BS: Latin translation from a plague cross???

Subject: BS: Latin translation from a plague cross???
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 May 22 - 03:27 AM

Any Latinophones in this parish? Looking for translation of inscription from the cross commemorating 315 burials without coffins in one night in 1637.
The inscription on this Plague Cross is:

Plague
An Dom 1637
Burial 315
L Hera nos Domino

Though it might be Domina
I don't see it as Libera nos Domine as the metal plaque nearby has it. (Lord deliver us)

Goggle translates my reading as:
Libera Hera nos Domino > Deliver us Mistress to the Lord
libera Hera nos Domino > Deliver us to the Lord Mistress
Libera Hera nos Domina > Deliver us Mistress

I am assuming that the Mistress is "Mother Earth" or the plague.

Gratias ago tibi, dum praecavens

Subject: RE: BS: Latin translation from a plague cross???
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 May 22 - 03:46 AM

Well, "Libera nos domine" (deliver us O Lord) would be a typical inscription. I enlarged the photo and tweaked the colors, but still couldn't make out what it says.

Subject: RE: BS: Latin translation from a plague cross???
From: Helen
Date: 24 May 22 - 05:12 AM

I searched for

inscription on Plague Cross, St Mary's Churchyard Ross on Wye UK

and found a close up photo of the inscription.

It appears to read Libera nos Domino i.e. deliver us to the Lord

There is a vertical line on the right hand side of the "b" in Libera which could possibly have been a stonemason's "typo", putting the vertical line on the wrong side of the letter and then correcting it. (No delete button available back then!)

It doesn't read as Libera Hera because that right hand vertical line joins the "b" and it is one word not two. Possibly the "typo" was initially inscribed as "Lidera" and then corrected to "Libera" but the first line could not be erased.

Subject: RE: BS: Latin translation from a plague cross???
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 24 May 22 - 06:09 AM

The All isn't part of the Latin phrase.

Subject: RE: BS: Latin translation from a plague cross???
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 May 22 - 06:34 AM

I should have submitted the close-up to Geograph. It is there now. see https://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/07/18/07/7180785_e3acf38e_original.jpg

The page including text is https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/7180785 - they are all pending moderation as of this datestamp, I would reckon the image is available. But I am logged-in so who knows.

There might be a letter between nos & Domino but it would have to be a hyphenated a, e or i - again Goggle would suggest "e-" not alters the Domino - and just tags i- or a- without translation.

Subject: RE: BS: Latin translation from a plague cross???
From: Helen
Date: 24 May 22 - 06:55 AM

Sorry, Manitas, I don't understand what you are referring to. Could you explain what you mean, please?

"The All isn't part of the Latin phrase."

Subject: RE: BS: Latin translation from a plague cross???
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 24 May 22 - 07:09 AM

All "my eye and Betty Martin" .

Subject: RE: BS: Latin translation from a plague cross???
From: Helen
Date: 24 May 22 - 03:34 PM

The "r" in "Libera" looks like it might have been squeezed in as a correction as well. It is aligned closely with the right-hand vertical line which would have made the "d" which appears to have been changed to a "b".

Thinking on the situation that people faced in the plague and comparing it with the current COVID pandemic especially in the early days of COVID when there were large numbers of deaths in some areas or countries, there could have been a shortage of skilled stonemasons who were literate in English and Latin because they may have died in the plague. The inscription on the stone may have been done by someone who was less skilled.

Subject: RE: BS: Latin translation from a plague cross???
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 May 22 - 06:19 PM

I'm still sticking with Libera nos, Domine. - "Domine" being vocative (i.e., addressing the Lord). "Deliver us to the Lord" would be "Libera nos ad Dominum." (accusative). I think the final letter is a botched-up "e" that looks like an "o."

And for your cultural edification about the use of the phrase, here is a Litany for St. Omer's.

Cheers!

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Latin translation from a plague cross???
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 24 May 22 - 06:29 PM

what an amazing site, thanks for posting it Mr Red

Subject: RE: BS: Latin translation from a plague cross???
From: Helen
Date: 25 May 22 - 12:15 AM

Joe, I bow to your superior knowledge. I think the extremely short inscription is bursting with typos, so domine makes more sense but the "e" definitely looks like an "o".

Subject: RE: BS: Latin translation from a plague cross???
From: DaveRo
Date: 25 May 22 - 02:31 AM

...Litany for St. Omer's.

Kipling used the same form and phrase in The Wet Litany - which is about fog.

Peter Bellamy sang it on the LP Mr. Kipling Made Exceedingly Good Songs.

Subject: RE: BS: Latin translation from a plague cross???
From: Mr Red
Date: 31 May 22 - 06:13 PM

Thanx peoples.

I posted the close-up and asked on the Milestone Fakebook Group.

The conclusion was much the same. Libera nos Domine (or Domino)

The base of the cross with the inscription is contemporary with the plague. One pundit thought the style/font was too Georgian/Victorian for 17^th C. And it has survived well............

Subject: RE: BS: Latin translation from a plague cross???
From: Helen
Date: 31 May 22 - 07:28 PM

Thanks for the update, Mr Red.

I take back what I said about:

"The "r" in 'Libera' looks like it might have been squeezed in as a correction as well."

I thought there was a shadow of an "r" after the "b" but I just had a bit of a playaround with a graphics programme, adjusting the dark/light, contrast, etc and it appears to be a blob of colour in the stone itself, so ignore that bit.

I vote for "Libera nos Domine".

Regarding the opinion that the style/font was too Georgian/Victorian for 17th C, it would be worth looking at other inscriptions from the time of the plague inscription to see if that font was used. I think the font is similar to a lot of printed works of the time and also possibly fonts used in church inscriptions - no, not fonts for christenings! LOL

I still stand by my hypothesis that the inscription was not necessarily done by a literate or skilled stonemason given the loss of lives during the plague.

Subject: RE: BS: Latin translation from a plague cross???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 May 22 - 08:56 PM

If it was 'H' the bottom would be open. It's not. To me it pretty clearly looks like a 'b', which, as Helen suggests, was corrected from a mistaken 'd' put in by a mason whose Latin wasn't too good, and thought the word required was 'lidera'.