Memories of Margaret Barry (1917-1989)

Subject: Memories of Margaret Barry
From: GUEST,Alan Woods, ITMA
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 09:17 AM

Hi,

My name is Alan Woods.
I work for the Irish Traditional Music Archive (ITMA)in Dublin.

I'm currently doing some research for ITMA on the Irish singer, Margaret Barry.

I'm interested to find archival resources related to Margaret Barry, and musicians she performed with over the years such as Michael Gorman and Maura Ní Chatháin O'Malley.

I'm also interested to hear personal memories and stories of Margaret.

As many of you will know, Margaret started out as a street singer, before being encountered by collectors such as Alan Lomax and Peter Kennedy. She made a number of commerical recordinds and toured extensively in Ireland, the UK and the U.S.A.

She covered a lot of ground and met a lot people!

I would love to hear people's memories of Margaret, or suggestions of people of interest to talk to who knew Margaret, and potential sources of archival material, whether it be audio/video/printed material.

I look forward to your replies.

Thanks,
Alan

ps: I'm looking for contact details for Bill Leader, and Bob Davenport.
If anybody has contacts for them and would be happy to share them with me by email please, that would be much appreciated!

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 10:50 AM

I have a tape of Felix Doran, partly of a session with Barry, Michael Gorman and others (can't remember straight off what's on it exactly. it's been a while). It's big, noisy etc but it if it's of interest and you don't have it already, you're welcome to it.

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 12:29 PM

i suggest you contact Reg Hall

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry
From: GUEST,Jim Bainbridge
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 12:29 PM

Hi Alan,
             hope all goes well for you these days- happy days from Leitrim! I've emailed Bill Leader and I'll send it on with his permission if he's OK with it- told him what you're doing- keep well & warm!

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 12:34 PM

Presumably you only want stories that portray her in a favourable way

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry
From: GUEST,Alan Woods, ITMA
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 01:13 PM

Hi all,
Thanks for the replies.

Peter,
I would be interested to hear that recording.
I'd have to double check but I don't think we have a copy of it in ITMA.

Sandman,
I know Reg and have consulted his book 'A Few Tunes of Good Music' which has multiple references to Margaret Barry.
He's on the list of people to contact very soon re. Margaret.

I'll take the stories as they come, favourable/unfavourable.
Through my research thus far I have come across a broad range of opinions and portrayals.
Everybody's opinion is valid and of interest to me for the purposes of the research.

Jim,
Good to hear from you. I hope you're keeping well.
Thanks for messaging Bill.

Thanks all,
Alan

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry
From: GUEST,Peter Labsn
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 01:38 PM

Alan, I will email

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 05:51 PM

David Attenborough tells an amusing story about his days at BBC television in the early days running a folk programme when Alan Lomax persuaded him to book Margaret. If you don't have it already I can probably find it in my files.
I do have access to two or three photographs too taken in London in her later years but they were taken by someone else.

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 05:55 PM

Thanks Peter re. sending on the recording!

Hootenanny,
I have seen the story of Margaret's 1953 appearance on the BBC in Attenborough's Memoir 'Life on Air'. Thanks though!

I would be interested to see the photos if possible, please!?
My email is included in my original post at the top of this thread.

Thanks,
Alan

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry (1917-1989)
From: Thomas Stern
Date: 11 Jan 24 - 10:27 PM

Hello Alan,
I've e-mailed some information.
Peter Johnson's memoir THE LAUGHING LESSON contains a photo (p.184)
and a short recollection (p.276). Unfortunately no index, so may
be additional bits.....
some of Peters concert productions were recorded and are archived
at UMD (University of Massachusetts Dartmounth). They list 2 tapes,
one undated, and one from 21 March 1975.
Margaret spent some time with JACK WHYTE in Dorchester - anyone have
contact for him ?????
Perhaps Norman Kennedy ?????
We think she appeared at festivals in MARIPOSA (Canada), iseteddfod,
NY Folklore Center, Tri-Works (New Bedford), Fox Hollow, Cafe Lena and
many others -   anyone remember her at festivals they attended, or know of recordings of her at such venues ???? Thanks.

Thomas.

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry (1917-1989)
From: GUEST,Alan Woods, ITMA
Date: 12 Jan 24 - 05:20 AM

Hi Thomas,

That's great, thanks very much.
I just read your emails and will reply directly via email also.

*

We just ordered a copy of Peter's book for the ITMA collection recently, so hopefully soon I'll be able to check through it for references to Margaret.

I had spotted the Peter Johnson Collection in UMass Dartmouth.
I plan to contact them re. possibly listening to the recordings.

I saw information here on another thread related to Peter Johnson and his connection with Margaret.
In a post going back a good few years, Peter's son posted an email address which I will use to try and contact Peter directly.

If anybody has a current contact for Peter which they could share I would be delighted to receive it via email.

*

Re. venues/festivals that Margaret played in the States:

Café Lena's website has an index of performances at the folk club over the years.
I can see from that index that Margaret performed there on at least three occasions in the 1970s.

I'm going to contact them also to see if any of those performances where recorded.

*

I will reply more in depth via email!

Thanks very much!
Alan

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry (1917-1989)
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 12 Jan 24 - 11:31 AM

Re photographs of Margaret Barry. Are these wanted for a book?

How would you propose to use them? They are not mine but I can pass on the request to the photographer who owns the copyright.

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry (1917-1989)
From: Thompson
Date: 12 Jan 24 - 12:55 PM

What's the amusing story?

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry (1917-1989)
From: GUEST,Jon Dudley
Date: 14 Jan 24 - 06:17 AM

Re. Alan's posting referring to Margaret's appearance in a David Attenborough programme in '53...was this the one where she appeared with Bob Roberts and Bob Copper (and maybe more)? What she said upon her entrance to the studio was priceless...

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry (1917-1989)
From: Thomas Stern
Date: 14 Jan 24 - 08:31 PM

There is an excellent Margaret Barry thread on mudcat:
https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=94601

and a wonderful portrait of her as street singer 1945:
https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=98908

Thomas.

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry (1917-1989)
From: Thomas Stern
Date: 14 Jan 24 - 09:06 PM

The Guardian - 18 Jan 2017
Margaret Barry: wild Irish woman of the British folk scene
by Colin Irwin

Margaret Barry: wild Irish woman of the British folk scene

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry (1917-1989)
From: GUEST,Alan Woods, ITMA
Date: 15 Jan 24 - 06:07 AM

@Hootenanny

I'm working on a lecture/presentation about Margaret, and her life in music. If i did wish to feature any of the photographs, I would be happy to contact the photographer/rights holder to clear permission with them.

As mentioned above, I work for the Irish Traditional Music Archive in Dublin. As much as possible, we always aim to clear permissions on any material we publish online or present publicly.

I would love to see the photos!
Thanks!

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry (1917-1989)
From: GUEST,Alan Woods, ITMA
Date: 15 Jan 24 - 06:40 AM

@Thomas Stern

Thanks Thomas!
I had seen those threads and newspaper articles.

However though, somehow the first time I went through the Margaret Barry thread, I missed about the post by Jean Ritchie, or later forgot about it. It's a lovely post by Jean to have on record.

The account of Margaret performing at the fair in Shercock in 1946, (although written at a much later date), is the most detailed early account of Margaret I have seen thus far.
It seems the first place that story was published was in The Anglo Celt newspaper (21 December 2000), and then was reprinted in the Breffni Blue journal in 2001.

I have found a 1939 newspaper reference to a female street singer matching Margaret's description (big voice, accompanying herself on banjo), but the singer in the article is unnamed.
I think it's very likely to have been Margaret Barry but hard to confirm it 100%.

There are some other brief references by people who remember seeing/meeting Margaret in the '30s and '40s in Dublin, but the Shercock Story seems to be the most detailed written account of Margaret pre 1950s.

The interviews recorded by Alan Lomax with Margaret in the 1950s, of course recount earlier times.

*

Thanks for your continued help!
Alan

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry (1917-1989)
From: GUEST,Alan Woods, ITMA
Date: 15 Jan 24 - 07:19 AM

@John Dudley

Margaret's appearance on the BBC in 1953, was on a series called 'Song Hunter' which was produced by a young David Attenborough and hosted by Alan Lomax.

Margaret appeared on an episode which also featured Jeannie Robertson, and a third female singer, whom I haven't identified yet.

It's of this appearance on the BBC, that David Attenborough recounts in his memoir, 'Life on Air'.

*

I'd love to hear the story about the performance with Bob Roberts and Bob Copper!

Thanks,
Alan

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry (1917-1989)
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 24 - 12:41 PM

Re, Alan Woods' comment. Bob Copper (who was my father-in-law) was spending quite a bit of time at the BBC in those days prior to his being taken on together with Seamus Ennis, Peter Kennedy and others as part of Brian George's brilliant BBC song and dialect collecting scheme - I believe Alan Lomax was there at that time too. For one 'Song Hunter' programme Bob was booked along with the Barge Master of 'The Cambria' Bob Roberts and Margaret Barry. Firstly Captain Roberts arrived having moored his vessel in the Port of London and tipped his wheezing melodeon out of his old kit bag. He proceeded to block the holes in the bellows with pieces of 'stamp paper' (what was left of the sticky paper after all the postage stamps had been torn out of the sheet) whilst awaiting the arrival of Margaret who eventually appeared intoning the memorable statement..."Jaysus" she exclaimed, "I'm so hungry I could eat eleven of the apostles and give the twelfth a run for his money" - "I'd give me eye teeth now for a plate of cold cabbage..."

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry (1917-1989)
From: GUEST,Jon Dudley
Date: 15 Jan 24 - 12:42 PM

Sorry Alan,that was me...

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry (1917-1989)
From: meself
Date: 15 Jan 24 - 03:02 PM

Ah! Thanks - I feared you were just going to leave us in hanging!

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry (1917-1989)
From: GUEST,Roger Knowles
Date: 16 Jan 24 - 01:16 PM

As secretary of Harrogate Folk club many years ago, I had Margaret Barry arrive twice at the club claiming she was booked. She was not. We also had Billy Connolly try it too. It was because the club was held on Saturdays and they had a free night.

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry (1917-1989)
From: GUEST,Alan Woods, ITMA
Date: 18 Jan 24 - 06:21 AM

Thanks Jon for posting that story!
Seems Margaret had good wit and nice turns of phrase as well.

Re. that programme.
I know that for the last episode of the Song Hunter series in 1953, Lomax brought back various people who had appeared on previous episodes.

I don't have any details of who appeared on that last episode but it's possible this is where Margaret appeared with Bob Copper and Bob Roberts?
I'll follow it up a bit to see if I can confirm that.

Thanks,
Alan

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry (1917-1989)
From: GUEST,Jon Dudley
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 03:21 AM

I'll see if I can find any more details relating to the broadcast in Bob's archive.

Jon

Subject: RE: Memories of Margaret Barry (1917-1989)
From: GUEST,Roger Knowles
Date: 23 Jan 24 - 09:40 AM

When it comes to manners and honesty, she was an ignorant, bad mannered pollock! That’s only going on personal experience.