BS: The war for history, science and fascism

Subject: BS: The war for history, science and fascism
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 09:38 PM

Laws prohibiting teaching certain history and certain scientific principles are a fascist quest. Holocaust deniers are still with us.
A preemptive elimination of the scourge will save more lives than letting fascism fester. But will it happen?

Subject: RE: BS: The war for history, science and fascism
From: Senoufou
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 04:06 AM

A teacher here in UK was sacked recently apparently, because he refused to use the pronoun 'he' for one of his female 13yr old pupils. She had decided she was really a boy, but he was reluctant to use her chosen pronoun before consulting her parents. The 'Woke Brigade' then sacked him, but he's appealing it was 'Unfair Dismissal' (which it was in my opinion!)
Many teachers are not happy with this sex/gender problem being taught in schools. One cannot change ones biological sex. And the concept is leading to youngsters wanting operations to physically alter their bodies (breast removal, hysterectomy etc) Science can't be manipulated like this, and the outcomes could be tragic for these young people.

Subject: RE: BS: The war for history, science and fascism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 04:16 AM

Well I for one agreed with the sacking of the teacher.

Subject: RE: BS: The war for history, science and fascism
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 05:54 AM

Nearly 10 years ago, on Valentine's Day 2013, when 'Woke' used to be referred to as politically correct, Neil Gaiman wrote this

I was reading a book (about interjections, oddly enough) yesterday which included the phrase “In these days of political correctness…” talking about no longer making jokes that denigrated people for their culture or for the colour of their skin. And I thought, “That’s not actually anything to do with ‘political correctness’. That’s just treating other people with respect.”

Which made me oddly happy. I started imagining a world in which we replaced the phrase “politically correct” wherever we could with “treating other people with respect”, and it made me smile.

You should try it. It’s peculiarly enlightening.

I know what you’re thinking now. You’re thinking “Oh my god, that’s treating other people with respect gone mad!”

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: The war for history, science and fascism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 06:11 AM

I haven't heard of a UK teacher who was embroiled in the gender-neutral dispute. Perhaps you're thinking of a recent case in Ireland, in which the recalcitrant teacher was not only sacked but also jailed for contempt. He wasn't refusing to refer to a girl by boys' pronouns, just to use gender-neutral words. He is an evangelical Christian of the worst sort and I hardly think it's "woke" to see what a repressive throwback he is, totally unfit to stand in front of children.

Subject: RE: BS: The war for history, science and fascism
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 07:10 AM

Florida has 600 book bannings. Most have to do with gender issues and secondly the book's protagonist is not white.

Subject: RE: BS: The war for history, science and fascism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 07:18 AM

"Many teachers are not happy with this sex/gender problem being taught in schools. One cannot change ones biological sex."

Well perhaps we should stop seeing it as a problem. Fifty years ago being gay was a problem, right? As for biological sex, well there's a right can of worms. I think biologists stopped seeing gender as an all-or-nothing concept a long time ago. Not because they went all woke, but because that's how it is, a sort of spectrum, admittedly with most, but by no means all, people close to one end or the other. We have got to get away from seeing people who are not happy in the gender they have been slotted into as prima donna attention-seekers. They need sympathy and help, not to speak of protection from anti-wokers. The daughter of someone close to me, a very intelligent person who was at university, killed herself whilst in a state of turmoil over just this. Just sayin'.

Subject: RE: BS: The war for history, science and fascism
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 11:39 AM

Meanwhile, back at the first post:

> Laws prohibiting teaching certain history and certain scientific
> principles are a fascist quest.

.... "Scopes", thinks I, hotly pursued by "McCarthy". Soapy Sam was disqualified, despite being ahead on points, for failing at the water jump.

Let there be flames.

Subject: RE: BS: The war for history, science and fascism
From: Rain Dog
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 01:05 PM

Enoch Burke is the Irish teacher who has been jailed for contempt.

"The school put Burke on paid administrative leave after he allegedly confronted the principal at a public event and questioned her in a “heated” manner, a claim Burke denies. After Burke continued to attend the school, it obtained a court order barring him from the campus. He continued to show up, prompting his jailing for contempt of court."

I think that Kevin Lister is the teacher Senoufou was refering to. He has been sacked here in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: The war for history, science and fascism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 01:40 PM

Ah, I hadn't heard about Kevin Lister. From what I've managed to read (mostly in anti-woke papers) he behaved unsympathetically to this 17-year-old and pointed to her in class, a breach of the accepted protocol. Of course, there are some aspects that aren't clear: the attitude and reactions of the student and the student's treatment by other members of staff, for example. It seems that this teacher took a stand that was unjustified considering the vulnerable state of the student and he didn't back down. I don't know what happened at his disciplinary hearing either, of course. It seems to me that he had it coming. I do think that the age of the student involved in this story is significant. Seventeen is not fourteen.

Subject: RE: BS: The war for history, science and fascism
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 09:36 PM

I am proud to be the only student to be expelled for writing an essay on evolution. The most offensive sentence I was told was when I wrote "Man and other animals..."

Subject: RE: BS: The war for history, science and fascism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 05:36 AM

There will have been other reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: The war for history, science and fascism
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 06:33 AM

Yes, upstate NY had and still has a bible belt similar to Ohio.

Subject: RE: BS: The war for history, science and fascism
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 10:33 AM

Lemme guess, Donuel: they also banned Gerald Durrell's My Family and Other Animals.

Subject: RE: BS: The war for history, science and fascism
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 05:52 PM

Sheepishly... I get it but I never read it.