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BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022

robomatic 31 Jul 22 - 11:02 PM
Donuel 13 Jun 22 - 03:31 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Jun 22 - 08:19 PM
Stilly River Sage 09 Jun 22 - 07:41 PM
Donuel 09 Jun 22 - 06:46 PM
Stilly River Sage 05 Jun 22 - 03:13 PM
robomatic 05 Jun 22 - 02:31 PM
Stilly River Sage 17 May 22 - 06:55 PM
robomatic 17 May 22 - 03:31 PM
Stilly River Sage 17 May 22 - 10:32 AM
robomatic 16 May 22 - 02:31 PM
Donuel 30 Apr 22 - 09:56 PM
Stilly River Sage 30 Apr 22 - 07:05 PM
Donuel 28 Apr 22 - 05:18 PM
Stilly River Sage 27 Apr 22 - 01:42 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Apr 22 - 04:18 PM
robomatic 24 Apr 22 - 03:05 PM
Backwoodsman 24 Apr 22 - 06:11 AM
Steve Shaw 24 Apr 22 - 05:44 AM
Bonzo3legs 24 Apr 22 - 05:30 AM
Stilly River Sage 23 Apr 22 - 08:33 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Apr 22 - 07:49 PM
Donuel 23 Apr 22 - 05:30 PM
Backwoodsman 23 Apr 22 - 03:23 PM
Bonzo3legs 23 Apr 22 - 12:45 PM
Backwoodsman 23 Apr 22 - 11:51 AM
Bonzo3legs 23 Apr 22 - 11:32 AM
Stilly River Sage 22 Apr 22 - 11:02 AM
Dave the Gnome 22 Apr 22 - 03:33 AM
The Sandman 22 Apr 22 - 02:55 AM
Donuel 21 Apr 22 - 12:05 PM
Donuel 21 Apr 22 - 08:32 AM
Dave the Gnome 21 Apr 22 - 07:48 AM
The Sandman 21 Apr 22 - 04:07 AM
Donuel 20 Apr 22 - 10:24 AM
Stilly River Sage 20 Apr 22 - 10:09 AM
Donuel 20 Apr 22 - 09:59 AM
Donuel 20 Apr 22 - 09:18 AM
Donuel 20 Apr 22 - 08:29 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Apr 22 - 04:20 AM
The Sandman 20 Apr 22 - 03:24 AM
The Sandman 20 Apr 22 - 03:17 AM
Rain Dog 20 Apr 22 - 02:00 AM
The Sandman 20 Apr 22 - 01:50 AM
The Sandman 19 Apr 22 - 05:06 PM
The Sandman 19 Apr 22 - 05:01 PM
Stilly River Sage 19 Apr 22 - 12:46 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Apr 22 - 12:19 PM
The Sandman 19 Apr 22 - 10:11 AM
robomatic 19 Apr 22 - 03:30 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 31 Jul 22 - 11:02 PM

So very much news is coming out all at once: NATO exerecises in Romania, Ukrainian prisoners being exploded in Russian detention, sophisticated Western weaponry still being delivered to and used by Ukraine. Russian recruitment difficulties.

It is looking like Russia is in need of a metaphor. The ones I come up with vary between painting herself in a corner and going out on a steeper and frailer precipice.

While it is in a phase of a 'war of attrition' what is being attrited is different for both sides, and the sourcing of fresh men and materiel is likewise different for both sides.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jun 22 - 03:31 PM

Grain in port rots faster than silo grain.

All 3 regional bridges to eastern Ukraine are blown up. Russain artillery outnumbers Ukraine by 15 to 1. Reports are dire for poor
Ukraine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jun 22 - 08:19 PM

With respect to the country's wishes, I'll refer to Türkiye from now on. We could do it for Kyiv, after all.

Yes, Türkiye needs to clean up its act on a number of fronts. As does Israel, the countries that support that regime's actions, Saudi Arabia, China, the US, the UK and so on ad nauseam. I don't say this in a spirit of whataboutery, just to point out that it's easy to make sideswipes at countries we don't happen to like very much whilst giving the others a bye. In any case, I would imagine that it's just as much in Türkiye's interests to sort the grain problem out as it is with many other countries. Erdogan doesn't strike me as the sort of man who would give a rat's bottom about his image in the west.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jun 22 - 07:41 PM

Turkey may be getting involved in that, I heard recently. Turkey needs to clean up its act on a number of fronts, so maybe this is an attempt toward that end.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jun 22 - 06:46 PM

As the bread basket of eastern Europe Ukraine and Putin are talking about a way to get grain out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jun 22 - 03:13 PM

It is easy to criticize from the cheap seats.

Deciding what is provocation and what isn't, as far as what Putin says is too much - and not letting him get away with that - it's a difficult job.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Jun 22 - 02:31 PM

FYI
Interesting article
in the Guardian about the current situation and the issues that have been gone over in this thread about whether this is effectively a proxy war and if so what are the responsibiliities of 'allies' in more and more dying in what is going to be at worst a stalemate and at best a war of attrition.

Note: The article is a Guardian article by Simon Tisdall but the link is through msn: just came out:


"Timid Biden condemns Ukrainians to an agonising war without end."


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 May 22 - 06:55 PM

Right now Ukraine is watching their soldiers pulling out of the steel works and surrendering to Russia. Sad day. All talks are off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 17 May 22 - 03:31 PM

Interesting. I did't look at the photo ops that carefully. Regardless, I think the presence of our politicos is worth something in itself. Same thing with the European leaders and the application for NATO membership projected for Finland and Sweden.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 May 22 - 10:32 AM

If you saw the smiles that greeted Pelosi and Blinkin, they weren't present except for stiff formality when McConnell and Cornyn visited. Zelinskyy knows who let Trump get away with holding back financial support, and who made it look like the US didn't care if Russia invaded.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 16 May 22 - 02:31 PM

Ukraine has been host to many Western political leaders. The most 'hopeful' sign for me has been when U.S. House Speaker Mitch McConnell and a select group of Republican movers and shakers paid a visit to Kyiv and shared selfies with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

So Putin has contributed to a certain amount of bipartisanship in US Gummint.

Politics, War, Unfamiliar Bedfellows etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Apr 22 - 09:56 PM

Biden now gave Ukraine 20 billion plus in equipment and training in advanced new US weapons. Proxy wars helps the Pentagon judge their new stuff. The US military budget is 10 times Russia's so we're on the way to out spending them again. If this were chess Ukraine just got 2 more queens.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Apr 22 - 07:05 PM

The link to Russia cutting off gas to Bulgaria and Poland was moved here from the war crimes thread due to protest - it doesn't really fit here either, but it doesn't need a whole new thread.

And researching the topic it looks like European countries have been looking over their shoulder at Russia for a long time, working out other fuel options. From The Economist:
The immediate effect of Russia’s latest move, which the eu has described as being a breach of contract, is limited in scope. Poland’s imports, of 10 billion cubic metres (bcm) a year, and Bulgaria’s, of 3 bcm, together account for just 8% of total eu imports. Poland’s contract with Russia was due to expire in December anyway, so the revenue Russia loses from breaching it is small. And although Bulgaria and Poland both relied on Russia for most of their gas imports, they may be able to cope without, says Xi Nan of Rystad Energy, a consultancy. Poland should start receiving gas from Norway in October. Nearby regasification terminals could help it import more liquefied natural gas (lng). Bulgaria is expected to start importing Azeri gas via Greece later this year.

Germany and Italy are most vulnerable as far as the volume they import from Russia, but that isn't their only or even largest source.
But Moscow is offering a compromise. Buyers would open two accounts with Gazprombank (a lender that is not under sanctions). They would pay euros into the first, and ask the bank to convert the sum into roubles and deposit the money into the second account, which would then be wired to Gazprom.

Many European countries dislike the plan, which would look as though they were giving in to Russian bullying and risks creating legal headaches. They will fall into three groups. One, which includes Belgium, Britain and Spain, imports little or no gas directly from Russia, and may refuse to compromise. Another group includes big buyers such as Germany and Italy, which will struggle to replace imports quickly; they may take the deal. A third set of waverers includes countries that are only partially dependent on Russia, and may also have contracts that are soon to expire.

Even this situation would create uncertainty. One country being cut off could have knock-on effects on others, for instance if gas transits through it to other places.

The result of a full-scale shutdown to Germany could lead to a global recession, according to the paper.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Apr 22 - 05:18 PM

The US defeated the Soviet Union and cold war by out spending them.
Now with a billion US dollars thrown at Ukraine we will see a longer obvious flag war with Russia and raise the stakes.
Out spending Russia again will have consequences.
I don't have the expertise to know what they will be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Apr 22 - 01:42 PM

Russia shuts off gas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria

Cutting off their nose to spite their face seems to be a Russian skill that they're polishing. They need cash, so stop delivering to countries that are dependent on the Russian supply. At least it's spring, hopefully the heating season is about over in those countries. Many other problems still present themselves. They can't spend dollars or Euros, but they've probably worked out another way to convert the cash.
Russia has cut off natural gas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria, dramatically escalating its response to Western sanctions imposed on Moscow over the war in Ukraine.

Russian state energy giant Gazprom said in a statement Wednesday that it had fully halted supplies to Polish gas company PGNiG and Bulgaria's Bulgargaz after they refused to meet a demand by Moscow to pay in rubles, rather than euros or dollars.

The European Commission described the decision to halt supplies as attempted "blackmail" and said it was coordinating a response among EU member states.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Apr 22 - 04:18 PM

Fascist is a useful word. Thing is, I've heard lots of people being called fascists who are not actual fascists. There's something lazy and unthinking about sticking glib labels on people. With a bit of effort and a few more well-chosen words we can easily say what we really think, if we're prepared to make the effort.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Apr 22 - 03:05 PM

'nazi' has already been devalued in many ways. Along with Seinfeld's "soup nazi" and various among ourselves who use it to make a point of ultimate extremism, there are almost none of the folks who fit the original description. Plenty of wanna bes but in the original street-fighting sense, the WNs of today are a bunch of disorganized slobs by comparison with the tightly disciplined germanic hordes of yore.

We should keep the focus on Putin's perversities of action and speech and the willingness of Russians to submit to this kind of 'leadership' which is sadistic and masochistic at the same time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Apr 22 - 06:11 AM

Have a nice day Bonz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Apr 22 - 05:44 AM

I was addressing the point, raised initially by Putin and which refuses to lie down, that there are "Nazis" in Ukraine. My response to that is not to deny that there may well be "Nazis" there, like everywhere else, but if you keep on raising it right now with reference to Ukraine you are simply dancing to Putin's tune.

Also, my own instinct is to refrain from watering down the term "Nazi" by using it to refer to people on the far right. Whilst we should always have our antennae tuned for people who would like nothing less than to replicate Hitler's horrors, we should remember that there are plenty of alternative ways in the English language of characterising the nastier elements of the present-day far right. And maybe we could be talking about the ones who may or may not be in Ukraine when this war is over.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Apr 22 - 05:30 AM

"Hardly a flood"

Obviously, well done, they are just trying to scrounge their way into Europe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Apr 22 - 08:33 PM

Who are you addressing? Dick started it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Apr 22 - 07:49 PM

I mean, who's side are you on here?

Fer chrissake. There have been "Nazi groups" in France for decades, and the daughter of the Nazi-in-chief is doing rather well in the polls. Germany has had issues with "Nazi groups" for decades. In the UK we've had the National Front and the BNP. You have the KKK and god knows who else. I mean, what a fine time to nitpick about possible "Nazis" in Ukraine.

Are you a Russian sympathiser by any chance? I mean, even would-be Stalinists can't exactly stomach what's going on...


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Apr 22 - 05:30 PM

Yes there is a nazi faction in Ukraine like the US with its proud boys and KKK. Now they get to play war with impunity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Apr 22 - 03:23 PM

From that link...

"What began as a trickle of volunteers swelled over two weeks to scores, two neighbourhood residents told Reuters.

On Tuesday, Reuters reporters saw several hundred men registering with Ethiopian security guards outside the embassy. The guards recorded their names and asked for proof of military service.

There is no evidence that any Ethiopians have been sent to Ukraine, nor is it clear if any ever will be."



Hmmm... hardly a flood is it? Several hundred out of a male population of 57 MILLION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You really do need to grow a sense of perspective old
boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Apr 22 - 12:45 PM

here you go!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Apr 22 - 11:51 AM

Could you give us a link to the source of that information please, Bonz?


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Apr 22 - 11:32 AM

Ethiopian men are queuing to fight for Russia - we should not give that banana republic a penny in aid.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 11:02 AM

I unfriended a woman on Facebook who forwarded propaganda from a Russian English-language source that was intentionally publishing misinformation. She "trusted the friend who shared it" and was unwilling to examine the source of the information. Goodbye.

This Nazi group may well exist in Ukraine that but isn't why Russia is invading. It's a sparkly distraction, Dick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 03:33 AM

See, you CAN do links :-) Now all you need to do is provide an indication of why you linked the item and maybe an argument based on the content and you may start to be taken seriously!


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 02:55 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY
BBC NEWSNIGHT 2014


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 22 - 12:05 PM

Biden orders short of a billion dollars of weapons for Ukraine.
It has gone from simmer to medium heat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 22 - 08:32 AM

War reporting is mistaken with repeating an endless stream of numbers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Apr 22 - 07:48 AM

Looks like you forgot to quote your source again Dick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Apr 22 - 04:07 AM

More than 25 nations have joined in purchasing and delivering weapons to support Ukraine’s war effort. The U.S. has sent billions of dollars in missiles, ammunition and other items to the front. The EU signed off on a €500 million ($551 million USD) package — a first for the 27-country European bloc — to help arm Ukraine. And both Finland and Germany have rewritten long-standing policy that barred exporting weapons into war zone
Sweden has sent weapons to a country at war: Ukraine. The shipments include 5,000 anti-tank weapons manufactured by Saab, plus 5,000 helmets, 5,000 body shields, and 135,000 field rations.
So far, Australia has announced AUD 116 million ($86.7 million) in military support.

EU member states exported weapons to Russia after the 2014 embargo

Despite the ongoing embargo, ten member states exported € 346 million worth of military equipment, according to public data analysed by Investigate Europe. Some of these weapons could be used against Ukraine now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Fight in Ukraine - April 16, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Apr 22 - 10:24 AM

If this was chess, Ukraine is playing for a draw.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 22 - 10:09 AM

An update from the Wall Street Journal:

Russian Offensive Bears Down on Donbas as West Races to Supply Ukraine With More Weapons
Ukraine is reinforcing units as it also counterattacks southeast of Kharkiv
In the Donbas port city of Mariupol, besieged by Russian forces since late February, the remaining Ukrainian defenders warned that time was running out and asked to be evacuated to a third country, alongside the wounded and the civilians sheltering in the shrinking area under Ukrainian control. Russia has insisted on an unconditional surrender and kept pounding the Ukrainian forces—who are mostly holed up in the sprawling Azovstal steel plant—with artillery and airstrikes.

Ukraine’s General Staff said in its Wednesday briefing that Russian forces had tried to attack the Ukrainian-controlled part of Donbas from the north and northwest, with artillery barrages followed by probes of weak points in Ukrainian defenses all along the front line. After seizing the town of Kreminna over the weekend and advancing toward the villages of Torske and Zelena Dolyna, Russian forces are regrouping ahead of a renewed push toward the town of Lyman, northeast of one of the main cities in Ukrainian-held Donbas, Slovyansk, the Ukrainian military added.

Large cities in the east have rubble where large apartment buildings used to sand, but Ukrainians are thinking ahead:
Pointing out that a new development plan for London was designed in 1943, after the British capital was ravaged by Nazi bombing, Mr. Terekhov said that he now is working with British architect Norman Foster on a project to rebuild Kharkiv once the war ends.

Photos in the article are striking. Perhaps most awful is the fire rescue crew preparing to zip up a body bag to move to the vehicle. The only parts of the body in view are a hand, part of a pants leg, and most striking, a stream of blood running away from the body in the street's gutter.

They've been asking for weapons for weeks.
“If we had obtained in the first week of the war what we are receiving today, it would have been much more useful for Ukraine and the cause of freedom in Europe,” Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said in his Tuesday night address.

He notes that if that equipment arrives now it will save lives.

I suspect western powers thought Ukraine would crumble and weapons wouldn't be of use, only be captured. Now they're getting the idea Ukraine means business. Better late than never.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Apr 22 - 09:59 AM

btw, war has always driven ~half the sane participants crazy with PTSD and often ends badly with suicide epidemics. Brave new world push button war included.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Apr 22 - 09:18 AM

I can only hope we don't let hate win.
The lucky few know how they will personally do this.
The rest of us will require soul searching for their own way to not let hate win, not only regarding war but every aspect of life.
The challenge is that natural compassion and empathy is absent in 20% of us. War is the wholesale carnage of hate.
The heartless Soviet style Putin is not that different from our own local bigot.
Social psychopaths are selling it. Buy into it at your own peril.
Its better to be clever.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Apr 22 - 08:29 AM

Similar to the US, the Russain troops are mostly composed of those in poverty and ethnic minorities. As those Russians see first hand full pharmacies and grocery stores in Ukraine some eyes have been opened as to the standard of living in contrast to Mother/Putin Russia.
This will pose even more opposition to Putin in the long run on a grass roots level as those troops will obviously blame Putin for their plight and poverty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Apr 22 - 04:20 AM

It is not nitpicking to remind you, again, that it is never "the Ukraine." That is regarded as offensive by many Ukrainian people and should never be used. Just "Ukraine" is the name of the country.

If Putin had thought that invading Ukraine was economically advantageous, well the first few days of the invasion would have disabused him of that. He has met stern resistance which will continue long after any "victory" he achieves. To gain economic advantage, he needs a complicit population. That will never happen. In addition, he has trashed so much of the infrastructure of the country that it would cost him many billions to restore. Finally, he is facing massive sanctions that will economically damage Russia for decades to come and, at least in part, prevent him from raising the military resources need to continue his expansionism. The invasion of Ukraine is grounded in pro-Soviet ideology. That's what drives him. He might try to annexe the smaller Baltic states, but that will start a war with Nato that will staunch his expansionism for good.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Apr 22 - 03:24 AM

Russia, Ukraine, Georgia, Belorussia, Uzbekistan, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Latvia, ...
Rain dog. explain the resources in each of these countries that you think Putin is after.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Apr 22 - 03:17 AM

He does not have to restore the soviet union to access resources.The resources he is after, imo are in the ukraine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Rain Dog
Date: 20 Apr 22 - 02:00 AM

"The need to obtain certain resources. why would Putin want to restore the soviet union."

Well once he restores the Soviet Union he has access to all the resources.

You keep on answering your own question.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Apr 22 - 01:50 AM

I find Bidens analysis flawed.
There is no economic advantage to Putin in restoring the Soviet Union. There are economic advantages to invading the Ukraine. There are also long term economic advantages in waging war, again if we use historical comparisopns which are based on fairly recent historical experience
e.g the UK economy after the second world war.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Apr 22 - 05:06 PM

So two Historical similarites between dictators, The need to obtain certain resources. why would Putin want to restore the soviet union.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Apr 22 - 05:01 PM

I based my comment on past experience, Hitlers invasion of Poland, was for resources, the polish coalfields
The Ruhr was an important industrial region of Germany close to the border with France and also home to many coalfields which were vital to Germany's industrial production and, therefore, its ability to pay reparations. Germany would sometimes


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Apr 22 - 12:46 PM

Let's stop with the insults and unsolicited insults. Dick's post was *that close* to being deleted except I was waiting to see if the claim about mining titanium had anything to do with all of this. Don't feed the trolls.

From an AP update comes this tidbit:
KVIV, Ukraine — Russia has begun dropping bunker-buster bombs on a Mariupol steel plant where Ukrainians are refusing to surrender, the commander of the Azov Regiment of the National Guard said Monday.

Russia is bombing the plant even though civilians are sheltering in the plant’s tunnels. “Russian occupational forces, and their proxy ... know about the civilians, and they keep willingly firing on the factory,” he said.
Russia estimated that 2,500 Ukrainian troops and about 400 foreign mercenaries were dug in. The U.S. said nearly a dozen Russian battalion tactical groups have been tied up trying to defeat them. . . . Ukraine estimates that 21,000 people have been killed in Mariupol. Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk warned Russia on social media that refusing to open humanitarian corridors will justify war crimes trials. The Russians, for their part, said “neo-Nazi nationalists” have hampered evacuations.
Link (though AP links don't stay live for long).


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Apr 22 - 12:19 PM

There's really no need for a gratuitous insult, Mr Miles.

This from Fox News (yes, I do look around...):

I've read most of everything he’s written," President Biden said of Russian President Vladimir Putin last month. "He has much larger ambitions in Ukraine. He wants to, in fact, reestablish the former Soviet Union. That’s what this is about."

Many experts believe that Biden is right. In an often cited and perhaps highly revealing comment years ago, Putin said that he believed the fall of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century.


Good to know that Joe Biden shares at least one of my fantasies!

Since 2008 Putin has annexed South Ossetia, taken Chechnya (whilst razing its capital, Grozny), annexed Crimea, attempted to occupy tracts of eastern Ukraine and is now trying to take the whole of Ukraine. You can bet your bottom dollar that his next target will be the extremely vulnerable Kuwalski gap, the short border between Poland and Lithuania. He needs to take that border in order to connect the strategic Russian enclave Kaliningrad with Russia - and to cut off Lithuania from other NATO countries. The Lithuanian people are living in mortal fear.

I won't call you naive, Dick, but let's just say that Putin's aims have become more and more transparent, though you appear not to have noticed...


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Apr 22 - 10:11 AM

Steve Shaw , how do you know what Putin thinks. how do you know that Putin wants to restore the soviet union, is this another of your fantasies
.USGS estimates that Ukraine produced 525,000 tonnes of titanium mineral concentrates last year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Apr 22 - 03:30 AM

Interview of Volodymyr Zelensky in The Atlantic


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Mudcat time: 12 August 2:17 AM EDT

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