BS: Long Night in Ukraine Part Dva

Subject: BS: Long Night in Ukraine Part Dva
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Aug 24 - 07:23 PM

Urane has entered Russia, and is presently sending troops into Kursk, accordng to Public Broadcastng. I don't know if this is a surprise to those working closely with Ukraine, but it seems to be a big surprse to Russia.

I haven't gone through all my usual sources (on Youtube), but maybe some of you know people in a position to know.

Anyway, I started a thread Feb 23 last year but I cannot find it on mudcat.org. If there is a mod who can, feel free to bring it to freshness and append this note.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine Part Dva
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Aug 24 - 08:06 PM

I hate all this warfare, but I find myself cheering for Ukraine. If Ukraine has to fight only on its own turf, I don't see how it can ever bring a peaceful end to this conflict. But I'm not sure that attacking Western Russia will bring Putin to surrender. It hurts ordinary people, but Putin still sits in comfort and luxury.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine Part Dva
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Aug 24 - 09:03 PM

Decent analysis and maps.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine Part Dva
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Aug 24 - 01:00 PM

Rapparee's reference to ISW is to me a 'valid' one. I've been getting ISW info via Youtube for a while and it seems to be informative but not a jump-to-conclusions type of source. Likewise an Australian blogger on YT 'PERUN' normally a gamer source and commentator until the War and a thoughtful, wordy informer since.

The safe comments are:
Purpose is to make Ukrainians feel better and Russians feel like asking questions about why they're doing what they're doing.

I think the origin of the war is that Putin is bad, not really sane, and he has created a nation of cowards.

I approve of making his life miserable, because I think he is a zero sum type of guy and getting in his business keeps him less in ours. He's also part of the Worldwide Anti-Democratic War being written about in Anne Applebaum's "Autocracy, Inc."

One thing I really don't know, and probably don't understand:

Is Putin a cause or an effect?

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine Part Dva
From: Neil D
Date: 10 Aug 24 - 11:54 PM

I would say both robomatic. The cause of so much misery in the world today. The effect of centuries of Russian history. I don't like making broad generalizations and I know there are millions of freedom yearning Russians, but it does seem that as a people, Russians are predisposed toward authoritarian rule. They got rid of the tsars and ended up with Stalin. They got rid of Communism and within a generation they are saddled with the most bloodthirsty of today's dictators.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine Part Dva
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 11 Aug 24 - 07:55 AM

> Is Putin a cause or an effect?

Initially an effect. Somebody-or-other's* Law of Bureacracies: "Any sufficiently large bureaucracy is like a septic tank: it's the really big chunks which rise to the top."

But beyond a certain point, he started to believe his own press releases, and the Feedback Law took over. Other, ahem, unreasonable leaders are available.

* Attribution humbly requested.