BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)

Subject: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Jan 22 - 12:37 AM

Cold Weather/ Snow/ Ice Hints for those not used to it:

For those of you who are undergoing colder than usual snowier icier than usual conditions my sympathies. I used to live in southern Ohio where a couple of inches of snow meant the school buses wouldn't run, then we moved to the Boston area to a town that was proud of how 'tough' it was and unless it was two feet deep and blizzarding all at once you were expected to be in class on time. A shower in the morning meant frozen hair by the time I stepped through the school door.

Now I live in Alaska, which has been having far better weather than a good deal of the rest of the U.S. Go figure. So if you are feeling out of sorts due to sub-normal climes, hope this helps:

Your health:
Stay hydrated. Drinking an extra pint of water or more will help keep you warm in that cold tends to dry the air out and promote your body losing water through evaporation direct from your skin you are not aware of.
Feeling cold: Feeling cold when it's cold is normal. If you're reading this odds are pretty good you're a mammal. Since you generate your own heat chemically your surface is going to let you know that the outside temperature isn't quite the same. Being cold can be quite refreshing. What isn't cool is being numb. If you are really unaccustomed to this slice of weather, introduce yourself to it by degrees, (ha-ha). If you are nervous, try to meet up at Starbucks with someone who thinks that cool is cool.

Pets
Help your pet stay hydrated. You might be bringing outdoor pets inside. They'll need water too. If they are still outside, they need access to liquid water. If you need to walk your dog, you may find your dog has a high metabolism and can handle cold weather. If the dog is not used to snow and ice, the dog may be enjoying the novelty but subject to injuries like not stopping in time or especially splayed legs, particularly hindquarters. You may think this calls for doggie booties but in Alaska not many people use them unless their pets have unusually hairy foot pads or are used for mushing. They may reduce a dog's traction and they often slip right off. Some shorthair dogs get a tie-on blanket, but the dog I'm most familiar with is a 50 pound lab-mix who has never appeared to be cold and starts eating snow (a sign of overheating) at under 20 degrees F. Dogs have their own personalities and may or may not like the experience. Keep 'em hydrated.
If you like to give your pets the 'freedom' of the house, particularly birds and reptiles, you may want to reconsider this while the unfamiliarity with outside temps may present a danger. They can get lost, cold, and predated in no time. Large snakes are actually hard to kill, but if they can wander off, they will, and then hang out comatose for months.

Your car:
Your car needs tires that will grip the road. And while 4 season tires and studded tires may accelerate better than worn or high speed tires, they might not stop any better. Tire chains are available for real emergencies and there are some that are not hard to put on and will allow you to get to a relative, neighbor, or hospital if you are dependent on your own resources. (My first chains were totally plastic and nylon and were serviceable for years). But a taxi or uber is easier and cheaper.
A modern car has two separate stores of water: A small one for windshield cleaning and your radiator coolant system. Typically the latter ara mix of glycol and water. Unless the temp is going down to 0 Fahrenheit (= -17 Celsius) don't mess with it. If you have pure water/ soap solution in the small plastic windshield cleaner fluid tank consider topping it off with a lower temperature mix.
Stuff you may keep in your car: leaving your Starbucks water in the cup holder will result in frozen water, but leaving a can of soda pop in your car will create a mess. Alcohol wipes may be too cold to use.
Having a 'survival' package is a good idea. Likewise one of those backup lithium batteries specifically to start your car. You can pick up both at Costco (except maybe now). A survival package consists of:
Jumper cables and the instructions for using them (Positive Dead to Positive Live; Negative Live to Negative Dead)
Reflective or lit markers to guide traffic around your stopped vehicle.Have a USB cord in the glovebox so you can charge your phone from your car.

Have some large plastic trash bags for wrapping stuff up, such as a guitar you might want to protect from melting stuff.

Beware of bridges over AND under. In cold weather the upper level of bridges may have a frozen surface. Underneath the bridges the snow may not be completely cleared or have mixed surfaces, some stuff frozen, some not.

Dressing for the cold without buying a winter coat:
You want to cover your head , your neck, and in place of a thick coat, layers layers layers. If you have old wool clothes, they will warm you even if they are wet. Cotton will warm you if it is dry and thick. It will not be good to wear if it is wet. Likewise with silk and most polys. Your outer layer should be windproof.

Fall protection:
I'd say that your main danger is the many opportunities you can have to go ass-over-teakettle, especially on your own property or walking around your own car. Even healthy young people can break bones with no forewarning. Many of us are older and slower to heal. Lay in a supply of salt for your walkway and driveway. You can also use kitty litter. it is better to put it down over a cleared area, not to drop it right in the fallen snow. It is a good idea to have a box or bag of it in your car as well, along with a portable shovel. (In my case a wok once proved serviceable).
Traction devices for your shoes. You don't need to go for full on crampons. They are more of a hindrance off of the mountains. There are many many slip-over kinds. I like to work for a place that uses workmen, find out what they give their people, then steal a pair. But often Costco has something almost as good. The kind that work in your driveway and your workplace parking lot may be the lightweight kind with what appears to be small metal springs wrapped horizontally around rubber strands. They work, but they wear out real fast. They are not good for long walks where they might contact different surfaces. The spring part deforms and wears through the rubber part. The more robust kinds iwith actual chains or hard metal points under your soles and heels will dig into ice are way better. There are a couple of brands for sale at REI that are real good, but they cost several times as much. They are trail worthy and long lasting.

Shoveling snow. You may have a service to clear your driveway. If you have to do your own walk, and are a little afraid of the effort and what it could do to you, you can either look for help or have a go at it yourself. If you do, pace yourself. Fresh fallen loose snow is usually easy and a novelty exercise. Snow that has been rained on is called 'heart-attack snow.' If the weather predictions are for a return to warm temperatures, wait it out. or, take a small shovel and- pace yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 22 - 09:36 AM

CAR HANDLING TIPS ON ICE
Do not normally accelerate on curves. Hold it steady or very lightly let up on the gas. Go slow with flasher lights on in trouble spots.
Do not down shift, which will cause a spin out in automatics and manual transmissions.
Deliberately drifting can work on ice to your advantage. Stepping on the gas will make the rear end come around to the right which can help you avoid obstacles straight ahead. This is an unintuitive procedure so practice might help. The more gas the quicker the centrifigal spin so there is an element of control.
Braking hard is discouaged due to loss of traction and skid. The best maneuver is to stay home.

All wheel drive and four wheel drive do help but only to a very limited degree.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Jan 22 - 02:52 PM

Layers, layers, layers.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Jan 22 - 10:44 AM

Long johns!
I don't know how far below freezing it is here today,
but without my long johns under my trousers,
my legs would be two icicles.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Jan 22 - 12:53 PM

Four-wheel drive is useful, but it can also mean a four-wheel skid. SLOW DOWN! Turn your headlights on in snow, rain, and fog -- not just the automatic driving lights, but HEADLIGHTS. And make sure your tail lights are working!

We have had "winter kits" in the cars since 1974, when we were stranded by a blizzard for three days just a half-hour from our house. Our kits now include fire starting materials (including a folding stove), fuel tablets or Sterno, pint pots, plastic utensils, "survival" blankets, some food like high-protein bars, and the most important thing of all, toilet paper.

We spent 32 years living in the "snow belts" around Lakes Erie and Michigan. Now we live in the Idaho mountains. Yes, we're experienced in snow driving. But remember, between snow storms other people forget how to drive in snow.

My motto in all this: "I'm a good driver in snow, but I don't know about YOU, so I'm careful for me."

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Charmion
Date: 26 Jan 22 - 02:18 PM

The most important thing to remember about driving in snowy conditions is to keep your speed down.

I live in southwestern Ontario, between Lake Huron, Lake Erie and Lake Ontario. A common weather problem here is drifting snow on the road, often over patches of black ice. If you're driving too fast, the tires lose their grip as soon as you hit the drifting snow, and the ice accelerates your sideways progress into the ditch. Or, if karma is determined to get you that day, into the oncoming traffic.

That's precisely what happened to my next-door neighbour last winter, on her way from Stratford to Kitchener on Perth County Road 43. She had two passengers with her, and only the car's robust design and safety equipment saved their lives.

By the way, "too fast" could be 25 kph below the speed limit, depending on conditions.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Jan 22 - 09:23 PM

Exactly, Charmion. I've seen "big honkin' pickups" in the ditch and their tracks showed exactly sort of thing you've described.

Better to get there late than not at all. "Every dog has its day and every fool has his ditch."

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 22 - 06:21 PM

In the south-west of England we rarely get extensive snow and ice on roads, but when we do people generally don't know what to do. You're at the mercy of a lot of drivers who have suddenly become incompetent. No matter how circumspect you are, you're endangered. Stay home if at all possible. It doesn't last very long here. Different for you yanks (and Canadians!) of course. Not dissing any of the advice in this thread, by the way.

And season your logs during the summer!

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 22 - 06:30 PM

I have a large plastic bin bag in my boot, aka trash bag in the trunk :-) which is ram-jam full of old cast-off fleeces, enough for several ill-fitting layers for two people, along with insulated hats and gloves. I never let my fuel go much below half. I've done this all my adult life and Mrs Steve thinks I'm mad. I've never had to resort to that gear but the whole lot of it is very light and I can squidge it down if I need space.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Charmion
Date: 27 Jan 22 - 07:15 PM

The day you find yourself ditched in a sleet storm fifty (or just five) miles from civilisation, Steve, you will bless that bag of fleeces.

As of today, I am now driving a new-to-me VW Golf GTI with snow tires after two weeks with a tiny Chevrolet Spark with “all-season” (we say three-season) tires. It was snowing and blowing to beat the band, but this is Ontario where winter is a thing. So I drove the Chev (a hire car) to the VW dealer in Kitchener on Highway 7/8, nearly 50 km of really unnerving experience. The wind pushed the little econobox all over the road, and the feeble windscreen wipers barely kept up with the accumulation. Every passing truck covered me with slush, and the drifting snow camouflaged the road limits to a frightening degree. Oh, and the nasty skid at New Hamburg nearly gave me a heart attack.

Coming home in the new car, considerably heavier and much better equipped, it was just another nasty day in January.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 22 - 07:35 PM

I doubt whether very many people at all over here fit winter tyres or have snow chains, etc., maybe up in Scotland in the more remote areas, I suppose. So when we get the occasional big snow hit, we're not really ready...

Haven't seen a flake here this winter, and we've had just a handful of frosty nights but nothing below minus two-and-a-bit (Celsius, of course!). But you never know what's around the corner, and not being ready for it is a national pastime.

Proper screenwash is cheap here in supermarkets. Ready-mixed is the cheapest but I'd rather use concentrate with which I can have a stronger mix in winter. I would never use just water or water with washing-up liquid. That's taking parsimony to extremes.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 22 - 08:22 PM

Torque creates a small force that on ice becomes the dastardly teeny push that sends you spining. Earlier I called that force erroneously centrifugal. The more speed the more torque until you get real surprised. Horizontal engines help counteract some torque.

GTI's have amazing handling characteristics, on dry roads.
Don't do it but you could synchromesh shift into first from 4th gear in the VW. The G's you could pull is wicked.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Jan 22 - 08:54 PM

I have done a 180° skid-turn on a straight road in snow. My friend Mary was going to the store a couple days ago and a big truck (lorry) came off an exit ramp and she did a 270°skid-turn -- she said she was shaking an hour later!

When I fell on the ice in the driveway after putting out the rubbish bins a couple weeks ago I was annoyed by the cars whizzing by, no one wondering why that man was laying down in the snow. That was a 90° skid that ended abruptly!

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Charmion
Date: 28 Jan 22 - 08:21 AM

My worst-ever skid was a full doughnut on Highway 15 just outside the gates of Vimy Barracks in Kingston, Ontario. I was driving a Datsun F10 — dreadful car — with inadequate tires, and it was almost midnight on a Sunday in January 1982. I still don’t know why the car stayed upright. Lucky for me there was no on-coming traffic, or I’d be dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Jan 22 - 02:04 PM

Massachusetts and Alaska:

I've been listening to the blizzard news regarding Northeast USA and my old New England, Boston area inundation by a practising blizzard bringing feet of snow and negligible visibility to towns I was quite familiar with. Boston is loaded with people so there is more snow than places to put it. I remember the days of clearing your space on the rowhouse street, then guarding it.
But the most alarming thing I heard this morning was that they anticipate temperatures into the 50s F (= 10 C) so there could be an unholy mess of snow, ice, slush, with problematic drainage.
My extreme sympathies for those in these conditions.

Alaska has been having some relatively minor weather compared to the rest: We had a minor earthquake a week ago ("You call it an earthquake, we call it 'Thursday'"). Anchorage has had some light snow falls. We had some high temperatures with meltdowns, followed by snow, meaning we have a slick layer under the soft stuff which promotes the slips trips and falls for folks on feet and wheels alike. We hawe bicycle riders with studded tires.

The only reason I'm including this in the cold weather care where it's rare thread is that when I lived in Beantown the snow removal equipment was quite specialized, large wheeled vehicles with giant maws full of awesome rotating machinery. In Anchorage I was surprised that they mainly use what I called road graders. These are the long trucks with two large steering wheels in front, four large about half a block back, and a huge metal cross blade in the middle with a control cab over. They have their own snow clearing algorithms: They'll come along very early mornings after a strong blow, but in general they are scheduled to do major street clearing after enough of the white stuff is piled on AND beside the roads. Then they do mini convoys where two of the graders go down the road in stagger formation with a blower behind which picks up the tall pile left by the grader and spins it to toss into the top of a sizable dump truck. The snow and ice are compact but not nearly as heavy as gravel, so the dump truck has an extra ridge on one side composd of a back board so the truck is carrying a snow and ice mixture far above its usual limits. Ultimately the gathered stuff ends up in piles on city or rented property, and you see them lasting right into Summer as a sign of what kind of precipitation we went through.

A phenomena of using these graders is that when they are done they often lower the big metal blade so that it scrapes the surface. They may be adjusted by lasers or something, because they leave a shiny surface of glare ice that is better left un traveled by car or pedestrian. Only something sharp will have any purchase. But, being so thin, they sublimate down to asphalt fairly quickly.

Anyhow, my thoughts are of Bahston at the moment. And the wicked pissah times I had there.

If you are from points south of Mason Dixon I'm interested in how wintry the unaccustomed weather has been and what you've done about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: keberoxu
Date: 29 Jan 22 - 09:47 PM

You have a point, robomatic.
I went to the weather website to see if their forecast agreed.

And yes, next week the temperatures will spike up and sink down again,
by the looks of it --
the first days of February.
The temps will stay up there, long enough for
NIGHTTIMES above freezing,
which is truly unusual in New England in February.
And with the amount of snow and ice around,
yes, it could be treacherous for roads, rivers, and everything.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Charmion
Date: 30 Jan 22 - 09:48 AM

The winter freeze-thaw cycle wreaks utter havoc with infrastructure. In Ottawa, where whole weeks go by with the thermometer barely struggling above -20C, the thaw that always follows a cold snap leaves the city covered with muddy slush that promptly freezes again in lumps all over the place — horrible for pedestrians. It would take me longer to walk the third of a mile from my front door in Lower Town to the nearest groomed arterial street than the rest of the mile to my job at National Defence Headquarters. I always used a hiking stick to keep myself upright.

Many Canadian communities are full of axle-breaking potholes because the asphalt pavement breaks down every winter. Residential streets that carry only local domestic traffic tend to be neglected so the trucks can keep rolling on the main drags, which is why stretches of my street here in Stratford look like transplants from Haiti or Afghanistan.

No wonder we pay sky-high property taxes.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Jan 22 - 12:33 PM

Charmion, do you know where to find Tim Horton's sport stadium in Hamilton, Ontario?
There's a CONCACAF match going on there today,
in which the Canadian men's team hosts the USA men's team,
hoping to freeze them out the way they did to Mexico, late last year
in something called 'Ice-Teca' which was in a different province.

That Canadian football/'fitba' team is on a roll.
I'm a little worried about the USMNTs.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Charmion
Date: 30 Jan 22 - 02:23 PM

I’m sure I could find it, Keb, but I’m a bit old and rickety to spend a January afternoon watching footie outside — even in Hamilton. Besides, I have to be on deck at six o’clock to sing Evensong in Stratford, and I couldn’t make the return trip AND see the match without Star Trek technology.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: robomatic
Date: 31 Jan 22 - 12:25 AM

keb:

I'm laughing at the freeze tactic. I don't think that would work with our guys and gals!

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 31 Jan 22 - 10:37 AM

"Footie in Hamilton in January?" [Laughs evilly in Canadian.]

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: robomatic
Date: 31 Jan 22 - 01:05 PM

"When I'm good, I'm very very good. And when I'm bad, I'm better!"

Was Mae West Canadian?

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Jan 22 - 01:19 PM

When I was sharing driving tips with my raised-in-Texas kids about driving (mostly they took formal driving courses) the rule they need to remember for icy conditions, the mantra that should come to mind if they find themselves in snow or ice, is "My brakes are not my friend."

My son and I found ourselves on an icy viaduct one evening and I guided the pickup through the middle and carefully, slowly steered past several vehicles that had slithered to a halt against the sides, not all pointed the correct direction. "Don't touch the brakes, don't give it any gas" and he watched, riveted, as we reached the other end and I reminded myself I should have gone the long way around.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: robomatic
Date: 31 Jan 22 - 03:18 PM

SRS I avoided driving tips for those inundated by unexpected conditions because unless one is in an emergency, if you've never driven mixed conditions and the ice/snow/slush is a major yet temporary condition for you, you are far better off staying out of it. Keep your parking space or better yet, your warm indoor garage. You and your vehicle will be far better off.

I was once way north of town (Anchorage) in my rear wheel drive Toyota in winter and a brand new Toyota pickup in front of me lost directional control partly because he was in four wheel drive and he was on an icy bridge. All his wheels in motion each with varying traction made him a metaphor for a 'hog on ice' and he bounced off a railing. I had to relax accelerating and braking, steer by prayer and hope he would remain out of my way. He had to park it and lock it and I drove him into town.

Meanwhile, I've been enjoying the miracle that is ABS braking. I did not have it in my learning-to-drive youth and nowadays it bloody works. But when it can't slow you down, it WON'T slow you down. You will proceed forward at whatever good your braking can do until you stop one way or another. A few years ago I didn't anticipate the slipperiness of the turn lane I'd sidled into and I stopped short by about an inch of the vehicle bumper in front of me.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: keberoxu
Date: 31 Jan 22 - 09:29 PM

Well, two updates:

In Hamilton, Ontario, the Canadian "Les Rouges" men's national team ('fitba')
defeated the USMNT this past Sunday.

And Boston, Massachusett's snowfall
broke the record, set in 2003,
for the highest snowfall in a single day's time.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Charmion
Date: 01 Feb 22 - 12:30 PM

Robo, that hog-on-ice thing is why I prefer a manual transmission and will not have a four-wheel-drive vehicle at any price. In Ontario, ice on the road is normal for at least three months of the year.

Olde Phartes like me who learned to drive in military-pattern vehicles or old farm trucks have the enormous advantage of knowing when 4WD is a disadvantage, not to speak of how to slow down without braking.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 01 Feb 22 - 04:54 PM

I am not with Charmion on this one. I have had more experience behind the wheel of 4x4 and 6x6 vehicles (in the latter case, towing artillery pieces) in mountain terrain like the Lebanon Range and BC's Selkirks where the weather doesn't stint when it snows. I will take a 4x4 with serviceable tires and a manual transmission any day. (I also know how to throw on chains if I have to.)

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Charmion
Date: 01 Feb 22 - 05:25 PM

Yes, Andrew, first you got the training, and then you got plenty of practice. I learned just enough to know that handling a 4x4 (or 6x6!) in lousy conditions, especially with a trailer, is no game for even a gifted amateur. “Non-trade” drivers like me had three weeks on the Ponderosa in Borden, not nearly enough time to build that skill set.

I think most non-professional motorists believe they are much more skillful behind the wheel than they really are, and they’re not helped by the proliferation of automatic and power-assisted systems in modern cars. Having learned to drive late in life with an automatic transmission, my dear husband — no slouch intellectually — never fully grokked traction or how to use the gearbox to get it. And anyone who spends enough time on major autoroutes will eventually see some poor fool make a bad situation far worse by stomping on the pedal and locking his brakes.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Feb 22 - 04:37 PM

Usually the first to learn about traction control are bike riders.
Things like drifting is the controled loss of traction which is something I do not do. Drifting is something dirt track racers do for fun. ABS braking was first developed for airplanes then slowly entered the car market. Now I think they are standard.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Feb 22 - 01:00 PM

If you leave the house with good driving conditions and a cold front moves in during the day, that trip home is a lot different than the morning drive. And this is when parking in the warm garage isn't helpful - until you can get home first. This is the kind of drive when the kids were paying attention and when the advice to avoid the brakes was delivered.

I haven't been able to find a nice-driving standard transmission vehicle for a reasonable price for many years. (If I want one now I have learned from a local friend and from Charmion's posts that VW is the way to go.) Trucks are untouchable now.

In winter in my old pickups I used to put a piece of 2x4 across the back at the tailgate side of the wheel wells and then load in 200-300 pounds of bagged potting soil, humate, and sand that would stay during the cold months and then get used in the garden in the spring. That kept the back end under much better control. The plank kept the bags from sliding forward.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Feb 22 - 09:10 PM

The latest from southwestern Massachusetts:

a staffperson, where I am staying, had their parked car covered in ice.
Their standard way to remove ice from covering their parked car,
involves teakettles filled with the hottest water,
amongst other implements.

In the first place, they told me,
it took ninety minutes to get one-quarter-inch-thick ice off the car.
In the second place,
they set the teakettle, a double-chambered-thing, on the frozen ground,
while chipping the ice off of the car.

When they went to pick up the kettle, they told me dramatically,
"it broke in half! I never liked that teakettle anyway . . . "

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 22 - 06:26 PM

I think it's OK to use hand-hot water on the frozen windscreen, but not boiling water. Before you drive off, turn the aircon on, turn the heating up to full, turn the fan up to full, direct the air to the windscreen and turn the air intake to recirc. My Focus has a front screen heater built in. You'll be away in no time.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Charmion
Date: 08 Feb 22 - 01:09 PM

I would never pour water of any temperature on an iced-up car. It would do more harm than good, not least from coating the ground around the car with yet more ice.

First, start the car. Turn on the rear-window defroster and crank up the heater to full blast, ensuring that the vents are set to blow on the inside of the windscreen and side windows. Then get out your ice scraper and set to work, starting on the rear window and proceeding around the car, doing the windscreen last. Let the warmth inside the car weaken the ice and chop it off with the scraper.

If you don’t have an ice scraper, you should not be driving in winter. You should also have a proper snow-brush with a handle long enough to allow you to clean the roof.

Why clean the roof? Because the snow hat will eventually slide off and block your back window if you’re lucky. If you’re not lucky, it will fly off at speed and splat all over the windscreen of the car behind you, blinding the driver.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 04:35 AM

Well here in Blighty we would generally be confronting temperatures not too far below 0C, so hand-hot water is fine (I've been using it entirely without incident for half a century). Don't think I'd be using it if the mercury was thirty below. Point taken about more ice on the ground, maybe, though my car is parked on gravel, so that doesn't apply.

You could always get a windscreen cover, or improvise one with a sheet of cardboard or a newspaper. I've found that those de-icer sprays used on the outside tend to make the inside of the screen fog up, or even freeze up. I love those flowery or leafy ice patterns that can form, and I always take a photo or two.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 12:19 PM

It often does not do much good to use the blower before the engine has warmed -- unless you have air conditioning. Start the vehicle as Charmion says, but turn on the air conditioning at "MAX" with the HVAC set to recirculate and the heat cranked up to 11. It functions as a heat exchanger.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 02:15 PM

I can't imagine using boiling hot water ever on a frozen-in car, particularly if it got on the windows, some of which are pre-stressed and I suspect would then shatter into a million skin-friendly tiny crystals. But that would lead to driving with wind-burn!

Alaskans are encouraged to plug-in their vehicles. Many are purchased with these electrically heated plugs which fit into the engine block. In Fairbanks most hotels come with receptacles in the parking lot. On the North Slope it is standard. You either plug-in at the bullrail or leave it running during the three quarters of the year when you need to.

I drove up to Alaska a couple of times with outside vehicles and installed the block heaters myself, but I was lucky. It is safer to have it done by someone with experience.

There are Teslas up here but I don't know if they are a good idea for those who do a lot of outside the garage parking. Batteries lose power when they are cold.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 05:28 PM

I said hand-hot, not boiling.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 05:54 PM

When I lived in Massachussetts I was told never use water on outside ice. Made sense then, makes sense now.

Get in car, turn on all heats/ defrosts/ vents, get out of car so you don't die.

Stay warm by working on what is on outside of car but leave windows/windshields alone for a while. Yes, roof is important.

Do not leave running car alone.

Do not lock keys in running car.

After at least 5 mn, think about getting stuff off windows/windshields.

I have locked my keys in my running car twice. Two different cars, a decade or two apart. Both involved me trying to do a good deed.

My current car won't lock with the fob in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 07:21 PM

All you yanks and Canucks need to move to Cornwall!

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 09:48 PM

Steve: I was reacting to someone using a kettle with 'hottest' water.

As an ignorant yank I can't detect by your mere mention of 'Cornwall' if you are being earnest, satiric, or ironic.

Please describe Cornwall with enough detail so I may deduce your meaning! Going in, I' inclined to take it you mean this favorably.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 04:12 AM

I was whimsically alluding to Cornwall's mild climate, in which you only occasionally need to resort to de-icing the screen. We've had six frosty mornings so far this winter with nothing below -2.5C. That definitely allows you to get a big watering can of hot tap water to defrost the screen. No screen will be harmed, and, unlike other methods, it will help to unfog the inside of the screen too.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 06:53 AM

Kettle??? Watering Can???   Nah, it was (no car here now) usually the kitchen washing up bowl for this.

There may have been more days but I've only been aware of one day this winter where we have dropped below freezing in North Norfolk. It's been very mild and I've only been lighting the woodburner as a boost from teatime onwards.

Still, there is plenty of time for a (UK type) cold spell. And in gardening terms, I don't think of us being frost free until 1st May.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 01:46 PM

So your Cornwall is our Southern Ohio, as I experienced it when young. Half an inch of snow and the school bus would not come.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 01:51 PM

Using a rubber mallet

The genial gentleman mentions the importance of getting the ice off the roof as well, but doesn't mention the prospect of driving away on an ice road.

Subject: RE: BS: Cold Weather Care (Where It's Rare)
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 08:40 PM

I do love the way this thread has just picked up momentum
and roared full speed ahead. What a ride.