BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works

Subject: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain reaaly works
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jan 23 - 01:32 AM

While psychologists observe behaviors and choices Neuroscience looks at how the brain processes. Some people think that the way they think is generally shared by most people but we are wired differently in innumerable ways. Our motor functions may have a dominant right side or left. We tend to have a dominant eye. Some of us use language over mental images. Some of us do not even think in mental images at all. We even may have mental images of concepts that may appear as squeezing a balloon and having an effect elsewhere or other unique images.. an alternative may be only in language interpretation. A savant may use biarre symbols in ways even they can not explain.

The biggest myth about the brain is that we use only 10% but in reality we are most often using all of our brains. Another inaccuracy is that the right brain is all subjective/creative and the left is all analytical and computational. The truth is that research was from studying people who had their corpus callosum cut separating the left brain from the right hemisphere. For those of us with intact callosum, there is exchange and interaction that can use either or both sides for subjective or objective tasks although language is a left-centered activity for men.
A lop-sided brain activity is not a bad thing and merely indicates where strengths may be.

New data indicates that coding in Python is done best by those with stronger language skills and bilinguals than those with advanced math skill. This is the opposite of what was previously believed. Serotonin and its calming complement dopamine have different balances in all of us and accounts for varying degrees in competitiveness and factors like introvert and extrovert behaviors.

With 86 billion neurons and even more connections, the differences in how we use them is profound even in the high speed white nerve bundles.

sources: NIH education, Adam Grant and numerous researchers.



;

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain reaaly works
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Jan 23 - 02:54 AM

This is interesting Donuel. As a retired teacher, I have many memories of pupils with very different brain activity - some more gifted in language use, others analytical and tending towards the sciences, some disinclined to learn or pay attention to academical subjects. I expect we are all different in our brain function, and this probably affects our characters too.
The brain is an extremely complex and fascinating organ isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain reaaly works
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jan 23 - 07:44 AM

It reaaly is... even when it doesn't work.

I am right handed, left eye dominant, right brained, poor in verbal speech but fine in writing. I have very early memory which is rare.

Damage a small area and we could lose speech, short term memory, or other amazing functions. Change the brain and you change the person.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain reaaly works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 23 - 09:03 AM

"fine in writing"

?

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain reaaly works
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jan 23 - 09:55 AM

I would say it is better than or easier than verbal speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Helen
Date: 02 Jan 23 - 01:49 PM

As a dyslexic, I am better at writing than speech, and I can proofread what I write, but saying something aloud is harder to "proofread". As soon as I misspeak I realise I have done it and correct it, but it's difficult to stop myself saying the wrong words sometimes.

The numbers 5 and 2 are my biggest downfall because they look the same to my brain if they are mirror imaged vertically, i.e. flip them vertically. That problem occurs if I am copying and typing something, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 23 - 03:15 PM

As a southpaw I'm fine with screwing in (or out) screws that are directly in front of me, but if the screw is underneath (like those wing nut ones under toilet seats) or to one side I'm all at sea, scared to death of overtightening something that I'm supposed to be loosening (yes I know the saying so no need to quote it - it still doesn't work). And don't get me started on left-handed threads such as the ones on my barbecue gas cylinders. Scissors and nail clippers are a complete nightmare. I'm in a repressed minority.

I'm a confirmed left-hander in almost everything, but I use a knife and fork like right-handers (though not a spoon) and I kick a football with my right foot. No-one ever forced these things on me.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jan 23 - 08:28 PM

I have classic dyslexia so I can watch TV in the mirror and still read the subtitles. In the mirror American cars drive like in the UK and visa versa. I'm good at geometry and bad at algebra. As a kid I invented my own language with letters and all.
Helen take heart that Leonardo Da Vinci was clearly dyslexic. We all look basically the same and symmetrical from the outside, but on the inside, we are not symmetrical and neurally very different.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jan 23 - 05:09 PM

If the heart flat lines and the brain has no electrical activity then it is impossible to be conscious yet this is when people have a near death experience and tell us about them after they return to life.
I guess we don't know everything.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 23 - 05:51 PM

Leonardo was not "clearly dyslexic" at all. He wrote backwards, which is not dyslexic. We lefties would love to write backwards as, otherwise, we smear what we've just written. Also, he wrote forwards in natural fashion when he wrote to friends. As for "near-death experiences," it's all one hundred percent unprovable claims and nil percent evidence. Unless you can demonstrate otherwise. Which I know you can't.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 23 - 06:23 PM

And I wholeheartedly agree that we don't know everything. The problem there is that the gaps in our knowledge are vulnerable to being filled in by imagination, flights of fancy and sheer speculation. Anything that doesn't require evidence. In the realm of religion, we call that filling-in "the God Of The Gaps," whereby anything you can't instantly explain via science is "explained" via mysticism (often expressed in obscure ways not intended to be understood by we non-cognoscenti) or resort to the unexplainable supernatural.

Near-death experiences and precognition are prime areas for this distortion of science to prevail...

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Helen
Date: 03 Jan 23 - 06:31 PM

Thomas Jefferson University article

Was Leonardo Da Vinci’s Dyslexia Responsible for His Brilliance?

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 23 - 06:52 PM

Full of the usual weasel words

“Dyslexia is probably one of the things that made da Vinci so creative, made him Leonardo,”

"Yet, the possibility that da Vinci might have been dyslexic"

"The possibility that da Vinci had dyslexia, which we can never truly know of course, illuminates how complex and poorly understood the condition is,”

The latter says it all really. Read it carefully. It says WE CAN NEVER TRULY KNOW OF COURSE. Is that one of the truths you are seeking Donuel?

It is fun to theorise and speculate but to package those theories as facts is simply conning your audience. Something that priests, immams and fakirs have done for centuries.

People don't need to be psychic or dyslexic to be special. Just be yourselves and your friends will still love you. Stop looking for things to make you out of the ordinary and be happy in your own skin!

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 23 - 07:17 PM

It's amazing that supposedly scholarly articles can refer to Leonardo as "Da Vinci." This is egregiously and risibly so wrong, folks!

You can google "was Leonardo dyslexic" and you'll get as many answers as there are days in the month. Of course, if you find one that contradicts poor ould Steve, well whack it up here!

This is not the place, but there's a half-decent argument that dyslexia isn't actually a real thing. I won't make that argument myself, but I do know as a secondary schoolteacher that "dyslexia" is widely used by parents of rather reluctant-to-learn teenagers as a get-out-of-jail card...

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jan 23 - 08:15 PM

I was so wary of posting anything about a near death experience since Steve might conceivably have a stroke. You see, the subject can lead to mediums and spirits and a Dave friendly magic of consciousness beyond the brain. His urge to deny other people's experiences is palpable.
The subjects of ghosts and fairies is so British but it might risk a heart attack. "Might I get Master an aspirin? A Port, very good sir."

Those that have had near death experiences seem more sincere than ghost spotters.

Did Vinci have dyslexia or drain bamage?

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 23 - 08:30 PM

"Those that have had near death experiences seem more sincere than ghost spotters."

You missed out the word "alleged." And it looks like "seems sincere" is good enough for science!

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jan 23 - 10:06 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDzXbdxeeHI

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 23 - 06:01 AM

I have no urge to deny other people's experiences. I do have the urge to ask them, every time, whether they are being truthful with me and with themselves. That's a perfectly legitimate challenge in the face of claims that can't currently be supported by science. There are plenty of people around who rather like to set themselves apart by claiming special powers or mystical experiences. That can sometimes arise because they feel that they are simply one in a crowd, which makes them somehow feel inadequate, so they have to come up with something to make them stand out as a bit special. Fátima and Lourdes, anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jan 23 - 10:34 AM

I accept the fact that many people are broken while most are merely damaged, present company included. Accepting exclusively the truth, will leave you in a world of eternal betrayal and bitterness. That may even include current accepted scientific beliefs. You sound like a person who was hurt by a lie. Well get in line, by that standard we all could be disillusioned for life. Its healthy to be flexible and get over it. I had a therapeutic PHS catch phrase for the betrayed. "Let Go".

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 23 - 11:38 AM

You're confusing eternal betrayal and bitterness with healthy scepticism. You certainly follow your own code of flexibility, that's for sure. You're flexible with facts and flexible with science in ways that would have the average scientist scratching his or her head. And thanks for the advice, though I should tell you that I've never been hurt by a lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jan 23 - 12:02 PM

You would think you are healthy, but believe me, you are no paragon of perfection.
There are times when studying prior to complete understanding where one only has it half right in all works of progress. The incessant claim of 'liar liar pants on fire' is both bizarre and antithetical to the teaching profession. You my dear boy are more than damaged. Bounding each of my posts with yours like book covers is frankly ill-mannered and compulsive and has nothing to do with expanding ideas. Something is wrong with you that even you can not/will not explain.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 23 - 01:59 PM

Yeah, what's wrong is that I'm not laughing at you hard enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jan 23 - 03:12 PM

Yes, it is primarily me you laugh at. I am a survivor which makes me a witness to far more than you seem capable of imagining. It has been a privilege to have 40 years undistracted by an unimportant job with the freedom to think and learn. I have had time to change my mind time and again. You will never change your mind or even have the capability of change. You seem to think I am your competition. I am not.

Like the simple advantage of homo sapiens over Neanderthals, I have the ability to go farther on less than my stocky ancestor with a wider scope of thought and expression.

Now back to the brain...Ever since my middle school sci project 'The electrical brain' with my realistic model of the brain and electrical stimulation of actual muscles I have continued to follow new pathways of communication in the brain beyond electricity. Hormonal, photon, chemical, micro tubuals and others. The secrets of the hypothalamus and the amygdala have been opened. Yet the reason for a symmetrical mirroring of the functions of the brain (top to bottom, left to right) is unanswered.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jan 23 - 03:17 PM

Only hearing is processed on the same side. Mostly.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 23 - 04:41 PM

You've got an ego bigger than my arse, that's for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jan 23 - 07:59 PM

For the curious; https://www.sciencedaily.com/news/mind_brain/neuroscience/

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 23 - 08:13 PM

Don't be fooled, dear readers. As Donuel well knows, Science Daily is by no means a proper science website. It deals mostly in press releases and does not indulge in actual journalism very much at all. Not an honest link, old chap...

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 23 - 06:12 AM

Ode to a washed up curmudgeon.

Some things are more than obvious.
There are but two in his audience.
Him and his missus who dismisses
his tired expired licenses
But at night she reminisces
when he imagined his eminence.
Now, only a deluded narcissist.
who thinks he is a scientist.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 23 - 06:33 AM

You have confused Scientific American with Popular Mechanics again

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jan 23 - 06:56 AM

Neither Scientific American nor Popular Mechanics have been mentioned anywhere!

And the same post in two threads, eh? Wassermatter, you running out of doggerel?

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jan 23 - 11:08 AM

Aggregator sites like Science Daily are a help and a nuisance at the same time. They want to attract eyeballs in order to sell memberships and advertising. They're science click bait. But there is usually enough information in the blurb they let anyone see that you can suss out where the actual science paper has been published and find a way to read it. Google Scholar offers up versions of research that has been stored in university repositories and more.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jan 23 - 03:58 PM

It's like choosing the right news source, innit... and probably always better to choose multiple ones. The trouble with science is that potted science is rife in glossy mags. The human race has been doing science since the year dot, and many a wrong path has been chosen. The gold standard is peer-reviewed science that has been done following the scientific process. When some of the stuff we are confronted with here is found wanting, and we mention it, you'd think we were setting out to insult the messenger instead of the potted science...

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 23 - 04:35 PM

Well Steve if you aren't the one man peer review committee for the entire world. Dave asks to keep it simple and dumb it down and Steve wants a Presidential science advisor-certified recommendation.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jan 23 - 05:10 PM

Don't be silly.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Jan 23 - 07:42 AM

How the brain works?

1) people decide first & justify afterwards. With the aid of the right news sources aka echo chamber.

2) That is because we evolved in a brutal hunter-gatherer world to decide safety and analyse what to do from that position of safety thereafter. It is why we are here to be able to pontificate, as a species to this day.

3) Con men know this to be true.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 23 - 11:02 AM

In the early days man might face a hungry lion and fight or flight.
Modern man faces employers and has to constipate his anxiety and if he flees he loses his job and food. This makes for a concentrated anxiety that shrinks pretend to water down.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Jan 23 - 11:04 AM

When you come back into your brain you assign meaning to its activity. D'où dreams and near-death experiences. Nothing mystical there.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 23 - 07:06 AM

We have five senses, 6 if you are into that, after a second all combine for experience in your brain and spinal cord and five times the number of nerve cells in your abdomen than in the spinal cord all speaking to each other.
That experience is nuanced differently in each person. Change one sense like smell and you change the experience.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 23 - 07:14 AM

The way smell is first processed through the amygdala it influences emotions more than any other sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 10 Jan 23 - 05:46 PM

Taste is 90% smell, as Herself found out recently when we both had Covid: "Even chocolate doesn't taste right." It didn't affect me that way to speak of, but then I've got no taste.

For completeness: I read once that it should be at least seven senses: add Balance, and Temperature Discrimination (which is distinct from Touch). I'm also myself in two minds as to whether Pain is distinct from Touch, or is just Touch (and/or Temperature) in overload mode; and some of the hairs involved in sensing Balance have crystals on the ends, so may double up as Which Way Up sensors .... and that's before we get into the controversial area of whether human pheromones still work after all these millions of years.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 23 - 05:57 PM

"The way smell is first processed through the amygdala it influences emotions more than any other sense."

More than hearing some late Beethoven or seeing nature in all its glory on a spring day? Do tell us more.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 02:43 PM

Obama started the brain project at NIH and I am wondering what is coming from it now and if Congress will defund it as revenge.,

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 23 - 12:51 PM

Its not like a lightbulb but the brain makes a biophoton that travels inside the brain https://www.technologyreview.com/2017/09/06/149285/are-there-optical-communication-channels-in-our-brains/
We have grown brain tissue in the lab but the creepiest thing of all is that it also grew tiny eyes.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Jan 23 - 09:32 AM

It isn't that taste is mostly smell, it is that taste and smell are needed to produce FLAVOR.

Try this with an artificial flavor like cherry koolaid: take a breath, take a drink without breathing, you will taste sweetness. Swallow, then exhale. Then, you will get the cherry flavor.

Great book on the natural history of the senses.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 23 - 11:57 AM

That's why you can't taste food very well with a cold that's blocked up your nose.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Stanron
Date: 13 Jan 23 - 01:45 PM

If you can bear it, a few chilli flakes on the tongue will clear a blocked nose. It won't last as long as something like Sudafed but it won't leave you with a worse blocked nose 18 to 24 hours later either. Since I started using chilli flakes in coffee I rarely get a blocked nose now.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 10:21 AM

Question time.
1 What is reality?
2 What drives the self, what is the engine of the mind, the mind or the brain?


1 Whatever you believe, perceive or sense the meaning of something to be is your reality. Ergo there are many changeable realities.

2 The brain especially in a cohesive state is the key to endless possibility.

Stroke victims often find that it takes a year to get used to a new brain.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 10:59 AM

The engine of the brain is energy. It is older than the Sun. It is as old as the universe itself. The Sun's energy is only equal to 4.5 trillion atomic bombs per second but the universe is far more energetic.
Some life has learned to use the energy of the sun directly but we belong to a different class of life. How we have managed our hunger for energy is a magnificent complex story yet it is a very old story in which our next meal is never guaranteed. Our brain has sought to create more guarantees. We spend energy to protect our energy. Our defenses have now become clever to a fault.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 11:09 AM

Energy has but one choice in the universe and that is to be transformed.
Once created it can not be destroyed or so we believe.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 11:45 AM

Answer time: if the mind is the engine of the mind (you did give us that choice...), is my car engine the engine of my car?

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 12:04 PM

> It isn't that taste is mostly smell, it is that taste and smell are
> needed to produce FLAVOR.

Taste, smell, texture, and sight. Herself can smell whether something is off as soon as she's seen the Use-By date.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 05:32 PM

The key to gaining more control of your autonomic nervous system is through breath control. Your breath is part automatic and part conscious to begin with. It can help you to cope with extreme cold, anxiety, and as you know even music.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Jan 23 - 11:43 AM

I am half-anosmic. Can't smell stink but fragrance, yes.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jan 23 - 01:08 PM

That is also a trait of the Zeta Reticuli who smell like ammonia to begin with. Do you have bumps on your scalp too?

The Very Large Array radio telescope in New Mexico has been turned into a transmitter to broadcast Tik Tok into space in an effort to attract the attention of very silly aliens. https://public.nrao.edu/ask/can-the-vla-antennas-be-used-as-transmitters/

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jan 23 - 02:36 PM

Neurotoxins in your world

Forty-one million IQ points. That’s what Dr. David Bellinger determined Americans have collectively forfeited as a result of exposure to lead, mercury, and organophosphate pesticides. In a 2012 paper published by the National Institutes of Health, Bellinger, a professor of neurology at Harvard Medical School, compared intelligence quotients among children whose mothers had been exposed to these neurotoxins while pregnant to those who had not. Bellinger calculates a total loss of 16.9 million IQ points due to exposure to organophosphates, the most common pesticides used in agriculture.

Last month, more research brought concerns about chemical exposure and brain health to a heightened pitch. Philippe Grandjean, Bellinger’s Harvard colleague, and Philip Landrigan, dean for global health at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in Manhattan, announced to some controversy in the pages of a prestigious medical journal that a “silent pandemic” of toxins has been damaging the brains of unborn children. The experts named 12 chemicals—substances found in both the environment and everyday items like furniture and clothing—that they believed to be causing not just lower IQs but ADHD and autism spectrum disorder. Pesticides were among the toxins they identified.



In my opinion belief systems can be as bad as neurotoxins.
Examples are Scientology, Essential oils, QAnon, Trumpism, and a million other dangerous belief systems.

While sleep is our natural means of cleansing neurotoxins, a good nights sleep will not help a bad belief system. Even Steve has a loss of common sense regarding a few of his beliefs.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jan 23 - 04:42 PM

Well, serial troll, first of all I don't "believe" things. I want evidence. And, as you probably know but don't give a flying shite about, the invention of IQ by Eysenck and similar quasi-Nazis has long been discredited. Not least because of the overt racial connotations (maybe you haven't noticed, so I should be kind). So choose your professors more carefully is my advice.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jan 23 - 05:21 PM

Right. IQ. I was tested at primary school and I did another supervised test at the age of 20 (it cost me two quid to send it off and get it marked). I can't remember my scores but in both tests I was placed in the top two-percentile of the population (and was repeatedly invited to join Mensa).

None of it means a bloody thing. It is measuring how good you are at doing the tests and how much you've practised the tests. Nothing more. Whoever invented this stuff didn't have a clue what "intelligence" actually is, and we still don't know. It may not even be a "thing" at all. I can't say I'm surprised that you try to predicate your "wisdom" on the doings of these charlatans. Maybe your IQ isn't high enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jan 23 - 06:47 PM

Yeah yeah water's wet. Once again you missed the point and are off on a tangent IQ descriptor in language. Where you lack common sense, for one, is not even looking at 4 decades of actual research on the medicinal value of fungi. You don't want evidence you want either Victimhood or abject Trollism. Like a pendulum, you go from one extreme to the other.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jan 23 - 07:15 PM

Victimhood is the first and most central feature of fascism.
I believe some people are exasperated at your criticism of my being human and you being a pathological human from my POV.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jan 23 - 07:36 PM

I don't go as deep as that. You are simply a raving nutter, and you reinforce that with every post! Had you stepped back for a minute before posting your bigging-up of IQ, you would have realised that hanging your "science" on such discredited racist nonsense was opening you up to the sort of criticism that would make anyone bar you recoil from. You're not only a serial troll, you're also a racist sympathiser. Go back to your mushroom stash and do less harm.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 06:55 AM

Its is your delusion that I am the author of the article from the Atlantic. I am not but it is well written and you come off sounding like a senile curmudgeon. You really should get that check-up. You might be able to slow the progression of Alzheimer's.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 07:20 AM

You two squabbling brats are allowed to ignore each other, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 07:29 AM

I am proud that I 'actively' resisted the draft and induction into the military to kill yellow people from Viet Nam. I later received a full Presidential pardon.
I was at the MLK speech at the Lincoln Memorial after a 6 hour bus trip.
My POV is shaped by the fact I have never been harmed or wronged by a black person but only by whites in my lifetime.

I am biographical and you are a shadow.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 07:45 AM

Enough said, our true colors are apparent. Mom used to say you should never argue with crazy folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 08:24 AM

Nobody knows what intelligence is, yet. Or how to test it.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 08:41 AM

The 2000 year old thoughts of a desert culture was intelligent for its time but much of it is erased and changed. The intelligence of another culture across the ocean is much different although they did co coexist.
The Mayan was much more cosmologically based than the Jewish culture although the Spaniards later did a fairly complete job of burning all the Mayan books. Knowing what they were truly about is as hard as determining the thoughts of the most intelligent dinosaurs as they watched the setting sun.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 09:02 AM

"Nobody knows what intelligence is, yet. Or how to test it."

Well said, Mrrzy. The scoundrels who came up with the concept of "IQ" and the claim that it could be measured via silly paper tests have used it for nefarious, mostly racist purposes only, and "scientists" who use data derived from that lack both credibility and integrity.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 03:58 PM

> Nobody knows what intelligence is, yet. Or how to test it.

Basically, if you can do a deterministic test for it, it's not intelligence. Researchers repeatedly fall into the following circular trap:

* One group says: "*This* can't be done by a machine, so it must be a sign of intelligence."
* Another group then says, "If we build a machine that can do *this*, the machine will be intelligent."
* The second (or a third) group succeeds in producing *that* machine ,which can do *this*, much to everybody's surprise.
* The first group then says, "If *this* can be done by *that* machine, we were mistaken. Let's find something else ...."

.... and we repeat.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 04:26 PM

I think another myth about our brain is that Chimps share 99% of our DNA. I think other factors make us much more different.
Picture a Chimp playing Chopin but not very well. I don't think so. Does that one percent difference contain so much difference between our species? It seems bigger than 1%

We are actually called Homo Sapien Sapien. (Hominid who knows he will die) This might be another myth.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 04:44 PM

Evolution has evolved different forms of life after various extinction events on Earth. Life could have evolved very differently with the smallest of alternative events. Suppose the first chordate fish all died out, we would not be here or with only 1,000 hominids surviving suppose a flood wiped them all out.

Most sci-fi writers approach different forms of life evolving from different environments which led to different abilities and senses.
This makes some profound differences in the possibilities of life around various life-friendly stars on planets or moons.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 04:45 PM

Another post riddled with inaccuracy and wrong perspectives.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 05:55 PM

> I think another myth about our brain is that Chimps share 99% of our DNA.

They do, or nearly so, but not everything is in the genotype --- after all, we also share something like 60% of our DNA with cabbages (which might explain why I feel a bit green some mornings). What chimps (and cabbages) are lacking isn't intelligence, but extelligence: speech and writing in particular, and education in general. Once you get as far as clay tablets, papyri, books, printing, computers etc, the information is outside any one particular organism, so it can survive the death of said individual, and sometimes the death of an entire civilisation.

Side note: What I'm waiting for is for someone to crack Etruscan script. We might then get to see what the early Roman civilisation looked like from the outside.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 06:12 PM

"They share 99% of our DNA" is meaningless. Oh, if life were only so simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 07:00 PM

> "They share 99% of our DNA" is meaningless.

Not entirely meaningless, but a bit, well, incomplete in isolation; you need a mother, a world of the right temperature and full of oxygen and nutrients, and (in Hom Sap's case) a culture, to complete the spell. I find recipes somewhat lacking in nutrition, unless they're printed on rice paper.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 07:46 PM

Well the problem is that "DNA" has become a catch-all in the realm of popular science (or potted science). DNA is one hundred percent shared by all living organisms bar some viruses. The real science talks instead about genome sequences, the millions of individual nucleotide differences, insertions and deletions, mutation, gene activation and inactivation, gene duplications and a lot more besides. "We share 99% of DNA" is a less-than-half-truth lifted straight out of the pages of New Scientist or some other multicoloured glossy non-peer-reviewed mag. It doesn't help.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 08:11 PM

"We are actually called Homo Sapien Sapien. (Hominid who knows he will die) This might be another myth."

Well here we go again. We are actually designated Homo sapiens sapiens. The name is Latin for "wise man" and has nothing to do with knowing that we will die. Note correct spellings and appropriate capitalisation. Accuracy is everything in science. The second "sapiens" is the presumed subspecies designation which applies to all living humans. The question of subspecies in humans is somewhat fraught, as all the claimed subspecies bar our one are extinct. The Neanderthals have been variously assigned to a subspecies of Homo sapiens and to a species in their own right. Who knows. Not me. Arguments for numerous subspecies of humans have lost a lot of ground in recent decades.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 08:24 PM

A cracking headline from the Guardian website (knowing them, they'll fix it soon):

Scientists discover emperor penguin colony using satellite images

Damn clever, those birds!

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 10:02 PM

I do not pretend to know why ONLY left-hand proteins are involved in life on Earth. Perhaps a right handed protein life form could exist.
Cracking open that chestnut could lead to more mysteries of life in the universe.

Has anyone ever seen a human that has the appearance of being a throw back of a Neanderthal? I think people who look like they are a throwback to Cro Magnon are very attractive. Perhaps some of these people could actually share DNA sequences. My point is we are an amalgam of more than we know but there are no other sapien species for us to mingle with. We might hit an evolutionary dead end and could be best served by more than mutations alone. I haven't thought this out yet but I know there are dangers in a lack of diversity or growing mono crops.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 23 - 03:45 PM

There is only one sapien [sic] species as "sapiens" is the specific name. Duh. You can look at people and see Neanderthal or Cro-Magnon all you like. The thing is, we can only guess what they actually looked like from the relatively limited material we have. Genetic variation is rife in we sexual beings, so be careful who you accuse of looking like a Neanderthal. Perhaps you should google genotype/phenotype and spend the next few years thinking things through a bit more.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 23 - 07:53 PM

It is a fact we can share some Neanderthal DNA IN OUR SAPIEN GENOME.
I don't know about Cro Magnon, do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 23 - 08:47 PM

We can share some amoeba DNA in our genome. You're seriously out of your depth. I've tried to explain "sapiens" to you but you don't listen.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 23 - 09:30 PM

So you didn't know:

Some 40,000 years ago, Cro-Magnons -- the first people who had a skeleton that looked anatomically modern -- entered Europe, coming from Africa. A group of geneticists, coordinated by Guido Barbujani and David Caramelli of the Universities of Ferrara and Florence, shows that a Cro-Magnoid individual who lived in Southern Italy 28,000 years ago was a modern European, genetically as well as anatomically

The Cro-Magnoid people long coexisted in Europe with other humans, the Neandertals, whose anatomy and DNA were clearly different from ours. However, obtaining a reliable sequence of Cro-Magnoid DNA was technically challenging.
The risk in the study of ancient individuals is to attribute to the fossil specimen the DNA left there by archaeologists or biologists who manipulated it," Barbujani says. "To avoid that, we followed all phases of the retrieval of the fossil bones and typed the DNA sequences of all people who had any contact with them."

The researchers wrote in the newly published paper: "The Paglicci 23 individual carried a mtDNA sequence that is still common in Europe, and which radically differs from those of the almost contemporary Neandertals, demonstrating a genealogical continuity across 28,000 years, from Cro-Magnoid to modern Europeans."

The results demonstrate for the first time that the anatomical differences between Neandertals and Cro-Magnoids were associated with clear genetic differences. The Neandertal people, who lived in Europe for nearly 300,000 years, are not the ancestors of modern Europeans.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 23 - 10:16 PM

CATCH UP. You're at least 15 years behind

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Jan 23 - 04:03 AM

I'm puzzled as to how you think that your unattributed and uncommented-on copy-and-paste negates anything I've said.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jan 23 - 07:37 PM

I know who i am and it is not an ego. Your negativity has no effect on me because I know you have little comprehension of my narrative. The things we can say about life let alone consciousness and intelligence is that it is self-organized all the way down to the organization of the cell.
As I have always noticed the conscious mind is not the bass of everything, it is the unconscious mind. If you will, the conscious mind is a monkey atop an elephant
THAT CAN PROD THE ELEPHANT TO GO THIS WAY OR THAT BUT THE ELEPHANT GOES THE WAY IT NEEDS OR WANTS.
The monkey will have a first-person perspective and can make decisions and makes a model of free will but the unconsious system of the elephant is paramount.
Our monkey can make models of the world we see and touch but those models are only an interface perception. The world of our thoughts is not bound by our constructed models.
You may have had flying dreams in your dreams unbound by conscious models. For those who know about psychedelics, you may see how your conscious models become desynchronized.

When the conscious mind chooses its own local incentives greed, status, and evil, that results can threaten its own species' survival. These narcissists can even use the concept of love
to destroy humanity. Germany certainly loved their strongman. This has happened millions of times. With world-ending oil greed and nuclear weapons I do think mankind has much more than a thousand years.
Taming the self incentives of the conscious mind has been attempted throughout history to help human morality to project itself into the future with mixed results.
The differences in culture are obvious between the native Americans and the western whiteman. One treats its environment with deep respect and the other does not.
This is why I see the ego of the conscious mind as the most dangerous part of our psyche. Those that are enlightened know how to go beyond their ego desires.
Changing the mindset, philosophy, the paradigm of everyone on Earth is not likely to happen. I see an altered state of consciousness as a hopeful path.
Experience usually outperforms classroom instruction. You would choose a surgeon with the most experience and not the one with classroom learning.
I am not an anarchist but I do not embrace religion or state control of thought. I spend the time you spend on your phone simply thinking and don't use my phone.

Einstien said life goes against the grain of spacetime. What he means is that for a time we grow, heal, and become more organized and better while entropy takes a back seat.
Eventually, entropy takes over again along with the aging of the inanimate world. However, on the quantum level, a proton does not decay and seems immortal.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jan 23 - 07:43 PM

There are times when a narcissist may be good for the tribe but that would be in the event of a total collapse of civilization and people would have to learn new means of survival. The ego personality would have benefits many others may lack.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jan 23 - 07:49 PM

The power of the unconscious mind which has evolved for 3.8 billion years knows how to digest food and use the building blocks and created proteins to create growth and energy. It does everything the conscious mind has no idea how to accomplish step by self-correcting step.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Jan 23 - 08:08 PM

"Your negativity has no effect on me because I know you have little comprehension of my narrative."

My alleged "negativity" usually takes the form of polite enquiry. And I take your accusation of my having little comprehension of your narrative to be a badge of honour. In fact, I'd be amazed if anyone else here could claim to have much comprehension of your rather tortuous and unfocused "narrative." I'd challenge any defender of yours to give me a rundown as to what that rather lengthy recent post of yours actually means. And you are the last person I'd ever ask to provide such a rundown. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 23 - 09:03 AM

It's not about you although you wish it were. It's not about censoring or controlling thought. It's not what you can understand from another person's lifetime of specific inquiry in 5 minutes. It is about experience and consciousness. It seems you are stuck in a loop that will not allow you to comprehend. Maybe one or two other people can glean something here but they are free to do so or not. I like you have most of my public contributions to society behind me. I'm just being honest and not an automaton of repetitive redundant insults.

While my thoughts are highly compressed I believe they are transparent.
I accept the notion of enlightenment beyond the popular term of "woke".

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 23 - 09:17 AM

Experience AND Consciousness

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 23 - 09:36 AM

As a matter of fact, I'm contributing far more to society as a retired chap far more than I did when I was working for a living. You really do make lots of unsupportable assumptions that you think you can glean from the two-dimensional world of typewritten stuff you read here. In fact, I don't try to hide any facets of my persona. A few tuniferous comments, not enough maybe (I'm a tunester, not a songster), a good few jokes (real ones, googled or not), some recipes, a bit of leftie political argiebargie and me putting you right about science. Bejaysus, that last one is SO hard... That's about it. But enough about me. Do your homework first, write in good English, cut out all the online pretence about yourself and, you never know, we'll all end up loving you to bits.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 08:08 AM

As a teacher I can see why it was less of a contribution than you are as a retired chap. Your teaching is still all about your notion of punishment and accusation.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 08:13 AM

Well you haven't a clue about that and you shouldn't be saying it. By the way, I love your dangling modifier.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 09:36 AM

Seems to me you screwed up more Brit kids than you helped.
It also seems to me that making reasonable mistakes is essential for learning.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Rain Dog
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 09:46 AM

How many British people have you spoken to?
How many of those were people who were taught by Steve Shaw?

Not many I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 09:52 AM

None. He's just a frustrated has-been.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 10:30 AM

https://news.virginia.edu/content/deep-dive-neuroscience-discoveries

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 11:54 AM

That was tantamount to an accusation of child abuse, Steve. You are taking it ver calmly! Well done :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 11:59 AM

No problem, Dave. As Denis Healey once said after being criticised by Geoffrey Howe, it's like being savaged by a dead sheep...

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 12:13 PM

And…100!

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 12:21 PM

I recall in Mudcat's past when we had many more transparent professionals such as district attorneys and lawyers that were chased away by trolls like Martin Gibson, nemesis, and Steve.

While I am impervious to their trollism many still are not. I do however get Private Messages regarding the usual suspect's compulsive trollism and ad hominem negative remarks. To these messages, I do say where there is light there is heat. Abusive personalities are as common as TRUMP.

There was a time when people actually believed Steve's claim of being victimized. It was done by pure repetition. Partly through my efforts and Steve's own remarks, many more have come to know the truth.
Some may call his behavior the nature of the social media beast but overall conditions here have improved with new policies as well as ignoring the toothless threats and inane claims.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 12:36 PM

To me Steve is like a disgraced podcaster who claims that there is a monster living in the woods behind his house.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 12:50 PM

Demented. Poor thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 01:48 PM

Sorry, I know I should be ignoring it but I just cannot let that one go without comment

"I do however get Private Messages regarding the usual suspect's compulsive trollism and ad hominem negative remarks"

How ludicrous! An unproven and unproveable slur against an unnamed person or persons. I may well say that I have had PMs regarding the unusual sexual proclivities of someone who shall remain nameless. It is a despicable and cowardly way of casting doubt about the character of an opponent.

Donuel, if you are going to attack someone at least have the courage to name them and provide some proof of your accusations.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 03:32 PM

For most people the truly extraordinary gets pushed to the corners of the mind if they are able to make sense of them at all.
Proof haha. As if proof ever mattered Steve's remarks.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 04:00 PM

...to Steve's remarks...

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 05:06 PM

I keep saying I see and celebrate the truly extraordinary many times every day in my life, my children, my environment and the world in general. That you seem to seek it elsewhere is your business but please accept that some of us do not need to seek the mysterious and arcane to enjoy life.

As to proof, yes. Once you accuse someone of something, you need to prove it or be seen to make false claims. Simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 05:30 PM

Don the Trump-like-uel:

You have consistently been a spreader of, well, everything. And the reason I compared you explicitly to the former Prez is your similarity in throwing stuff on the wall, window, siding, ceiling, digital window, to see what would stick, some of it logical, some of it not so, some of it interesting, and a hell of a lot of it random memes from random minds. And you definitely definitely have been a new mud-age George Santos, which is why I expect a lot more of your mythomania to be freshly stimulated if not freshly off the "who am I this time" express itself.

Your incredible mental plasticity reminds me of the Sci-Fi movie with the alien who steals neurochemicals from his human victims to manufacture drugs. As he attacks each Earthling he says the same thing:

"I COME IN PEACE!"

Keep up the good work. Maybe you'll grow a brand new brain.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 05:41 PM

"incredible mental plasticity"

In the UK we have a different way of saying the same thing. It goes "mad as a box o' frogs."

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 06:31 PM

I used hypnosis with great success in treating phobias to medical procedures. hypnosis neuro science



I think robo is as confused by The Onion headlines as much as my sense of humor.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 07:20 PM

Before the (pre trial) Grand Jury concludes I will bring to evidence how Steve strongly objects when I am civil, friendly, or respectful to acquaintances of his. That he finds this irksome goes to prove his desire to Troll and acquire a consensus of his hate.
My belief is that there has always been a greater consensus for simple civility however, hate seems to make stronger bonds than love among certain conspiracy theory groups.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 08:03 PM

Completely mad, poor chap. Anyway, there's a nice comet to see with the unromantic name C/2022 E3, currently passing by and just above the handle of the Plough towards the Pole Star. It's green and fuzzy and might brighten up enough by the turn of the month to be a decent naked eye object. My brain didn't really work to find it tonight, which is clear and starry and away from light pollution where we live. Wrap up warm. I have a pair of Carl Zeiss Jena 8x30 binoculars that I bought new 45 years ago for £30. They are the real deal, not one of those thousands of fake CZJs that infest the market. They are absolutely top dog for a bit of casual astronomy. I hadn't a clue how good they were when I bought them. You can't beat naked eyes for meteor showers but the bins are brilliant for comets and for Jupiter's moons. You just need to know exactly where to look, that's all. Grr. I can't quite pick out Buzz Aldrin's footprints in the moondust but I'll keep trying.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 10:46 PM

Look north through Feb.2nd. It won't return for 50,000 years. You're 72 so just think, you have the rest of your life to look forward to.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 04:00 AM

It almost certainly won't return at all. Just think, last time it showed its hand was 10000 years before the Campanian Ignimbrite, in the sky during Neanderthal times.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 04:34 AM

I am not 72.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 06:26 AM

the controversial area of whether human pheromones still work after all these millions of years.

In the science world the only controversy is the word pheromone as a single synthesise-able entity.

There have been many experiments and statistical surveys that point to a combination of nebulous scents that make sense (pun intended). eg

the amount of bare flesh that women might wear at estrous
and the contention that women are more receptive at that time (& more fertile)
Surveys that show women (without knowledge) will favour the part of a park bench that men have sat on previously. & vice cersa.
There was a website that sold womens' underpants (worn for 1 day), and it proved popular.
Experiments with T-shirts worn for a day and presented to the opposite sex with telling questionairs following.

the amygdala/olfactory system often works at the unconscious level.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 06:42 AM

Had those one-day-worn women's knickers been worn by women? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 12:50 PM

I knew the owner of that business. The knickers were worn by his office secretary, it was part of a sideline for his printing business which published a magazine for connoisseurs of underwear. He was well known on the folk scene and a lovely chap.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 12:56 PM

Tommy Ducks, an infamous pub in Manchester which was criminally demolished without permission, had the walls and ceiling of its bar covered in women's knickers! The only rule was that, to be displayed, they had to be still warm :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 04:21 PM

So this is the way your brains work.
You're koo koo for clitty litter.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 04:55 PM

Not at all. We're trying to move away from your repressive bullshit. But you just can't help bringing it back, can you?

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 05:33 PM

It's his sense of humour, Steve. We will never understand it because we are not "special". Excuse me while I go into a serious depression...

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 05:40 PM

Don'l belongs here as much as anyone else. I do not mean to sound condescending, I simply don't care that I do. There's a great internetty word for Don'ls favorite type of subject:

"Deepity"

It can be fun, it can be interesting. Like "Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy" rating of Earth, it is "mostly harmless".

Just remember it's relationship to reality, or topical information may be tenuous, such as when Don'l tries to explain something technical or warn you of current events at the same time as accurately warn you of current events and, of course, correct any inaccuracies.

I long ago left Don'l to his own personal Snopes, whoever that may be. It is not me.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 08:09 PM

There is a reason why 'deepity is fun. surprise

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 08:13 PM

Yes, more popular potted "science." Why not.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 23 - 07:46 AM

LIEING ABOUT LIARS IS FAIR GAME.

"VP Pense has found classified documents in his home. Not to be outdone George Santos says he has some too."

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 23 - 03:25 PM

With my experience in hypnosis, I have warned about the susceptibility of the human mind to misinformation and conspiracy theories. If you do not remember this over the decades there is something wrong with the usual suspects with no cure.

The question was raised regarding if I believe I am special, which I can not know since I will never know the complete consciousness of others however if you ask if I have had special experiences, the answer is absolutely yes. I have witnessed incidents that defy current physics. I have met and conferred with scientists and astrophysicists
at their homes and establishments. I have been exposed to documents by Bigalo Aerospace. I have reviewed thousands of examples of evidence and hypnotized hundreds of experiencers on video which failed to provide any tangible proof. I have had more experience regarding the ufo phenomenon than the rest of you put together.
Apparently, I have had other experiences others have not had. Experiences make us all different and unique.
If I had a Fritz Zwicky personality it would not have resulted in meeting some great composers and conductors as well as fabulous musicians. I suspect Steve is a bevy short of meeting some great mentors.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 23 - 06:03 PM

Well that was absolutely the crowning glory of bullshit posts. Well done! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 03:21 AM

Had those one-day-worn women's knickers been worn by women? ;-)

Yes. It was a news item on the BBC and the women were interviewed as successful internet entrepreneurs. And they even were about to experiment with day specific wearings!

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 03:22 AM

Not to be outdone George Santos says he has some too.

Don'l - you should know, there ain't no Santos clause. The party of the first part...............

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 03:23 AM

It's a typical "I'm more important than you" post. My experiences are better than yours. The people I have met are smarter. All this without even having met us. I guess I am now included but who knows who the "usual suspects" are!

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 07:27 AM

Methinks Dave is sensitive about his Marvel louse universe Be proud of the artform and the allegories that come from that science fiction.
I think many people forget their accomplishments and let others define what is important. One should define their own experience and ignore the psychopaths who do not share the vision of those who explore the path less taken.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 08:28 AM

In the UK, the particular less-taken path you allege to have taken is known as "having gone up shit creek without a paddle."

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 08:59 AM

While the Donuel Steve feud is microscopic and childish I see the larger issue of dehumanization and toxic tactics of right-wing Republicans, whose aim is to own the left, in my country. When I say right-wing I mean fascist propaganda.

As of late, I can not make a comment without an automatic condemning Steve response. This is his unedited behavior for years. His disinformation is but temporary.      
I did not know I was so dangerous to his mindset or paradigms.
Attacks even on Senofou turned out to be a third rail Steve could not touch. I on the other hand am accused of a BS lifetime and prevarication of all that is sacred to science.

His pendulum swing between victimization and dehumanization is indicative of authoritarian techniques. Polemics aside people will decide to believe as they will. I choose to unravel controversial subjects and am accustomed to such heckling. Thank goodness scientists have prevailed over such robomatic nay sayers.

The only thing that can limit a person in life is their own vision.
People can rise from the lowest positions of life to great heights depending on their vision, not the distractors

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 09:56 AM

Late in life Amos explored the nature of consciousness. This inspired me to give tribute to this exploration and look more deeply into this fundamental reality. That was the unspoken motivation of this thread, now laid bare for all to see. (All six people)

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 09:59 AM

I'm not alone, pal, just the most vociferous, for my sins. I neither condemn nor misinform, nor do I ever affect the role of victim. It's ironic that you should say that when that last post of yours, along with many others, is so suffused with the lamentations of your own victimhood. Because your input is frequently so error-strewn, unfocused and often downright risible, I'm tempted to think that I shouldn't keep on at you. After all, the others here don't need any of the others among us to see what you're really about, sadly.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 10:05 AM

Your post of 26 Jan 23 - 07:27 AM is utterly non sensical to me Donuel. I have not the slightest idea what you are on about. Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 10:09 AM

Yeah yeah I'm the monster and you're the victim.
I'm the live and let live guy and you are whatever, perhaps Saint George.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 10:22 AM

In the meantime there's an asteroid (BU2023) that's going to zoom just 2200 miles above us tonight. The Guardian sez it's the size of a delivery truck. I should be safe then, as most delivery trucks have real trouble getting down the farm lane to our house...

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 10:27 AM

I read you believe in magic and are a fan of Marvel movies. You also wrote a fantasy book. Good for you.

As for me I can not adequately suspend my belief or be impressed by a glowing blue plot device in Marvel movies.

I do not call your remarks nonsensical, its just that tastes differ.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 10:35 AM

2,200 miles is about the distance from you to me. Thats close for an astroid that has already traveled trillions of miles.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 12:16 PM

So far, this lump of rock has been described as the size of a delivery truck, the size of a London Routemaster bus and the size of a minibus. At least most are agreed that it'll miss by about 2200 miles. Bloody astronomers.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 12:58 PM

I am a fan of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I had a short fantasy story published. I believe in the everyday magic, like sunsets,children and laughter, that occurs around us all the time. So not quite as you put it. Which brings me back to the point I keep making. We are on different levels. Neither are any better or worse, just different. It makes sensible communication impossible so I will just go back to letting it flow over me.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 01:26 PM

The Magic Of Reality is one of my favourite Richard Dawkins books. The title alone is a great way of putting the wonderful diversity of beauty of the natural world, but he doesn't diss fantastical myths and stories out of hand. There's plenty of room for flights of imagination, but real science supported by real evidence is beautiful in itself. What isn't beautiful is when flights of imagination solidify into repressive forces such as religion and political dogma, in the words of Brian McNeill using the Power and the Glory to keep us all in line...

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 02:41 PM

Also what is not beautiful is the Nazi. They are among us
and they have plans.
The cancer of societies is fascism. The unregulated growth of cells in the body politique.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 03:17 PM

I did say that but you clearly weren't listening.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 04:08 PM

They make the laws to chain us well
The clergy dazzle us with heaven, or they damn us into hell
We will not worship the God they serve,
a God of greed who feeds the rich while poor folk starve

Leon Rosselson. The world turned upside down

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 02:12 PM

Steve did not mention Nazi politics. I thought I should.

But this is about consciousness. Actually, panpsychism is the more boring straight forward of the possibilities. Other more rarified notions are often religious concepts of consciousness fields.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 04:59 PM

THERE ARE NO ANSWERS or conclusions for everything but instead everything is a kind of continuum. Whether we look out into space or deep into consciousness we are sometimes tempted to make a theory of everything or find the answer for the beauty of the universe but we probably will not solve the mystery. We have unraveled some of the ingredients and laws of how they fit together but there is no one overarching truth. We can make inroads into the mystery of Gravity but it may be possible to get closer however some people will give up and just blame/praise God.
I can view our lifetime as brief as the appearance of virtual particles popping into existence within the fullness of cosmological time. I can almost conceive of infinity. It is up to your POV to view demonstrable but hidden fields in our universe. The LHC is looking for extra dimensions. Dimensions we do not see is not a strange idea.
The confluence of the obvious nature of time and then knowing what time actually is , is a mystery. We know what time does but not
what it is. Perhaps you thought we should know more than we do. Cosmology is the science of speculation. Even Astrophysics has to leap to assumptions.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 05:00 PM

Then you don't know how to read posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 05:01 PM

more Brian Greene

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 07:07 PM

Yeah Yeah I know you claim constantly that I am an illiterate monster.
You however are a paragon of virtue, politeness, and an avid gourmand.
Please let us hear your performance of Beethoven again, or ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 07:34 PM

Not at all. It's simple. You didn't read my post properly.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jan 23 - 10:36 AM

Be careful with your self-incrimination, you are jailing yourself in a pathological loop. It's what unhappy people do.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 23 - 10:43 AM

Just cut the stupid insults, go back to the post, read it PROPERLY and see that you were wrong, why don't you. It's really simple, honest.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jan 23 - 11:17 AM

Dear Mr. Scrooge,
That was not an admonition or insult. It was a caring head's up, a thoughtful tug of the coattails, a friendly warning.

As for your threatening orders, it sounds like you are reliving your domineering criticism of the defenseless at your old school.

There is a good person here, not your servant.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 23 - 11:44 AM

Shut up and go and read the bloody post again.

Subject: RE: BS: Neuroscience-how your brain really works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 23 - 12:08 PM

For the sake of the terminally obstinate, yertis again:

"What isn't beautiful is when flights of imagination solidify into repressive forces such as religion and political dogma...

[Steve, 1.26pm, 26 Jan]