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Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2

Related thread:
Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) (640)


Stilly River Sage 20 May 24 - 04:44 PM
Sandra in Sydney 15 May 24 - 04:17 AM
Sandra in Sydney 15 May 24 - 03:38 AM
Helen 03 May 24 - 07:39 PM
Sandra in Sydney 29 Apr 24 - 07:23 PM
Sandra in Sydney 26 Apr 24 - 10:58 PM
Stilly River Sage 14 Apr 24 - 10:26 AM
Bill D 11 Apr 24 - 02:50 PM
Sandra in Sydney 16 Mar 24 - 03:54 AM
Donuel 10 Mar 24 - 09:43 PM
Sandra in Sydney 08 Mar 24 - 11:42 PM
Sandra in Sydney 08 Mar 24 - 09:22 PM
Sandra in Sydney 01 Mar 24 - 04:46 PM
Donuel 01 Mar 24 - 07:49 AM
Sandra in Sydney 29 Feb 24 - 04:12 PM
Sandra in Sydney 25 Feb 24 - 05:00 AM
Stilly River Sage 24 Feb 24 - 08:37 PM
Sandra in Sydney 24 Feb 24 - 06:26 PM
Sandra in Sydney 20 Feb 24 - 04:20 PM
Donuel 20 Feb 24 - 02:41 PM
Stilly River Sage 19 Feb 24 - 12:43 PM
Sandra in Sydney 15 Feb 24 - 08:07 AM
Donuel 13 Feb 24 - 07:01 AM
Sandra in Sydney 12 Feb 24 - 04:41 PM
Sandra in Sydney 07 Feb 24 - 05:08 PM
Thompson 03 Feb 24 - 03:48 AM
Sandra in Sydney 02 Feb 24 - 03:08 AM
Stilly River Sage 31 Jan 24 - 09:46 PM
Helen 31 Jan 24 - 05:26 PM
Helen 31 Jan 24 - 02:01 PM
Donuel 31 Jan 24 - 10:56 AM
Helen 31 Jan 24 - 04:49 AM
MaJoC the Filk 27 Jan 24 - 07:10 AM
Sandra in Sydney 26 Jan 24 - 07:08 PM
Stilly River Sage 26 Jan 24 - 02:57 PM
Stilly River Sage 25 Jan 24 - 12:58 PM
Stilly River Sage 23 Jan 24 - 11:49 AM
Stilly River Sage 23 Jan 24 - 11:42 AM
Sandra in Sydney 22 Jan 24 - 09:03 PM
Bill D 21 Jan 24 - 08:18 AM
Stilly River Sage 19 Jan 24 - 02:32 PM
Donuel 16 Jan 24 - 07:18 PM
Donuel 16 Jan 24 - 07:06 PM
Stilly River Sage 16 Jan 24 - 03:49 PM
Bill D 16 Jan 24 - 10:07 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 24 - 07:50 AM
Sandra in Sydney 09 Jan 24 - 07:26 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 24 - 06:52 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 24 - 06:35 AM
Donuel 08 Jan 24 - 07:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 May 24 - 04:44 PM

Ancient Chesapeake site challenges timeline of humans in the Americas
An island eroding into the bay offers tantalizing clues about when and how humans first made their way into North America.

People should be able to read this, I used one of my gift articles for the link. Here's a bit of it:
Lowery’s site and others like it could revise the story again, pushing back the timeline earlier than most experts thought possible. In total, Lowery and a motley crew of collaborators have discovered 286 artifacts from the site on the island’s southwestern edge. The oldest, they reported, was embedded with charcoal dated to more than 22,000 years ago, a time when much of the continent would have been covered in ice sheets.

If Lowery is right, Parsons Island could rewrite American prehistory, opening up a host of new puzzles: How did those people get here? How many waves of early migration were there? And are these mysterious people the ancestors of Native Americans?

New claims of sites dated this far back face a wall of skepticism, rooted in legitimate scientific scrutiny and in the threat they pose to long-entrenched views.

To complicate matters, Lowery — who has been affiliated with the Smithsonian but does much of his work independently — presented the results of his study of Parsons Island in a 260-page manuscript posted online rather than in a traditional peer-reviewed journal.

The peer-review process is designed to help validate scientific claims, but Lowery argues that in archaeology it often leads to a circle-the-wagons mentality, allowing scientists to wave away evidence that doesn’t support the dominant paradigm. He says he isn’t seeking formal publishing routes because “life’s too short,” comparing this aspect of academic science to “the dumbest game I’ve ever played.”

If you're interesting this links to his ms.


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 15 May 24 - 04:17 AM

Famed 5,300-Year-Old Alps Iceman Was a Balding Middle-Aged Man With Dark Skin and Eyes


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 15 May 24 - 03:38 AM

an unanswerable question, Helen

A Regal Hue: The Discovery of Tyrian Purple in Roman Carlisle In an extraordinary archaeological find at Carlisle, UK, researchers have unearthed what appears to be Tyrian Purple, a rare and historically significant pigment once reserved for the highest echelons of Roman society. The discovery was made within the drainage system of a 3rd century Roman bathhouse at the Carlisle Cricket Club grounds, part of an extensive excavation dubbed the "Uncovering Roman Carlisle" project.


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Helen
Date: 03 May 24 - 07:39 PM

Two articles about facial reconstruction based on ancient skulls of two women:

Archaeologists reveal reconstructed face of 75,000yo Neanderthal woman

"The Neanderthal woman's skull was discovered in 2018 in a cave in the Zagros Mountains of northern Iraq."


This Australian school owns a 2,000-year-old human head. Here's what she once looked like

"By Nick Baker and Zoe Ferguson for Stuff the British Stole

"A NSW school has mummified human remains in its library. After years of mystery, a mix of science and art has shed more light on who this person was."

[My question is: why does a school have the 2000 year old human head in their collection??]


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 29 Apr 24 - 07:23 PM

Keen explorer discovers many of Perth's shipwrecks aren't where the maps say they are

Australia's earliest European contacts happened on the West Australian coastline, some ships were wrecked, & over the years more were wrecked! Shipwrecks don't really move tho debris can, & with the latest technology sites are getting more precise locations.


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 26 Apr 24 - 10:58 PM

Plato’s Final Resting Place in Athens Revealed! The revolutionary scanning and study of the Herculaneum papyri has revealed remarkable new details about the philosopher Plato, including the precise location of his burial. This significant archaeological achievement comes from a project deciphering ancient, carbonized papyri damaged by the Vesuvius eruption in 79 AD.

According to a press release by, Consiglio Nazionale delle Ricerche, the "Greek Schools" project, led by Graziano Ranocchia from the University of Pisa, has made extraordinary progress in restoring and interpreting the section of papyrus known as, History of the Academy by Philodemus of Gadara ...   read on!


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Apr 24 - 10:26 AM

I heard something about the floor in that room - it's all white with the black walls. I don't remember if they said it a white mosaic or is it a form of concrete or laid stone?
“You’re walking into a room with an all-white floor, all-black walls. I mean, that’s something that would be impressive today and it definitely was back then,” she said.

The discovery underlines just how much of Pompeii remains buried: More than a third of Pompeii is untouched and unexplored by archaeologists.


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Apr 24 - 02:50 PM

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/roman-paintings-uncovered-pompeii-2000-years-rcna147350


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 16 Mar 24 - 03:54 AM

Captain Matthew Flinders Archaeologists working on the HS2 project in Euston have discovered the remains of Captain Matthew Flinders. The Royal Navy explorer led the first circumnavigation of Australia and is credited with giving the country its name.
HS2 archaeologists were able to identify Captain Matthew Flinders’s remains by the lead depositum plate (breast plate) placed on top of his coffin. The discovery of his burial site among 40,000 other human remains, in Euston’s St James’s burial ground, so early on in the archaeological dig has thrilled archaeologists ...

His final resting place will be in at the Church of St Mary and the Holy Rood in Donington, near Spalding, where he was baptised, and where many members of his family are buried.

There is currently no set date for when his body will be reburied at the church. However, the diocese of Lincoln has given planning consent to the reburial and, now HS2 have announced the news, the Parochial Church Council is expecting to work speedily to submit the details of a suitable memorial.

A specialist team from HS2 will transfer the remains to the Diocese of Lincoln for safekeeping until further burial arrangements can be made. Details of which will be announced at a later stage by the diocese. (article dated 5th October 2023)

An article behind a paywall in today's Saturday Sydney Morning Herald https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/after-250-years-matthew-flinders-goes-on-his-epic-final-journey-20240314-p5fcf8.html says the funeral is going to be very soon


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Mar 24 - 09:43 PM

I have been looking at the Mayan language and see how the mind set of the Mayan is very different than ours. Our Western world is dualistic while the Mayans were not. For example, the Mayans saw no difference between natural and cultural. Special words signified 'neither this or that' and represented something in between like the ocean between lands. btw the way the word for water was ha aha aha. I thought it sounded funny and flowing.

The point is that the mind set and thoughts of the ancients can be as curious and phenomenal as what they left behind in architecture, art, costumes, weapons and kitchens.

Sandra try researching 'Sage Journals' about archaeology for some different perspectives.


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 08 Mar 24 - 11:42 PM

but wait, there's more!

Magnet Fisher Drags 1,200-Year-Old Viking Sword from English River & a few more articles on Viking-era discoveries below it, like this one


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 08 Mar 24 - 09:22 PM

World’s Oldest Fermented Bread, Dated to 6,600 BC, Found at Çatalhöyük


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 01 Mar 24 - 04:46 PM

217-year-old sweater — still ‘pristine’ — found in unopened package, UK archive says
Then check out the links below the article - Uncover more archaeological finds - it's a good rabbit hole!!


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Mar 24 - 07:49 AM

The UK has so many Roman Amphitheaters you might think some could be repurposed for folk song gatherings. https://www.heritagedaily.com/2016/11/8-roman-ampitheatres-in-britain/101973


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 29 Feb 24 - 04:12 PM

Statue of Atlas Reconstructed at Greek Temple of Zeus in Agrigento, Italy

A Roman Wooden Cellar Unearthed in Frankfurt's Nida


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 25 Feb 24 - 05:00 AM

Wreck of SS Nemesis discovered off Wollongong coast, 120 years after it disappeared


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 08:37 PM

Kailash looks like a huge version of Petra, Jordan.


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 06:26 PM

Colombia to start recovering bounty from wreck of 18th-century San Jose galleon


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 20 Feb 24 - 04:20 PM

wow!


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Feb 24 - 02:41 PM

https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/kailash-temple


This is considered to be the largest megalithic structure on Earth.
It was carved out of a mountain instead of moving stones.


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Feb 24 - 12:43 PM

That is interesting -
In a groundbreaking revelation, researchers have unveiled the discovery of a vast submerged land to the north of contemporary Australia, that held up to 500,000 people. Submerged due to rising sea levels at the conclusion of the last glacial period, the researchers propose that echoes of this forgotten land resonate today within indigenous mythology.

The old question about Atlantis - real or mythical - comes up again and again in many places.

I recently started watching an old National Geographic series called Drain the Oceans that gives a look at things as they might appear were the water removed. Simple concept, I'm sure there is a lot of LIDAR and such involved.


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 08:07 AM

Submerged Australian Land Was Spoken of in Indigenous Myths


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 24 - 07:01 AM

WOW


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 12 Feb 24 - 04:41 PM

Aylesbury Roman egg with contents a 'world first', say scientists The only intact chicken's egg found from Roman Britain is now thought to be the only one of its type in the world - after scientists found it still had liquid inside.

The egg, which is about 1,700 years old, was found during a dig in Aylesbury in Buckinghamshire.

Researchers said at the time it was a "genuinely unique discovery".

However, they admitted they were "blown away" recently to find it still contained the yolk and egg white.

A micro CT scan - that produces 3D images - revealed the contents of the egg, complete with the air sac.

... It was the only egg to survive intact, with others breaking during the excavation, releasing a "potent stench"... (read on)


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 07 Feb 24 - 05:08 PM

Peatland ‘time capsule’ reveals prehistoric woodland habitat and insects which still exist today


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Thompson
Date: 03 Feb 24 - 03:48 AM

"Culture is a powerful social tool that can create a sense of common purpose, help us accomplish great projects, or survive in the toughest conditions. It is also a concept that can easily move us to hate and attack those we perceive as being different from us," writes Ariel David in the Israeli publication Haaretz, which has an excellent archaeological section.
He's writing about the Gravettians, who lived all across Europe from Iberia to Russia, 34,000 to 24,000 years ago.
These are the people who made the fantastic cave paintings and the clinically obese Venus statuettes.
You'd think they were the same gang. But a new study of the ornaments they made, by Jack Baker, Solange Rigaud, Daniel Pereira, Lloyd A Courtenay and Francesco d’Errico, published in Nature Human Behaviour, has found that they were a group of different peoples.
On studying their ornaments, it turns out that - like Irish emigrants in America or Polish emigrants in Israel - the people making these ornaments often had greater cultural affinities with faraway places than with the place they were living in.
"For example, ornamental assemblages found in southwestern France, in the Pyrenees, are statistically much closer to those from Belgium than to those much closer in nearby northeastern Spain, Baker and colleagues say.
"So geographical distance was not necessarily the main factor in determining how the Gravettians decorated themselves and who they identified as being part of their group, the researchers infer.
"'What we think is at work here is just this feeling of belonging to a culture,' Baker says. 'It's saying: I dress in this way, and regardless of whether my people move or migrate to another place we are going to keep that style.'"
Really interesting piece. One of the illustrations, however, which to me looks like a man or woman wearing corn rows, "the Lady of Brassempouy" has it reconstructed as a woman wearing a decorative frame over her hair. Well, we shall see what we shall see…


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 02 Feb 24 - 03:08 AM

Human footprints dating back 90,000 years found on Moroccan beach ... They say they're the oldest footprints attributed to Homo sapiens to have been discovered in the northern Africa and the southern Mediterranean region (read on)

Alexander the Great’s Family Identities Confirmed at Vergina Tumulus Where is Alexander the Great buried? This mystery, that has baffled historians and devotees of the legendary conqueror, might be closer to an answer, as a group of archaeologists found the occupants of three tombs, situated within the Great Tumulus of Vergina in northern Greece. A study has now conclusively identified those interred as members of the family of Alexander the Great including his father, stepmother, half-siblings, and son. Alongside skeletal remains, a wealth of artifacts and items associated with Alexander himself, including armor and other personal belongings, were also found! (read on)


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Jan 24 - 09:46 PM

Tonight on PBS the program NOVA is looking at the fossil remains in Egypt of the ancestors of whales. Years ago I read about whale fossils found in Egypt, and they suggested that cows might be a progenitor. Now it seems that the hippopotamus is closer to whales.

It is fascinating to consider that land mammals moved back into the water (after leaving the water millions of years before). If you pull up Google Earth and search on "Valley of the Whales, Egypt" you'll land on Wadi Hitan National Park. Some of the 360o photos show fossil whales in situ. Walking whales may have contributed to the gods in Egypt - imagining what skeletons might be would be something humans thousands of years ago thought about. (Consider how dinosaur fossils might have contributed to the idea of dragons.) When Whales Could Walk (again, as mentioned in another thread, you might need a VPN set on a US IP address to watch this).

"All modern whales have a pelvis, and some have tiny leg bones, too." Swimming mammals wouldn't need these, but they are there due to the ancestry. It is fascinating.

After it was an ocean, the area cooled and dried and forests grew, with trees up to 150'. The animals of the region left or failed. If they survived, they learned to live in colder water.

I'll be poking around Google Earth more to see if I can find some of the sites mentioned in the program. It's difficult to save coordinates in Google Earth, but they will come up in Google maps. Go figure.


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Helen
Date: 31 Jan 24 - 05:26 PM

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but dyeing wool using natural or plant dyes is kind of archaeological because it has been done for centuries, e.g. info on this site:

dyes from plants

Thinking about the yellow and burnt orange/brown colours in that Tartan piece found in a bog:

Some of my best results came from coreopsis, which is a roadside weed here in Oz but I just discovered this week while watching a UK TV show called Love Your Garden that it grows in the UK. I suspect it may have been brought out here to plant in gardens and then it escaped into the wild. I also managed to get a beautiful dark burnt orange type of red from it.

Another excellent and reliable source for yellow and burnt orange/brown dyes is brown onion skins. The trick is that if you want yellow you put the untreated homespun wool yarn in the pot early in the cooking time, but the longer you boil the onion skins before putting the wool in, the more burnt orange/brown it gets.

I had a lot of fun experimenting, back in my younger days.


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Helen
Date: 31 Jan 24 - 02:01 PM

From: Sandra in Sydney, on 22 Jan 24 - 09:03 you mentioned the Tartan found in a bog/

Interesting! I wish the article had been specific about all the dyes used to create the colours because a few decades back I used to create natural dyes, mostly from plants, to dye wool.

In the article they say:

"The original tartan was analysed to figure out what dyes were used to make it the colour it was, and how many woollen threads were used to make up the pattern.

"They discovered that green, yellow and red dyes were used, which would have come from woad or indigo to create the green, along with other natural dyes.

.......

"Tartan can be used to make kilts, or scarves, and they come in many different colours and designs, to represent different clans, or families.

"Originally, clans people used local plants, mosses and berries to dye the wool."


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jan 24 - 10:56 AM

Champagne corks are more elastic than corks for wine but the glass is stronger and is not sealed with wax. Only wire is used to secure corks to contain 4 bars of pressure. At the Titanic depth external pressure wins. So Maloc's salty champagne sounds plausible.


Kudos for an ocean water landing by Amelia without having a breakup.
She would not have desired to go down with the plane so DNA is probably lost. Plane confirmation is all they need now.


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Helen
Date: 31 Jan 24 - 04:49 AM

Amelia Earhart's long-lost plane may have been found, says underwater exploration company Deep Sea Vision

"In short: A deep sea exploration company has released sonar images of what it says is likely the wreckage of Amelia Earhart's plane.

"The disappearance of the American pilot during a round-the-world flight in 1937 is one of the most enduring mysteries in aviation history.

"What's next? The team that made the discovery is planning to take more images to confirm it's her long-lost Lockheed 10-E Electra plane."


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 27 Jan 24 - 07:10 AM

Re Champagne bottles at Titanic depths: They're built strong on purpose to contain the pressure from the contents. Given that it's more difficult to make something which can withstand pressure from inside than from outside, it doesn't surprise me that the bottles have survived intact.

What I'd like to know is whether any seawater has made it past the cork into the wine, which (come to think) would reduce the pressure differential; this would help preserve the bottle, if not the contents. And No, I do not volunteer as a taste-tester.


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 26 Jan 24 - 07:08 PM

I'm involved in a project making wallhangings for the Museum of Australian Democracy & City of Sydney Council to commemorate the South Sea Islanders brought to Australia as slaves (oops, fancy typing that, they really signed work agreements!!) in the 19 & early 20th century.

Info on the project here https://www.instagram.com/helenfraser_artist/ under Yumi Olgeta (= 'you & me together' in Bislama language) - scroll down to pic of 2 metre long wallhanging on the floor. I'm not on instagram so can't look at the pics.

I originally saw a workshop on Council's What's site on so went along & started learning about the Blackbirding days & started sewing islander motifs. Aunties from the community talked about their ancestors & their own ives - 12 & 14 year old boy & girl taken from 2 islands certainly did not sign anything. The first Blackbirder, Ben Boyd had a tartan & we were given printed reproduction pieces of this pattern to use!

turning this into a music thread, here's one of Phil d'Conch's contributions - Note: Fijian shanghai.
“...Other plans have also been adopted. One of the best known is perhaps that of counterfeiting a missionary ship. A white macintosh coat has done duty for a surplice, the ship's log-book for a Prayer Book; and as no one could sing a hymn, the sailors joined in chanting that impressive ditty, 'Give me some time to blow the man down.' The natives were then invited below to prayers, and a barrel of biscuit left open as if by accident. Many went down to the hold, but on attempting to return found the hatches had closed over them….”
[Two Years in Fiji, by Litton Forbes. London, Longmans,1875]


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jan 24 - 02:57 PM

Sandra, that revived/recreated tartan is beautiful.
The first mention of tartan was in 1538, but now there are thought to be around 7,000 unique tartans in the world - even former US President Obama and Hello Kitty have their own tartan!

The first mention - I wonder what kind of document houses that mention? And I wonder if there are paintings of tartans that far back?


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jan 24 - 12:58 PM

Why Did Champagne Bottles On The Titanic Not Implode?
Titan imploded, so why not champagne bottles at lower depths?
When the doomed submersible the Titan imploded as the crew attempted to explore the wreck of the Titanic in June 2023, people began asking a lot of questions about implosions, including why the Titanic itself didn't implode despite being at a lower depth.

One such question, asked a number of times over the last year, is why champagne bottles found on the Titanic did not implode. Instead, there are bottles that appear to be largely intact.



It is possible to find the location on Google Earth, but I can't get it to give me a link to the coordinates. Google Maps will give one.


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jan 24 - 11:49 AM

This paper was also referred to in the one above about Chiquihuite Cave in Mexico's Zacatecas state:
Earliest Human Presence in North America Dated to the Last Glacial Maximum: New Radiocarbon Dates from Bluefish Caves, Canada

The Mexican site seems to be on a par with a Canadian site age-wise. From the Bluefish paper:
Introduction
Beringia, a vast region stretching from the Lena River in Siberia to the Mackenzie River in the Yukon Territory [1, 2], is thought to have played a pivotal role in the initial dispersal of human populations from Asia to North America. The exact timing of the initial dispersal remains uncertain, however. Recent genetic and palaeogenetic analyses [3–10], as well as dental morphological evidence [11], confirm that human populations migrating into North America originated in Siberia. They also suggest that dispersing groups reached Beringia during the LGM (dated to ca. 18,000–24,000 cal BP) where they were genetically isolated for up to 8,000 years before moving south of the ice-sheets into North America [3–11]. Unfortunately, archaeological support for the standstill hypothesis is scarce [12]. Recent archaeological discoveries prove that humans were able to adapt to high-latitude, Arctic environments by at least 45,000 cal BP [13]. The Yana River sites, in Siberia, demonstrate that modern human populations had reached Western Beringia by 32,000 cal BP [14, 15], i.e., well before the LGM. Human activity is not recorded again in Western Beringia until the post-LGM period, however, with occupations of two open-air sites, Berelekh and Ushki, dated to ca. 14–13,000 cal BP [16–18]. In Eastern Beringia, the oldest currently accepted human occupations occur in the Tanana valley (interior Alaska) at Swan Point, Broken Mammoth and Mead [19–21], and at the Little John site, located 2 km east of the international border in the Yukon Territory [22]; these sites are no older than ca. 14,000 cal BP, however [19–22]. The only potential candidate for an earlier, LGM occupation of Beringia is the controversial Bluefish Caves site.

Excavated from 1977 to 1987 under the direction of Jacques Cinq-Mars (Archaeological Survey of Canada), the Bluefish Caves site (northern Yukon Territory, 67°09’N 140°45’W) occupies a unique place in Eastern Beringian prehistory. The site is comprised of three small karstic cavities, not exceeding 30 m3 in volume, located in the Keele range about 54 kilometres southwest of Old Crow village. The caves are situated at the base of a limestone ridge about 250 meters above the right bank of the Bluefish River [23–27]. All three cavities contain a loess layer (Unit B) up to one meter thick, deposited on bedrock (Unit A) and overlain by a humus layer mixed with cryoclastic debris (Unit C) and finally, a modern humus layer (Unit D) [25, 27]. The loess deposit (Unit B) can be differentiated into three sub-layers based on granulometric and sedimentological examinations and was excavated in 5 cm spits [23]. Small artefact series were excavated from the loess in Cave I (MgVo-1) and Cave II (MgVo-2) and rich faunal assemblages were recovered from all three caves [23–27]. The lithic assemblages (which number about one hundred specimens) include microblades, microblade cores, burins and burin spalls as well as small flakes and other lithic debris [23–26]. Most of the artefacts were recovered from the loess of Cave II at a depth comprised between about 30 to 155 cm. The deepest diagnostic pieces–a microblade core (B3.3.17), a burin (B3.6.1) and a core tablet (B4.16.4) found inside Cave II, as well as a microblade (E3.3.2) found near the cave entrance–derive from the basal loess at a depth of about 110 to 154 cm below datum, according to the CMH archives [28]. While the artefacts cannot be dated with precision [24, 25, 29], they are typologically similar to the Dyuktai culture which appears in Eastern Siberia about 16–15,000 cal BP, or possibly earlier, ca. 22–20,000 cal BP [30]. There are no reported hearth features [24]. Palaeoenvironmental evidence, including evidence of herbaceous tundra vegetation [31, 32] and vertebrate fauna typical of Pleistocene deposits found elsewhere in Eastern Beringia [27, 33, 34], is consistent with previously obtained radiocarbon dates which suggest that the loess layer was deposited between 10,000 and 25,000 14C BP (radiocarbon years Before Present), i.e., between 11,000 and 30,000 cal BP [23–27, 35] (Table 1).

And if you haven't flogged this topic enough, Wikipedia has an entry about the Mexican cave and the controversy.


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jan 24 - 11:42 AM

I played detective this morning to track down a sharable version of this story from 2020. Journals like Science and Nature have a hefty paywall, but sometimes you can get one or two articles free a month. Were humans living in a Mexican cave during the last ice age?
Startlingly early dates for stone tools could upend ideas about peopling of the Americas

It has to do with finding stone tools in a cave in Mexico, but since the cave doesn't also have a fire pit area (classic in human habitation) they can't be sure if the stones are tools or just naturally occurring fragments.
At first glance, Chiquihuite Cave in Mexico's Zacatecas state is an unlikely place to find signs of early humans, let alone evidence that might change the story of the peopling of the Americas. It sits a daunting 1000 meters above a valley, overlooking a desert landscape in the mountains north of Zacatecas. Getting there requires a 4- or 5-hour uphill scramble over a moonscape of jagged boulders.

But in the soil below the cave's floor, a team led by archaeologist Ciprian Ardelean of the Autonomous University of Zacatecas, University City Siglo XXI, dug up almost 2000 stone objects that researchers think are tools. By combining state-of-the-art dating methods, the team argues that humans were at the site at least 26,000 years ago—more than 10,000 years before any other known human occupation in the region. "Chiquihuite is a solitary dot" of human occupation, Ardelean says.

The dates place humans there during the height of the last ice age, when ice covered much of what is now Canada and sea levels were much lower. To have settled in Mexico by then, Ardelean says, people must have entered the Americas 32,000 years ago or more, before the ice reached its maximum extent.


That's a sample from the article, but if you can't open that, this via Google Scholar. It's just the abstract, but it has a lot of the author names you can use to track down other stuff along these lines.


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 22 Jan 24 - 09:03 PM

Scottish tartan: World's oldest tartan brought 'back to life' ... An original piece of tartan material was discovered in a peat bog in Glen Affric in the Highlands, around 40 years ago.

After testing by The Scottish Tartans Authority, it was confirmed to be the oldest in the world, dating from around 1500-1600 AD.

Now, a team of fashion designers from the House of Edgar, alongside a tartan historian, have recreated this special tartan, for anyone to wear.

Peter E. MacDonald, a historian at at the Scottish Tartans Authority, who helped with the research said: "It is quite special to see the tartan remade as it could have been 500 years ago." ...


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jan 24 - 08:18 AM

Rare Crouching Bodies Found Amongst Mass Ancient Burial site in Wales


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 02:32 PM

"Jewels" being decorative things and not necessarily stones, it appears the jewels here are metal, gold and silver, though it lists coral and amber as part of it.

Ancient temple filled with gold and silver jewels discovered in Greece
Archaeologists excavating a sanctuary honoring the ancient Greek goddess Artemis have announced they discovered a significant number of structures, as well as plentiful relics, including gold and silver jewels.

A "monumental building in the heart of the sanctuary" was first found in 2017, according to a recent social media post from Greece's Ministry of Culture. Another temple was found in 2023. Excavating this second temple turned up "rich relics" and jewelry, the ministry said. Other excavations found buildings from the ninth and eighth centuries B.C.

The excavations are conducted annually by a group of Swiss and Greek archaeologists, the Ministry of Culture said in a news release. The research project began about 15 years ago, the ministry said.

A bonus link at the bottom of that story says an ancient aqueduct was uncovered along with a few coins.


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jan 24 - 07:18 PM

This one is considered to be the biggest https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/derinkuyu-turkey-underground-city-strange-maps


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jan 24 - 07:06 PM

Turkey is known for many ancient underground cities but I think it is this one...https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/inside-turkey-underground-cities#:~:text=Beneath%20the%20streets%20throughout%20parts,


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jan 24 - 03:49 PM

A friend posted a photo on Instagram of a re-discovered deep cave community in Turkey that looks interesting but she offered no links and little information so I'll do some digging before I post more about it. I think she did a cut/paste with the text, so that's my starting point.


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jan 24 - 10:07 AM

https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/ancient-fortifications-revealed-undernea


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 07:50 AM

Sorry I didn't do a link but it's an immediate google!


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 07:26 AM

thanks for your report, Steve, this is how I travel.

I never did the big O/S trip when I was young, I bought my flat instead & travelled with books, & later the www. I see the world thru other people's eyes.


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 06:52 AM

The only hill figure I've seen close up is the Long Man of Wilmington in Sussex. There's no reference to it in any literature before 1710. It may have been carved out of the grass around that time by an enterprising monk. It's been seriously messed about with down the years (it may never have been originally in chalk, its feet have been altered, headgear removed, its two staves shortened and changed, a massive penis drawn on it, a face mask added, etc.). It's now marked out by white-painted blocks. It's still mightily impressive, and, to see it in correct human proportion, you have to view it from the bottom of the hill. Clever!


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 06:35 AM

Calling Leonardo "Da Vinci" is like calling me "Of Bude" instead of Steve (I've been called worse). Vinci is merely the town in Tuscany where he came from. In context, "Leonardo" is just fine, in other words as long as you're talking about the great Italian polymath, not "Titanic."

I hadn't heard the story of Copernicus's grave. What a great piece of science.


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Subject: RE: Armchair Archaeologist (via Google Earth) pt 2
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 24 - 07:44 PM

Copernicus deduced the sun was at the center of our solar system after Leonardo DaVinci surmised the same thing. Da Vinci's genius was tempered by procrastination. He never took the time to publish his findings. From the evidence of the notebooks that survive, if even a fraction of Da Vinci's discoveries or insights had made it into the public domain when he was alive, science could have been advanced by an era (i.e., imagine if we had next century's technology today). It was he who first surmised that "The earth is not in the centre of the Sun's orbit nor at the centre of the universe."


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