stigma,
of all the poor folks struggling to claim full living benefits...

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 03:21 PM

"I'd have been forced..."

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 03:30 PM

Actually, if I'm nearly 62 now.. what will be my retirement age...???

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 04:23 PM

At least 66 possibly higher by the time you get to 66 Punkfolkrocker.

Had my good lady been just 4 months older she would have qualified for a full state pension at the age of 60. As it is she had to wait a full 6 years and 1 month before she got the pension she had paid into since she was 16.

As the full state pension is now £164.35 per week she has effective been denied the equivalent of £51,000+ for which she contributed week in week out, month after month, year after year.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Jos
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 04:35 PM

I think you may find that the 'full state pension' paid to those who retired at 60 is considerably less than £164.35 a week.
If not, I have been underpaid for years.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 04:41 PM

I defer to your greater knowledge Jos.

However I doubt if over the remainder of her life she will pick up the £51,000.