BS: Bank Branch Closures

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Sep 22 - 01:07 PM

Quite

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 05 Sep 22 - 08:16 PM

From The Guardian

More ‘banking hubs’ to open across UK to tackle branch and ATM closures

"More shared “banking hubs” are to be rolled out across the UK to help communities hit by branch and ATM closures to get continued access to cash.

A banking hub is a shared service that operates in a similar way to a standard branch, with a counter service run by Post Office staff where customers of almost any bank can withdraw and deposit cash, make bill payments and carry out regular transactions.

There are also private spaces where customers can speak to someone, with trained specialists from different banks available on different days.

The additional 13 hubs announced on Tuesday take the total number planned to 25. However, of the first wave of 12 hubs, only two are in operation: in Rochford in Essex and Cambuslang, on the edge of Glasgow.

The other 10 already announced are expected to open over the next few months. It is understood that in some cases it has been taking longer than anticipated to find a suitable property for the shared branch or get the selected building ready."

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And this bit, which did make me smile.

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"The Cash Action Group includes senior representatives from big banks including Barclays, HSBC, Lloyds and NatWest.

The action group and Link said the Rochford and Cambuslang hubs “have proved extremely popular, with usage more than doubling since they have opened”.

They added: “As the impact of the cost of living crisis becomes increasingly apparent, the hubs are likely to become an ever more important resource, particularly in communities with minimal or limited cash access or banking facilities.”"

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Sep 22 - 02:18 AM

How interesting Rain Dog! So despite all the closing branches, the banks' employees are finding work in 'hubs'? I wonder if Norwich is due to have one? Perhaps it might be an idea to have just one single 'Bank company' throughout the UK, with one branch in each town, a sort of amalgamation/conglomerate? 'THE Bank'.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 31 Jul 23 - 03:23 AM

From The Guardian today

UK banks are closing more than 1,000 accounts every day

"Banks are closing more than 1,000 accounts every working day, according to new data that has fuelled the growing row over so-called “debanking” and prompted Nigel Farage to call for a royal commission to investigate what he said was a scandal.

Hours after the former Ukip leader revealed he was spearheading a website to campaign on behalf of people whose accounts had been shut, data revealed a big jump in the numbers of customers dumped by their bank."

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Since i first posted, HSBC have now closed in town. That does leave us with NatWest, Lloyds, Nationwide, Santander and the Post Office. Luckier than most.

I do still use my NatWest branch every week and there are always other customers there too.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 28 Mar 24 - 07:21 AM

Received a letter from NatWest today, telling me that their Dover branch will be closing 16th July.

I was at the bank yesterday and as usual there were other customers using the bank. Nearly 99‰ of the times I visit the bank, there are customers waiting to speak to a member of staff.

With the branch closing it will mean one less ATM in the town.

Nearest NatWest branch is in Folkestone, 7.4 miles away. I might have to reconsider applying for my bus pass.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Mar 24 - 07:30 AM

I got a letter saying my branch in Rainham, Kent, is closing. Since I haven't lived near there for around forty years, it has been the branches near where I have lived that has affected me more.

Quite I lot of places nearby have a travelling bank that arrives once a week then departs half an hour later. Not exactly a long time if more than one person has a matter to discuss.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Mar 24 - 02:03 PM

Years ago in New Jersey, they closed the "Long Branch branch" of the "Red Bank bank".

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 03 Apr 24 - 08:00 PM

A huge number of bank closures around here in the last few years, but escalating in the last 2-3 years. Royal Bank of Scotland, Bank of Scotland, Santander and others. We now have to either drive 8 miles west to Livingston or jump on a bus to central Edinburgh - 45 minute ride ( don’t even think about taking your car into town!)
I have probably been guilty of encouraging this trend, by taking up internet banking a good few years ago. But now, if you want to make a bigger payment or withdrawal, it seems you either have to spend hours on the phone and subject yourself to the Spanish Inquisition or go to a branch and subject yourself to the same. We recently had some roof repairs done which cost a good few thousand, and we had the money in the bank. Checked the bank website for how much were allowed to pay in a single payment - up to £25,000, it said, well more than enough - went to pay the bill online - payment refused, account locked, VERY long phone call to get account unlocked and payment made. THEN they tell us there’s a £5000 limit on any individual transaction! This had NEVER been previously advised to us by email, letter, leaflet or any other means. Of course it’s because of all these scammers about, as well as the banks now being told that they do have to reimburse customers who have lost money to scammers. But it’s hard on those of us trying to make a totally legitimate transaction with OUR money!

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Apr 24 - 10:42 PM

My banking changed a lot during COVID; I switched over to using the app on my phone to deposit checks instead of driving by the credit union. I get cash from their ATMs on occasion, though I shop for my ex often and he pays me back with cash so I have enough for walking around in my wallet.

Coins - I rarely handle them. They go into my back jeans pocket and when I get home are dropped into a box in the kitchen. One of these days I'll have to take them somewhere (rolled up by me first) and exchange them for bills.

Tying into what Tattie said, I was in the credit union one day and the customer in front of me was trying to get cash for gift cards and it was clear to the teller that they were being purchased because the customer was being scammed, but she had to be careful in telling him what she could and couldn't do as far as his request. Heartbreaking.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 18 Jul 24 - 09:30 AM

The NatWest branch in Dover closed yesterday. When I posted in March, I was not aware that Lloyds had previously announced the closure of their brancb in Dover. We are left with Santander, Nationwide and the Post Office.

I was not aware of Banking Framework 3.
From Money Saving Expert February 2022

Post Office Inks Deal to Continue Banking Services for 3 Years

"Customers of most of the UK’s largest banks and building societies will keep their ability to complete basic personal and business banking tasks at Post Office counters until the end of 2025, providing crucial access to cash on high streets vacated by bank branches.

The Post Office announced on Monday that it had secured a new deal with 30 major banks after months of negotiation. Under Banking Framework 3, which will run for three years from the beginning of 2023, customers of those banks will be able to deposit and withdraw cash, deposit cheques, and make balance queries at the Post Office’s 11,500 counters across the UK."

This part caught by eye

"However, some bank executives on Friday predicted that Banking Framework 3 would be the final deal struck with the Post Office, as the disappearance of cash will eliminate the need for physical banking locations.

“Ongoing demand for cash is debatable and continues to fall rapidly,” an unnamed banking boss told Sky News. “Most people think cash will have largely disappeared in three years.”"

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There is no doubt that demand for cash has fallen. Some of us might well think that one of the reasons it has fallen is down to banking practices.

I also suspect that banking fraud has risen with the increase in online banking. Swings and roundabouts.

I am surprised that there does not appear to be much public debate about the fall in cash transactions. Will have to wait and see what happens from 1st January 2026.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 19 Jul 24 - 09:30 AM

I hear reports that youngsters these days have to have the concept of cheques explained to them, as they've never encountered them in real life. How long before the same is true of bank notes :-( ?

.... Long, long ago (1960s or 1970s), there was a cartoon in Practical Electronics which showed a tramp pulling his pockets inside-out. The caption was: "A member of the cashless society?" Given today's kerfuffle with Microsoft systems getting lunched and taking pay-by-card with them, that cartoon displayed considerable foresight.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 19 Jul 24 - 03:47 PM

I agree that the younger generation are just used to managing without cards. I know that there does seem to be a tendency to make us all go cashless. I am not happy with the fact that we are not really having a discussion about it.

Today was a great example with various computer systems experiencing problems. Earlier this week some of the supermarkets were unable to process card transactions. There was a staff member outside my supermarket telling customers it was cash only payments. I asked her if she had drawn the short straw for that job.

Banks close. Businesses have problems depositing cash. Businesses decide to go cashless.

Here in town, some of the smaller businesses are cash only. I assume this is probably due to the charges involved with card payments. That can be quite a considerable cost for the business.

We will have to wait and see how the banks and the government proceed next year, when the current arrangement with the Post Office comes to an end.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 03:26 AM

An article in The Guardian led me to the Payment Choice Alliance (PCA),

On their page they had an article on how Sweden was dealing with the situation.

Sweden’s Far From Accidental “Cashless” Journey Is HALTED By The Swedish Government

It is a short article, updated 26.6.24, about how the Swedish Government is taking measures to ensure that cash is still available. It seems that back in 2018, some were saying Sweden was on course to be cashless by 2023.

I thought i would check online for further details. I was a little surprised to find a spate of recent articles like the following from Fortune, dated 21.6.24

Why going cashless has turned Sweden from one of the safest countries into a high-crime nation

Guess you reap what others sew.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 05:26 AM

speaking of cheques as we were -
shortly before I retired in 2007 I read in the OVERHEARD column in a
local paper (a real paper!)
First girl - I did jury duty & they gave me this nice bookmark.
2nd girl - that's not a bookmark, it's a cheque, take it to your bank & they'll give you money for it!

Last week I bought a very yummy croissant at a small coffee shop/bakery that only takes cash!

It's getting harder to get cash here with all the branch & ATM closures, tho private ATMs are around which charge for the privilege of giving out cash! My small bank only has one branch now - Head Office in the CBD, just down the road from me, but I get cash from my local supermarket.

And our Post Office branches also offer banking services for some banks.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 06:10 AM

I imagine that the situation in Australia is a lot harder due to the size of the country and the remoteness of some of the communities.

Here in the UK most of the ATMs are provided by LINK , a not for profit organisation.

From Wikipedia:

"As of 2023, there were about 38,500 free to use cash machines and 11,000 cash machines that charge for withdrawals. Typically, around £1.6billion is withdrawn from LINK ATMs each week. The average withdrawal is around £82 and the average UK adult withdraws around £1,500. In the UK, around 90% of cash withdrawals are made from cash machines."

And

"LINK is made up of 32 member organisations. These include high street banks (such as Barclays, HSBC, Lloyds Bank and NatWest) and building societies (such as Nationwide and the Coventry Building Society), the Post Office and independent ATM operators."

So, as long as my bank remain a member, I should be able to access free cash withdrawals.

Just have to wait see how much longer the banks will continue to provide this service.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 07:04 AM

people & businesses in small country towns have huge problems when the bank leaves. The nearest bank could be 30 to 100 Km away & folk who head to the bank might also buy their groceries there, too ...

a search on "bank closures in country towns" brought up lots of reports in regional newspapers!

Country towns banking on branch closure inquiry report
Parliament of Australia - Bank closures in regional Australia REPORT - May 2024

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 07:55 AM

Thanks for those links, Sandra. It is a problem that is affecting a lot of countries. Banks are a major part of the social fabric. The fact that they are private businesses does make it more difficult to make them accept their social responsibilities.

Covid certainly played a part in the increasing use of cashless methods of payment. Before that, every bank seemed intent on persuading customers to do more online. They say customers want to do more online banking. That is largely a result of banking policy.

I do realise that the vast majority of online customers are happy with that service most of the time. It is when problems arise when people might be happier dealing with a member of staff rather than a chatbot.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 11:09 AM

When Herself asks why her bank is reducing their counter staff,* she's told it's because everybody does Internet banking. Her pointed comment is that people wouldn't need to do Internet banking if there were enough counter staff.

Personally, I suspect those telling her this forget to add "for sufficiently sloppy values of *everybody*".

* Usually when the machines in the bank are feeling grumpy.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 23 Jul 24 - 11:14 AM

I did email NatWest about the closure of the Dover branch and the 'push' towards online banking generally. Yesterday I received a phone call from the Folkestone branch and had a 15 minute conversation about modern banking practices and grumpy old men. It was quite a wide ranging chat. We did not agree on a number of matters but I appreciated their willingness to take the time to speak to me.

Of course I would have been more appreciative if they said they were going to reverse their decision to close the Dover branch.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 24 Jul 24 - 01:51 AM

Article in The Guardian today

Surprise jump in number of UK people mainly using cash for daily spending

"Banking body reports increase to 1.5m in 2023 – the highest since before Covid – despite move to cashless society

There has been an unexpected jump in the number of people who mainly use notes and coins for their daily spending, despite the UK moving closer to becoming a cashless society, a report has found.

The volume of contactless and mobile payments increased last year, while the number of cash payments resumed a downward trajectory after enjoying a brief comeback in 2022, the banking body UK Finance noted in its annual report on the UK payments market.

However, there was a 66% increase in the number of people who prefer to use cash for their everyday spending.

The estimated number of “mainly use cash” people has fallen every year for several years and stood at 900,000 in 2022, but it leapt to 1.5 million last year – the highest figure since before the coronavirus pandemic.

UK Finance said the increase may reflect those people who have gone back to using cash to help manage their finances during the cost of living crisis.

Last year there was a rise in interest in a budgeting trend called “cash stuffing” – or the cash envelope system – made popular on social media. This involves dividing cash into envelopes labelled into different categories such as groceries, bills, a rainy day and Christmas shopping. The idea is that it helps cash-strapped households keep track of their spending and saving."

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The UK Finance report can be found here

One third of UK adults now use mobile contactless payments

"Key figures for 2023

The total number of payments made in the UK increased by five per cent to 48.1 billion 

Almost four out of ten (38 per cent) of all payments made in the UK during 2023 were contactless

One third of UK adults were using mobile contactless payments at least once a month

The number of cash payments fell to six billion, with cash representing 12 per cent of all payments made in the UK

Faster Payments overtook Direct Debit to become the third most used payment type in the UK in 2023

In 2023 the total number of payments made in the UK was 48.1 billion, up from 45.7 billion in 2022.

Consumers made 85 per cent of the total number of payments (41.0 billion payments) with businesses (commercial firms, government, and not-for-profit organisations) making the other 15 per cent (7.1 billion payments). "


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Onward and upward or onward and downward?

Penny for your thoughts?

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jul 24 - 11:42 PM

”Last year there was a rise in interest in a budgeting trend called “cash stuffing” – or the cash envelope system – made popular on social media. This involves dividing cash into envelopes labelled into different categories such as groceries, bills, a rainy day and Christmas shopping. The idea is that it helps cash-strapped households keep track of their spending and saving."

Exactly what my hard-up mum and dad used to do back in the ‘50s and ‘60s except, instead of envelopes, they used tins labelled e.g. ‘Gas’, ‘Electricity’, ‘Rent’, etc., etc.

As the saying goes, “There’s nothing new under the sun…” (Ecclesiastes, 1:9)

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Rain Dog
Date: 26 Jul 24 - 06:12 AM

Article from The Guardian yesterday

Future of 1p and 2p pieces in doubt after Treasury orders no new coins

"Treasury officials have for the first time ordered no new coins to be minted for general circulation, putting the future of the 1p and 2p pieces in doubt.

The government has not placed an annual order with the Royal Mint and does not expect to order any new 1p and 2p coins in the coming years, the Evening Standard reported.

Treasury officials are reported to be considering a number of options including scrapping those coins altogether as the use of cash declines across society.

A spokesperson for HM Treasury told the Standard: “The Royal Mint produces coins according to expected demand, existing buffer stocks and orders placed by industry.

“We are confident there are enough coins in the system, with estimates of approximately 27bn in circulation in the UK. The Treasury has no current plans to change the mix of UK coins.”

Proposals over the future of 1p and 2p are expected to be put forward for discussions with ministers.

Britain’s currency decimalisation was introduced in 1971 when Edward Heath was prime minister.

A coin has not been taken out of circulation in the UK since the half-penny was removed in 1984.

New 2p coins have not been minted since 2021, according to the most recent figures from the Royal Mint, while none were made between 2018 and 2020."

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When they do disappear it will result in a small increase in prices. I don't expect them to be around for much longer.

I am still in mourning for the tanner going in 1980 and the decimal ha'penny going in 1984.

I don't think I ever recovered from the loss of lsd.

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 26 Jul 24 - 08:45 AM

from Australian Mint website

Although both coins were withdrawn from circulation commencing in February 1992, they are still legal tender. This means that they can still be used to purchase goods and can be deposited with financial institutions in the normal manner.

Once the 1 cent and 2 cent piece were removed from circulation they were recycled for new and exciting purposes. The Bronze medals given out at the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games were made of the 1 and 2 cent pieces!
~~~~~

I have a non-collection of foreign coins I've been given in change over the years & it includes three Oz coins - one is a 1961 shilling, & the others are 1 cent coins. I really must downsize it to a coin collecting friend. It also includes a real US $5 note - dunno where that came from. Wot a shame I didn't remember it a few years back when friends went to America.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Bank Branch Closures
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Jul 24 - 02:09 PM

Rain Dog: A coin has not been taken out of circulation in the UK since the half-penny was removed in 1984.

I know you're just quoting the Guardian, so the words are theirs, not yours.

It should be that "the denominations have remained the same since 1984".
Coins have been taken out of circulation ('demonetised') in that time.
The larger 10p & 5p were demonetised in the early 90s, as were the florin (two shillings = 10p) and shilling (=5p) at that time.
The 'large' 50p was demonetised in 1998, and the 'round pound' in 2017.