BS: UK property trust funds

Subject: BS: UK property trust funds
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 08:14 AM

Have any of the UK members got their property or assetts in trust? I know that this needs specialist legal and financial advice so I am not asking for that. I am just wondering if anyone has done it or if you have any anecdotal evidence for or against.

FWIW my Mother had her property put in trust when she remarried to ensure her new husband's family did not have any claim. That all worked out OK and the local authority did not pursue any clain of deliberate deprivation of assetts when she went into care. We are wowndering if it is worth going down the same path but it may not be as easy now.

Subject: RE: BS: UK property trust funds
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 10:50 AM

Family trusts are set up here - if I ever get my act together I should do that - and you can see that status because in property records instead of "John and Jane Doe, 123 Smith Street, Anycity, US" it will show "Doe Family Trust, etc."

Here it's a matter of filing and (probably) paying a fee for the processing. Paying an attorney of course, which is why more people probably don't do it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK property trust funds
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 11:11 AM

The complication here, Stilly, is funding for long term care. Although our NHS provides health care from cradle to grave, that does not cover social care for such things as dementia. A local authority can claim costs against your assetts, including property. If someone is still living in the house they cannot claim it but if, for instance, I was to snuff it and in later years my wife had to go into care, the local authority could insist that the house be sold to pay for care. If it is in trust they cannot but they may try to claim that we put the house in trust to avoid care costs and force a sale anyway! As I said earlier, it does need professional legal advice as it is a minefield but thanks for the input anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: UK property trust funds
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 11:30 AM

Here the family trust helps avoid the nonsense that probate can bring on. It also means no other family members can come in and contest a will.

Subject: RE: BS: UK property trust funds
From: Rain Dog
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 11:33 AM

Here in the UK the 'problem' of long term social care has been ignored by various governments over the years. They prefer to leave it for someone else to deal with it. Boris says he has a plan but we will have to wait and see how true that is.

It is the sort of 'problem' that requires cross party agreement on a long term solution. Hard to see that happening anytime soon.

Subject: RE: BS: UK property trust funds
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 07:34 PM

The local authorities have considerable powers of investigation if they suspect that you're doing things to set assets aside in order to avoid care costs, and they can be pretty arbitrary. Be aware!

Subject: RE: BS: UK property trust funds
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Aug 21 - 08:24 AM

Best way to avoid care costs is to be ill. My dear departed mother in law (and of all the mothers in law - she was one of them, which always made her laugh!!) was diagnosed with a form of skin cancer and so received free social care.

Subject: RE: BS: UK property trust funds
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Aug 21 - 06:22 PM

That's true, Bonzo. Sad that dementia doesn't seem to count as an illness!

Subject: RE: BS: UK property trust funds
From: Rain Dog
Date: 10 Aug 21 - 07:42 AM

From The Guardian newspaper.

Predatory financial tactics are putting the very survival of the UK care system at risk

The competitive, for-profit model means investor returns have become more important than quality care and worker pay

Rest of the article here

Interesting comments after the article.

Social care has been ignored by the main parties for far too long. It is hard to see that changing anytime soon. The costs of dealing with covid will have a long term effect on spending plans whichever party is in charge.

Subject: RE: BS: UK property trust funds
From: Allan Conn
Date: 10 Aug 21 - 11:01 AM

Trusts can be used for making sure your money goes where you want it to go too. Not just property. Unlike in England you can't just write your children out of your will in Scotland. They are legally entitled to their percentage of moveable assets - that is money, investments etc etc etc. So if you were a widower and died leaving 100% of your cash/investments etc to a new girlfriend or the cat home in your will it doesn't affect your children's rights. At least a third and up to a half would go to them before the will takes effect. Writing an investment it in Trust though takes it out of the estate.

Subject: RE: BS: UK property trust funds
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Aug 21 - 07:36 AM

Decision made - We are going for a protective property trust. This is a trust written in to the will where, when one partner dies, half the property goes into trust for the offspring or whover else you nominate. This has the advantage of taking that section of the property out of the estate so it is not classed as an asset of the surviving partner although they are entitled to live in it for the rest of their days. When both pass away, the trust becomes the property of the remaining trustees. Other advantages are that you can still raise capital on it, you can move house and the trust is not subject to probate. I have taken advice from a solicitor who had nothing to gain or lose with the advice.

Alan - You raise an interesting point. I know that property laws are different in Scotland so I would be interested to know about that for a friend of mine who lives north of the border.