BS: Fractals

Subject: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 22 - 01:02 PM

Fractals are more than pretty little pictures. Imagine fractal cameras with infinite resolution. I can foresee a computer program that could explore infinite variations of new alloys. The commercial applications are profound. Fractal mathematics gives impetus to my notion of a collective consciousness we can share beyond the internet.
This theory of everything geometric is not a sudden epiphany since the ideas have been here and cooking for decades. But I do consider the fine constant ratio of 1 over 137 has something to do with fractals. Look it up if you are curious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCSSgxV9qNw
Early pre Cambrian multicellular life included 6 ft tall rangeomorphs that were entirely fractal. https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1408542111

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 22 - 01:11 PM

The theory of everything fractile and geometric:
I suspect this key to 'everything' was discovered in Westchester County NY at IBM in the 1970s although mathematicians did have early theoretical Julia sets that were never seen until computers could iterate the Mandelbrot sets millions of times. The shape of galaxies or the billions of galaxies that form the same pattern seen in the organization of our brain's neurons are all fractals. So is a tree, mountain, cloud, respiratory, circulatory, and nervous systems.
The simplicity and far-reaching truth of the equation E = MC squared, known by most people, is as basic as Z=Zsquared +1, creating fractals that scale forever or spiral down to zero. I believe it even shows how we get the mind from matter. EVERYTHING is fractal and is everywhere so it is obvious that since the big bang this repeating formula is found everywhere.
Amos thought fractals were fundamental and so did Arthur C Clark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB8m85p7GsU Even quantum mechanics demonstrates the repeating variability of possibilities. Right now this fractal chaos theory has not been turned into modern household appliances but is only in its intellectual phase. If we combine quantum computer AI with chaos theory all codebreaking will be possible and material sciences may be reinvented and advanced discoveries will be made.

Fractal/Chaos theory will illustrate what is deterministic in our lives and what is not. I suggest that other intelligent life forms will have similarities because of the nature of the ubiquitous fractal structures. The biggest differences will arise from different environments. DNA has fractal self-repeating qualities. It follows that our very thoughts are dictated by a fractal reality. Religions have imagined the Mandelbrot set in the illustration of Mandalas and the notion that "As it is above so is it below".

Carl Jung would be delighted and illuminated by the unifying fractal archetype and multi-hierarchical organization of the mind. Our mind is organized to sense fractals as beautiful. I walked into my living room with this fractal inspiration in mind and saw that every piece of art on the walls was glaringly fractal.

In conclusion, I believe that the self-repeating fractal theory will have future applications in genetiscience, psychology, history/political science, regenerative medicine, cosmology, and communication with alien species. I also predict there are types of people who will say that this concept is not a theory of everything but I contend that this theory is only in its infant intellectual stage. I will spare you the complexities involved in applying this theory within these various disciplines.
Chaos theory/fractals are the fingerprint of God from its big bang inception. There are many unknowns such as if there is a repetition beyond the Plank constant. Hawking said, " no, there is a limit".
??? maybe not. Perhaps there are those six extra dimensions in string theory so small we can not detect them.
How does consciousness arise fractally? From the evolution of simple complexity.
PS
Consciousness probably arises from a growing fractal but we can hardly measure consciousness as easily as measuring cognition, The human being is the only being "whose being is an issue for it. Alone among the animals, we carry the weight of the ability to think although all life has cognition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXngUyOS-XM

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Oct 22 - 01:29 PM

Several of the plants in my yard illustrate fractals really well. The Vitex tree has branches on branches on branches on branches. When it comes time to trim you work backward through the growth and can see the fractal.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Helen
Date: 09 Oct 22 - 02:40 PM

I used to have a programme on my PC to create fractals and I loved it even though I didn't know how it all worked mathematically. I just used to plug in different values at random. When my system was upgraded I couldn't use the programme any more.

Maggie, there is a Vitex purpurea tree in our yard. An amazing tree.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 09 Oct 22 - 04:43 PM

sometime in the 90s I bought a book on fractals

Me buying a maths book??? I bought it for the beautiful images

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 22 - 06:32 PM

The most unusual fractal I made was what looked like an elephant, trunk and all.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Joe_F
Date: 09 Oct 22 - 09:58 PM

Simple questions can have complicated answers.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Oct 22 - 06:17 AM

This discovery of a new geometry
fits the glove of quantum probability
and how simple small changes make the world unique.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Oct 22 - 06:39 AM

A film that would show how shells can transform into certain cosmic mega shapes and the shape of all flora and fauna all transform into each other would be enlightening in the same profound way as seeing the Earth from the moon did decades ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Oct 22 - 08:45 AM

Some evenings, when the old lady's out of town, I'll medicate (get high on MM) get out an electric guitar, stomp on some stompboxes, and play along with a fractal video. Great for messing with triads and arpeggios.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Oct 22 - 11:50 AM

Wow, halfway in, a beautiful swastica appears.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Oct 22 - 03:08 AM

Fractal cameras? Don't see them happening per se, maybe as marketing speak - the world is messy, that's why we have JPEG.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Helen
Date: 11 Oct 22 - 02:46 PM

gillymor, you are a worry!

On Sunday night I was watching the latest episode of an Oz music quiz show called Spicks and Specks and there was a genre-defying band called Perolas with a young woman playing a concert harp (badly miked, could hardly hear it). Adam Hills, the host of the show asked her why she chose to play harp and she said she was having a psychedelic experience and saw about 60 harps moving about in the air above her and decided she needed to play the harp.

Did you have any life-changing musical revelations, gillymor? Maybe you need some more musical instruments for your collection? (ducking for cover) :-D

It would be interesting to know if the young woman's harp vision was fractal, I suppose, just to stay on topic.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Oct 22 - 05:54 PM

Mr. Red, there is software that will take a blurry image and predict detail by fractal apps. Results look sharp.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Oct 22 - 06:08 AM

I don't recall, Helen, but I'm sure it's always profoundly beautiful. There is an amp modeler I wouldn't mind owning from... Fractal Audio Systems.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Helen
Date: 12 Oct 22 - 06:23 AM

I can recommend Harpsicle harps for a beginner's instrument, in case you are looking to add a harp to your extensive collection.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Oct 22 - 06:34 AM

Don't tempt me, we've been concentrating on O'Carolan lately.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Oct 22 - 07:11 AM

I took harp lessons in college and used to play 'you only live twice'.

Rub your closed eyes and you may see mandalas or merely fractals in color.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Oct 22 - 07:56 AM

Always good for a quick psychedelic experience for the freak on the go.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Helen
Date: 12 Oct 22 - 02:22 PM

O'Carolan! I can highly recommend the Caitríona Rowsome Book and 3 CD set The Complete Carolan Songs and Airs. It is all of the 256 O'Carolan tunes (including some which are presumed to be his but might not be e,g, The Two William Davises) the music notation, some information about each tune, and harp renditions on the 3 CD's, playing the tunes as shown in the originally collected music notation.

Musical fractals. I hear similarities in so many of the different tunes, but significant differences. Like different fractals created with a slightly different starting point. Or even within one tune: Mrs. Judge. It starts in 4/4 but changes to 6/8 at the end.

When you buy the Harpsicle, make sure you get the Sharpsicle type with levers so that you can change keys otherwise you'll regret it. LOL

Donuel, is there anything you haven't done? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Oct 22 - 06:34 PM

One semester of Harp in Music school does not a harpist make.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Helen
Date: 12 Oct 22 - 07:06 PM

LOL

40 years of dabbling without proper tuition doesn't do it either, I'm sorry to say. I'm more competent than I used to be but 40 more years might help.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Oct 22 - 08:24 PM

When 40 years of dabbling add up to 20,000 hours of practice one should earn an honorary Master in Eclectic Arts (MEA). A MEA is not a Culpa. Dabbling lends itself to cross-disciplinary rewards, while a focused Ph.D. may be quite limited in reality. Every situation is different but dabbling can be a very good thing... for example, those who can't or don't ...teach.

"Do or do not, there is no try"
Yoda wisdom

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Helen
Date: 12 Oct 22 - 10:18 PM

Yeah, thanks Donuel. I used to be a teacher too. :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Oct 22 - 03:47 AM

Er... excuse me.. I was a teacher for many years! And I'm afraid I 'dabbled' at university. I ended up with a Master of Arts degree having studied French, English Literature, Moral Philosophy, Social Anthropology, Linguistics, Phonetics, Psychology, Education, and folk music in the local Folk Club in Edinburgh.
I think it was mainly due to something I've always had : Curiosity!
It helped me such a lot when teaching, as I could offer my pupils a wide range of subjects (Middle School, 8yrs old until 12yrs old) and make them 'curious' too.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Oct 22 - 06:41 AM

I am illuminating dabbling and not casting aspersions on teaching which is required in every discipline. Getting out of the library and into the field is a gutsy thing to do. Teaching kids at puberty is pretty gutsy. :*/

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Oct 22 - 07:51 AM

Hee hee you're quite right Donuel! Teaching pupils of 12yrs old isn't easy to be sure. But I expect it's even harder nowadays, with the Internet and lack of discipline wreaking havoc with their behaviour.
I still think that curiosity about everything is a very handy attribute. I always 'need to know', and enjoy the 'smaller, more complex picture'.
I had a group of six Egyptian teachers consigned to my care (on a visit to experience UK teaching methods, and lodged at the University of East Anglia). Their methods were 'chalk-and-talk', and they were fascinated by my different ways. I'd plonk a large pile of books, magazines and photos on each group's table, and ask the children to find out several facts on a list by looking and researching, plus discussing among themselves. I hope this encouraged 'curiosity' for life in those pupils.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Oct 22 - 10:25 AM

“The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when one contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvellous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries to comprehend only a little of this mystery every day.”

quote: Albert Eienstein

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Helen
Date: 13 Oct 22 - 09:56 PM

Did someone say "fractals"?

microscopy-photography

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Oct 22 - 10:46 AM

fractal mind

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Oct 22 - 11:17 AM

Fractalizing psychedelics

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Oct 22 - 12:28 PM

Adobe Illustrator will let you keep zeroing in on patterns, the whole raster vs vector graphics game.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 14 Oct 22 - 12:59 PM

> Adobe Illustrator will let you keep zeroing in on patterns, the whole
> raster vs vector graphics game.

I'll try for the fourth time to enter this (Don't Ask) ....

I sincerely doubt that anybody's seen fractals in fine detail, as that would require infinite-precision arithmetic. Every time you go around the loop Z ← Z²+1, you need more significant binary digits to represent the result; it doesn't take many trips before you run out of bits in any finite-length representation. What you're seeing is a mash-up of fractals and floating-point rounding errors, which I'd say is (mathematically) chaotic.

All this doesn't make the pictures any less pretty, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Oct 22 - 02:01 PM

Anyone can magnify fractals to the size of the solar system and beyond while zeroing in on details. How much time you have is the only limiting factor.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Helen
Date: 14 Oct 22 - 07:11 PM

If you go to the page I linked to on 13 Oct 22 - 09:56 PM

scroll down to image # 17: The tail fin of a zebrafish larva

The pattern looks very similar to the intricate branch network on the Vitex tree that Maggie mentioned earlier.

Coincidentally, the image is similar to the Vitex Purpurea tree in my yard because the top of the leaves are a grey-green but the underside is a mauve colour.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Oct 22 - 09:04 PM

The first words of this thread: Fractals are more than pretty little pictures.

It is imo an entirely new geometry that reveals the natural world.
Other geometries are piecemeal in comparison;
Euclidean geometry. ...In several ancient cultures there developed a form of geometry suited to the relationships between lengths, areas, and volumes of physical objects. it did discover the golden mean and led to avogadro's number HINTING AT FRACTAL GEOMETRY
Analytic geometry. ...
Projective geometry. ...
Differential geometry. ...
Non-Euclidean geometries. ...
Topology.

BUT FRACTAL IS MORE THAN NON EUCLIDIAN GEOMETRY. It was discovered in 1976 and has not been expanded to its full potential imo.
I foresee a relationship to quantum field wave variations.
Arthur C Clark would repeat "fractals are the fingerprint of God".

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Oct 22 - 10:11 AM

Fractals: recurring occurrences at continually reducing size.
No matter how thinly you slice it . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Oct 22 - 01:20 PM

Depending upon where you are in the fractal you could grow or shrink.
I wonder if geologic events obey a fractal timeline. Random events do not seem as likely as a fractal inevitability.

Earthquakes & eruptions may want to be fractal but certain jams in faults lock up a shift in land masses or magma pools.
What seems like a coincidence could be fractal interactions that have a kind of pattern.
Who knows we might get lucky as global warming gets fatally severe, Yellowstone could erupt causing an Ice Age.

Imagination is fractal.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Oct 22 - 10:59 PM

Exploring 3D fractals I am seeing engineering/architectural load-bearing math that could be far more efficient.

In medicine, I am seeing nonfractals that stick out in a nonsimilarity which are cancer cells.

I am picturing the unseen quantum motions that may one day provide a unifying quality with megastructures that we are missing today.

I can envision the areas of connection between two cosmic branes. ( yes brane not brain) far beyond bilateral symmetry.

I am seeing an eventual ancient hindu swastica reappear in mandlelbrot fractals.

I hear resounding fractals in Irish music more than other forms.
I envision formulas for electronic music that obey fractal rules.

I see entire forests that obey the rules for branching in a single tree.

I see the fractal structure in mineralized opal patterns and crystals.

I see bridges of beautiful design

All one has to do is want to look and you will see these things too, which reminds me eye movement is fractal too.

Oh yess I also see pretty pictures

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Oct 22 - 11:08 PM

The first movie to use fractal landscape CGI was Wrath of Khan.
The Dr. Strange movies use fractal geometries heavily.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Oct 22 - 11:19 PM

btw its the blood vessels that feed cancer cells that do not obey fractal rules.

Energy absorbing foam may have crash protection properties better than metal just came to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 22 - 12:13 AM

Quantum variations seem to obey period doubling bifurcations and then flows into chaos but returns shortly therafter. In other words there is a pseudo randomness. The bifurcation diagram shows up everywhere like fractals, to be precise it is the small head of the mandelbrot which is its bifurcation portion. Beyond this the math becomes wildly complicatedd

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: rich-joy
Date: 28 Oct 22 - 09:31 PM

I'm surprised to not see a mention of the guy who has been called the father of fractals, Dan Winter!!

OK, his many websites are mostly beyond my comprehension (sadly, maths and physics were not my strong suits in life :( but he surely deserves a place in any discussion of Fractals!!!


"Dan Winter’s background spans a broad spectrum of disciplines, but he is probably best known for advancing the science of fractality.
He graduated with honors at the University of Detroit, then he pursued graduate studies in psychophysiology, and the origins of languages. He has worked as a Systems Analyst with IBM, an industrial metallurgist and a crystallographer. Dan also studied at the Gurdjieff School of sacred gymnastics, in Florence with Buckminster Fuller, and at Findhorn.   Dan draws on many sources, including science, mythology, popular culture, and even channeled information, looking for ideas about the deep connectedness of all things and how the profound nature of our oneness can be approached from architecture or art, math or biology, electronics/computers or myth.
You can find most of his diverse work spiraling out of his main hub at FractalField.com [ Other Guest Links: goldenmean.info   /   Theraphi.net   /   FractalU.com ] "
Taken from : https://www.thehighersidechats.com/dan-winter-the-physics-of-magic-language-plasma-beings/

Here's a reupload from an earlier time that I just came across : Fractals DNA, Golden Ratio, The Story of BLISS - Dan Winter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhx7_LWMMIw

"DAN WINTER is an Electrical engineer, systems analyst at IBM, with 30 years teaching physics of consciousness, sacred geometry and biofeedback. fractalfield.com   / peaceuniversity.net "

HEAPS more online from this very learned man.


Cheers, R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 22 - 10:20 PM

No doubt Winter worked with Mandlebrot at IBM.
There are many fathers of fractal investigation like Julia, Fatou, Hausdorff and even Issac Newton when he made a fractal set.

this all-important graph is not pretty but shows the many instances in nature where fractal geometry comes into play.

Gaining an understanding of chaos followed by the order is like the organic heartbeat of god.

PS I'm too young to have met Gurdjieff but I met his wife. I am all for the pioneers who know the importance of a multi-disciplinary approach.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 22 - 10:10 PM

The double bifurcation shows the gender in all things as well as its variation.

When computing power reaches the singularity as Kurtzwile predicts, I assume fractal math will be employed in unraveling many current mysteries.

“It is change, continuing change, inevitable change, that is the dominant factor in society today. No sensible decision can be made any longer without taking into account not only the world as it is, but the world as it will be...
This, in turn, means that our statesmen, our businessmen, our everyman must take on a science fictional way of thinking.”
? Isaac Asimov, Asimov on Science Fiction

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 30 Oct 22 - 01:41 PM

Asimov was correct, but sadly (as the headlines tell us) politicians have latched onto fantasy instead.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 11:53 AM

A new FOX tv series could get greenlighted, 'Fantasy Continent'.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 22 - 02:25 PM

The wise caveman was asked what holds the Earth up.
He said a giant turtle we can't see holds up the Earth.
What holds up the giant turtle?
Thats easy, its turtles all the way down.




We now think its fractals all the way down.
This could be as wrong/oversimplified as turtles.

Subject: RE: BS: Fractals
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 22 - 09:29 PM

On the nature of guesswork and supportive facts;

Mysteries share an absence of salient facts.
Some of our greatest discoveries have initially come from guesswork.
Guessing is the obvious path for reasoning to proceed in the absence of facts.
"What is missing, sometimes is your best clue." Sir A.C.D.
Many mysteries seem solved by spinning nothing but the missing facts.
You can even drown a mystery in facts and still be substantially wrong.
Therefore solving mysteries can share guesswork from 'nothing' as much as indisputable facts, if not more.
If this is true, truth is just a biased ego construct. Something like truth faces numerous obstacles like impermanence and entropy, so it surprises me that truth exists at all. Trust is only a belief in a truth construct.

So it seems reasonable that everything was created from nothing, as in the big bang theory, since nothing has the apparent overwhelming advantage of NOTHING compared to the relative diminutive something.
Besides, physicists say something is composed of mostly space.


I bet Bill has reason to see this as provocative phoney philosophy.