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BS: Deepfakes are coming.........

Mr Red 02 Feb 24 - 04:46 PM
Stilly River Sage 03 Feb 24 - 12:28 AM
Dave the Gnome 03 Feb 24 - 03:20 AM
Doug Chadwick 03 Feb 24 - 10:20 AM
Stilly River Sage 03 Feb 24 - 11:53 AM
Doug Chadwick 03 Feb 24 - 01:20 PM
Dave the Gnome 03 Feb 24 - 01:59 PM
leeneia 03 Feb 24 - 10:07 PM
Doug Chadwick 04 Feb 24 - 07:02 AM
Mr Red 04 Feb 24 - 07:31 AM
Mr Red 04 Feb 24 - 07:32 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Feb 24 - 09:35 AM
Doug Chadwick 04 Feb 24 - 12:27 PM
robomatic 09 Feb 24 - 02:45 PM
Helen 09 Feb 24 - 04:03 PM
robomatic 09 Feb 24 - 04:25 PM
Joe Offer 10 Feb 24 - 05:04 PM
Rain Dog 14 Feb 24 - 07:01 AM
MaJoC the Filk 14 Feb 24 - 11:02 AM
Mr Red 18 Feb 24 - 07:17 AM
Donuel 21 Feb 24 - 07:46 AM

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Subject: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Feb 24 - 04:46 PM

OK they are all talking about it being possible. And We have seen it against Biden. It was seen in recent Slovakian elections.
AND
Both the US & UK have elections this year.

During Brexshit I had to block one guy for sharing images and text (Fakebook) that were beyond credibility. An acquaintance I only exchanged pleasantries with. But it was consistent with him.

The problem we now face is not just being conned when the penny drops, but that genuine messages are being de-valued as we habituate to the new norm - lies on lies. And deepfakes are starting.

Should I start referreing to DeepFakebook now?


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Feb 24 - 12:28 AM

If It Can Happen to Taylor Swift, It Can Happen to Any of Us

A little bit of the article:
A few facts differentiate Swift’s experience from those of other women and girls. While Swift has legions of fans ready to come to her immediate defense and demand that the posts be taken down, most women do not have an army at the ready. Most women do not have the time or money for litigation, and few firms offer pro bono help for victims of online abuse.

That said, Swift likely experienced the same nauseating feeling that many other women did when she saw her face plastered on nude bodies and virtually defiled by the public. And Swift’s lawyers will struggle to find satisfactory legal recourse. Taylor Swift was the victim of our lawless internet, where platforms can entirely evade a duty of care to their users. So were countless women before her.

While the mainstream media hasn’t been covering this subject, scholars—mostly female—have been paying close attention and have conducted groundbreaking research. Many of these women have been subject to attack, since taking on the fight.


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Feb 24 - 03:20 AM

I have said repeatedly that social media platforms need to be under the same rules as mainstream media. Every post needs to be checked for accuracy before it goes live. Impossible? No. The companies involved have the funds and technology to do it but as it lowers their profit margins, they resist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 03 Feb 24 - 10:20 AM

I have said repeatedly that social media platforms need to be under the same rules as mainstream media. Every post needs to be checked for accuracy before it goes live. ... The companies involved have the funds and technology ...

One of the definitions of a social media platform that I found on-line:-

"An Internet website or application that is open to the public, allows a user to create an account, and enables users to communicate with other users for the primary purpose of posting information, comments, messages or images."

Clearly, Mudcat fits into this definition but it has neither the resources nor the technology to check every post before it goes live. You can't impose rules on the big players and expect the small ones to be left alone.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Feb 24 - 11:53 AM

Not every post, but there is oversight.

The trouble with the big sites like Facebook/Instagram/Meta is that they have algorithms in place that catch the wrong stuff. Maybe they catch a lot of the right stuff also, but there seems to be no human intervention to see if the machines got it right. They need more people, but those jobs are very hard on people. I've read about online moderation folks in some of those places who end up with PTSD from the job.

Being very skeptical of everything is about the best way to try to avoid falling into traps set by the folks sending out this crap, and reporting the nonsense when it turns up. Who knows if that works, but it seems to be the only thing we have right now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 03 Feb 24 - 01:20 PM

Yes there is oversight but it is after the event. The post is live from the moment the poster hits the 'submit message' button and remains so until a Mod (who may be in a different time zone) becomes aware of it. Having to wait for each post to be checked before it went live would make meaningful discussion next to impossible.

Please don't take this as a criticism of the site moderation - the Mods do a stirling, and sometimes thankless, job. I am just pointing out one of the problems that might occur if DtG's suggestion was put into practice.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Feb 24 - 01:59 PM

Doug, if a post on Mudcat was to link to a deep fake, how many people would see it before it was removed?

If a post on X or Meta was to... ?

Yes, they should hit the big players and leave the inconsequential tiddlers. Keep an eye on the small fry and if they are abusing the public, shut them down. Something just has to be done or we will be subject to mob rule inflamed by shit stirrers :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: leeneia
Date: 03 Feb 24 - 10:07 PM

It helps to keep alert, because the fakers can't think of everything. Use all your senses, and don't just accept what they tell you.

Recently somebody created a robocall that faked Joe Biden's voice. I listened and soon sensed that it wasn't credible. The voice sounded remarkably like Joe Biden, but the recording sounded like he was in an arena, talking into a huge sound system. It was supposed to be coming from a telephone in an office.

I listen carefully to the sounds of the crowd at Trump rallies. I've heard audience responses that sound like they are all coming from 13-year-old girls. Others that sound like simulated audiences on TV. I've heard booing that nobody acknowledged, as well. (I did not think that was faked.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Feb 24 - 07:02 AM

if a post on Mudcat was to link to a deep fake, how many people would see it before it was removed?

If a post on X or Meta was to... ?


I accept that there are fewer people here than on X/Meta/Facebook and the like but, as a common interest group where like-minded people may move in the same small social circles, the effects could still be significant.

DC5


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Feb 24 - 07:31 AM

Canned applause - has been going on for years. eg

The incident that got my goat was a Buddy Rich concert. It was a 5pm show pre the 8pm show. And I was getting pretty narked about his attitude to the size of the audience, understandably very lean. And his in jokes with his band were lost on us. But then I noticed the applause went on just that bit longer than the people around me.

Canned applause at a live event? I lost respect for Ruddy Bitch.

It is analogous to DeepFakery but few few levels down, and a few years back. But it had the same effect - you don't trust again.

Worse - politicians et al are going to cry "deepfake" on anything the don't like. Even on "alt facts".


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Feb 24 - 07:32 AM

I am assuming the old adage "bad news travels faster". It is out there before it can be debunked.


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Feb 24 - 09:35 AM

How long have you been a DC5 Doug? Was that a precusror to the DC7? :-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Feb 24 - 12:27 PM

I don't know. Maybe there's more than one of me!

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Feb 24 - 02:45 PM

I saw one that made it to Youtube with a deep fake Julia Roberts pushing an ED remedy. It was bad deepfake but they had the voice, face, and mechanics all working together.


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: Helen
Date: 09 Feb 24 - 04:03 PM

I watched both series of the excellent UK TV drama show The Capture. The plot revolved around deepfakes and political decisions. It raised a lot of questions about the potential influences and effects of deepfakes on society.


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Feb 24 - 04:25 PM

there was a British political miniseries on a few years ago called "Years and Years". I think they had deep fakes in the plot but my memory is not clear on the matter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Feb 24 - 05:04 PM

I saw an interview of the Nevada Secretary of State this morning. He was saying that we need to have the intervention of the Federal Government to stop deepfakes and other fraudulent misinformation created by Artificial Intelligence. Does he know how deeply many Americans mistrust the Federal Government? The MAGA folks and their forebears have been sowing the seeds of mistrust for decades.


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: Rain Dog
Date: 14 Feb 24 - 07:01 AM

BBC Radio 4 have just broadcast Why Do You Hate Me?

"Last November, a faked audio clip of London's mayor went viral. Marianna Spring talks to Sadiq Khan about the impact it had and tracks down it's suspected creator.

The clip used artificial intelligence to create a replica of Mr Khan's voice saying words scripted by the faker, disparaging Remembrance weekend with an expletive and calling for pro-Palestinian marches to take precedence.

In this series, Why Do You Hate Me?, Marianna Spring delves into her inbox to investigate extraordinary cases of online hate like this one. She meets the people at the heart of the conflicts, and in some cases brings them together, to see if understanding – and even forgiveness – is ever possible."

++

When we see or hear clips like these, what is it that makes us decide if it is correct or not?

If the 'fake' clip is pretending to be from someone whose views we share, we will probably think it seems unlikely to be true. If the 'fake' clip is from someone whose views we do not share, we might well be inclined to believe it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 14 Feb 24 - 11:02 AM

MaJoC's €0.02: "Deepfakes" are merely a modern version of libel*, perpetrated using an electronic ventriloquist's dummy. I suspect such things work more against people you hate because they attribute to them one or more statements which confirm your prejudices against them, and which you really, really wish they'd said.

* Or slander. I am not a lawyer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Feb 24 - 07:17 AM

UK Law:

Slander is verbal heard once (I assume).

Libel is published/broadcast and includes putting the falsehood on a telephone answering machine - ask Miriam Margoles!


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Subject: RE: BS: Deepfakes are coming.........
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 24 - 07:46 AM

There are deep fakes I would like to see;
Biden doing cartwheels in the Oval Office,
Trump and Putin accepting the nomination at Convention,
Tucker Carlson tanning his testicles and catching fire,
The cruise ship Noro of the Seas with overflow down its sides.
Netanyahu with the same fate as Mussolini.


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