Subject: RE: Penguin: Banks Of Green Willow From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 24 Nov 07 - 02:21 PM Bronson's notes indicate multiple Sharp collections, from Overd, Mrs. Milton and the Mrs White and Hooper. Probably more than one version from Overd; Malcolm Douglas says Sharp collected nine versions in Somerset. |
Subject: RE: Penguin: Banks Of Green Willow From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 24 Nov 07 - 02:07 PM "See how my love do tumble" starts the verse in "Classic English Folk Songs," Ed. R. Vaughan Williams and A. L. Lloyd, Revised by Malcolm Douglas, efdss, 2003. (The Banks of Green Willow, Sung by Mrs. Emma Overd, Langport, Somerset (C. J. S. 1904)) This volume is a much-needed revision of the Penguin of 1959, with a section on the Singers, as well as the songs. In his notes, Malcolm says Emma Overd died in 1928, and that Sharp noted 43 songs from her. Malcolm gives notes and references which may help you to sort it out, if he doesn't come along to this thread in the meantime. |
Subject: RE: Penguin: Banks Of Green Willow From: The Sandman Date: 24 Nov 07 - 02:06 PM I never heard Dave sing this,and alas hes no longer with us. |
Subject: RE: Penguin: Banks Of Green Willow From: GUEST,Brian Peters Date: 24 Nov 07 - 01:41 PM I'm exhuming this rather antique thread having spent a lot of time trying to put together my own collation of this ballad. I've been through all the examples in Bronson, the various versions - some of them rather suspicious in terms of text - that Baring-Gould included in his notebooks (thanks to Martin Graebe on that one), and a couple of others from the Gardiner MSS that Bob Askew has sent me. A couple of questions arise: 1. In the Penguin version, allegedly that collected by Sharp from Mrs. Overd, there is the verse: See how my love do tumble, See how my love do taver, See how my love do try to swim, That makes my heart quaver. However, Bronson's account of the same version (Overd / CJS) has: Look how my love's swimming along See how my love swager I'm afraid she'll swim to dry land Which makes my heart quaver For those who set great store by detailed motivational analyses of song texts, this would suggest that young Johnny is scared stupid that she will escape alive to tell the tale. More to the point, though: is the Penguin version simply one of Lloyd's revisions? I don't have the source material to check up on it. 2. As far as I can make out, the only reference I've found in a version from tradition (outside of Child) to some kind of ill-fortune having been visited on the voyage is the stanza "The sails were outspread, but of miles made not any" in the "Undutiful Daughter" version collected by Baring-Gould from John Masters - which bears evidence of at least some editorial intervention. So has anyone come across anything similar in a collected version that I haven't discovered yet? I'm intrigued by the text submitted above by Dave Bryant, which contains some very unusual and suspiciously judgemental lines. |
Subject: RE: Penguin: Banks Of Green Willow From: pavane Date: 02 Nov 03 - 03:34 AM Nic Jones did sing it on one of his earlier ('Bulmerised') albums, so it should be possible to check his version of the tune. |
Subject: RE: Penguin: Banks Of Green Willow From: Fiolar Date: 01 Nov 03 - 08:26 AM The late Tony Rose recorded a beautiful version. |
Subject: RE: Penguin: Banks Of Green Willow From: GUEST,MMario Date: 31 Oct 03 - 10:01 AM I have seen elsewhere drawing of lots with "billets" and sometimes "ballots". |
Subject: RE: Penguin: Banks Of Green Willow From: Dave Bryant Date: 31 Oct 03 - 09:55 AM The version that I sing (I can't remember who I got it from) contains the verses: We had not been a-sailing not three weeks so many When our ship it was becalm-ed sore No way we made any So they counted out black bullets, they numbered twice six and twenty And the lot it fell upon this maid On her and her baby They've tied a kerchief round her eyes, they've tied it round so bravely And they've cast the wrongdoer over the side Both her and her baby. Now it's see how she doth swim me boys and it's see how she doth swagger And she will not stop her swimming Till she comes nigh some harbour Now it's see how the winds do blow me boys and how our ship is moving That women was our cause of woe And this is the proving. I've assumed that the assumption about her swimming prowess, was that she was some sort of witch and therefore could not drown. |
Subject: RE: Penguin: Banks Of Green Willow From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 30 Oct 03 - 06:58 PM That verse rarely appears in tradition, but there's a form of it in Child 24A, Bonnie Annie, verse 7: They've casten black bullets twice six and forty, And ae the black bullet fell on bonnie Annie. That text was taken from Kinloch's Ancient Scottish Ballads. The sequence also appears in a set noted by Sabine Baring-Gould in Devon, The Undutiful Daughter. This is in his MSS in collated form, the tune and the bulk of the text being from J. Masters, Bradstone, 1888; with additional material (including, it seems, this verse, no. 5 in the MS) from H. Smith, Two Bridges, 1889. They cast the black bullets, as they sailed on the water The black bullet fell to the undutiful daughter. Now, who in the ship must go over the side O O none save the maiden, the fair captain's bride O. The full song is in Bronson, I, no. 24.7, pp. 300-301. It can also be seen in pdf format at Martin Graebe's Sabine Baring-Gould and the folk songs of South-West England: The Undutiful Daughter. Martin Carthy recorded a collated form of the song that features the incident. In his case, the tune and the bulk of the text were from David Clements of Basingstoke, Hampshire (recorded by Ralph Vaughan Williams, January 1909), with three verses adapted from Kinloch. Clements' set was printed in The Journal of the Folk Song Society, III (4) 1909 292-3 and Bronson I 25.15 303. A cylinder recording presumed to be of him survives at the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library, and a transcription can be heard on the EFDSS CD A Century of Song (EFDSSCD02, 1998). The process is one of drawing lots; evidently in this case using bullets; one only being black. |
Subject: RE: Penguin: Banks Of Green Willow From: sadie damascus Date: 30 Oct 03 - 06:22 PM I've lost it now, but thirty minutes ago I visited a page whose version of this song had the sailors draw lots with "black bullets", or at least that's what I think they were doing. For years I have thought I had once heard a version in which they threw a "black bullock" overboard before throwing the maiden. Now I realize it was this version I must have heard. Despite following every link I can find, now, I cannot seem to return to that "black bullet" version. It was the sort of page that does not lend itself to being copy-and-pasted. Anybody? How would these bullets be used? Sadie Damascus |
Subject: RE: Penguin: Banks Of Green Willow From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 28 May 02 - 09:16 PM "The Undutiful Daughter." Lyrics and music may be found at: Daughter Your site, Martin? |
Subject: RE: Penguin: Banks Of Green Willow From: Martin Graebe Date: 28 May 02 - 02:41 AM Baring-Gould staggers into the the C19th having collected the song in 1888 from John Masters of Bradstone in Devon (two other singers gave hime the song over the nest couple of years. He called it 'The Undutiful Daughter'. Martin |
Subject: RE: Lyric & Tune add: Banks Of Green Willow From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 27 May 02 - 11:32 PM Seemingly there is no tune older than 20th century for this ballad, according to Bronson, The Singing Tradition of Child's Popular Ballads, notes to "Bonnie Annie," p. 86. He gives three tunes for "Banks of Green Willow," 1903-1905. Child, The English and Scottish Popular Ballads, Loomis House new edition, p. 338, provides still another melody, for Bonnie Annie, variation C (from S. Baring-Gould?). |
Subject: RE: Lyric & Tune add: Banks Of Green Willow From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 05 Aug 00 - 05:20 PM From the notes to the Penguin Book (1959): "There is a common superstition, older than Jonah, that the presence of a wrongdoer aboard ship may make the vessel unmanageable.¹ Disaster may result unless the offender is discovered and thrown overboard. A Scottish text printed in 1827 makes it clear that the "Jonah" motive lies within this song, though the 20th. century versions are so disordered that the meaning is rather obscured. The full story concerns a young woman who robs her parents, at her lover's request, and sails away with him. During a storm at sea the woman gives birth to a baby. The sailors fear that someone aboard is flying from retribution. The blame is fixed on the woman, and to her lover's grief she is thrown overboard. Later versions, however, make it seem that the lover is the murderer. Fifty years ago Sharp reported the song "very generally sung throughout Somerset". Five of Sharp's nine Somerset versions are given in FSJ vol.II [issue 6] pp.33-6, and FSJ vol.III [issue 13] p.292 has a Hampshire version² noted by R. Vaughan Williams." -R.V.W./A.L.L. This version was collected by Cecil Sharp from Mrs. Overd of Langport, Somerset, in 1904, and was first published in the Folk Song Journal, vol.II [issue 6] p.34. Other versions on the DT: Banks of Green Willow transcribed from a record by Frankie Armstrong, with tune.
The Banks of Green Willow transcribed from a record by Nic Jones; no tune is given. |
Subject: RE: Lyric & Tune add: Banks Of Green Willow From: lamarca Date: 14 Jan 00 - 12:44 PM My favorite recorded version of this song is on a Fellside sampler record called "Flash Company!" that they released as a benefit for Nic Jones. On it a group calling themselves "The Famous Five (Less One)" does this as a choral close harmony, to a bouncy and totally inappropriate tune - but it works! The pseudonymous group is Martin Carthy and some of his friends; Martin recorded the song straight on his album "Shearwater"... I know certain things were supposedly ill-luck on shipboard, but I'm not sure why the young woman has to die in this song - is it because she stole money from her parents, or because she was a woman on board ship, or because she was an unchaste woman (having produced a baby out-of-wedlock) on board ship? It always seemed grotesquely unfair that she had to die, but her so-called "true love" who got her pregnant, asked her to steal the money and persuaded her to go on board gets off scot free! |
Subject: RE: Lyric & Tune add: Banks Of Green Willow From: Mían Date: 14 Jan 00 - 11:27 AM oh my gawd. |
Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: THE BANKS OF GREEN WILLOW ^^ From: Alan of Australia Date: 14 Jan 00 - 05:26 AM G'day, From the Penguin Book Of English Folk Songs, Ed Pellow's submission of the tune of The Banks Of Green Willow (Child #24) can be found here. THE BANKS OF GREEN WILLOW Go and get your father's good will, And get your mother's money, And sail right o'er the ocean Along with young Johnny. She had not been a-sailing Been sailing many days, O, Before she want some woman's help And could not get any. Oh, fetch me a silk napkin To tie her head up easy, And I'll throw her overboard Both she and her baby. Oh, they fetched him a napkin And bound her head so easy, And overboard he threw his love, Both she and her baby. See how my love do tumble, See how my love do taver, See how my love do try to swim, That makes my heart quaver. Oh, make my love a coffin Of the gold that shines yellow, And she shall be buried By the banks of green willow. The DT has a different version here.
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