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BS: Language Pet Peeves part II

Backwoodsman 19 Feb 24 - 11:36 AM
Mrrzy 19 Feb 24 - 08:26 AM
MaJoC the Filk 18 Feb 24 - 07:25 AM
Mrrzy 17 Feb 24 - 04:03 PM
Tattie Bogle 17 Feb 24 - 02:14 PM
MaJoC the Filk 17 Feb 24 - 11:57 AM
BobL 17 Feb 24 - 04:07 AM
Lighter 16 Feb 24 - 04:29 PM
Mrrzy 16 Feb 24 - 04:09 PM
Tattie Bogle 16 Feb 24 - 04:44 AM
meself 15 Feb 24 - 11:02 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Feb 24 - 10:12 AM
Doug Chadwick 15 Feb 24 - 09:36 AM
mayomick 15 Feb 24 - 09:05 AM
BobL 15 Feb 24 - 03:56 AM
Lighter 14 Feb 24 - 04:31 PM
MaJoC the Filk 14 Feb 24 - 10:22 AM
Mrrzy 13 Feb 24 - 07:14 PM
Tattie Bogle 13 Feb 24 - 12:22 PM
Mrrzy 12 Feb 24 - 05:35 PM
meself 07 Feb 24 - 02:20 PM
leeneia 04 Feb 24 - 11:29 PM
meself 02 Feb 24 - 03:58 PM
MaJoC the Filk 23 Jan 24 - 11:08 AM
Thompson 23 Jan 24 - 07:27 AM
Thompson 23 Jan 24 - 06:44 AM
MaJoC the Filk 22 Jan 24 - 10:01 AM
meself 21 Jan 24 - 08:50 PM
MaJoC the Filk 21 Jan 24 - 07:43 AM
Lighter 20 Jan 24 - 10:57 AM
Stilly River Sage 20 Jan 24 - 10:23 AM
Backwoodsman 20 Jan 24 - 09:22 AM
Dave the Gnome 20 Jan 24 - 04:30 AM
Dave the Gnome 19 Jan 24 - 11:53 AM
meself 19 Jan 24 - 11:19 AM
Stilly River Sage 19 Jan 24 - 11:16 AM
Dave the Gnome 19 Jan 24 - 10:47 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Jan 24 - 10:32 AM
Mrrzy 19 Jan 24 - 10:01 AM
Stilly River Sage 18 Jan 24 - 06:04 PM
Joe_F 18 Jan 24 - 05:58 PM
Backwoodsman 18 Jan 24 - 02:58 AM
Doug Chadwick 17 Jan 24 - 06:50 PM
Dave the Gnome 17 Jan 24 - 06:38 PM
Doug Chadwick 17 Jan 24 - 05:15 PM
Dave the Gnome 17 Jan 24 - 05:12 PM
Stilly River Sage 17 Jan 24 - 05:09 PM
Rain Dog 17 Jan 24 - 04:12 PM
Dave the Gnome 17 Jan 24 - 01:52 PM
Thompson 17 Jan 24 - 01:44 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Feb 24 - 11:36 AM

Guilty, Mrrzy!


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Feb 24 - 08:26 AM

Navalny's widow. Not hus wife. His widow. Stop robbing her of his death.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 18 Feb 24 - 07:25 AM

Using "as" in that context is also counterproductive. If they really want to save horizontal space and ink, a comma would serve better as the required hiccup in the cadence, however jarring to those of us who dislike seeing comma abuse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Feb 24 - 04:03 PM

As is weird. We get After, as in 2 people killed after their plane crashes. Like they survived the crash itself, only to be murdered, later.

As would actually work, in those instances.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 17 Feb 24 - 02:14 PM

The headline writers of our local online "rag" - Edinburgh Live - are very fond of using "as" in a rather odd way, which goes against cause and effect. e.g.

Missing child and teenage vanish AS Police launch urgent search (and in this instance there's also the issue of the fact that the child and teenager are already missing before they vanished!)

Edinburgh rush hour collision blocks road AS traffic tails back (did the tailback cause the collision?)

Car ploughs into house on Scottish street AS emergency services rush to the scene (so they knew this was going to happen?)


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 17 Feb 24 - 11:57 AM

> Regarding Floor/Ground you can also, metaphorically,
> "hit the deck".

Especially if you're all at sea. (In circuit diagrams, "earth" and "chassis" have different symbols.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: BobL
Date: 17 Feb 24 - 04:07 AM

Regarding Floor/Ground you can also, metaphorically, "hit the deck".


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Feb 24 - 04:29 PM

Merriam-Webster:

"back-formation n. ...a word formed by subtraction of a real or supposed affix from an already existing longer word (such as burgle from burglar)"


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Feb 24 - 04:09 PM

I did not use back-formation incorrectly, fyi.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 16 Feb 24 - 04:44 AM

@ Lighter:
Then there are those who talk about the “HIV virus” - effectively means they are saying virus twice.
And “a bacteria” - the singular is bacterium.
Another common medical one - “prostrate” when they mean “prostate”.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: meself
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 11:02 AM

Here's one I've noticed only in the last, say, ten years or so, particularly in British sources, but now and then from the US as well, and that is, use of 'floor' for 'ground'; perhaps this usage goes 'way back ... ? To my mind, a 'floor' is inside a building, and 'the ground' is that flat surface in the great outdoors - so if you got out of your car and the cop/officer/constable pushed you down, you fell on the 'ground', not on the 'floor'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 10:12 AM

‘Police Officer’ is in common use in my part of the British Backwoods and has been for many years. Similarly ‘policeman/policewoman’, and ‘Bobby’. Like Doug above, I don’t regard it as an Americanism.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 09:36 AM

Do they now use the word “officer” in the UK to describe their police?

I have gown up with 'police officer' being a perfectly normal, general term for all ranks of the British police. I certainly don't consider it as an Americanism. 'Cops', on the other hand, does not figure highly in my vocabulary and is not a word I would use within the hearing of a police officer.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: mayomick
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 09:05 AM

UK police “officers”
I saw this today in a British newspaper- a witness account of police searching a tube train for a suspect

“ Officers told us to move down the train away from the carriage……..then an officer came into our carriage and shouted for the train manager to get the doors open. ………We were directed up towards platform 14 instead of towards the barriers, where there must have been between 20-30 officers present..”

Do they now use the word “officer” in the UK to describe their police? When I was growing up there in the fifties and sixties we never referred to cops as "officers" . I remember the police at the time didn’t like the term saying it was an Americanism and that they should be addressed as “constables” .


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: BobL
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 03:56 AM

Or "quantum leap" for "paradigm shift".


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Lighter
Date: 14 Feb 24 - 04:31 PM

What bugs me is the blithe and confident misuse of technical terms.

Like "virus" for a bacterial infection.

Or "euphemism" for "simple synonym."

Or "misnomer" for "misconception."

Or "back-formation" for "derivative."

Oxford has "worthiness" from 1372. It's been thought acceptable by Chaucer, Shakespeare, Hobbes, Wordsworth, and many others.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 14 Feb 24 - 10:22 AM

English is a wonderful language: you can verb anything.

(Twenty bonus marks for correctly attributing this quote.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Feb 24 - 07:14 PM

Also unnecessary backformations.

Worth, noun. Worthy, adjective. Worthiness, useless backformation.

Health, healthy, healthiness. Bah!


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 13 Feb 24 - 12:22 PM

Not read this thread for ages, but had a few chuckles on the way!

One thing that bugs me, is when people invent new words, often by turning perfectly good nouns into verbs. The latest new one came with a recent update to my iPhone - Journal: ok so far, but then "what are you journaling today?" (only one L as it's American too!) Journaling - I ask you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Feb 24 - 05:35 PM

I am reminded of The only person on the scene missing was the Jack of Hearts...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: meself
Date: 07 Feb 24 - 02:20 PM

Another one from radio news: the door came off mid-flight because "the bolts that held the door in were not installed."


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: leeneia
Date: 04 Feb 24 - 11:29 PM

clever
never
sever
beverage
lever


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: meself
Date: 02 Feb 24 - 03:58 PM

I just heard on the TV news that Joni Mitchell "will make a surprise appearance at the Grammys" .....


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 23 Jan 24 - 11:08 AM

> Surely leverage is when you let the hare sit?

Nah: that's the levee, but only if it's standing up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Thompson
Date: 23 Jan 24 - 07:27 AM

"At this point in time…" What's wrong with "Now…"


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Thompson
Date: 23 Jan 24 - 06:44 AM

Surely leverage is when you let the hare sit?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 22 Jan 24 - 10:01 AM

New peeve: the abusage of "leverage", esp in non-financial contexts*. It's easy to spot when English reporters have been miseducated by listening to too many Left-Pondian financial experts, as they pronounce it "levverage", rather than "leeverage" as Dr Johnson intended.

* In financial jargon, it very specifically refers to buying a firm with its own debt, eg the foghorn formerly known as Twitter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: meself
Date: 21 Jan 24 - 08:50 PM

Heard on the evening news, re: an immigrant healthcare worker: "She got an undergraduate degree in Nursing and a Ph.D. in Africa."


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 21 Jan 24 - 07:43 AM

DtG: When did useful hints and tips become "life hacks"?

When the whizz kids of the City of London let their work jargon spill out in coffee houses. Personally, as someone who used to code for a living (often having to butcher somebody else's kludgeware* into something sensible in the process), I'm glad the positive senses of "hack" are being noticed again.

* Kluge: a crock which works. The English spell it as "kludge", which comes from "kludgie" -> midden.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Lighter
Date: 20 Jan 24 - 10:57 AM

Then there's "as far as X" in place of "as far as X is concerned."


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jan 24 - 10:23 AM

I guess "useful hints" sounds too 1950s, but then everything that existed back then is now the hugely popular Midcentury Modern (used to be referred to as Danish Modern as far as furniture.)

What goes around comes around.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jan 24 - 09:22 AM

It’s tough for us Boomers trying to keep up with Gen-Z, Dave! :-0


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Jan 24 - 04:30 AM

When did useful hints and tips become "life hacks"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 11:53 AM

Coup de grace is French for mow the lawn...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: meself
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 11:19 AM

"Breaking News" used to be reserved for some supposedly exciting news story that was just "breaking". Then it was used for any "breaking" news story. Now "breaking news" means ... news.

A few other, um - "developments": used to be a "coup" required completion to be such, but apparently it is too much work to say "attempted coup" or "failed coup" (OTOH, I'm happy to go along with "coup" in place of "coup d'etat", so who am I to gripe?); an "elite" once was a certain group or class of people - now it's an individual member of such a group or class; a "conspiracy theory" has become "a conspiracy".... I blame all those TV political commentators are so busy trying to talk over each other that they have no time to think about what their words actually mean.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 11:16 AM

On my side of town it isn't just English, so I shop in grocery stores and supermercados. The huge stores like Target and Walmart are more than groceries, so they tend to call themselves "super centers." Costco and Sam's Club are warehouse stores. So it looks like the closest to "market" around here is the mercado. Most stores are known by name, so I would never say "I'm going to the supermarket" - it's "I'm going to Kroger" (or Albertson or Aldi or Fiesta).


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 10:47 AM

In addition it is patently obvious that Supermarkets are not markets but if you see something advertised as a market you could end up traveling to see an array of independent traders and finding a dingy corner shop with a few baskets of mouldy veg outside!


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 10:32 AM

Well large supermarkets are also called ‘Superstores’ here in the UK. Prolly in the US too??


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 10:01 AM

To me, a supermarket is a store, not a market! Who has to make sense.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jan 24 - 06:04 PM

I'm not a coffee drinker, and when I make tea I brew loose tea, although these days it is a somewhat disappointing brew since I've had to give up caffeine.

In a change of peeves, I find some of the news channels on cable to overuse the term "breaking news" - if I leave the channel on in the background and hear three different program hosts discuss the exact same "breaking news" it is long since "breaking" and is now just "news."


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Joe_F
Date: 18 Jan 24 - 05:58 PM

Doug Chadwick: I was once in a store such as you describe, which called itself, not a mini-market, but a superette. I admired that: an augmentative prefix, a diminutive suffix, and nothing in between! One would expect such a word to cancel itself out, perhaps with a soft click.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Jan 24 - 02:58 AM

”Stilly. In my (limited) experience of the USA, they generally cannot make tea there anyway. A cup of warm water with a tea bag to dunk in it just isn't tea :-)”

Well at least we can agree on that, Dave! And what they call ‘coffee’ is like watter bewitched when compared with Italian and French coffee… ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 17 Jan 24 - 06:50 PM

It doesn't have to be rational.

Just pointing it out! It could reduce the stress in your life if you were able to come to terms with it.
;-)

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 24 - 06:38 PM

It's a peeve, Doug. It doesn't have to be rational.

Stilly. In my (limited) experience of the USA, they generally cannot make tea there anyway. A cup of warm water with a tea bag to dunk in it just isn't tea :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 17 Jan 24 - 05:15 PM

DtG,
Do you accept 'supermarket' as a valid name for a large store where customers select items from the shelves and then pay for them at a checkout? If so, then why shouldn't a small shop which uses the same system describe itself as a mini-market?

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 24 - 05:12 PM

Why have they got euphoniums surrounding Kate's surgery? I would have thought that they would not want a fuss

Oh, hang on...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jan 24 - 05:09 PM

A regular language debate in my family that played out again at lunch:

I mention an herbal tea with mint and fennel.
"It's really a tisane, not tea."
"You know what I mean." (And I'm the English major!)

Camellia sinensis is the plant that is grown and picked at so many stages and elevations to create many grades of black tea or green tea, oolong, or white tea. Chai. (If you say "chai tea" it is tea tea, too much tea!) Tea being synonymous with the Camellia s. product. Herbal teas don't contain Camellia anything, so technically are a tisane or an infusion. They aren't made with tea leaves.

But it's too late for that argument to win. Packages around the world say "herbal tea" and note "no caffeine" and have no Camellia in them. The "brand" tea isn't a proprietary eponym like Kleenex or Bandaid or Xerox or Aspirin, tea these days means just about any cup of hot water in which leaves or herbs are soaked to create a drink that isn't coffee.

Off my soap box. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Rain Dog
Date: 17 Jan 24 - 04:12 PM

We can all choose to ignore posts from those who annoy us.

Some seem to find that hard to do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 24 - 01:52 PM

Market here tends to be a specific area with stalls where independent traders can set up.

Bloomin' icy here too. I ended up flat on my back on our drive earlier! OK but for a sore back and bruised ego :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Thompson
Date: 17 Jan 24 - 01:44 PM

I don't mind market - it has different meanings in America (big shop) and Europe (road full of artisans selling fresh food).
Bully used to be a term meaning excellent around the turn of the 19/20 century.
Crikey but it's icy here; we're hovering between -5º and 0º. I have a big hooded fleecy cloak thing but it only covers the top half, and it's the bottom half that freezes most.


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