BS: islamic banking

Subject: BS: islamic banking
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Nov 21 - 04:53 PM

Some info which was new to me
Shariah strictly prohibits any form of speculation or gambling, which is referred to as maisir. Shariah also prohibits taking interest on loans. ... To earn money without the typical practice of charging interest, Islamic banks use equity participation systems.
The main principles of Islamic finance are that: Wealth must be generated from legitimate trade and asset-based investment. (The use of money for the purposes of making money is expressly forbidden.) Investment should also have a social and an ethical benefit to wider society beyond pure return
Islamic banking is the provision of financial services based on the ethical principles of Shari'ah. ... In essence, Islamic principles prohibit collection and utilisation of interest for business purposes. Permissible transactions include Islamic loans called qard hasan, otherwise known as benevolent loans.
The Islamic banking system is when the conventional bank system applies a profit system in interest. The Islamic banking system still aims to profit but not the interest system as used by conventional banks

Subject: RE: BS: islamic banking
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Nov 21 - 07:01 PM

The Islamic banks available to us in the UK (which are fully available to all of us, not just Muslims) don't give interest, but, instead, expected profit, but they have never paid below the rate they predicted. Quite often, their rate is better than the mainstream savings vehicles can offer. They are openly ethical in the sense that they will never invest their funds in alcohol, betting or tobacco. They are, of course, sharia-compliant. Personally, that has never bothered me (I'm not one of those ignorantes who squirm, kneejerk fashion, without ever having looked it up, at the word "sharia," which, as applied in the UK, has, without any strain at all, got to comply with the laws of the land, and the Islamic banks have no trouble with that).

All good then, in m'humble.

Subject: RE: BS: islamic banking
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 21 - 07:36 PM

Sounds better than crypto.

Subject: RE: BS: islamic banking
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Nov 21 - 01:49 AM

The problem with Shariah Law is interpretation. The principles as stated above are fine and moral. But once you leave the regulated genre of banking it gets more and more down to who is pronouncing what is and isn't law.

There have been calls for Shariah Law to be incorporated into UK jurisprudence. Neglecting the fact that there is a perfectly workable system called Tort Law. And you can always draw up a contract between the parties. The Islamic Banks do that by inference, you deposit or borrow on their terms, available in writing on an obscure page behind a button on their website.

When it comes to mortgages, it is fine when it is fine, but when people fall on hard times, morality is hard too. The banks have to protect their interest just the same.

Subject: RE: BS: islamic banking
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Nov 21 - 02:37 AM

The problem with all law is interpretation…
What are the names of some Islamic banks?

Subject: RE: BS: islamic banking
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Nov 21 - 03:46 AM

steve shaw
hey are openly ethical in the sense that they will never invest their funds in alcohol, betting or tobacco.
you missed they do not invest in armaments manufacture or pornography

Subject: RE: BS: islamic banking
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Nov 21 - 03:48 AM

Here are the sharia-compliant ones I know of (there may be others...)

Abu Dhabi Islamic Bank
Al Rayan Bank
Bank of London and The Middle East Gatehouse Bank
QIB UK

According to the rule of law in the UK, sharia principles for settling disputes, etc., may be applied only if all parties involved give consent. Sharia principles may not be used to override UK law.

Them's the rules and I know that in most walks of life rules may be bent or broken. As has been indicated, the banking sector is tightly regulated.

Subject: RE: BS: islamic banking
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Nov 21 - 03:48 AM

Quite so, Dick.

Subject: RE: BS: islamic banking
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Nov 21 - 06:35 AM

In 2018 an independent review into the application of sharia law in England and Wales was presented to Parliament. From it:

Sharia councils have no legal status and no legal binding authority under civil law. Whilst sharia is a source of guidance for many Muslims, sharia councils have no legal jurisdiction in England and Wales. Thus if any decisions or recommendations are made by a sharia council that are inconsistent with domestic law (including equality policies such as the Equality Act 2010) domestic law will prevail. Sharia councils will be acting illegally should they seek to exclude domestic law. Although they claim no binding legal authority, they do in fact act in a decision-making capacity when dealing with Islamic divorce.

Common misconceptions around sharia councils often perpetuate owing to the use of incorrect terms such as referring to them as ‘courts’ rather than councils or to their members as ‘judges’. These terms are used both in media articles but also on occasion by the sharia councils themselves. It is important to note that sharia councils are not courts and they should not refer to their members as judges. It is this misrepresentation of sharia councils as courts that leads to public misconceptions over the primacy of sharia over domestic law and concerns of a parallel legal system. The recommendations included in this report, such as changes to marriage law, are designed to promote equality between religions in ways that should challenge misconceptions of a parallel legal system and encourage integration.

Subject: RE: BS: islamic banking
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Nov 21 - 07:03 AM

I've used the major Islamic bank in Turkey (TC Ziraat Bankasi) to change money. They were quite a bit more efficient and friendly than their secular competitors.

Subject: RE: BS: islamic banking
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Nov 21 - 10:54 PM

Unfortunately, none of these banks seem to operate in Ireland. The credit unions would be the nearest thing.
Sandman, do they invest in nuclear power and fossil fuels?