BS: Precognition

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 22 - 05:02 AM

Predictions for 2023

The rich will get richer
The poor will get poorer

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 22 - 09:01 PM

I doubt whether you passed your first grade tests (whatever they call them in your colony). You certainly don't know how to communicate, that's for sure. As for marrying for money, I'm a piss-poor socialist. Go to bed.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 22 - 08:40 PM

Steve should not lie about my bio. I do not have a Ph.D. but then again neither does Bill. Shall we discuss how Steve married for money?

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 22 - 08:39 PM

Of course! Just watch out for the police with sniffer dogs knocking on your door at two in the morning when they've heard that you're off on one of your frequent and insane fantasies we so often see here...

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 22 - 08:23 PM

PRE MARITAL SEX IS ILLEGAL IN Indonesia. Yes psilocybin is indeed profound, meaningful, and therapeutic for a lifetime.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 22 - 06:04 PM

He's supposed to be a scientist yet he can manage to glean stupidly unwarranted things from what people type on Mudcat. It's worth recalling that he has repeatedly sung the praises of the hallucinogenic substance present in magic mushrooms, illegal in many countries and to varying extents in the US. Not so clever, eh? Explains quite a lot about him really. Probably even about his alleged precognition experiences...

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 22 - 04:36 PM

What a wicked thing to wish on anyone!

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 22 - 03:49 PM

Keep thinking
Sober New year

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 22 - 03:00 PM

(I think I'll start a thread on a topic we haven't discussed for ages...lessee now...how about "precognition...")

Cheers, Dave, by the way!

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 22 - 11:34 AM

I've downsized, anything I played on the cello is now done on a large ukulele, except allegro.
Approaching something new with a blank slate has advantages and costs.

Anyway as I was saying about the unreal, Zuckerberg had this great idea about a META internet which is basically like playing Minecraft in 3D with avatars and accessories which aren't cheap. We all know how successful 3D TV is, we all have them don't we??? I think after billions of dollars Meta will be like 3D TV. 25 year olds and younger will love it. Also folks who like to be cut off from the rest of the world, just don't META google at the pool if you were supposed to watch them.

As a society of new monkeys wearing blinder goggles and earphones
who see no evil and hear no evil META should be great fun. Just think kids could digitally dissect real humans in 3D. Won't that accelerate education? Well you get the drift.

There also is new alternative truth finance and politics.
George Santos will sell embellished resume's.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Dec 22 - 11:28 AM

Dick, if you don't like the thread, don't read it or participate. It's that simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 22 - 11:22 AM

A prime example just happened :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 22 - 11:20 AM

I must add that I have often said that I think I may speak a different language to some others. It is not a UK/US thing as I found it more with a number of 'catters here in the UK than with those elsewhere. I do however seem to be very in tune with what others, including Steve, are saying. It is not always a political thing either. I can trade insults with many an opposing view on here and still feel that our similarities are greater than our differences. There are others though who I will simply never understand. My fault I'm sure but at nearly 70 I do not have the inclination to waste any time pondering the imponderable!

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Dec 22 - 11:09 AM

I see this thread as an example of the pointlessness of some internet discussions, entrenched positions, name calling etc.
I read this thread objectively and i do not reach the same conclusions as Dave The Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 22 - 11:02 AM

Donuel. Although I often do not understand your posts and have said as much, I do like the occasional whimsy and have viewed your contributions as mainly harmless. However, your accusations of cruelty and hate against Steve are far beyond the the pale. I have methodically gone through this thread and found no cruelty, hate or vindictiveness in any of his posts. Robust responses, yes, but certainly no malice anywhere but in posts by you and Helen. Maybe you need to work on your skills of understanding what is happening in the present before you try to predict the future. Just my opinion of course but I am pretty sure that anyone else reading the thread objectively will draw the same conclusion. You are of course welcome to ignore my views.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Dec 22 - 10:51 AM

Don.. I like folk music and play & sing... but I am not a *musician*. It is not require to aspire to greatness in order to enjoy. I hope you still play the cello.

BTW


"Tabula Rasa" is really just the idea of people coming into the world with a "blank skate"
google: Showing results for Tabula rasa
Search instead for Tabula raza


"tabula rasa, (Latin: “scraped tablet”—i.e., “clean slate”) in epistemology (theory of knowledge) and psychology, a supposed condition that empiricists have attributed to the human mind before ideas have been imprinted on it by the reaction of the senses to the external world of objects. {John Locke.}

My 101 psychology class was taught by a guy who treated it as gospel.
(Look up N.H. Pronko) He designed experiments to 'demonstrate' it.... which were roundly disparaged by most of his contemporaries.

He trained pigeons, had a student wear glasses that reversed L&R and up & down.. "See? The mind, properly trained, can be anything!"

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 22 - 08:03 AM

You really are a nasty piece of work, aren't you?

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 22 - 07:47 AM

For once Steve is ahead of the curve, obsessive cruelty, hate and war are back in fashion. As he says to Christmas carolers, "shut the F up"

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 07:37 PM

Donuel is confused, as ever. He is mixing up vindictiveness with calling out serial bullshit. The latest post is a classic and off-topic example.

Are we still talking about precognition or not?

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 07:32 PM

MaJoC the Filk -, When I took music theory it did not enhance the magic I sensed in music. It was better than nothing (Tabula Raza) in appreciating the magic in music.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 07:25 PM

Oh.. as to Einstein. He and Whitehead were contemporaries, so I have never dated both 'quotations'. They may have known of each other's formulation...or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 07:16 PM

The Whitehead quote was gleaned from one of his biographers who remembered the basics of it from conversations with a friend, and has been repeated in various forms. My Master's thesis was to be on Whitehead's metaphysics in "Process and Reality". In it he talks about the difficulty of reducing 'sensa' ("eternal objects") to simple components. Of course, his treatment of the concept(s) is anything but simple.
   In an essay by W. Mays, in a collection by Ivor Leclerc, Whitehead's notion is compared to Occam's Razor.... thus, the simple form of the quote I have always preferred was NOT a direct quote from a book. I can't right now locate the paperback where the friend commented on the idea, but it's the best I can do.
(Gee I hadn't looked into those books for years!)

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 07:15 PM

In support of Steve's pan condemnation of the unreal there is much to see in the tech and investment world which is downright UNREAL.
Finance and tech have ignored laws of reality and invest in products that are not real from cryptocurrency to META, surveillance capitalism, and self-driving safe cars.
The time of zero interest, low risk and no wars is over. A pandemic didn't help either. Tech stocks will continue to decline. Billionaires ran the economy and their rotten fruits will not be tolerated as people wise up to what is real or unreal. They already are dumping Tesla stock as they have gotten to know the Musk behind the Twitter curtain.

However, in no way do I excuse Steve's personal vindictiveness towards me or others.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 06:27 PM

Richard Dawkins wrote a great book, ostensibly aimed at younger readers, called The Magic Of Reality. You can call any surprising thing that you don't quite understand "magic." That's grand. But what misuse there is of such a useful word. Somewhere, somehow, there's an explanation for any phenomenon you encounter (I'm not talking about fake phenomena such as ghosts, fairies, God and precognition, by the way). It's down to us to dig and delve and try to find the explanation. We may or may not get there, but the journey is amazing. I think it's great to use the word for the amazing things we see all around us, though deep down we know that nothing is "magic" in the strict sense of that word. Nature is beautiful, diverse and jaw-dropping, but there's nothing in it that isn't vulnerable to explanation using the laws of nature. By all means dig away into mysticism in all its various and dubious guises, but there's more than enough for me in the real world, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 04:23 PM

I am surprised you guys didn't notice that I practically said "Don't Cross The Streams".

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 02:37 PM

I dearly hope that technology approaching magic is within our ability. It is not wise to bet against a new discovery, but I do bet against faster than light.

When imagining string theory with extra dimensions that are tiny I imagined one so big we can not see it. In this imagined dimension, there is no distance but there is the quality to be adjacent to every point in space. While this idea is useful for sci fi it has no evidence unless 'spooky action at a distance' has a different quantum explanation for entangled particles.

Things that don't fit conventional explanations are the very things that lead to new discoveries.
New discoveries can be accidental but they are not linear. They do not come in a logical order but bounce around almost randomly. I can give examples in the development of radio that led to semi-conductors that started as iron filings and led to crystals and finally transistors and chips.
BTW I agree with Dave, Bill and Mr. Brainiac as well.
Bill I do qualify my remarks but as in music I have the heart but not the technique to be profound. For example I recently abandoned my anti matter annihilation debris hypothesis for dark matter with good reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 01:08 PM

For completeness: Did that Whitehead quote come before or after Einstein's (oft-misunderstood) "Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler" .... ?

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 12:57 PM

> BTW. I do believe in magic.

So do I, Dave, as shorthand for "I don't understand this": I used to freely discuss the "Magic Event Horizon"[1] around the Physics Dept. Curiously enough, those who actually understand the physics of (eg) a beautiful sunset often find that makes it even more magical. That's humans for you.

[1] Pratchett, Stewart and Cohen: The Science of Discworld, notably Chapter 4. Don't skip the foreword.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 12:37 PM

Donuel... there was a movie... perhaps you've seen it...Interstellar which does an entirely too good of a job suggesting that time can be messed with and experienced differently by humans. It throws in the demise of Earth, wormholes, space travel, etc., in ways that seem vaguely possible-- until you look at the many convoluted premises it adopts in order to spin one hell of a yarn!
Various sci-fi authors have done the same in print for decades... James Blish, Poul Anderson, Issac Asimov and many others. So far, NO ONE has explained how the amounts of energy needed could be harnessed.
   You weave sentences that show you have read & thought... but none that clearly address the unresolved issues....and tossing stuff like that at 6:40 at us just hardens the opposition.
"To be as simple as I can - "TIME is more than a LINE.
(as such there is room for phenomena including the precog experience)"

"Strive for simplicity, but learn to mistrust it."
   Alfred North Whitehead

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 11:22 AM

BTW. I do believe in magic. The magic of a sunrise or a flower or a bird or a child. There is more such magic in the world than I can ever hope to see. Looking for more would be a waste.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 11:18 AM

The three things are only impossible to the physics you understand, Donuel. Paraphrasing Clarke. Technology (or physics) that we do not understand is indistinguishable from magic. Something unusual happens. Is it something beyond our current knowledge or magic? Apply Occam's razor.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 09:37 AM

If we could safely orbit a black hole we would travel to the future relative to Earth time. To travel to the past would require FTL speeds and that AIN'T gonna happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 09:26 AM

The theory has been tested billions of times each time a GPS signal is corrected by the differences in the clocks on Earth and the satellite clocks away from the mass of the Earth.

At any rate if one adopts a field theory of time, the differences in time are usually small. Now for a 'what if', suppose time can get twisted like an electrodynamic field that crosses itself. For a brief moment, larger time discrepancies can occur. It won't be enough to talk to Al but it may be enough for consciousness to get a glimpse. My bets are on predictive talents to be mostly dependent on other factors like deduction. But once in a blue moon...

If I had not experienced 3 impossible things according to physics I probably would have not looked deeper into conventional thinking and looked for other explanations over the last 40 years.

As for past present and future being an illusion it doesn't matter. The distance and speeds required to bring events 200 years out of simultaneous order are too great for us to achieve.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 08:32 AM

Einstein's theory of relativity is most often misquoted by those who willfully or otherwise will not look beyond the 'mysterious' concept of time passing differently in different circumstances. There is nothing mysterious about it. It is pure physics and while I do not claim to understand the full implications, I do understand that Einstein did not reject the existence of time. Instead, he rejected the distinction between past, present, and future. As I said earlier, the measurement of time is a man made construct. An object only exists in the past, present or future relative to where you are observing it. His work on relativity made it clear that physics behaves identically despite the abstract ordering of those events. A single event occurring simultaneously in the past, present and future is contradictory so maybe only one of those coordinates is reality. In any case, there is no test for such an event and something for which there is no test and makes zero difference is, most likely, an illusion.

But if you don't believe me, ask Albert himself. After all, your take on his theory means that he is still here!

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 07:48 AM

You still don't get it. Einstein shocked the world by revealing that time can be different for different observers. You have never-attempted to understand the secret of time. As we all know, there is an intimate relationship between time and the entropic age of objects. But what is this relationship?

Just as length, width and height are the measurements of physical extensions of objects (their three spatial dimensions); time too, takes up space. In this sense, time seems to be the fourth dimension of objects.
The so called passage of time and the arrow of time previously proposed has some leeway and is not just a one dimensional line. The meaning of the much debated conventional concept of time is a myth imo. Time is dimensional with more to it than a cone or a point. (as we all know, the theory of relativity allows it), We, will be witnessing the same future. The only difference will be - your clock will not agree with others.
I have spent more time than most folks, thinking deeply about time.

To be as simple as I can - "TIME is more than a LINE.
(as such there is room for phenomena including the precog experience)

PS Steve's denigration of my intellect is a lie but you are free to believe as you will.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 06:09 AM

"Ah! I have just experienced an epiphany!"

But...but...that isn't until 6 Jan...Have you solved the precognition conundrum by turning into a time traveller? And when we reach Jan 6 will you have a déjà vu? Are déjà vus (or is it déjàs vu...) able to be predicted in a precognitive way? God, I'm confused...

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 05:14 AM

Lol :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 04:40 AM

"I never say anything online that I would not say to anyone's face."\

Totally off topic- but I've been looking for a place to post this: I have come up with a game changer.

When someone challenges you with "Are you calling me a liar??"

Just say, "Not to your face!"

It baffles them.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Dec 22 - 03:39 AM

In answer to Rain Dog's question of 28 Dec 22 - 04:45 PM. I never say anything online that I would not say to anyone's face. Of course it is difficult to tell who you are referring to by the phrase "usual jokers". It would be better if you were more specific or are you so vague in real life too? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Dec 22 - 11:40 PM

Ah! I have just experienced an epiphany!

Those here who are not only certain that there are people who sometimes/often/regularly precog (sic) events and who suspect they are among those people, would please post an upcoming event or happenstance with verifiable constructs, such as dates and participants, sometime in the fairly near future. If the event comes true we will all be convinced - and the case will be closed. Might I add that I personally will be mightily impressed and properly apologetic.

Mind you, I need events, dates and participants. Otherwise we could end up with merely logical conclusions. And there are plenty of those.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Dec 22 - 08:32 PM

The 0640 post is just about the most arrogant and self-regarding one I've seen here in a long time. Here we have a chap who has demonstrated time and time again that he doesn't only not understand science but who chooses to wrap his ignorance in deliberately obscure and often pseudo-mystical language. That would be fine by me, except that he patronisingly includes far better people than him in his oh-so-delicate excoriations...

Gosh, Bill, on your prompt I revisited that creationism thread. Blimey, I'm embarrassed... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Dec 22 - 07:18 PM

Cartoon: An 800 lbs. couple are on the front porch. "You know honey sometimes I wish KFC hadn't moved in next door".

The only time old guys don't feel like they have to pee is when they are peeing.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Dec 22 - 06:57 PM

Don.. are you channeling Emily Dickenson and e.e.cummings and the parables of Nostradamus as you create wordplay about us?
I have no idea what the process of butt dialing myself involves or I'd be right there in my (your? our?) near past.... except I don't know what the 'it' is I could then answer.
   I really miss your cartoons about the world...

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Dec 22 - 06:40 PM

Bill could butt dial himself and answer it in the near past.
Steve is as pale as an uncolored coloring book that he thought he colored but never had the time.
Backwoodsman is running out of wood and time to split this winter.
Robo is matic no more.
http://mudcat.org/blickifier.cfm violates causation.
Time is one of the most powerful influences to Sandman's thoughts, feelings, and actions, yet he is usually totally unaware of the effect of time out.
Max has specific attitudes toward time—or time perspective associated with numerous benefits, yet when off line each is associated with even greater costs.
Individual attitudes toward time are learned through Donuel's personal experience, yet collectively attitudes toward time influence national destinies.
Dave can stand for hours or days in his gnome life.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Dec 22 - 05:28 PM

Me? I will explain & debate the same things with friends in person.. when they are willing. I try to follow the rule of "never argue with the obviously ignorant... they will wear you down with sheer loads of nonsense"

   I have not always followed that rule on Mudcat, because I often feel that my responses are simply leaving alternate theories that *I* am aware of to counter the logical flaws left by others..(such as the aforementioned "Young Earth Creationism" thread).
Note, I differentiate between the ignorant and the stupid. Most of those I debate here are NOT stupid. That would be useless.

   If I could go back in time, realizing what I do now, I'd love to get 'credentials' and write a book and teach a philosophy course on "How to think".

"Ve grow too soon old, and too late schmart."

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Dec 22 - 04:57 PM

Of course not! But my excuse is that I have only Mudcat. I used to do Chiff and I still, rarely, do TheSession, and I play Irish on the harmonica (not bragging, but you've heard worse...). But no Facebook, no Instagram, no TikTok, never. I have a very limited transaction with online socialising. For me, it's just Mudcat. And it's great for an hour or so a day for this 'ere retired old gentleman. I don't believe I'm a lot different in real life but Mrs Steve won't let me rattle on about my bees-in-bonnets anywhere near as much as I do here. And I have no secrets. You all know my real name and that I live near Bude, a small town in north Cornwall. You could track me down in minutes if you wanted to. In fact, I'll put t'kettle on if I know you're around.

Anyway, why do you ask?

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Rain Dog
Date: 28 Dec 22 - 04:45 PM

I have asked this question of the usual jokers before, do you act in the same way in real life as you do online? By which I mean do you talk in the same way to people face to face as you do when online?

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Dec 22 - 03:57 PM

I remember Dan Krackerman, from Dutch group Mucus, saying he felt like a clog in something turning. But that was after wearing solar flares.

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Dec 22 - 03:53 PM

I dreamed I was going to do a country dance with a beautiful Dutch girl, and it came true! Preclognition!

Subject: RE: BS: Precognition
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Dec 22 - 03:33 PM

You're getting the knack of it Dick! Must be precognition:-D