BS: Bring back beautiful films

Subject: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Aug 22 - 10:44 AM

I miss the gorgeous spectacles of a Dances with Wolves film and am fed up with the post apocolyptic and Marvel nonsense. When there is a beautiful film today it is often a documentary.
It can be a humorous take and still be beautiful like Little Big Man.
I still need to be reminded of the beautiful but honest movies especially in this age when there is so much to lose.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Aug 22 - 11:35 AM

Dances With Wolves in which a white man rescues a white woman from her home with tribal people because she couldn't possibly be happy living with them. In real life, that "rescue" killed Cynthia Parker and her daughter, she was miserable when forced to live with whites again.

Little Big Man at least used a fair number of Indian actors. It has been too long since I watched it. Today it probably wouldn't have aged well.

Perhaps what you are hankering for films that aren't filled with CGI. Verisimilitude is another matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Aug 22 - 12:00 PM

It is a great depiction of learning to communicate with aliens. The woman you speak of initiated communication gradually and was very happy with her acquired culture, perhaps one reason why Kevin grew to love her.
Kevin was the immigrant in the movie. I see no reason to construct a feminist hate plot especially with the wonderful land, skies and animals. The unsympathetic depiction of white men along with the grand music of John Barry is very honest and powerful. Its odd you can not see the beauty. The frontier before it disappeared was beautiful until the US Army shows up to kill off the native culture.

Like Avatar the first half is beauty followed by conflict.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 27 Aug 22 - 12:26 PM

"Indian actors", SRS? Or Native Americans/First Nations?

Agree with Donuel that, overall, Dances with Wolves is a very good movie.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Aug 22 - 01:40 PM

You? With your butter-wouldn't-melt-in-your-mouth racist attitudes that will get you banned permanently next time, are objecting to terms used at the time the films were produced? REALLY?

Dances with Wolves was an insult to tribal people everywhere. Just as the films like Hidden Figures (great book, rotten movie) and The Help were extremely offensive to black actors, suggesting they only get ahead when they have a white savior. Costner's character and that scene with the bathrooms wasn't in the book Hidden Figures. Some stupid film maker had to spoil the subplot about the women solving their own problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Aug 22 - 01:42 PM

Don, how about Flame Over India? Pretty dramatic, terribly racist and patronizing.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Aug 22 - 01:58 PM

Super, I don't think I've seen it.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 27 Aug 22 - 02:01 PM

Yes really, SRS - whenever these movies came out, when we critique them we should respectfully use "Native American" or "First Nation" actors & NOT "Indians" as you (especially as a moderator/editor) did?

Furthermore, as I've had to say before, you should be playing each ball on its merits rather than resorting to cheap shots when someone politely corrects you.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Aug 22 - 02:20 PM

I should do what you suggest? Really? You who want the English to stay English and all of your nonsense? Get a life.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Aug 22 - 02:26 PM

C'mon you two, isn't Steve vs. Donuel enough?
Not all nationalists are racists and vice versa but they are usually adjacent to each other. Sometimes a jolly good tiff feels good so don't let me intervene.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Aug 22 - 02:54 PM

Don, you might want to compare Flame Over India with The Jewel in the Crown. Worlds apart but set in the same period. Films like Gunga Din are truly cringe-worthy these days. They don't age well.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Aug 22 - 02:06 AM

There are still good films being made,scattered among the rubbish, as there have been as long sails have been made. The trouble is that it is pretty well impossible ever to see them on the big screen - even where there are still cinemas around, which is increasingly unlikely In many places.

Seeing a film on a TV is convenient, and enjoyable enough, but it just isn't the full experience. Most ofthe films we know and love we,ve never really seen. And I don,t think that,sgoing to change.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Aug 22 - 02:26 AM

As for the issue of how far films contribute to racism and the rest of the nastiness that has gone unrecognised, that's a pretty moot pint. The labels change, and that change matters, but only to a very limited extent. So long as people are downgraded, whatever label they are given is going to serve to amplify that.

Changing labels can help, but the new labels soon get the same stigmatising quality as the old. Only when the downgrading is gone for good does that change, and when, and if that has happened, the labels don't really matter anymore.

But that's a wider subject than whether or why good films are not to be seen.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: BobL
Date: 28 Aug 22 - 03:29 AM

You might find a few moot pints in the Lager thread...

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: DaveRo
Date: 28 Aug 22 - 03:43 AM

'Long sails' puzzled me.

Mudcat should have a preview facility. Oh, hang on...

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 28 Aug 22 - 05:59 AM

> Mudcat should have a preview facility.

Please see Muphry's Law (note speling), which "[] dictates that, if a mistake is as plain as the nose on your face, everyone can see it but you".

When I was proofshredding my thesis, I found each independent pass reduced the tyops only by a factor of Pi. This embarrassed me more than somewhat, as my great-grandfather was a proofreader for one of the London evening papers; then again, proofs were for technical reasons mirror images of the final page, so his brain's autocorrect wouldn't have interfered with the spellchecking.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Aug 22 - 10:01 AM

There was a film made in 1997 that was a Victorian style rendering of a story with elements similar to Jane Eyre except it allowed for early science to let a breeder of sheep to get himself an heir over a brief few days away from home. Years pass, and the young woman who was a surrogate tracks him down. It's a charming little film, beautifully photographed, good cast. But when it was released the religious folks got their hands on the review sites and were upset because there was nudity and sex outside marriage. Damn their faces - it was a beautiful little romance. Now it's almost impossible to find and only in a "formatted for your TV" DVD out of China. There is a German release (but not the right DVD zone for the US) that has the best view.

Firelight.

I managed to share my copy with a Mudcatter is years past (I think it was put on a Google file to be downloaded). I actually sent a note to the writer/director of the film expressing my admiration and sadness at how it was treated. He appreciated the few of us who actually got to see it and enjoy it.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 22 - 10:15 AM

"The stronger the sentiment, the greater the fault."
They got that right.

Filk;
"Ah you can't be convicted, you've earned your degree
The most folks can do is throw shadows at you
But you'll always have a PHD

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 22 - 10:34 AM

I tend to separate subject from beauty. I've enjoyed 'The Tudors' more than film versions of Shakespeare.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Aug 22 - 11:09 AM

The most visually striking flick I've seen in a while is "1917". Supposedly shot in just 2 continuous takes I found it possessed of a terrible beauty. It's much more impactful seen in a theater, if you can still find it there.
If you liked "The Tudors" you also might like the BBC series "Wolf Hall" which is based on an excellent trilogy of books by Hillary Mantel which follows the plight of Thomas Cromwell and some of Henry's wives. A second series "The Mirror and the Light" is supposed to appear at some point. Mark Rylance was superb as Cromwell.

---

You didn't really mean to call the family "Tutors," did you? Fixed. :) ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Aug 22 - 11:55 AM

Mark Rylance is superb in everything he does. As is Stephen Dillane, in the film above. Consummate actors.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Aug 22 - 01:01 PM

thnx, elf.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 22 - 01:21 PM

Two takes?!!
Unbelievable but having seen the film it brings a new visual majesty.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Aug 22 - 08:16 PM

What is missing are cinemas that give people the opportunity to see, on a proper screen, in a cinema theatre setting, the films which are only accessible at present on our TVs screen, from streaming services, broadcasters, or DVDs etc.

I suspect there could be a viable business model for that. The news that the major UK cinema chain Cineworld is in serious money trouble,and faces bankruptcy, suggests that the present business model of big cinemas just showing blockbusters may be on the way out.

There are plenty of excellent, and indeed beautiful films being made, especially away from Hollywood , and mostly not in English. But most of us will never get a chance to see them, except at best, on TV screens, in a setting where interruptions and distractions are inevitable.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Senoufou
Date: 29 Aug 22 - 02:21 AM

As children we were taken by our school to the cinema a few times, to see for example Ben Hur and also The Ten Commandments. We thought they were wonderful.
I have enjoyed 'Far From The Madding Crowd', set in Dorset.
I don't much like Sci-Fi stuff or spy/James Bond type of films. They seem to be more interesting to men, not women.
Just after the Second World War my father took me to see several 'war films' which I found boring. But he was obviously re-living his experiences as an RAF navigator.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Aug 22 - 06:39 AM

My school took us to Space 2001

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: keberoxu
Date: 29 Aug 22 - 07:55 AM

There was a lot to like about the cinema adaptation of
Isak Dinesen's "Babette's Feast,"
which I believe was in Danish.
It won Best Foreign Film many years ago.

With a newly found fortune,
a French emigrée who is a master gourmet chef,
shows her gratitude to the remote Danish island where she has found sanctuary,
and prepares for its Danish natives
an enormous feast.

By film's end, everybody is singing and laughing together,
all is happiness and contentment.
Up to that point,
the foibles of all the fallible humans in the film
are shown with gentle good humor,
as they would have been in Dinesen's superb storytelling.

I haven't seen it in years,
and I still remember how good it made me feel.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: DaveRo
Date: 29 Aug 22 - 09:37 AM

Babette's Feast - wikipedia
One if the Pope's favourite films, apparantly! I'll maybe buy the DVD on ebay - only a few quid.

DVD's are going out of fashion and I often look for ones of films I enjoyed years ago. I recently picked up a copy of Bertolucci's 1900, for example.
1900 - wikipedia

That probably qualifies as a 'beautiful' film, though beauty is by definition subjective.

I haven't been in a cinema for decades. I did recently see Belfast at the local arts centre.
Belfast - wikipedia
I thought it was good. The portrayal of Kenneth Branagh's chilhood during the troubles was beautiful. Was it truthful? Opinions differ.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Aug 22 - 11:10 AM

Over the years, once my kids were old enough to appreciate the stories, we would occasionally do movie nights at the house. I chose things they would like that were broadcast differently (like Blazing Saddles, which is really dumbed down for TV) but also things like 2001 and others.

The first time I did this was with a film that was the first DVD we bought that we could play on a nice computer monitor and watch like a movie, that was Chicken Run, a Nick Parks claymation film. I wanted them to understand more about the context, so I waited a few weeks and recorded another film, then we did movie night with Stalag 17. At first they fussed, it was black and white, but soon got into the story with the duplicitous Peter Graves versus William Holden. As soon as the movie was over I turned on Chicken Run, and as it starts, you get an aerial view of the long narrow chicken coops and it then zeroes in on Ginger's coop, number 17. I heard a double "ohhhh!" from the kids at that moment, and they watched it again with new understanding.

Some films are considered light entertainment, like Dirty Dancing, but actually it has an important B-plot when Penny gets an illegal abortion and is hurt in the process. We had a conversation about this as one of the reasons why legal abortion is so important - it wasn't a forced conversation. I probably explained to them what was happening at that part of the film.

Good films do more than entertain, they can teach. (I was talking to my 30-year-old son last night about noir films, and asked if he'd seen Double Jeopardy, one of the best of the best of noir out there. "You probably had us watch it," was his answer.) Chances are he'll be looking it up on our shared Netflix account this week.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: gillymor
Date: 29 Aug 22 - 11:58 AM

Fans of Film Noir might want to check out Noir Alley on TCM (Turner Classic Movies). Expertly hosted by Eddie Muller, it airs at midnight on Saturday and repeats on Sunday morning. He plays all the biggies as well as some forgotten gems.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Aug 22 - 12:27 PM

I have to pay extra to get TCM or I would. They do have a nice array of films. (The cable companies figured out early on that if they wanted more people to pay the inflated fees to cover all of the sports channels they needed to make people who were just there for films pay a premium for that access.)

The over-the-air channel here simply called Movies has noir and B-rated movies on Thursdays and Sundays.

Some small films slip into obscurity so are difficult to find later. There was a film that had a lot of sailing, wonderful to watch, called Riddle of the Sands set several years prior to WWI, that will probably never see light of day again. It was a gorgeous little film.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: DaveRo
Date: 29 Aug 22 - 01:38 PM

Riddle of the Sands is a book by Erskine Childers: a colourful character who was executed by the Irish Free State.

I've read the book, and remember the film. Lots of drifting about in the fog.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Aug 22 - 02:03 PM

Yes, I also remember a lot of fog. :) I've skimmed through the link and some of the spinoff links - a history of modern Ireland there for the reading.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Aug 22 - 02:06 PM

An unknown film today about tommorrow
https://diaboliquemagazine.com/unrelenting-bleakness-no-blade-of-grass-fifty-years-later/
This was a modern age beginning of the viral/pesticide apocalypse genre. The 30's had their share of movies about what was coming.

Movies that teach are good as long as they don't hit you over the head with a hammer. Some movies tried to be too beautiful and failed except for a scene or two like the Burton Taylor Cleopatra.

It can't be found today but there was film called Bug that was really about Chaos theory before its discovery. Like a butterfly leading to a hurricane every scene influenced the following scene of the world or people and things influencing the next scene. There is a different movie called Bug about a crazy guy in a motel that sucked but survived.

There do seem to be films that are lost to posterity like Iron Maidens, a British story about antique tractors and the people who used them. If its not horror, violence or sci fi they seem to get filed or thrown away.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: DaveRo
Date: 29 Aug 22 - 03:44 PM

Do you mean The Iron Maiden, which is about traction engines, not tractors. That shows up on TV here in the UK every year or two.

The Talking Pictures TV channel has films like that - and Riddle of the Sands. Some are worth watching again - Kind Hearts and Coronets, The Lavender Hill Mob, The Titfield Thunderbolt.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Aug 22 - 07:43 PM

Thanks Dave, I hadn't come across that Channel. I see tomorrow they've got a Dick Barton film - and next Saturday The Grapes of Wrath.

Yes, there is lots of intriguing stuff around. But a TV screen is always a second-best, invaluable as it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 06:32 AM

Dave thats it! I saw that when I was 6.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: DaveRo
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 02:11 PM

I watched an interesting film about making The Iron Maiden
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hnmVZlPHIhw

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Aug 22 - 08:17 AM

Foriegn films are refreshimg compared to the typical formula crap from Hollywood. Zorba the Greek comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Aug 22 - 05:05 PM

Remember, most films are "foreign films", no matter where you come from.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: Neil D
Date: 02 Sep 22 - 05:20 PM

I remember a movie from a while back called "Disappearances" from a while back. It is set in the wilderness area around the Maine/Quebec border. I was quite taken with the beauty of the landscape and the cinematography that exposed it. It felt like the scenery was a character in the movie.

Subject: RE: BS: Bring back beautiful films
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Sep 22 - 08:39 PM

"Beautiful" is a term that can be limiting, in the sense of appreciating the technical and inspirational arts that go into a movie, and may extend the life of the movie and the appreciation of the movie. I had a neighbor who was a seamstress who insisted on seeing the movie "Restoration" with me and boy was she right. The film had a good plot but has not lived in critical memory, but the fabrics in the film were so magnificent you got a sense of texture from them.

Also we are in an age of wonderful and important documentaries. I will watch anything that David Attenboroough narrates. He seems to be spending a large amount of his time recording for the BBC and like film sources.

There was an incredibly skillful documentary on the intimate lives of various bees that a great nature photographer put together in his backyard during Covid isolation. Magnificent.

As for whether or not films maintain their 'relevance' or their appropriateness over the years, that's asking a lot, but it is an interesting topic. There are flicks I enjoyed very much when I was young which I am more or less sanguine about confessing these days. One I admire as both beautiful, well cast, well acted, and relevant its entire run is "In the Heat of the Night." 55 years old, now. Just rewatched and enjoyed every minute.