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BS: Language Pet Peeves part II

Mrrzy 04 Apr 24 - 08:30 PM
Lighter 04 Apr 24 - 02:01 PM
meself 04 Apr 24 - 11:20 AM
Mrrzy 02 Apr 24 - 04:05 PM
leeneia 01 Apr 24 - 09:09 PM
Mrrzy 01 Apr 24 - 10:59 AM
Backwoodsman 28 Mar 24 - 10:57 AM
MaJoC the Filk 28 Mar 24 - 10:42 AM
Mrrzy 28 Mar 24 - 10:37 AM
Lighter 27 Mar 24 - 07:50 AM
Doug Chadwick 27 Mar 24 - 07:24 AM
Backwoodsman 27 Mar 24 - 07:11 AM
Doug Chadwick 27 Mar 24 - 05:56 AM
Backwoodsman 27 Mar 24 - 05:36 AM
Thompson 27 Mar 24 - 04:53 AM
Mrrzy 25 Mar 24 - 03:33 PM
Lighter 22 Mar 24 - 05:33 PM
Lighter 22 Mar 24 - 05:05 PM
Manitas_at_home 22 Mar 24 - 04:30 PM
Lighter 22 Mar 24 - 03:49 PM
gillymor 22 Mar 24 - 02:38 PM
meself 22 Mar 24 - 01:27 PM
Lighter 22 Mar 24 - 08:10 AM
Donuel 22 Mar 24 - 06:30 AM
Mrrzy 21 Mar 24 - 10:44 AM
MaJoC the Filk 11 Mar 24 - 09:33 AM
Doug Chadwick 10 Mar 24 - 01:17 PM
MaJoC the Filk 10 Mar 24 - 09:49 AM
MaJoC the Filk 10 Mar 24 - 06:53 AM
Thompson 09 Mar 24 - 04:20 AM
Lighter 01 Mar 24 - 09:59 AM
Mrrzy 01 Mar 24 - 08:28 AM
Mrrzy 29 Feb 24 - 09:55 AM
meself 25 Feb 24 - 09:46 PM
Tattie Bogle 25 Feb 24 - 06:52 PM
Mrrzy 25 Feb 24 - 02:04 AM
Thompson 24 Feb 24 - 03:07 PM
Lighter 24 Feb 24 - 03:06 PM
Mrrzy 24 Feb 24 - 03:05 PM
Backwoodsman 24 Feb 24 - 06:22 AM
Tattie Bogle 24 Feb 24 - 05:14 AM
Backwoodsman 24 Feb 24 - 02:29 AM
Mrrzy 23 Feb 24 - 09:56 PM
Doug Chadwick 22 Feb 24 - 11:01 AM
mayomick 22 Feb 24 - 08:26 AM
meself 20 Feb 24 - 03:11 PM
Mrrzy 20 Feb 24 - 02:30 PM
meself 20 Feb 24 - 12:18 PM
Mrrzy 20 Feb 24 - 08:01 AM
Mrrzy 19 Feb 24 - 05:53 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Apr 24 - 08:30 PM

What about the stupidity of the American people?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Lighter
Date: 04 Apr 24 - 02:01 PM

Compare G. W. Bush's "misunderestimate."


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: meself
Date: 04 Apr 24 - 11:20 AM

Heard on local radio this morning: "It is almost impossible to understate his contribution to the world of comedy" ......


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Apr 24 - 04:05 PM

I looked it up. A raid is "sudden" so no, it can't last weeks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: leeneia
Date: 01 Apr 24 - 09:09 PM

"ax" (for ask) has become a part of the language for African-Americans, nothing to do with laziness.

Nah, I have heard white people from the south say ax. One of them was my own sister-in-law.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Apr 24 - 10:59 AM

I keep reading about that hospital destroyed "after a 2-week raid" - isn't a raid a quick action? Somehow, if it lasted weeks, it wasn't a raid, to me. Attack, onslaught, not siege which lasts but you aren't in the place you are besieging, so, what? I don't think raid is the mot juste, here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Mar 24 - 10:57 AM

Heard about "Travel Reshtrictions" this morning from the BBC Radio 2 Traffic Nincompoop. WTAF?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 28 Mar 24 - 10:42 AM

> a book called How to be Top

There was a similar fashion for using "rules OK" in headlines (usually in the Sun iirc), which only died the death once some comedian or other pushed out "Dyslexia lures KO". They'd never get away with that death-stroke these days.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Mar 24 - 10:37 AM

I haven't noticed Sht for St, but in Ireland I heard Chewsday, which comes after Monday, Chune, which you sing, and Jew, which forms droplets on grass in the early morning...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Lighter
Date: 27 Mar 24 - 07:50 AM

When I was in Edinburgh a dozen years ago, I heard it a lot.

Listen closely to "Dr. No," etc., and you'll hear Sean Connery saying it regularly.

In my experience, it isn't as, er, "pronounced" as strongly as the letters "sh" might suggest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 27 Mar 24 - 07:24 AM

If I listen to the radio at all, which I rarely do, then it's generally Radio 4. There is far more in the 'cheery' chat in between the music, on Radio 2, to annoy me, than the way they pronounce "st"/"sht".

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Mar 24 - 07:11 AM

You need to listen to BBC Radio 2 Doug. They’re all doing it on there, and it’s spilling over to BBC TV Channels too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 27 Mar 24 - 05:56 AM

pronouncing 'st' as 'sht'

Sean Connery was the first one I noticed doing
it. Other than him, I can't say that I've noticed it much.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Mar 24 - 05:36 AM

Talking of fashions in language (and my gripe is about pronunciation rather than actual vocabulary), am I the only one of our UK-contingent who has noticed the current fashion for pronouncing 'st' as 'sht' - so 'student' becomes 'shtudent', or 'street' becomes 'shtreet'? I've recently heard 'superstore' pronounced 'supershtore', amongst many annoying others.

It seems to be a BBC-driven phenomenon - the first offender I noticed indulging in this verbal mangling was that Richie character who presents the traffic bulletins (he also pronounces 'bus' as 'buzz' but, having worked with a guy from Dudley for a number of years, I'm used to that one). Unfortunately, 'sht' seems to have become the widely accepted pronunciation and I'm probably just a moaning old wrinkly, but it really boils my piss!


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Thompson
Date: 27 Mar 24 - 04:53 AM

Has anyone brought up* the overuse of the term "key"? I can see why newspapers use it instead of "vital" in headlines (shortage-of-ink error), but I find use of it in speech to be unforgivably jarring, especially when overuse makes it a stand-in for "important", "noteworthy" or "interesting". There's so many "key" issues these days that there's no room in the door for anything else but locks.

"Key" is the 2024 equivalent of the 1960s "top" - everyone was a top scientist, a top politician, etc - until some comedian brought out a book called How to be Top, when it gradually faded away.

Words as analogies have these fashions. A few years ago "relish" was the trend, and it really annoyed me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Mar 24 - 03:33 PM

I shall uae the term crash blossom going forward.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Lighter
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 05:33 PM

"Trump frustrated as bond deadline nears and key bacteria identified in colon cancer cases."

There's now a name for these syntactically ambiguous sentences. They're called "crash blossoms."

Why? According to Merriam-Webster:

"While crash blossoms themselves are as old as newspapers, the term dates back to 2009, when editor Mike O'Connell saw an ambiguous headline that appeared in the newspaper Japan Today— 'Violinist Linked to JAL Crash Blossoms' —and wondered in the Testy Copy Editors forum, 'What's a crash blossom?'"


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Lighter
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 05:05 PM

Interesting to read that "aks" was "down to 1600 the regular literary form."

So according to those of a mightily prescriptive bent, "aks" should be correct, and "ask" is an illiterate variant.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 04:30 PM

AKS.
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/12074/why-is-ask-sometimes-pronounced-aks


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Lighter
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 03:49 PM

Interestingly, Oxford offers no examples, ever, of "ask" being used for "ax."


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: gillymor
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 02:38 PM

In the U.S. "ax" (for ask) has become a part of the language for African-Americans, nothing to do with laziness.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: meself
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 01:27 PM

"Lazy American mouths" continue pronunciations that were in use long before English-speakers came to 'America'. What the heck is wrong with them?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Lighter
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 08:10 AM

There are three sounds in both "ask" and "ax."

So it isn't laziness. It's a reversal of the order of the sounds. This is called "metathesis."

Oxford shows similar forms in use since Old English (before 900 AD). Here's a good example from the Coverdale Bible of 1535:

"Axe and it shall be given you."

(The first published English translation of the Old and New Testaments, predecessor of King James Version.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 06:30 AM

Lazy American mouths say Ax instead of ask.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Mar 24 - 10:44 AM

NBC headline
Trump frustrated as bond deadline nears and key bacteria identified in colon cancer cases: Morning Rundown

I just bet he cares deeply about bacteria


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 11 Mar 24 - 09:33 AM

Thanks for the disambiguation, Doug: I bow to your superior knowledge.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 10 Mar 24 - 01:17 PM

someone being "detained", then "arrested". I'll check, but be formally arrested, methinks there needs to be one or more specific charges, and the defendant must then go before the Beak. One can instead (or first) be detained, which (like being chucked in the cooler after an excessively good celebration) need not necessarily lead to a charge.

My understanding of the situation in the UK is that there are three circumstances where someone can be detained before arrest: stop and search; to prevent an imminent breach of the peace; search of property. Otherwise, at formal arrest must be made and the arrested person advised of their legal rights. They may then be detained without charge for a limited period, normally 24 hours, although exceptionally, this may be extended to 36 hours by the station Superintendent, or 72 hours under a magistrate's warrant. The decision to charge rests with the Crown Prosecution Service.


DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 10 Mar 24 - 09:49 AM

> someone was arrested "after" a drug bust

Bingo! this just seen on the the Beeb's Red Button: someone being "detained", then "arrested". I'll check, but to be formally arrested, methinks there needs to be one or more specific charges, and the defendant must then go before the Beak. One can instead (or first) be detained, which (like being chucked in the cooler after an excessively good celebration) need not necessarily lead to a charge.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 10 Mar 24 - 06:53 AM

Has anyone brought up* the overuse of the term "key"? I can see why newspapers use it instead of "vital" in headlines (shortage-of-ink error), but I find use of it in speech to be unforgivably jarring, especially when overuse makes it a stand-in for "important", "noteworthy" or "interesting". There's so many "key" issues these days that there's no room in the door for anything else but locks.

* I use the term most carefully. Sound effect to (dis)taste.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Mar 24 - 04:20 AM

People have discarded "whoever" and are using "whomsoever", weirdly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Lighter
Date: 01 Mar 24 - 09:59 AM

Of course surprises are to expected.

Specific surprises are not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Mar 24 - 08:28 AM

Heard on NPR

surprises are to b expected


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Feb 24 - 09:55 AM

Again, someone was arrested "after" a drug bust. Like, in a completely unrelated other bust?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: meself
Date: 25 Feb 24 - 09:46 PM

No, no - you just hold them in your hand and warm them up. The term 'cooked' is being used loosely.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 25 Feb 24 - 06:52 PM

Then there are the “hand-cooked” crisps (chips to those in the US) - as if you’d plunge your hand into a vat of boiling oil?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Feb 24 - 02:04 AM

Ok... every car on this lot was hand-selected.

What, like a flower? How do you HAND-select a CAR?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Thompson
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 03:07 PM

In Ireland, cops are the shades.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 03:06 PM

Hard to believe, but here are two English words that are essentially as thoroughly synonymous as "gorse" and furze."

Not very exciting though:

"inalienable"

"unalienable."

Semantically identical and orthographically nearly so - just one letter different out of eleven.

The only other difference, if it is a difference, is that the Declaration of Independence uses "unalienable," though most people (who'd be unlikely to use either one in a sentence) think it's "inalienable."

Oxford shows "inalienable" from 1647 and "unalienable" from 1611.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 03:05 PM

Sic'm, Fang!


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 06:22 AM

Ah yes, I forgot ‘The Fuzz’! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 05:14 AM

Another nickname is “the fuzz”, which I gather is derived from “the Feds”. Many years ago, one of Edinburgh’s folk clubs took place in the Police social club premises, so it was referred to as The Fuzz Folk Club. Then Ian Green, who founded Greentrax recordings after he retired from being a serving police offer, wrote his autobiography, which he entitled “Fuzz to Folk”. (None of this is particularly peeving, by the way!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 02:29 AM

My BIL (Mrs Backwoodsperson’s brother) has been a police officer all of his working life - in the RAF Police, Cambridgeshire Police and, for the past 17-or-so years, in the Toronto ON Force - and he sometimes refers to himself as a ‘cop’. But AFAIC that’s his right. I always describe him as a police officer, but I don’t imagine he would feel offended if I called him a ‘cop’.

In my part of the Backwoods, the usual offensive terms for a police officer are ‘rozzer’, ‘PC Plod’, and ‘pig’. I’m sure there may be others, especially amongst young people, although why anyone feels the need to insult men and women who are doing a difficult, stressful, and often dirty, job is beyond my ken.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Feb 24 - 09:56 PM

My kids used to go running up to their favorite cop yelling Hey, look, it's our favorite cop! He thought it was funny, which made me realize it was, actually, disrespectful.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 22 Feb 24 - 11:01 AM

Doug, in my experience police officers don't mind being called cops

Maybe so, but I wouldn't be comfortable using it in a situation where police officers were carrying out official duties. In a more informal setting, though, I wouldn't be too fussed about its use.

Vocab.com gives it as:-
"Cop is an informal, somewhat derogatory word for a police officer."

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: mayomick
Date: 22 Feb 24 - 08:26 AM

Doug, in my experience police officers don't mind being called cops - so long as the word is not used offensively .I've looked up the etymology of cop and there's no agreed origin but I wouldn't be surprised if the word wasn't first used by police officers themselves


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: meself
Date: 20 Feb 24 - 03:11 PM

"I want to go visit my ex long ago ... "

I believe the speaker wants to go back in time, and visit their ex, presumably before they were an ex, and before they were ill - after all, isn't that the kind of thing we all want to do now and then?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Feb 24 - 02:30 PM

Long-ago ex, maybe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: meself
Date: 20 Feb 24 - 12:18 PM

Hmmm - I wonder if "my ex long ago" is something like "my used-to-be", as you find in the old Blues songs ... ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Feb 24 - 08:01 AM

Then again, WashPo has this:

Ask Amy: I want to go visit my ex long ago who is ill


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves part II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Feb 24 - 05:53 PM

WashPo has updated their headlines too!


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