BS: A backward step in Australia

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: rich-joy
Date: 25 Oct 23 - 07:26 AM

I don't know if this article is accessible outside of Oz, but this book review of "Killing for Country" by David Marr is certainly worth a read, to gain some understanding of just how The Deep North [Qld] can easily hold the record for the highest NO vote in the recent referendum.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/oct/01/the-hatred-and-greed-of-the-frontier-wars-still-drive-race-politics-today-how-litt

"The hatred and greed of the frontier wars still drive race politics today. How little things change. : Rejig the 'no' voice case rhetoric a little and you’ll find echoes of arguments from the 19th century. Behind it all I hear familiar old voices growling."

"The records of the Native Police are missing, presumed destroyed, but modern scholars calculate that over the 60 years these Aboriginal troopers led by white officers slaughtered upwards of 40,000 people from the northern rivers of New South Wales all the way to Cape York.[FNQ]   
Those who still defend the massacres of those years say people were different then. If only that were so...."

The vile voices of the 19th century squatters et al still ring out in 2023 in, e.g., the diatribe today from Qld's Police Union's president, Ian Leavers, who warned in Qld's "Courier Mail" rag, that the Treaty and Truth-Telling avenues being discussed State by State in Australia :
" ..... "They are effectively offering a free pass to every rapist, domestic violence abuser, habitual home invader and car thief who tells police they identify as Aboriginal,” Leavers wrote..... "





I despair for this planet. How the hell are we gonna develop good working relationships with our various Space Brothers (and yes folks, it IS in process), when we still can't cope with other human beings here on earth with a different culture and skin tone to ours ......

Beam Me Up, Scotty.

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 31 Oct 23 - 01:55 AM

Stan Grant reflects on future of reconciliation after Voice to Parliament result in ANU address
... Grant said the campaigning by one politician in favour of the No vote was "devastatingly convincing".

On the night of the referendum, Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price said Indigenous people had to "step away from grievance".

Grant, in an apparent reference to the senator, said in his speech: "The victorious politician who says this No vote puts an end to the politics of grievance and in a pithy, media tested, inane sentence the hurt of my parents, my grandparents, the early deaths, the youth suicides, the lives lost to imprisonment, the snotty noses, itchy skin, and dazed look of another generation of inherited trauma — the solemn truth of what a nation has done to the First People – is waved away as mere contrivance. A collective gripe."

Grant also referred to Senator Nampijinpa Price's now controversial National Press Club address where she said Indigenous people were not currently experiencing the negative effects of colonialism because they had running water.

"I drink from a bubbler and I give thanks for running water. That's the measure of history, we have running water now," he said ...


Stan Grant bio

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Helen
Date: 15 Oct 23 - 01:11 PM

Social media disinformation was identified as one of the reasons for failure of the referendum, and the Opposition leader Peter Dutton voiced his opposition right from the start and did everything he could to block a Yes outcome.

[PM] Anthony Albanese calls for unity after Australians resoundingly vote down Indigenous Voice to Parliament referendum

"Prime Minster Anthony Albanese has vowed to forge a new way forward to close the gap in life outcomes between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians, after voters resoundingly rejected recognising the First Australians in the constitution with a Voice to Parliament.

"'Tonight is not the end of the road and is certainly not the end of our efforts to bring people together,' Mr Albanese said on Saturday night.

"'The issues we sought to address have not gone away and neither have the people of goodwill and good heart, who want to address them and address them we will.'

"The Voice to Parliament would have been an advisory body with no power of veto but permanently enshrined in the constitution, meaning a future government of the day could not abolish it without holding another referendum.

"It was first proposed after hundreds of Indigenous Australians, who took part in the Uluru Dialogues, issued the Statement from the Heart six years ago.

"That statement called for a constitutionally enshrined Voice along with truth telling and treaty.

"Indigenous Australians Minister Linda Burney said the government would announce in the coming months renewed government commitments to close the gap between Indigenous and non-Indigenous people, which includes life expectancy, education and the rates of suicide and disease."

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Helen
Date: 15 Oct 23 - 01:19 PM

I received an email from Amnesty International, which I support, and it expressed exactly how I am feeling. This is part of that email message:

"We come to you with heavy hearts. The result of the Voice referendum has left us devastated. We wanted to reach out to you, our valued human rights supporters, to express our profound disappointment but mostly to reinforce our unwavering commitment to First Nations justice.

"The outcome of the referendum is not what we had hoped for and worked so tirelessly towards. Right now, we’re contending with the nations rejection of the generous, unifying invitation from First Nations communities across Australia for a brighter future for this county. We share in the deep discouragement that you may be feeling. The road ahead seems challenging, but please know that we are not giving up. Together, we will persevere in the face of adversity–towards a more equal and just country.

"We want to express our continued solidarity with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Elders, leaders, and communities who have been at the forefront of this plight for generations. Their dedication and unwavering commitment to ensure their rights and that of their community are upheld is an inspiration to us all. We stand with them, shoulder to shoulder, and we will support them in their ongoing fight for justice.

"This result is a stark reminder that our work is far from over, and we must continue our efforts to educate, engage, and build consensus within our society. Even when faced with such results, we remain steadfast in our resolve to promote human rights for all."

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Helen
Date: 17 Oct 23 - 10:36 AM

The Awabakal lands are in the Newcastle and Hunter Valley area and 53% of us in Newcastle voted Yes.

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Helen
Date: 19 Oct 23 - 06:08 PM

Yes Thompson, Newie is a great place to live. It's a good community full of good people. It didn't surprise me that it was one of the very few electorates which had a Yes majority.

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Helen
Date: 20 Oct 23 - 05:18 AM

There was an ABC News article about this today:

Federal government will not cancel Chinese company Landbridge's Port of Darwin lease

If you read between the lines of both articles, you would see that a lot of the statements made by politicians are trying to shift blame onto the other political party, in some way or another.

Personally, I thought it was a strange decision to lease it to a major foreign entity. There are reassurances that it shouldn't be a problem in the future, but .... who knows what could happen?

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Helen
Date: 21 Oct 23 - 02:29 PM

Well said, rich-joy!

An old friend of my Hubby visited us yesterday for the first time in a very long time. We were talking a lot about the referendum, the Noalition, Peter Dutton who seems to think that being the leader of the Opposition means opposing everything proposed by the Labor party, if you don't know vote no, and putting more effort into closing the health, social, economic, education gaps - or maybe the new term should be chasms.

I am really hoping that proactive action ramps up now as a reaction to the No vote.

Your second link didn't work, so here it is:

How the media failed Australia in the Referendum 'campaign' (independentaustralia.net)

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Helen
Date: 21 Oct 23 - 02:59 PM

I just read this ABC (i,e, Oz ABC) News article by Indigenous Affairs Editor Bridget Brennan

Is reconciliation really dead after the Voice to Parliament was voted down?

I think there is hope for big changes. Out of disappointment comes motivation for change.

As Chumbawumba said:

We'll be singing
When we're winning
We'll be singing

I get knocked down
But I get up again
You're never going to keep me down

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Helen
Date: 21 Oct 23 - 07:18 PM

rich-joy, I agreed with most of the article on the independentaustralia.net site, but I have watched and read a lot of the coverage by the ABC and I think they were trying to allow both sides to put forward their arguments but the commentary was definitely sympathetic to the Yes campaign so I do not agree with this statement:

"Further, despite the number of outlets owned by or following Murdoch's divisive and skewed output, the ABC (seemingly cowed by News Corp's bullying) continued to give credibility to its journalists and commentators by giving them airtime."

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Helen
Date: 21 Oct 23 - 09:47 PM

Maybe the wonderful Laura Tingle's surname is because people like us get a tingle of excitement on seeing her name on an analytical article because we know it will be well worth reading. LOL Her clever use of words when she is all fired up about something is a joy to behold.

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Bugsy
Date: 19 Oct 23 - 01:19 AM

Steve Shaw, I'll pass on your regards when I see Bernard next, we catch up on a regular basis. I may have even met you when you came over in 2006, if Bernard had one of his "Get togethers" in the back garden.

CHeers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Oct 23 - 09:31 AM

Another chance to be better, lost.

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: JennieG
Date: 15 Oct 23 - 05:42 PM

I'm not surprised the "Yes" didn't vote didn't prevail. Very few referenda, since Federation, have done so. Much is the weeping, wailing, rending of garments and gnashing of teeth on social media since Saturday evening.....however, given the track record of past failed referenda it's probably not surprising.

Now would be a good time to sit down - all sides of parliament - and say, OK, where do we go from here? No blaming anyone, just taking stock of what has been done and what needs to be done, and how to go about it.

Not every who espoused a "No" vote was white, either, just for the record.

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Oct 23 - 06:12 PM

I'm reminded of the last line of Eric Bogle's "I Hate Wogs"

Advance Australia Backwards!

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Oct 23 - 03:04 PM

Thanks Sandra in Sydney for the explanation which helped my understanding (even if it was probably from the colonizers' point of view) <= JOKE!

I'm a big fan of the Antipodal countries, although I've chosen the house of Marmite.

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Oct 23 - 10:56 AM

The deliberate poverty of most of our native Americans should not be the model for Oz to copy.

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Oct 23 - 02:40 PM

Amnesty International is a remarkable organization for good.
Its members are better people than the bulk of all the politicians.

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Oct 23 - 06:51 PM

Hot Meat Pie song

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: rich-joy
Date: 21 Oct 23 - 06:20 AM

Yes, it’s been a rather depressing week for some of us Down Under.
I have the pleasure of living the last 30 years in “beautiful Queensland” – yes, the state (aka “The Deep North”) that holds the record for the highest “NO” vote = just a whisker under 69% as at Friday 20th Oct.
Even worse than West Aussie where I grew up – and I know my late Mum (born in Perth in 1923) would have been absolutely gutted by this “result”.
Aboriginal people have asked for precious little from we Incomers over the last 235+ years (and some folks have made the observation that that is exactly what they have gotten).

I’m not gonna post the rant I wrote during the week (not much point really), but I did find this news article very interesting, pointing to the infamous Noalition Backflip, where they realised it was critical that the Referendum should FAIL,
if the Libs&Nats were to have any chance of getting back up at the next election :
https://theconversation.com/the-political-subjugation-of-first-nations-peoples-is-no-longer-historical-legacy-213752

and also this observation on the pretty damn awful role of much of the Media :
How the media failed Australia in the Referendum 'campaign' (independentaustralia.net)

But the general public played a pretty awful role too.
Aussies, in general, like many simple pleasures in Life – see Donuel’s link posted above on the 17th Oct, to the adsong “…. We love football, meat pies, kangaroos, and Holden cars ….”
I recall reading somewhere that Aussie’s love of Novelty songs is second to none in the Western world, FFS!!!

We also love a good slogan. Anything to encapsulate the Bottom Line, without all that superfluous wording. Like “IF YOU DON’T KNOW – VOTE NO”.   Says it all. Cuts right through. None of this bloody elitist rubbish of “If you don’t know, educate yourself”!!!
Nup, No Further Thought necessary.

Now, where were we? Ah yes, “we love football, meat pies, kangaroos, and Holden cars …….”

And as for the not uncommon concept that The Australian Constitution is sacrosanct and shouldn’t be changed – Hell’s Bells!! (as my old dad would exclaim!!)   
Being written by a bunch of old white men living in a time when racism was the norm (no, not like today ??) and where The British Empire was still everything to people, and it was expected (hoped?) that “The Aborigines” would die out soon,
and that God’s in His Heaven and all’s right with the world – and Australia would, of course, be White.    A Sacred Cow indeed.

….. sigh …..


Enuff.


Bcoz as the Sydney Morning Herald's Peter Hartcher observed : “Many Indigenous Australians will take it personally. They shouldn’t. It’s just politics. ”

Jayzuz.


It’s enough to drive a woman to drink! as me old Mum often used to cry – though she never did imbibe :)

But I might go and partake right now ……..
R-J

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: rich-joy
Date: 21 Oct 23 - 07:36 PM

Yeah Helen, and I reckon it must be difficult being a good journalist with heart/compassion/empathy these days at the ABC, what with the thumb screws applied by particular Directors / Boards -
I recall an interesting article (somewhere!) in recent times, by the wonderful Laura Tingle, which hinted at the frustrating daily hoops they all had to jump through in the 'interests' of (Political) 'Balance'!!

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: rich-joy
Date: 21 Oct 23 - 10:27 PM

LoL, Helen! ??(now, how will this "Thumbs Up" emoji present on The Cat??!!)

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: rich-joy
Date: 21 Oct 23 - 10:28 PM

Ah, okay - Mudcat formatting says "when in doubt, print double question marks"!!!

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 15 Oct 23 - 08:18 AM

When the opposition Coalition decided to oppose the proposal, it was lost. No referendum to change the Constitution has ever succeeded if the opposition opposes it.
The Coalition of 2 conservative parties is often referred to as the Noalition. Fact checkers have listed the lies told by opponents of the proposal, but in the post-trumpian world, lies are so easily believed. And racism definitely played a part.

The brutal truth of the referendum result was that Yes campaign couldn’t cut through to a hesitant electorate analysis by Laura Tingle
(Laura Tingle is the chief political correspondent for nightly current affairs program 7.30. One of Australia's best journalists and top political analysts, she's spent most of her 35-year career in journalism reporting on Australian federal politics, and the country's major policy debates. A journalist, author and essayist, she was formerly the political editor of The Australian Financial Review.)

Northern Territory records No vote on Voice to Parliament, despite remote communities favouring Yes

Voice Referendum Live Results and Updates   Postal votes have yet to be counted

analysis The Voice to Parliament was an idea decades in the making. In mere hours, it was shattered ... In the immediate days that follow, there will be silence. Silence from Indigenous leaders who have entered a period of grieving.
There's no shortage of irony in the fact that after weeks — years — of white voices being some of the loudest and most toxic, they will again be the loudest in the aftermath. Especially with parliament returning for a sitting week only 48 hours later.
... The federal government will be preparing for a difficult week of questions over what happens next, now that the Voice to Parliament has been rejected at a referendum.
Nations leaders who've for years carried the weight on their shoulders, who faced racist attacks during the campaign, only to see their years of work be dismissed overnight.
Thomas Mayo, who said he was devastated, told the ABC that history would look poorly on opposition leader Peter Dutton and the No campaigners, who he accused of lying to the Australian people.
Academic Marcia Langton went further and dubbed reconciliation "dead", warned that it would be at least two decades before Australians were "capable of putting their colonial hatred behind them and acknowledging that we exist" and accused No campaigners of "poisoning" Australians against the Voice.

... There was no hiding the smiles on Peter Dutton and shadow Indigenous Australians spokeswoman Jacinta Nampijinpa Price's faces last night. In the world of Realpolitik, they are coming out on top
... In the meantime, the focus will shift to Dutton and how genuine he was in vowing to deliver "practical" outcomes to close the gap. His early comments last night shred the little hope there might have been for bi-partisanship.
He wants a royal commission into allegations of child sexual abuse in Indigenous communities and an audit of spending programs (many of which likely started under the Coalition, and yet this doesn't seem to rate a mention) ...

video of Straight From the Heart (the Makarrata Song) - Tripple Effect with Thomas Mayor

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 16 Oct 23 - 05:37 PM

The Voice campaign was infected with disinformation. Who's in charge of inoculating Australians against lies? After it was resoundingly rejected in Saturday's referendum, the Voice will never be heard by white Australia. For the great many First Nations people who voted for it, theirs is an unhappy burden: How will they explain to their children and grandchildren why the rest of Australia took the decision that it did?

This set-back to reconciliation, however, is all of ours to share. It will be picked at and picked at, and fester long after the confections of the campaign are forgotten. Only with the passage of time will scholars and historians give the plebiscite its true context.

Of the many lessons of Saturday's outcome, there is one which must be more urgently addressed. And that is our appetite for mistruths: Postal votes are a way for the Australian Electoral Commission to "rig the referendum". Pencils are distributed at polling stations so votes can be changed. Since 1973, the Constitution has been invalid, so the referendum is invalid too ...

The task is overwhelming. In the lead-up to the referendum, the AEC was being tagged in more than 100,000 social media posts a week.

It rebuffed claims the AEC was coercing Yes votes from dementia sufferers. When one bloke claimed "the fix is in" because his elderly mum (not on the roll) received a notice she had successfully voted, the AEC asked to see it: "We obviously don't send every voter a letter to simply confirm they've voted."

Elsewhere, you could only imagine the sigh emitted from the poor soul in Ekin-Smyth's team assigned to respond to a claim ballot papers carried a secret "Rothchild & Freemasons" imprint. "It's called the official mark," they wrote, dryly. "It's a requirement in the legislation." ... read on

Brexit's sludge of disinformation. First, the departure from the European Union cost the UK as much as 6 per cent of its overall economic value.

Second, we know that the 2016 Brexit referendum was polluted by a sludge of disinformation, much of which urged the UK to split from the continent.

It will never be known how many people were swayed by the lies. But bearing in mind the wafer-thin pro-Brexit majority — a margin of 1,269,501 in a country of 65 million people — it seems likely enough they made a material difference.    (read on)

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 17 Oct 23 - 06:48 AM

I'm not on facebook & other social media so I only see & hear sensible & fact checked info on ABC site & radio, or the Guardian site.

I occasionally check out a few political sites on facebook, like this one Political Cartoons Australia & this one Fiberal Party Of Australia so I have an idea of some of the crap going around, but I don't see it in my own Inbox.

I'm heading to the Kangaroo Valley Folk Festival this weekend where there is a Koori# venue & program, & I'll be surrounded by decent people.

sandra

# Koori is a demonym for Aboriginal Australians from a region that approximately corresponds to southern New South Wales and Victoria. The word derives from the Indigenous language Awabakal.

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Thompson
Date: 17 Oct 23 - 02:39 AM

At least there are five million decent people in Australia.

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Thompson
Date: 19 Oct 23 - 03:38 PM

Newie people are decent people.

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Oct 23 - 04:52 AM

Leasing Darwin port to a Chinese firm doesn't seem too bright.

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Oct 23 - 01:52 AM

Bernard’s a great guy, both funny and serious, seen him perform several times. His ‘Cricket Lovers’ never fails to ‘bring the house down’.

Subject: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Oct 23 - 07:24 AM

So the people of Australia have resoundingly defeated a proposal to give the indigenous people greater political rights in what seems to have been, from this distance, an ugly campaign. From the BBC report:

"Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people - who make up 3.8% of the nation's 26 million population - have inhabited Australia for about 60,000 years but are not mentioned in the constitution. They are, by most socio-economic measures, the most disadvantaged people in the country."

I heard one commentator saying that it showed that Australia is "a bigoted country." I suppose that remark reflected his frustration at the result of the referendum and I'm not even thinking of applying that to Oz in blanket fashion. But what a shame, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Oct 23 - 06:10 PM

I know I'm seeing this from a distance, but I do find it odd that you had a referendum about this in the first place. Don't we elect our representatives to make decisions of this ilk?

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Oct 23 - 06:31 PM

Hey, we went to Oz in 2006 to stay with Mrs Steve's old aunt and uncle in Perth and to see one of my old muckers who was in my class at Thornleigh in Bolton in the sixties. He's bit of a folkie, well-regarded in Oz and I think he runs choirs in Perth, stuff like that. His name is Bernard Carney and if you know him tell him that Steve Shaw mentioned him! We do exchange Christmas cards still and he and his wife Eleanor have stayed with us in Bude.

On that trip we did see some horrid discrimination against aboriginal people in Perth: one particular boatman on the Swan River ferry crossing refused to carry what seemed to us to be a peaceable family of native Australians. We also encountered a disturbingly condescending attitude to native Australians from otherwise well-meaning people, even in our own family. Just sayin'

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Oct 23 - 06:25 AM

We did go to their house, Bugsy, but it was just the four of us. I loved the fact that their house was agreeably homely in an English cottagey way, unlike most of the big showy sprawling bungalows that most of the Aussies we met lived in. Yep, give 'em our love!

Subject: RE: BS: A backward step in Australia
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Oct 23 - 04:02 PM

Bernard's story is that he upped with his guitar in the early seventies, went to Oz for a while, and never returned. I can't help thinking that he did it because he owed me a pint or three in the Two Tubs in Bury... :-)