BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Jun 22 - 05:32 AM

robomatic> technobabble

Strictly speaking, if they were real engineers, what they would have been talking would have been hackish. Technobabble is spoken (loudly) by those who don't know what they're talking about, eg middle management. Technobabble is also the title of a book mentioned in the bibliography of The New Hacker's Dictionary, along with Stan Kelly-Bootle's book (now retitled The Computer Contradictionary).

And looping back to music, I didn't realise till much later that Stan K-B was one of the founding fathers of Cambridge's folk scene, as well as working in what we now call Computer Science, so he was fully entitled to write computer filk. But that's perhaps the subject of a separate thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Jun 22 - 03:13 AM

My niece Emily is a language expert (she speaks several languages, including Japanese for some reason!)
Not long ago she announced that she now speaks Klingon. My sister and her are Startrek mad, the pair of them. My sister is madly in love with Mr Spock. (Isn't he the Vulcan one with the pointy ears?)

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Jun 22 - 06:18 PM

I experienced a sort of sci-fi/ technobabble/ fantasy repetitive experience for several yers in the early 80s. Whenever I was in a Chinese restaurant with others at the table, there was always a table within earshot with four engineers talking about computers. This went on for a few years, and resolved itself for good when I found myself AT THAT TABLE.

Meanwhile Mrrzy in honor of Lehrer and Von Braun:

"You too can be a big hero
Once you've learned to count down to zero
'In German or English, I know how to count down-
And I'm learning Chinese!'
Says Werner Von Braun"

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Jun 22 - 07:29 PM

Author Janny Wurts,
who collaborates with Raymond Feist on occasion,
has just announced to her readers at her webpages
the completion of the final book in her series,
The Wars of Light and Shadow.
It's book number eleven, if I recall right.

Fantasy to the max, with dragons, unicorns, necromancers, oh, my.
People who don't like Janny Wurts's writing REALLY don't like her.
I believe that she is a bit of a frustrated attorney.
One of the things that takes so much ink and paper in her writing
is how she makes a case for this character or that situation,
arguing their cause ... and then turns the whole thing on its ear.

Her fascination with the subtle vibrations in music interests me.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 29 May 22 - 11:47 AM

There was also a Star Trek NG episode where the translation machines worked perfectly, but understanding was impossible: the aliens* spoke totally in metaphors, and there was no mutual cultural traction. You can see the same effect in real life when nerds talk in jargon in a non-technical context, something which it's taken taking me a lifetime to stop doing.

* PS: I mistyped that as "apians", but realised that's us. Oook.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 May 22 - 11:06 AM

Larry Niven was all over that issue.

The scene with the Trinoc (I thought you were a gambler. / I gambled that you could only see out of the front of your head.) comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 28 May 22 - 03:13 AM

Donuel, 11th May:

> Which authors have avoided the absurd assumptions that would allow
> for the possibility of communication with aliens of a different
> evolution.

I'd have replied to that earlier, but I've been busy rereading Vernor Vinge's A Deepness In The Sky, which includes a portrayal in depth of some of the most alien aliens I've ever encountered; much of the plot turns on the problems of communication, and the (very alien but oh-so-human) way the humans overcome them. Good classic-style hard SF, with the necessary strong moral compass, and not a telepath in sight. (It also includes an all-but-direct reference to my favourite computer operating system, but that's one for the nerds.)

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 May 22 - 09:57 PM

Excellent!
I was hoping that somebody besides me would remember
E. M. Forster's "The Machine Stops."

the late Doris Lessing made a rather noisy foray into
fantasy fiction, I remember reading some of it.
Of course she is an eminent writer and had something to say,
but her arrogance made me uneasy:
she was composing myths, and she KNEW IT. A bit much.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 May 22 - 10:42 AM

"Some have harsh words
For this man of renown
But some say our attitude
Should be one of gratitude
Like the widows and cripples
In old London town
Who owe their large pensions
To Werner von Braun."

Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Stanron
Date: 21 May 22 - 09:06 PM

Anyone remember E E Doc Smith? I once nearly missed my bus stop because I didn't want to stop reading.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 21 May 22 - 07:30 PM

While I like the easy flow of Niven I enjoy realism in the mix of new technologies that may or may not be neutral since science is definetly effected by ideology. No one knows if the intrinsic good in people will outweigh the bad. Werner von Braun comes to mind. We have recovered some V2's from the water and the hand made engines were like a work of art made by slave labor. Nazi science invented things like the electron microscope and unspeakable horrors in biological experiments against people's will.

Societies ideology knows what has killed hundreds of millions of people while nuclesr weapons and production has probably only killed an undocumented 10's of millions. Tobbacco has killed hundreds of millions.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Joe_F
Date: 21 May 22 - 05:33 PM

Some of the most memorable sf was written by people who were not sf authors, such as Rudyard Kipling ("Easy as ABC" -- a Tory Anarchist utopia) and E. M. Forster ("The Machine Stops" -- anticipates the Internet).

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 May 22 - 02:07 PM

Larry Niven characters sang great songs, too

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 17 May 22 - 06:11 PM

Dave the Gnome, Alan Garner is one of my favourite authors. I have a few of his books.

Tonight on TV in Oz the movie A Scanner Darkly will be aired. It's an animated version based on a story by Philip K. Dick. I think that might be the story that I tried to read but the drugs theme put me off, so I'll watch the movie and then read the story properly.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 May 22 - 12:08 PM

I just read "Treacle Walker" by Alan Garner and it was a treat. Short but very enjoyable. Highly recommended.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Neil D
Date: 14 May 22 - 03:49 PM

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote a handful of sci-fi novels.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Amergin
Date: 13 May 22 - 06:16 PM

Oh and for other authors who strayed into the speculative realm, look at Jack London and his Iron Heel.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Amergin
Date: 13 May 22 - 06:16 PM

Living in Portland, I got to meet Ursula Le Guin once at a poetry reading. I wish I had the sense to take our picture together, like I did with John Prine, but I did get her autograph.

As for science fiction, I can't recommend Jeff Vandermeer enough. His Southern Reach trilogy is brilliant and strange, very well written. The first one (Annihilation) was made into a film, but as is often the case, the book is miles better.

Also for something along the lines of On the Beach, Cormac McCarthy's The Road is amazing. The writing...holy shit, the writing, the format, everything to create a sense of plodding and dread through out the story. My god, that man can write.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 May 22 - 05:09 PM

Asimov wrote some scifi murder mysteries

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 May 22 - 09:27 AM

Donuel:
Which authors have avoided the absurd assumptions that would allow for the possibility of communication with aliens of a different evolution.
Learning that perceptions would most likely be very different.
"Project Hail Mary" by Andy Weir (author of 'The Martian')
This is his second book, and shortlisted for this year's Hugo awards.
Most of the book deals with interactions between just one earthman, and one eridanian (sightless, and communicating by musicality)

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 12 May 22 - 08:37 PM

my local cosmologist

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 12 May 22 - 04:39 PM

I liked the low gravity of Ringworld but lost interest.
I like The Good Place but not Good Omens.
Decades later I even like Ike.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Bill D
Date: 12 May 22 - 01:44 PM

Urk.. of course.. I even mentioned Ringworld earlier. Fingers faster that brain sometimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Neil D
Date: 12 May 22 - 12:51 AM

Bill D, Larry Niven wrote "Ringworld". Did you mean to say "Riverworld"?

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Bill D
Date: 11 May 22 - 06:59 PM

Philip Jose Farmer is/was a real mixed bag. He was 'creative', but he bit off more then he could chew as he developed Ringworld.
   Some absolutely amazing ideas taken to conceptual incoherence.
I know.. 'de gustibus non disputandem est', and YMMV. I am reminded of the philosophical logical fallacy "ex falso [sequitur] quodlibet, 'from falsehood, anything [follows]"
   In Farmer's case, it suggests that the very 'creative' aspects of his ideas led to such hard-to-follow story lines that they seem to just be whims that he expanded like improvised jazz, but with far less rules.
   I suspect that his mind was a strange place to contemplate, and this is borne out by his stories such as "Strange Relations" and novels like "Blown". http://www.pjfarmer.com/WORKS-books-blown.html
I am NOT advocating censorship, but merely noting that much of his stories don't seem to "me" to fit what *I* call science-fiction. I am not alone in that feeling.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 May 22 - 06:29 PM

Don, I have the audiobook of Good Omens. I keep forgetting about the recent Tennant version, I should watch it. It helps to know what's going on, I think, and you get that from the book or audiobook.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 11 May 22 - 06:29 PM

Thanks, perhaps I am glitchy right now. This Sunday we will have a near lunar eclipse (the flower moon) which will be a a reddish peach color.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 11 May 22 - 05:55 PM

Donuel, your link didn't work for me so I searched for it:

Cheshire Cat

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 11 May 22 - 05:05 PM

eww I'm more of a 'The Good Place' fan.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 11 May 22 - 04:50 PM

I gonna watch good omens now...

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 11 May 22 - 04:02 PM

When I was still going to the children's room at the library, I was always tempted by the books by John Christopher. I read a couple but they never really grabbed me. Then (as an adult) I saw the TV series "The Tripods" and liked it very much. I then read the books and liked them, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 11 May 22 - 03:59 PM

"Which authors have avoided the absurd assumptions that would allow for the possibility of communication with aliens of a different evolution.
Learning that perceptions would most likely be very different."

Philip K. Dick in at least one short story and maybe more. If anyone really wants to know, which one or ones, I could check the books out of the library and try to find them. I wouldn't mind reading them again.

Stanislaw Lem as well.

"For example when a dolphin is in the air it is half blind because in the water it uses sonar that sees inside our bodies like our micro sound machines that we use on pregnant women."

I never!

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 11 May 22 - 03:58 PM

Good Omens was my introduction to Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman.

I loved it, and there beginneth my story of addiction to Pratchett. And I confess to tempting others around me to the same addiction. Mea culpa! LOL

I have the Good Omens series on DVD and I enjoyed it but the initial joy of discovering Pratchett when I read the book overtakes the enjoyment of watching the series.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 May 22 - 02:02 PM

Good Omens is brilliant, SRS. have you seen the TV series too? I thought it was a good adaptation and the charecterisations by David Tennant and Michael Sheen were wonderful.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 11 May 22 - 01:47 PM

Which authors have avoided the absurd assumptions that would allow for the possibility of communication with aliens of a different evolution.
Learning that perceptions would most likely be very different.

For example when a dolphin is in the air it is half blind because in the water it uses sonar that sees inside our bodies like our micro sound machines that we use on pregnant women. Or dwarf stars that last longer than the sun allowing for longer evolution would create eyes more in the infrared that is their predominant wavelength. Sound is the most unlikely thing we could have in common perception wise imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 May 22 - 01:06 PM

Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett's Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch is a marvelous fantasy-type novel that always works to improve my mood by the time I finish it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Neil D
Date: 11 May 22 - 02:20 AM

I always liked Asimov, particularly "The Foundation Trilogy" and Niven's "Ringworld". Lem is brilliant and I loved everything Zelazny wrote. But my favorite Sci-fi writer was Philip Jose Farmer. Books like "Riverworld", "The Other Log of Phileas Fogg" and the "Dayworld" series are extremely inventive. Even though Farmer is my favorite (Sci-fi) author, my favorite Sci-Fi novel is by little-known Clifford Simak, a tome called "City". I love it because it is not only a science fiction novel but it is also a series of dog stories.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 11 May 22 - 12:16 AM

I've read LeGuin's Earthsea books a few times over the years. I like them a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 10 May 22 - 10:39 PM

"Ursula K. LeGuin was very good, although I didn't delve into
her fantasy works.. "The Left Hand of Darkness" was as good as they come."

The three original Earthsea books are excellent. They are for children but can be enjoyed by adults, too. I reread them every so often.

I didn't like her later books. I felt the same way about Roger Zelazny. I liked some of his earlier books a lot, especially "Jack of Shadows".

I thought it might have been a somewhat obscure one, so I checked Wikipedia. Appparently it isn't so obscure. The article states:
"Zelazny wrote it in first draft, with no rewrites." On this subject, Truman Capote is quoted as saying "That's not writing, that's typing", (but to Jack Kerouac, not Zelazny).

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 10 May 22 - 08:03 PM

If you like a challenge try Nabokov's Pale Fire.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 02 May 22 - 04:46 PM

Bill D, I totally agree about "The Left Hand of Darkness".

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Bill D
Date: 02 May 22 - 11:56 AM

Ursula K. LeGuin was very good, although I didn't delve into
her fantasy works.. "The Left Hand of Darkness" was as good as they come.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 01 May 22 - 05:18 PM

They lose less lives too.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 01 May 22 - 05:12 PM

Yup, Helen: thought experiments tend to use less expensive lab equipment.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 01 May 22 - 04:15 PM

My personal view is that SF is socially responsible because by projecting current ideas, or social or political policies into the future we can see the consequences and effects on our world or our society. It helps to review the likely outcomes of decisions and hopefully proactively revise those decisions if necessary. It's easier to prevent disasters before they occur than to clean up afterwards and live with the aftermath. (As I used to keep saying to managers in my various workplaces, a lot of whom seemed to be unaware or unconcerned for the consequences of their decisions, but don't get me started on that!)

One of my favourite authors is Ursula K. LeGuin and I think that she showed a lot of social awareness in her work. Margaret Atwood's ventures into future worlds are similar. It's the effects and consequences on people which are core to her work.

I was very surprised to see Louis L'Amour's name on the wiki list of SF authors. We had so many of his western novels in our collection at the public library. I don't remember any SF titles.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 May 22 - 12:03 PM

Simon Bestwick, who I recommended earlier, is now publishing under the name Daniel Church.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 01 May 22 - 11:47 AM

Dr Who was always a Beeb production, but that didn't stop it deteriorating with age and neglect, twice now. SF has always been popular with Real People, and therefore a bit declassé, so it doesn't have sufficient snob value with Them Up Top. They love the money it brings in, but, this side of the pond at least, they can't bring themeselves to admit they like it for itself to each other.

Meanwhile, books by Agatha Christie continue to be televised, despite (as Terry Pratchett pointed out) the stories being set in just as unreal a setting as SF: it's just a fantasy about the past. Now if we could launch the idea that SF is reminiscing about the future .... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 30 Apr 22 - 04:00 PM

MaJoC the Filk, I guess you are right. Although wasn't Dr Who a Beeb production? Nearly 60 years ago and still powering on. It can't be that bad for business. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 30 Apr 22 - 03:42 PM

> My point was that some mainstream authors sometimes stray into the
> speculative genre.

It's slightly worse than that, Helen: as soon as someone who's highly rated in more literary genres produces something which might be called SF, They Who Write The Rules sniff loudly and move the goalposts. If provoked, I'll provide a link to the quote to the effect that the one foe that the Blake's 7 crew could never defeat was the BBC's "long-standing apathy towards science fiction".

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Apr 22 - 03:26 PM

Since no one's mentioned him yet, and at least a couple of us here are fans, Charles De Lint.
He writes fantasy, or what's been called "Urban Fantasy". He also plays fiddle. I ended up buying one of his books twice, because there were pages of fiddle tunes he'd written in the back. ("The Little Country") Many of his books feature musicians.