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BS: Measles USA 2024
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Subject: BS: Measles USA From: Raggytash Date: 03 Mar 24 - 07:17 PM I have just read an article on an outbreak of Measles in Florida USA. Can somebody tell me, please that this article is not true. Measles Florida How can this man suggest this ............... I despair! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 Mar 24 - 10:33 PM It is, without even clicking on the article. And the state's "surgeon general" is an anti-vaxxer appointed by the idiot governor. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Stilly River Sage Date: 04 Mar 24 - 12:19 AM From that article: As the highly contagious disease raged in a Broward county elementary school, Ladapo, a politically appointed acolyte of Florida’s far-right governor Ron DeSantis, wrote to parents telling them it was perfectly fine for parents to continue to send in their unvaccinated children. It is both infuriating and embarrassing to have so many incompetent people in office and put in positions of authority. It is insulting to the intelligence and the well-being of Americans. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Donuel Date: 04 Mar 24 - 05:25 AM Remember the vaccine deniers. Change happens slowly with vaccine avoidance starting with a mercury rumor and fraudulent claim by a UK doctor and over here with Jenny McCarthy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Stilly River Sage Date: 04 Mar 24 - 10:47 AM Type "vaccine denial" into Google and Wikipedia comes up with a more polite (and less accurate) term "Vaccine Hesitancy." When a vaccination program successfully reduces the disease threat, it may reduce the perceived risk of disease as cultural memories of the effects of that disease fade. At this point, parents may feel they have nothing to lose by not vaccinating their children.[46] If enough people hope to become free-riders, gaining the benefits of herd immunity without vaccination, vaccination levels may drop to a level where herd immunity is ineffective.[47] According to Jennifer Reich, those parents who believe vaccination to be quite effective but might prefer their children to remain unvaccinated, are those who are the most likely to be convinced to change their mind, as long as they are approached properly.[48] And this: As the success of immunization programs increases and the incidence of disease decreases, public attention shifts away from the risks of disease to the risk of vaccination,[52] and it becomes challenging for health authorities to preserve public support for vaccination programs.[53] They are trying really hard to not say that these cult-following parents are idiots, so that if one of them stumbles upon the topic they might see themselves portrayed as "reasonable" but with hesitancy instead of simply shutting down all critical thinking. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: meself Date: 04 Mar 24 - 01:16 PM 'Vaccine denial' and 'vaccine hesitancy' are not the same thing. Someone who is 'vaccine hesitant' has heard some whacked-out nonsense, and doesn't know if it's valid or not, and can have their mind changed by exposure to facts and reason. They may ask their doctor about it, and listen to what their doctor says. A 'vaccine denier' has their mind made up, and will not listen to facts or reason. I can't explain this, though: "those parents who believe vaccination to be quite effective but might prefer their children to remain unvaccinated .... " Unless the idea is that these parents are depending on everyone else's kids getting vaccinated so their kids don't have to take those statistically minimal risks involved in vaccination ... ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Stilly River Sage Date: 04 Mar 24 - 01:47 PM There is a lunatic fringe that is both wide and deep in that subject. And I suspect that the writer of the Wikipedia page is hoping to persuade some of the denial folks that they were actually just hesitant and giving them a graceful way to change their minds. More power to them if it works. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Donuel Date: 05 Mar 24 - 06:45 AM Vaccine avoidance started with a mercury rumor and fraudulent claim of autism side effects by a UK doctor and over here with Jenny McCarthy. Conspiracy theories got a big boost by Trump regarding vaccines. This slow anti-vaccine process has taken 20 years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Donuel Date: 05 Mar 24 - 07:20 AM I gave a hypothetical of self harm. Vaccine avoiders are not just risking self harm, they are enhancing harm to society. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Charmion Date: 05 Mar 24 - 08:58 AM I had a full-blown case of red measles at the age of eight, and my whole family suffered along with me. I was too sick to pay much attention at the time, but my parents were terrified; Dad never had measles as a child, and could well have died of it had it finally got him at age 42. Fortunately, the very first preventive against measles — gamma globulin — had just become available in Canada, so the money was found to inoculate Dad and my brothers, who experienced only a much attenuated version of the disease. This is one topic that I think elders should bang on about until they have beaten a healthy (!) respect for highly transmissible illnesses into their younger friends and relatives. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Charmion Date: 05 Mar 24 - 10:28 AM Incidentally, vaccine-avoidance and vaccine-denial predate the false autism scare by at least a century. From the very beginning of inoculation, with Edward Jenner and cowpox, opponents of vaccination have scrambled to oppose it, marshalling arguments from the will of God to the great demon Socialism. In fact, "freedom from big government" was the theme of the American resistance to any federal plan to conquer polio when the Salk vaccine was released in 1955. Meanwhile, other countries got busy with public health regulations and massive needle parades for school-age children. Any Canadian baby-boomer has clear memories of "getting their shots" before being allowed to go to school, and the annual booster campaigns. We were all conditioned to submit to the procedure without fuss. My mother liked to tell a story about my brother Andrew who, as a toddler, was so clear on what was expected of him that, when taken to the doctor, he automatically held out his arm -- snowsuit and all -- the minute he entered the treatment room. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: meself Date: 05 Mar 24 - 11:16 AM Yup - the periodic vaccinations in elementary school were a kind of rite-of-passage, and, in retrospect, a bonding experience. There were always stories of someone who had fainted on receiving the poke - or maybe before? I can't remember hearing of anyone whose parents refused permission, although I suppose there must have been the odd person who couldn't get one for some obscure health reason or because they'd already received it elsewhere. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Helen Date: 05 Mar 24 - 02:14 PM Yes, meself, same here in Oz. I still remember when the nice, shy girl in front of me fainted, and every time I saw her for the rest of my school days, I think that memory was superimposed over my real-life view of her. Lucky for us the next dose was the Sabin oral polio vaccine, so no more needles for that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Donuel Date: 05 Mar 24 - 04:37 PM In Denver Colorado, I got measles and Chicken Pox simultaneously. On day one I thought I had mosquito bites so I applied Absorbine Jr. The fever passed 104 so I ended up in a cold bath. I still remember how my vision became inverted. I can see how measles can be fatal This was back in the day when doctors did house calls. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 Mar 24 - 05:50 PM The years that we caught stuff were hell on earth for my mom. Four kids, and we seemed to each catch these things in sequence about a week apart. Measles, mumps, chicken pox, they were rough. Asian flu hit our household so hard that my kindergarten age sister made the executive decision to stay home from school to take care of the toddler because our mother was so sick in bed. The idea that so many modern Americans thumb their noses at the medical miracle of vaccination is confounding to those of us who had those illnesses and made sure to get our children vaccinated to avoid them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 06 Mar 24 - 03:21 AM sometime back I saw a pic of a gi-normous ward full of iron lungs, with a nurse for every patient - c.1930s? seeing pics like that is an antidote for anti-vax nutters! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Charmion Date: 07 Mar 24 - 11:24 AM Many of those iron lung photos originated with the March of Dimes. Chilling. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Charmion Date: 07 Mar 24 - 11:33 AM The trouble with today's popular contempt for measles is that an important fact of the disease has only recently become clear: Measles knocks out established immunity to a whole whack of other illnesses, not just immediately but for several years. People who recover from measles will soon come down with something else -- flu, chicken pox, whooping cough, whatever -- and that something else can more easily give rise to secondary infections, notably pneumonia. Here's a pertinent article from today's Globe and Mail: Measles is not some harmless childhood infection |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Charmion Date: 07 Mar 24 - 11:36 AM Oh, blazes. I just posted a pay-wall link. Sorry. Here's the full text: Measles is not some harmless childhood infection by Dr Dawn Bowdish Dr. Dawn Bowdish is the executive director of the Firestone Institute for Respiratory Health, the Canada Research Chair in Aging and Immunity, and a professor of medicine at McMaster University. Measles infections are on the rise, particularly in Europe and the U.S., while vaccination rates have declined – but too many have dismissed these trends, seeing measles as just a harmless childhood infection. But it is, in fact, the cause of the most deaths of all the vaccine-preventable infections. Canadian deaths from measles may be rare owing to excellent medical care, but measles can have long-term consequences that are worth avoiding. Before antibiotics were available, measles killed more people than influenza. When a child develops the high fever and rash characteristic of measles, the virus infects and destroys white blood cells, specifically those called lymphocytes. This leads to a period of immune-system suppression, where bacteria that normally live on and inside us without serious issue can cause deadly pneumonia or other infections. With antibiotics, we can help children through this risky period, although the rise of antibiotic-resistant bacteria means that we can’t be as confident as we once were. What we can’t fix, however, is the damage that measles does to lymphocytes. Our lymphocytes are essential to the generation of immune responses to new infections and vaccinations, but also in the system’s ability to “remember” the immune responses we’ve already generated. Measles infects and kills these critical immune cells. As a result, we know that a child who contracts measles will probably have more infections and more antibiotic prescriptions for at least five years after their infection, likely because they are getting sick with things that they once had immune protection from. We also know that even as their lymphocyte numbers recover, some are lost and the quality of others are reduced. This is why deaths from many unrelated infections also decreased when the measles vaccines were rolled out; measles no longer caused those children to “forget” their learned immune response. Measles during pregnancy is dangerous. Miscarriage, premature labour, congenital birth defects, neurodevelopment disorders, or even the death of both mother and baby are all very real possibilities. In some parts of the world, when a woman plans to get pregnant and there is any doubt about her vaccine status, her health care provider will test for antibodies to make sure she is protected or recommend vaccination. In Canada, however, this is rare. Pregnant women are often not against being vaccinated, but may feel that not getting vaccinated is safer than getting vaccinated. This, compounded by a well-organized and concerted misinformation campaign about the measles vaccine that began in the 1990s, means that many people born in this era are now entering their child-bearing years having never received their childhood vaccines. Measles is the most infectious virus we know of, and the increasing number of measles infections locally and globally means that we can expect to see its tragic effects in pregnancy once again. Midwives, family doctors and caregivers need to recommend vaccination for measles and other vaccine-preventable infections in the strongest possible terms. There are some “known unknowns” that make the recent measles outbreaks particularly worrisome. We don’t know whether measles-induced immune suppression will make COVID, respiratory syncytial virus (RSV), streptococcal infections and other surging issues worse. We don’t know what proportion of Canadians have waning measles immunity and whether this means we need booster campaigns. We don’t know if people on immunosuppressant drugs or chemotherapy have lost their protective measles immunity and, if they have, we don’t know if our long-term care homes and cancer centres are at risk of outbreaks – though we do know that our strained health care and public health systems are under-resourced and will struggle to cope. Misinformation, pandemic-related gaps in vaccine delivery and the continuing countrywide shortages of family doctors means that many Canadians have not been vaccinated. But it’s not too late. The National Advisory Council on Immunization has clear guidance on how people of any age can catch up on their vaccines. If you have any doubt as to whether you were vaccinated, especially if you are thinking about becoming pregnant, speak to your health care provider or public health unit. Even if it turns out you were vaccinated and didn’t know it, there is no safety concern around getting vaccinated again. Children can also be vaccinated if they’ve missed their vaccines for any reason. And we should continue to enforce existing rules that require vaccines to go to schools and work in certain sectors. The terrible consequences of measles in pregnancy and childhood were known to our grandparents and great-grandparents. They are not a lesson that any of us need to learn again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Mar 24 - 11:48 AM Thanks for that article. I guess that explains why there was a period there where we did indeed catch everything. It all came before I was about 8 or 9, and I'm the oldest of the four (the youngest six years younger than me). First came measles, then chicken pox, and then mumps. I remember mumps best because it was most recent, but I had a really dreadful case of it, missing a couple of weeks of school. I seem to also recall my father was away for the mumps, in particular, staying with a friend because he'd never had them as a child, so that left four sick kids on my mom's hands alone. Mumps in adults. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 07 Mar 24 - 12:28 PM Side issue: one thing that's got worse is cases of asthma. In primary school, I was in a class which had two asthmatics in it, one of which was me; this, I understood, was unusual. Nowadays, a primary-school teacher is surprised to find there's *no* asthmatics in a class. But at least these days having an asthma attack is no longer seen as malingering, even by PE teachers. Discussion on why this might be is probably best done under a different heading. We now return you to the main subject of this thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Donuel Date: 07 Mar 24 - 06:11 PM Polio vaccine was not patented by Dr. Salk. That might never happen again. My cello teacher Louis Richardson had polio which only left his legs useless. Vaccines work for everyone despite their religion or conspiracy theory. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Thompson Date: 10 Mar 24 - 06:38 AM The frantic desire for control is a kind of childishness: people think that if they themselves can find the cure or preventative for an illness they aren't in danger from intellectuals and government. It's part of the same childishness that makes people so addicted to their phones and their social media that they have to fiddle with them even when driving, and won't switch them off even overnight or when attending performances. It's also part of an individualism that resents the idea that you might be kind to a neighbour or someone you share the road with. And people who rely on homeopathy and "natural" treatments are trying for control too, trying to keep away the demons with magic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Helen Date: 10 Mar 24 - 01:09 PM Thompson, I totally agree with almost everything you said, except that some natural treatments, e.g. some herbal medicines do have benefits. In a lot of cases the study of herbal treatments is the scientific precursor to the development of medicines. As an example, I prefer to use a herbal tea Sleepytime tea to help me sleep, which I very rarely use instead of prescription sleep medication which can have side effects. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: The Sandman Date: 12 Mar 24 - 09:23 AM Vaccines work for everyone despite their religion or conspiracy theory. quote not everyone, that is not true, there are a minority of cases where people die despite vaccines. it may be for a number of different other reasons, , then there are a minority of cases where people have a bad reaction to the vaccine and die. the situation is not as black and white as donuel suggests. top call anti vaxxers nutters is as silly as calling pro vaccers nutters,. Iam not anti vaccinations , but they do not always work for everyone in every situation |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Stilly River Sage Date: 12 Mar 24 - 10:23 AM That number is minute, and people who can't take vaccines due to allergies (the ones that are formulated in eggs) generally know about it after the first time. They depend on herd immunity, a thing that is rapidly dissipating thanks to the conspiracy theorists and ill-informed who wilfully ignore something that has worked around the world for a very long time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 12 Mar 24 - 12:56 PM Re fatal bad reactions: however few the percentage in the population, in each case someone is 100% affected .... and their relations react accordingly. It takes extreme stoicism for "Data is not the plural of Anecdote" to be a comfort. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Stilly River Sage Date: 12 Mar 24 - 02:01 PM It takes extreme stoicism for "Data is not the plural of Anecdote" to be a comfort. An analysis of that aphorism here: Don't forget: The plural of anecdote is data You may have heard the phrase the plural of anecdote is not data. It turns out that this is a misquote. The original aphorism, by the political scientist Ray Wolfinger, was just the opposite: The plural of anecdote is data. The comments are interesting, showing why that kind of remark isn't helpful. It does illustrate how information is mangled in this day and age—picking and choosing data points and turning them into anecdote masquerading as data. Who can say how many robustly-successful medical treatments have a fraction of bad results, it goes with the territory; so while the lion's share of the work is beneficial, sometimes it isn't. Throwing out the good because of the anomalies (rather than working to understand and detect anomalous cases prior to treatment) is exactly what the vaccine deniers are doing. Since vaccines are (were) almost universal compared to all other more specialized medical treatments, there is a huge pool of recipients or possible beneficiaries to influence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: The Sandman Date: 13 Mar 24 - 03:45 AM let us get to the root of the problem,in the third world and to a lesser extent the western world, poor diet and lack of food due to POVERTY,MEANS that despite vaccination people are less likely to survive. Vaccinations are good for the pharma industry and are effective in a majority of cases , occasionally they produce bad side effects, but why do people not survive despite vaccination?, the radical solUtion is to eliminate poverty and poor diet, and then if vaccinated they will have a greater chance of survival if someone is suffering from malnutrition the chances of vaccination saving their life is less than if somebody is otherwise healthy. Vaccination is an example of treating symptoms not cause Vaccination is useful but it is not a cure all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Stilly River Sage Date: 13 Mar 24 - 10:14 AM Not going down that rabbit hole, Dick. Talk about a red herring. This topic is about measles and the transmissibility and the problem with vaccine deniers refusing to get their children vaccinated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Charmion Date: 13 Mar 24 - 11:22 AM Sandman has his argument exactly backwards. Vaccinated people are more likely to survive poverty and poor diet than the unvaccinated simply because the physical effects of deprivation are not complicated by disease. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 13 Mar 24 - 12:30 PM Thanks for your correction on the quote, Stilly; I'll steal "[cherry-picked] anecdote masquerading as data", if you don't mind. I did try to reply at greater length, but the 'Cat had a brief nap when I finally clicked Submit. Clearly the 'Cat has good taste. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Stilly River Sage Date: 13 Mar 24 - 02:02 PM MaJoC - It took a little while to parse that phrase, and decide exactly how it applied here. Good exercise, and a concept worthy of keeping up with. Thank you for dropping it into the discussion. I think sites related to that search can go under either the philosophy or logical fallacy bookmarks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: The Sandman Date: 16 Mar 24 - 02:55 AM Is vaccination mandatory for us? All immigrant applicants, including children, must receive all the vaccines required for U.S. immigration based on their age. The only exceptions to this are if a vaccine is not medically advised for an immigrant applicant or if the immigrant applicant can show proof of prior vaccination. Is West Virginia religious exemption from vaccines? This bill will bring West Virginia in line with 44 other states in the United States that permit a religious, philosophical, or religious and philosophical exemptions to mandatory childhood vaccines. A child should never be denied his or her Constitutionally guaranteed fundamental right to an education. above are facts, not opinions, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: The Sandman Date: 16 Mar 24 - 03:22 AM more facts What is the failure rate of measles vaccine? Approximately 2% to 7% of children who receive only 1 dose of MMR vaccine fail to respond to it, i.e., they experience primary vaccine failure. MMR vaccine failure can occur because of passive antibody in the vaccine recipient, immaturity of the immune system, damaged vaccine, or other reasons. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Stilly River Sage Date: 16 Mar 24 - 11:05 AM Do you have a point, Dick, or are you just lobbing stink bombs into an existing thread? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Charmion Date: 16 Mar 24 - 11:55 AM Any work of humankind can fail — we are a fallible species. That’s not a reason to avoid or refrain from taking steps to reduce the power of known threats. Most adult decisions are based on cost-benefit analysis, threat-and-risk assessment, or both — usually both. What is the threat? What will mitigation cost? What are the most likely unintended consequences? Is there any possibility that those consequences will be worse than the original threat? If so, how great is that possibility? If you can’t conduct that analysis either on your own or with help, you’re in for a world of completely avoidable hurt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Doug Chadwick Date: 16 Mar 24 - 01:00 PM Approximately 2% to 7% of children who receive only 1 dose of MMR vaccine fail to respond to it What is clear is that approximately 93% to 98% of children who receive only 1 dose of MMR vaccine to respond to it. Pretty good odds, I would have thought. DC |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Stilly River Sage Date: 16 Mar 24 - 08:40 PM That happens when you're a glass 7% empty and not a glass 93% full kind of guy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Backwoodsman Date: 17 Mar 24 - 02:58 AM ”There have been no confirmed cases of paralysis due to polio caught in the UK since 1984.” - Source: NHS Publication - Polio Why do you think that is, Sandman? N case you’re not sure, the answer is in the linked NHS document. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: The Sandman Date: 17 Mar 24 - 04:20 AM I have been vaccinated against Polio, and i am not against vaccinations.and at no point have i said i am against vaccinations. . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: The Sandman Date: 17 Mar 24 - 04:37 AM That happens when you're a glass 7% empty and not a glass 93% full kind of guy.quote stilly river sage.What is the failure rate of measles vaccine? "Approximately 2% to 7% of children who receive only 1 dose of MMR vaccine fail to respond to it, i.e., they experience primary vaccine failure. MMR vaccine failure can occur because of passive antibody in the vaccine recipient, immaturity of the immune system, damaged vaccine, or other reasons." quote from the internet. the quote mentions that having a ppor immune system is one of the reasons for the small percentage of vaccine failure. so what causes poor immune system?one possibilty is malnutrtion and poor diet. I have had covid vaccinations.I am, not anti vaccination Vaccination is not a cure all as the facts show, although obviously it in many cases helps |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Stilly River Sage Date: 17 Mar 24 - 11:09 AM quote from the internet The Internet is a big place. As it happens, the quote comes from here. Scroll down to "Immunogenicity and Vaccine Efficacy" and it is an INCOMPLETE QUOTE. The full paragraph reads: Measles antibodies develop in approximately 95% of children vaccinated at age 12 months. Seroconversion rates are similar for single-antigen measles, MMR vaccine, and MMRV vaccine. Approximately 2% to 7% of children who receive only 1 dose of MMR vaccine fail to respond to it, i.e., they experience primary vaccine failure. MMR vaccine failure can occur because of passive antibody in the vaccine recipient, immaturity of the immune system, damaged vaccine, or other reasons. Most persons who fail to respond to the first dose will respond to a second dose. Studies indicate that more than 99% of persons who receive 2 doses of measles vaccine (with the first dose administered no earlier than the first birthday) develop serologic evidence of measles immunity. Changes the view, doesn't it? Even good science sources like the CDC can be manipulated by those who have something to prove. Incomplete information can be as harmful as no information. Most persons who fail to respond to the first dose will respond to a second dose. This may be in the BS section of the page, but stop with the BS. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Donuel Date: 17 Mar 24 - 08:18 PM Measles has been used in experimental cancer treatments to infect cancer cells with an embedded gene spliced cancer-killing agent. If one survives the treatment it seems to work from the inside out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Stilly River Sage Date: 17 Mar 24 - 11:20 PM I remember reading about a really odd cancer treatment being tried related to catching some other illness, but I don't remember specifically that it was measles. Do you have any sources? A search on "infectious disease used to combat cancer cells" comes up with all sorts of answers (the Google search results) but they don't seem to land on the article I read some years back. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: The Sandman Date: 18 Mar 24 - 04:01 AM Trump is going to be seen to defend the democratic rights of religious groups, including Protestants, Catholics, Jewish, Muslims, Christians, Amish, Hinduist and Sikhist. He is defending their democratic rights under the constitution This has been a problem since before the 44th president came into the world of politics. Stop trying to turn every thread into a fight. ---mudelf
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Thompson Date: 18 Mar 24 - 04:23 AM The constitutional right to be bone stupid. Latest vaccine news I've read is about the TB vaccine - the BCG, which was given to all babies across Europe for many years. This vaccine has now been discovered to have a significant effect on the probability of getting Alzheimer's, cutting the chances of coming down with A and other dementias by 20%. Sadly, a lot of countries have now stopped giving babies the BCG, as TB was reckoned to no longer be a huge danger. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: The Sandman Date: 18 Mar 24 - 04:41 AM It is called DEMOCRACY |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: Charmion Date: 18 Mar 24 - 09:02 AM Newsflash, Sandman — you’re pulling the US constitution card in an argument with a Canadian and an Irish person. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Measles USA From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 19 Mar 24 - 05:43 AM And an Englishman. Vaccines against rare diseases (measles, TB or whatever) are like armed forces in times of peace: you only discover you need them when you've decided you don't, trouble comes back, and you suddenly realise you've got no defences. |
