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BS: How old is our mind

Donuel 24 Jul 22 - 03:02 PM
Helen 24 Jul 22 - 03:47 PM
Senoufou 25 Jul 22 - 04:28 AM
Acorn4 25 Jul 22 - 04:39 AM
Doug Chadwick 25 Jul 22 - 05:17 AM
Steve Shaw 25 Jul 22 - 05:29 AM
Helen 25 Jul 22 - 05:38 AM
Donuel 25 Jul 22 - 06:59 AM
Donuel 25 Jul 22 - 08:22 AM
Mrrzy 25 Jul 22 - 02:04 PM
Steve Shaw 25 Jul 22 - 02:25 PM
Mr Red 26 Jul 22 - 02:54 PM
MaJoC the Filk 26 Jul 22 - 04:17 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Jul 22 - 05:24 PM
Mr Red 27 Jul 22 - 02:12 AM
Mr Red 27 Jul 22 - 02:28 AM
Pete from seven stars link 27 Jul 22 - 07:59 AM
Donuel 27 Jul 22 - 11:17 AM
Donuel 01 Aug 22 - 08:39 PM
Donuel 02 Aug 22 - 05:59 PM
Donuel 04 Aug 22 - 04:22 PM
Mr Red 05 Aug 22 - 01:59 PM
Donuel 05 Aug 22 - 08:11 PM

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Subject: BS: How old is our mind
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jul 22 - 03:02 PM

Before I was 10 I was told about a wierd Russian scientist Lyesenko. He was a geneticist elevated by Stalin for his work with crops but he had some strange ideas that changed me forever like kids who were told that Jesus would always be there to help. His idea was 'genetic memory' that goes beyond anything we have been taught in school. In short "We know more than we need to know".
What feels like prescience may be DNA encoded memory. The mere possibility of this being true helped me access more of my unconscious mind in my opinion. In a way, we are unique combinations of Carl Jungs archetypes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4gFC6uDX1M&list=TLPQMjQwNzIwMjJ3sxTdk97ZBQ&index=2 The windows and mirrors of our mind when enhanced with unique possibilities be it genetic memory or food of the Gods like magic mushrooms is indeed a game changer. Our minds may be much older than we thought. There is no evidence but we might even have exo species memory, which is an idea wierder than Lysenko's.

GOOD NEWS! I have decided to not use mudcat BS as an interactive blog or notepad, so my overbearing presence will be limited to personal communication or announcements.
Thanks for all the fish.

In the end https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEENEFaVUzU


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Helen
Date: 24 Jul 22 - 03:47 PM

Donuel, I may not always know what you mean but...I appreciate your presence here.

You always spark my thoughts and evaluations of what is considered "normal" life.

Please don't take away your interesting and quirky comments from Mudcat.

All the best, Helen

Your link:

Your mind is much older than you think | genetic memory & Carl Jung's collective unconscious


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Jul 22 - 04:28 AM

Oh Donuel, I find your posts so interesting, and you often have a unique viewpoint which I always enjoy reading. Please continue to post here. I for one would miss you!
The idea of genetic memory is fascinating. I think I've said on here recently that my Irish mother could have had African genes inherited from slaves unloaded at the port of Cork. Well, when I was about three, I apparently started talking in a strange language, and my mum asked me what it was. I answered "African!" and babbled away often. Later in life, when my mother imitated this to me as best she could, I recognised it as possibly Yoruba or Igbo (Nigerian languages). Now I couldn't possibly have 'picked up' this from any source at three years old! Are there African memories in my genes I wonder?
However, those experiments on mice to prove the theory were rather cruel. Electric shocks? Oh dear.


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Acorn4
Date: 25 Jul 22 - 04:39 AM

It sounds a fascinating piece of research.


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 25 Jul 22 - 05:17 AM

Are there African memories in my genes I wonder?

No!

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jul 22 - 05:29 AM

Well it's certainly an area for proper scientific research. Our understanding of inheritance is far better in matters of physical or physiological characteristics than it is with regard to instinct, intelligence or memory, etc. Sadly, there is as yet little or no evidence for genetic memory that would stand up to rigorous scientific scrutiny, scrutiny that's very hard to execute (as with trying to "prove" that there's no God). It remains an area of interest but we're not past the hypothesis stage. Always beware of clinging to cherished notions which force us to stay on a single thought track, like those chaps who lay great store by their experience of "savants..."

Steve (sceptic since 1951)


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Helen
Date: 25 Jul 22 - 05:38 AM

I didn't see you second link. Here it is:

The Last Human – A Glimpse Into The Far Future


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jul 22 - 06:59 AM

I'm just working on a time consuming piece about my grandpa who was part of the Oklahoma homestead land rush. Grandma didn't see him again in Illinois but he did pick a land lot that later produced oil. The research is crazy and slow work. Compared to the 40 acres and a mule act being recinded earlier, there was much institutional racism. I'm going to try to follow two actual families and how the US government historicly blessed or cursed them. Lurking works for me since I have to be the slowest writer on Earth right behind Steven Hawking.


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jul 22 - 08:22 AM

" There is no evidence but we might even have exo species memory, which is an idea wierder than Lysenko's."
Our 'lizard brain' is just a rhetorical device but once our DNA was sequenced we saw that coincidentally we had DNA segments from other species such as a cat. There is a possibility of rare viral infections that can introduce foreign DNA. That's how we did it intentionally today but modern CRISPR is a better instant gene scissors that allow us to cut and paste genes into an existing genetic code.

In the last 30 years we have gone from naming the extremely long stretches of unknown DNA as 'junk DNA' to realizing they have instructions for complex protein formation and switches that turn dormant genes on or off.
We still do not know the answer to the question of why politicians often have dinosaur brains.


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Jul 22 - 02:04 PM

What happened in 1951,Steve?


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jul 22 - 02:25 PM

Hatched.


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Jul 22 - 02:54 PM

Now, there is plenty of scientific research into kittens born to starving cats, which turn into smaller adult cats. And the grandkitties are smaller than average but bigger than their mums.

And didn't they do the statistics in the Netherlands where late WW2 babies turned out small, and grandchildren showed signs of less than average. Though the current average height in the Netherlands is, I believe, big for Europeans.

Where there is evolutionary advantage, there must be memory in DNA. We didn't get to where we are today................


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 26 Jul 22 - 04:17 PM

Size of offspring vs nourishment of mother: The baby being small, methinks, reflects the child being underfed in the womb, and the fact that a small mother physically can't give birth to a huge baby. Memory in DNA isn't necessary on such a short timescale; change in diet over generations is more than sufficient.


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 22 - 05:24 PM

Correct. Please let's not stray too far from settled science.


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Jul 22 - 02:12 AM

Memory in DNA isn't necessary on such a short timescale

The Cats' research was reported in the New Scientists.

The size of offspring was said to carry through the generations to great-grandkitties with diminishing effect. It was reported/concluded to be an epigenetic / junk DNA effect. The first small cat was clearly under nourishment in the womb, but through the generations? There has to be faith in the peer revue process sometime.

As I said "if there is evolutionary advantage". Historic droughts are known to have covered many cat generations. Give it a few million years and fluctuating climate and the survivors were from the mutations that ................ come on, think on the macro scale, or trust the research. The question is, does human DNA carry some of that from 500 million years of mammalian evolution?

And I would be way more sceptical of thought processes turning epigenetic levers.


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Jul 22 - 02:28 AM

For a person living all their life in fear (and that is all in the mind), such as a permanent war, their bodies would be flooded with hormones all the time to cope with that, like cortisol and adrenaline. What would that do epigenetically? & what mutations would occur over time and win out?

Difficult to see research on that, and with commensurate "controls".

It is known that during the NI "Troubles" more male babies were born than usual. My Bro-in-Law reckoned that was due to copulation being less regular, more opportunist with males off to fight and popping home occasionally. And the probability of when in the menstrual cycle fertilisation occurs. I would still ask if cortisol etc would factor-in. The effect was small but significant, the statistics were robust.


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 27 Jul 22 - 07:59 AM

“…settled science…. Like the ‘junk dna’ that Donuel mentioned ?


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jul 22 - 11:17 AM

In the US slaves had starving diets. As a result offspring used food as efficiently as possible letting a little food go a long way. Reasearch has shown the obeisity rates among those and later children of the starved are enormous but eat normal amounts.

We have sequenced our DNA but we don't know what switches on or off genes that can respond to amazing conditions that are unknown to us.

I once wrote a story about 'luck' as an inherited trait in an unusual family. It involved sensing time just a bit sooner than most.


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Aug 22 - 08:39 PM

100,000


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Aug 22 - 05:59 PM

Most likely disguised as other factors ie. psychic, the most outrageous notion of a possible inherited trait is that of luck.
The new Disney movie treats the subject affectionately in their new movie 'Luck'.


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Aug 22 - 04:22 PM

It is probably not as old as https://www.spores101.co/amazon-liveculture.html but there are no living witnesses. Some of the hominid
species now extinct could have; been prey, poor immune systems, problematic organ systems or faced an unsuitable enviornment.


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Aug 22 - 01:59 PM

New Scientist, November 13th 2013 - article entitled "Written In Blood"

In essence it is saying that epigenetic sections of DNA modify genes by a process of methylation. And lifestyle is written in the epigenetics switches. Like smoking, abuse in early life, and to some extent adult PTSD, etc etc. Now it doesn't say epigenetics is written in sperm, but sperm is "manufactured" all the time and it begs a question. Eggs are said to have been manufactured before birth so lifestyle may not be part of the equation via epigentics.

Of the many aspects of reading blood DNA and extracting meaning from epigenetic changes was the warning that legislation does not seem to cover such scenarios as prospective insurers &/or employers from reading meanings in the epigenetics. IE a privacy issue.


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Subject: RE: BS: How old is our mind
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 22 - 08:11 PM

That makes sense since a mothers dna can be traced way back. Sperm must be the variable that helps short term.

By legislation we can not even own our own DNA. If you ever gave blood it probably already got patented.


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