Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 05:11 AM

Well Ok! After 30 years of working for the BBC I was aware that there was a gaping chasm between what small amount of brains they have and their 'on air' mouth. I was also aware that the gap was called complete stupidity, but Paddy O'Connell (Radio 4) has just excelled the BBC's miserable record for mindless piffle.
Reporting upon the subject of this thread, he decided to demonstrate a Sea Chanty. What did he choose? Did he go for former BBC employees Bert Lloyd, or Ewan McColl. NO! of course not. Did he grab a recording of The Fisherman's Friends? NO! don't be silly! Did he play the interview with our singer from Scotland? NO! what ever for!
What did the BBC s##t weasel play? Rambling Sid Rumpo, just so he could ridicule the whole story. In this context it was about as funny as an STD on your wedding night. Well done Beeb! Another triumph of of unbiased journalism. Don't worry I promise I'll take two of my red pills and lie down in a darkened room.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Catamariner
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 09:52 PM

There are older western chanteys too, as there has been rhythmic work to do aboard ships for a considerable time. I think "Haul on the Bowline" was considered one of the oldest in English. As for "sea songs," those one might actually sing in an off hour for entertainment would be called forebitters.

There is a subset of shanties from the iron-ship era and another set that have African influences from the American age of sail. But what charmed me in December (well, what with various covid-19 restrictions, I needed entertainment) was discovering, in the Rihla of Ibn Battuta, the following description of a rather ceremonial and clearly not very Islamic drinking bout at the court of Ozbeg Khan (a Turkish sultan): "During all this [ceremony], they sing [songs resembling the] chants sung by oarsmen." [HAR Gibb, the Travels of Ibn Battuta 1325 - 1354, Vol 2, p 480] So, drinking and bursting into sea chanteys has a long and glorious history... well, long, anyway :-)

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 08:15 PM

NPR Weekend Edition (click) had a nice story this morning about the TikTok sea chantey phenomenon. It's a 4-minute listen.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 08:15 PM

Steve,

Apologizes if I sounded a little flip earlier responding to your valid point. Insomnia!

It's definitely something worth clarifying, or rather, being clear about when possible.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 07:20 PM

I do see grok here and there.

I really like the one song the hoopla started over.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: meself
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 06:22 PM

I wonder if Gibb's journalist got a little more than he bargained for? Great stuff, nonetheless!

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Felipa
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 06:19 PM

not just one chantey - I looked at one of the articles about the revival of shanties which showed a clip from TikTok of Nathan singing What will we do with the drunken sailor.

Gordon Bok recording of Wellerman

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: RTim
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 05:52 PM

To interject and move away from all Chanty/Shanty stuff....

GROK - is a very nice Croatian white wine from Lumbarda on Korcula - crisp and great with seafood.......that is as close as it gets to Chanties.....

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 05:00 PM

re: grok
I do see it now & then. But is seldom used with the depth of meaning Heinlein attributed it in "Stranger..."
from Wiki:...."Grok means "to understand," of course, but Dr. Mahmoud, who might be termed the leading Terran expert on Martians, explains that it also means, "to drink" and "a hundred other English words, words which we think of as antithetical concepts. 'Grok' means all of these. It means 'fear,' it means 'love,' it means 'hate'—proper hate, for by the Martian 'map' you cannot hate anything unless you grok it, understand it so thoroughly that you merge with it and it merges with you—then you can hate it. By hating yourself. But this implies that you love it, too, and cherish it and would not have it otherwise. Then you can hate—and (I think) Martian hate is an emotion so black that the nearest human equivalent could only be called mild distaste."

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 04:18 PM

Wow! Mega respect to Gibb.

9 'papers' to download at Academia and all chock full of the most detailed background to the history of chantying. Well worth a look for anyone vaguely interested and with plenty of time for some serious reading. You'll be glad to know I won't be appearing here for a few days, I'll be too busy soaking it up.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Felipa
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 04:08 PM

Mrrzy - Do people other than you still say "grok", and if so, where?
shades of Heinlein Stranger in a a Strange Land

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 03:44 PM

I thought it looked familiar on the site. It didn't say ACADEMIA anywhere and I hadn't spotted the PDF option. Silly me! Got it now and the other chanty related items. Many thanks, Gibb. Tonight's reading sorted.

Here's the Bailey Bros & Swinfen text from 1973.

There was a ship that put to sea.
The name of the ship was the Billy of Tea.
The winds blew up, her bow dipped down
O blow my bully boys blow

Chorus: Soon may the Wellerman come,
And bring us sugar and tea and rum,
One day when th' tonguin' is done
We'll take our leave and go.

She had not been two weeks from shore
When down on her a (w)right whale bore.
The captain called all hands and swore
He'd take that whale in tow.

Before the boat had hit the water,
The whale's tail came up and caught her.
All hands to the side, harpooned and fought her
When she dived down below.

No line was cut, no whale was freed.
The captain's mind was not of greed,
But he belonged to the whalemen's creed
She took the ship in tow.

Forty days or even more
The line went slack. Then tight once more.
All boats were lost (there were only four)
But still the whale did go.

As far as I've heard the fight's still on.
The line's not cut and the whale's not gone.
The Wellerman makes his regular call
To encourage the captain crew and all.

Just an opinion but I'd say this is more 1970 than 1830. I write similar pieces myself having done the research. That would also fit in with much of the other material in the book. The first 2 lines are adapted from Golden Vanity and the 4th line is the well-known chanty chorus which might well be why some people are calling it a chanty. It's certainly in the vein of the Wonderful Crocodile and similar pieces of the 1830s, but you could say that about some of my songs.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 03:22 PM

...and on Facebook, John Roberts posted a scan of the original songbook version. I copied it, but Mudcat requires a remote link. I might put it on Dropbox or Google Drive...

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 02:07 PM

"Wellerman" seems to be the megahit of this craze. It IS fun to sing, and it's nice to see people making multi-voice recordings. No doubt, we'll be getting scads of threads requesting the lyrics, and scads of other threads telling us we're singing it wrong.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 12:48 PM

I was able to print it after downloading the PDF... which seems to require at a minimum the free membership in Academia.edu.

Google gave me security warnings because downloading required allowing Academia to access my google account. I saw no danger, so said 'yes'.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 12:38 PM

I have to say I do like the versiin ofthe song that all the hoopla is about. I just don't grok the hoopla.
But hey. Pandemic. I grok a total lack of needing to grok what keeps others sane.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 12:30 PM

Tim and Steve - Thanks for checking it out! Download the PDF, should solve your issue. I'm guessing you just read the webpage preview.

Steve - It's not a paper. See the note at the beginning ;) Was a one-off summary response to a journalist's questions.

Not saying those things were called chanties. Chanties weren't even called chanties most of the time! (most is called song or chant)--yet we read about unnamed songs and call them "chanties" because that's our name for that thing, expedience. Saying they are same form of song. A rose by any other name.

Didn't go into details on nomenclature, but I do that in the published 'The Execrable Term' article linked. Have another brief paper on non-sea songs at that Academia.edu site. Unpublished stuff. Haven't had time to put any of that in publishable form for last 3 years as I've been all about Punjabi music!!! :-)

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: RTim
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 11:59 AM

I too had a problem printing Gibb's paper...could read it, but not print....

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 10:51 AM

Wonder how many people expressing their opinions on Chanties/Shanty's or whatever you may want to call them have ever actually worked at sea on the deck of a ship, handled sail, or manned pumps or capstans. My guess would be very few of them.

I have actually done all of those things at various times in my life and not once was anything done to song, so I would tend to agree with
- EBarnacle Date: 15 Jan 21 - 05:21 PM. Too much going on and far too many things to concentrate on, for any singing.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Felipa
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 10:44 AM

there's another article in The Guardian now
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jan/16/how-a-scottish-posties-simple-sea-shanty-struck-a-global-chord

Nathan's singing is nice!

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 10:04 AM

GerryM aha that answers my niggling feeling of familiarity given lack of tiktok!

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 09:52 AM

Hi Gibb and welcome.
Awesome account. I just have one very minor quibble.
You appear to be saying that the river songs, stevedore songs and rowing songs should be called chanties. That they evolved into chanties is indisputable and some may even be visually the same song in one genre and the other. However I have always thought the actual word 'chanty' was only ever used to apply to the marine type and that quite a while later. Have you any evidence that actual word was used for any of them other than those used at sea? I know I'm nit-picking but I feel it's important to make this clear in your wonderful paper.

Also I tried unsuccessfully to print it off. I wonder if you would be so kind as to send me a copy I can print off please? If you've lost my email address I'll pm you.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Felipa
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 08:54 AM

There was an item on BBC Radio (I forget was I listening to radio 4 or radio Ulster, but I think the latter) about the growing popularity of shanties, including newly composed shanties. People like singing along on the choruses. I don't think TikTok was mentioned. The item included some pleasant singing.

I know some sailing enthusiasts sing shanties, but on the whole they are one of a number of types of working songs which have become entertainment/art songs divorced from the work which has changed so much since the songs were employed.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 08:09 AM

I haven't heard ANY chanties on TikTok ;)

But I did write this, sure to irk some people:

https://www.academia.edu/44914351/A_Statement_During_the_January_2021_ShantyTok_

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 07:51 AM

FAKE NEWS

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,The Sandman
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 05:27 AM

I think this sort of exposure is really good for the music, neither has the original singer sung the song in a way that is very commercialised, for the song to get to many people and be sung as he did is good

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 06:04 PM

Hi EB
Coincidentally I've just been reading through Stan's Bosun's Locker articles and he says what I've always thought, Chanties were very scarce in the North Sea and in the coasters, partly because crews were so small and partly because they were mostly fore and aft rig and didn't need the heaving and hauling. When are we talking about with Peking? Certainly the tall ships into the 20s were still chantying according to Alan Villiers.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 05:47 PM

Article with a bunch of TicTok videos. You may never want to hear The Wellerman again, ever, but who knows.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: EBarnacle
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 05:21 PM

Back in the 70's I had chance to chat with Irving Johnson of Yankee fame, as well as the filmer of "Peking Battles Cape Horn." He had sailed where the chanteys would have been sung in the last age of commercial sail. He said that neither in the brigantine Yankee nor aboard Peking did anyone work to chanteys. On Peking there were too few sailors to spare a useful hand or breath for chanteys and on Yankee the sails were too small.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:27 PM

I'm a great fan of knowing history and 'original' lyrics... when such things are possible to ascertain. There are songs... including shanties/chanties... that we can come pretty close to the originals. Some things by Burns have entered the realm of folk/trad, but some things just appeared in various eras and probably had several versions before collectors ever encountered them... including F.J. Child, Stan Hugill and Joanna Colcord etc.

   It IS possible to distinguish between items and versions which are really folk/trad (i.e. were popularized before recordings made them well-known) and songs and versions which owe their fame to 78s, LPs and CDs since 1927 or so. I do appreciate it when that difference is noted, but it's useless to waste much time making it an issue unless someone actually asks and cares. The recent noise about "The Wellerman" is one opportunity to make a few inroads.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:13 PM

Absolutely, Jeri
Groups get a helluvalot o' fun out o' singing 'em, and audiences seem to enjoy listening, but choosing your audience carefully it doesn't hurt to give out a bit of info now and again.

To all the folks on the Interweb it doesn't matter diddly squat whether Wellerman is a chanty or not as long as they're enjoying it, and it's certainly giving us a lot of publicity even if it is drastically misinformed. Mick, one of our lead singers, was blowing away on local radio and getting us a lot of publicity this very morning because of it.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:43 PM

Because I've had to infrquently deal with musical control freaks: if we required historical authenticity, nobody would be singing a se shanty unless they were on a ship, doing the job. Sea songs such as The Wellerman are a different story.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:35 PM

'Twas in January, the year of '42 and we had just left the Gulf and had set our course for Liverpool when we encountered one o' them there sudden squalls. The mate yells out above the screeching wind, "All hands aloft and get them sails reefed. Last man on the rigging gets my rope end!'

Suddenly up steps Harry the Historian. "Hang on, chaps, before you go up there I need to tell you how those chanties came about you're a-going to sing out!"

Splash!

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 02:03 PM

It wasn't encumbent on seamen to know anything other than about how to operate a ship, but they WERE the 'history'. They were living it!

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: meself
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 01:05 PM

Well ... I imagine not all of the early shantymen knew much of the history of things, so ... *shrug* ....

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 12:34 PM

Steve Gardham knows whereof he speaks...
( I subscribe to Ballad-) If YOU want to sing something, be my guest. It IS nice if you have some idea of the history of things, but *shrug*...

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:51 AM

The Guardian has a piece about the TikTok shanty phenomenon.

Subject: Tech: Sea shanties on TikTok
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:04 AM

Apparently the social media site TikTok is thronged with people singing sea shanties at the moment. Here's a rather nice one, The Wellerman, with extra added mechanical baritone for depth.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,guest The Sandman
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 09:20 AM

Jeri , that is fantastic

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 09:17 AM

The "at least 600 years old" thing IS stupid*, but whattchagonnado? Has anyone written out the music for harp and lute yet?

* in fourteen hundred and ninety two, Columbus's syphilitic crew
Sang a shanty, one or two
As anyone on ship will do
Roll it up in little balls and heave away.
(I'm done)

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 09:03 AM

Ignorance is bliss!!!! Where is Gibb when you need him?

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 05:02 AM

Sorry for the cross-posting there

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:59 AM

And another one from the Guardian today:

The true story behind the viral TikTok sea shanty hit

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: DaveRo
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:57 AM

Today's Guardian:
The true story behind the viral TikTok sea shanty hit

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:14 AM

What are sea shanties and why are they going viral online?

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,guest The Sandman
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:37 AM

Ray, I have chosen to log out. My choice
when i see you hopefully at Saltburn.I will explain

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 02:30 AM

Have you all lost your membership or are you just mudcat part times? some times you lose membership due to pc changes

Ray

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 02:28 AM

well done, Gerry.

look what the State Library of New South Wales (the state where Gerry & I live) tweeted today, looks like an answer to the question on subreddit "What instruments do I need to write for a sea shanty"

For all you #SeaShanty singers out there, here are a couple of tunes

direct links to the 2 books in the tweet
Sea shanties [music] / arranged with pianoforte accompaniment by William G. James
Sea shanty [music] : piano solo / John Giles

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,guest The Sandman
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 02:23 AM

Jeri congratulations on fixing your post, as a moderator might i give you the honour of a silver star, go to the top of the class

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GerryM
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 01:53 AM

I sang Soon May the Wellerman Come at the Mudcat singaround a couple of weeks ago. That must be what kicked off the current craze.