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Help: Maths in Music

Ulli 13 Feb 00 - 10:11 AM
sophocleese 13 Feb 00 - 10:17 AM
Penny S. 13 Feb 00 - 02:12 PM
Little Neophyte 13 Feb 00 - 02:31 PM
GUEST,T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) 13 Feb 00 - 02:36 PM
Penny S. 13 Feb 00 - 03:19 PM
Eric the Viking 13 Feb 00 - 04:07 PM
Ulli 13 Feb 00 - 05:55 PM
Little Neophyte 13 Feb 00 - 06:34 PM
Bev and Jerry 13 Feb 00 - 09:08 PM
Mark Cohen 13 Feb 00 - 11:48 PM
Penny S. 14 Feb 00 - 12:28 PM
Jacob B 14 Feb 00 - 12:49 PM
Ulli 14 Feb 00 - 01:16 PM
GUEST,Seamus Kennedy 14 Feb 00 - 05:17 PM
raredance 14 Feb 00 - 08:47 PM
GUEST,_gargoyle 14 Feb 00 - 09:02 PM
GUEST,_gargoyle 14 Feb 00 - 09:02 PM
GUEST,_gargoyle 14 Feb 00 - 09:02 PM
Pete Peterson 14 Feb 00 - 09:46 PM
Susan of DT 14 Feb 00 - 09:56 PM
Sorcha 14 Feb 00 - 10:07 PM
Mark Cohen 14 Feb 00 - 10:19 PM
Pete Peterson 14 Feb 00 - 11:07 PM
Sorcha 14 Feb 00 - 11:18 PM
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Subject: Maths in music/songs
From: Ulli
Date: 13 Feb 00 - 10:11 AM

I would like to know if there are any songs around which are about (or contain) basic maths (e.g. multiplication table), i.e. songs which help children to learn and memorize the basics?
Can anyone help me?
Thanks
Ulli


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: sophocleese
Date: 13 Feb 00 - 10:17 AM

Inchworm, Inchworm, will give you two and two are four, four and four are eight...


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: Penny S.
Date: 13 Feb 00 - 02:12 PM

Any song which accumulates number - such as the 12 days of Christmas, one man went to mow, etc, will give a lot of mathematical work as you can explore the successive totals - not basic, but good investigative work on triangular numbers, tables, squares, etc.

Penny


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 13 Feb 00 - 02:31 PM

The Jackson 5

ABC
Easy as 123
I'll bet it is
Do Ra Me
ABC
123
Baby you and me


How about..........
And it's one, two, three
What are we fighting for
Don't ask me I don't give a damn
Next stops is Vietnam
And it's five, six, seven
Open up the pearly gates
Well it aint no time to wonder why
Woopie, were all gonna die


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: GUEST,T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 13 Feb 00 - 02:36 PM

There are a couple of Tom Lehrer songs with math in them: "New Math" and "Lobachevsky".

T.


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: Penny S.
Date: 13 Feb 00 - 03:19 PM

I've used New Math to teach subtraction! But without the music - I haven't heard it.

Penny


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 13 Feb 00 - 04:07 PM

1 2 3 4 5 once I caught a fish alive etc. Five little men in a Flying saucer etc. five current buns in a bakers shop five little ducks went swimming one day. You can change the number from 1- anything if you like and have a large group of kids to sing with. One man went to mow etc. This old man he played 1 etc make some up for multiplication and other basic rules of number etc. There are lots of counting, number songs. Eric


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: Ulli
Date: 13 Feb 00 - 05:55 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions so far. What I am looking for is something slightly different (although I don't even know if anything like this does actually exist): basic maths (e.g. multiplication table) worked into a song (Rap music/patterns might work - sorry, I know Mudcat is Folk/Blues, but still....)kind of automatically (unconsciously ?)learning basic maths through music and songs. Is there anything like that around?
Ulli


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 13 Feb 00 - 06:34 PM

Ulli, you've really got me thinking now.
What about subtraction?

100 bottles of beer on the wall,
100 bottles of beer.
If one of those bottles should happen to fall,
99 bottles of beer on the wall.


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 13 Feb 00 - 09:08 PM

There's a song called "Twistification" which appears on page 316 of Lomax's "Folksongs of North America". The chorus is:

Five times five is tewnty five,
Five times six is thirty,
Five times seven is thirty five,
Five times eight is forty,
Five times nine is forty five,
Five times ten is fifty,
Five times eleven is fifty-five,
Five times twelve is sixty.

The tune is Charley Over the Water or Over the River Charley.


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 13 Feb 00 - 11:48 PM

I have a vague memory of Shirley Temple skipping up or down the stairs in time to a multiplication table rhyme. "The Littlest Colonel"? Maybe "Captain January"? Sorry, I can't get any closer than that.
Penny, Tom Lehrer's "New Math" actually doesn't have a tune to the math part, just to the chorus. It's more a recitative -- kind of like talking blues, or an early version of rap. If you have the beat, you've got it. By the way, an old college friend of mine is the son of W.V. Quine, a well-respected Harvard professor of mathematical philosophy (I don't know if he's still there, or where Doug is). He told me -- back in 1970 -- that Tom Lehrer was the only person who got an A in his father's class who didn't go right into academics.

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: Penny S.
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 12:28 PM

Mark, I've got the music book, and we actually did it as a sort of chant, with the chorus sung unaccompanied - but I just couldn't do the accompaniment! My sister (a mathematician) has done it as her party piece, but I haven't heard her. I keep looking for a recording. I find myself, at times, falling into the rhythm - you can't take nine from six, six is less than nine, so you look at the four in the tens place ... and I wonder, does copyright cover this, does matter if I am using different numbers, HOW ELSE do I say it? Thanks for the Harvard snippet - I knew Lehrer was a mathematician, but not that sort of detail.

Penny


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: Jacob B
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 12:49 PM

There is a company that sells a series of recordings under the title Schoolhouse Rock. At least one of the tapes deals with math tables sung/chanted to a disco beat, first with the answers, then with the answers left out for the listener to fill in. Not really singable (there isn't really a melody) but very, very repetitive. It's undoubtedly effective at drilling the tables into any children who decide they like listening to it.


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: Ulli
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 01:16 PM

Thanks for all the tips, especially Jacob B. 'Schoolhouse Rock' [[http://www.yak.net/pub/ian/SHR/Intro.html]] is exactly what I had been looking for. Again I want to say, it's just amazing how Mudcat is working. I found it about a month ago and I must admit it has become my favourite internet site (I am not only following recent discussions but also reading 'old' threads). It's unbelievable what (background) information one can get here. Congratulations to the founders of this site and all those who contribute with their knowledge. May it stay like this
Thanks
Ulli


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: GUEST,Seamus Kennedy
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 05:17 PM

For a great CD about math, physics, etc., try David and Ginger Hildebrand's Physics Pholk Songs interactive CD. You cana contact them at: http:/users.aol.com/davenging/dgstudio.htm or http:/physics.dickinson.edu. All the best


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: raredance
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 08:47 PM

I couldn't find Pete Seeger's great "We'll All Be A-doubling" in the DT so here it is.

Chorus:
We'll all be a-doubling, a-doubling, a-doubling
We'll all be a-doubling in thirty-two years.
We'll all be a-doubling, a-doubling, a-doubling
We'll all be a-doubling in thirty-two years.

Two times two is four!
Two times four is eight!
Two times eight is sixteen,
And the hour is getting late!

Two time sixteen is thirty-two
Twice that is sixty-four
Next comes a hundred and twenty-eight
And do you want to hear more.

Next comes two hyundred fifty-six
Twice that is five hundred and twelve
Next, one thousand twenty-four
Just figure it out yourself.

Next two thousand forty-eight
Then four thousand ninety-six
Eight thousand, one hundred ninety two
Some parent is a-looking sick.

Every eight generations
Multiply a thousand times
Sixteen makes it a million
Some people don't like this rhyme.

Give it another three hundred years
Your children number a billion
Keep doubling another millenium
You can have another quadriiooion.

For two thousand years we been praying
O Lord, deliver me please.
The Lord helps them that help themselves
We better get off our knees.

Either people are going to have to get smaller
Or the world's going to have to get bigger
Or there's a coulple other possibilities
I'll leave it to you to figger.

recorded by Pete Seeger on "God Bless The Grass" also printed in "Where have All the Flowers Gone" by Pete Seeger (1993); and "The Sierra Club Survival Songbook" 1971)

rich r


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: GUEST,_gargoyle
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 09:02 PM

Yes, there are such songs.

It was once a "bench-mark-requirement" that a child "master" the multiplecation-tables in order to be promoted from 4th Grade.

My brother had a terrible time (as terrible as my experiences with spelling....(which if such a requirement existed I would still reside in a forth-grade-classroom.))

Therefore, my parents invested in a series of records....the times-tables, up to twelve. They got my brother through the test. (Good, Lord knows, you don't want to know what his job is TODAY!)

Use a I,IV,V progression and you can create any song for any table, your child needs to learn.....You can even create poems, as our Fourth Grade Teacher did....probably the "hard-parts" will suffice...ie. 7's, 8's, 9's, teach the 8's as doubles of 4's.


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: GUEST,_gargoyle
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 09:02 PM

Yes, there are such songs.

It was once a "bench-mark-requirement" that a child "master" the multiplecation-tables in order to be promoted from 4th Grade.

My brother had a terrible time (as terrible as my experiences with spelling....(which if such a requirement existed I would still reside in a forth-grade-classroom.))

Therefore, my parents invested in a series of records....the times-tables, up to twelve. They got my brother through the test. (Good, Lord knows, you don't want to know what his job is TODAY!)

Use a I,IV,V progression and you can create any song for any table your child needs to learn.....You can even create poems, as our Fourth Grade Teacher did....probably the "hard-parts" will suffice...ie. 7's, 8's, 9's, teach the 8's as doubles of 4's.


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: GUEST,_gargoyle
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 09:02 PM

Yes, there are such songs.

It was once a "bench-mark-requirement" that a child "master" the multiplecation-tables in order to be promoted from 4th Grade.

My brother had a terrible time (as terrible as my experiences with spelling....(which if such a requirement existed I would still reside in a forth-grade-classroom.))

Therefore, my parents invested in a series of records....the times-tables, up to twelve. They got my brother through the test. (Good, Lord knows, you don't want to know what his job is TODAY!)

Use a I,IV,V progression and you can create any song for any table your child needs to learn.....You can even create poems, as our Fourth Grade Teacher did....probably the "hard-parts" will suffice...ie. 7's, 8's, 9's, teach the 8's as doubles of 4's.


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: Pete Peterson
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 09:46 PM

Good Lord, the connections around here! Lobachevsky (the song, not the man) doesn't teach any math, except that it was about the 3rd year of college before than I learned that "an analytic and algebraic equation of locally Euclidian metri(ci)zation of internally differential Riemannian manifold " actually made sense (and that the Bojemoi! exclamation on the end meant "Ohmygod" in Russian) I second the post about Schoolhouse Rock. The trouble with setting times table to music is that all the times tables are arbitrary; you could substitute one number for another and it would make just as much poetic and metric sense. (there is a song from Mewfoundland containing sailing directions which is just as arbitrary) but the really good songs are the ones in which the next line is almost pre-determined by what has come before. Not making much sense, but clear in his own mind (if I still have it) is PETE


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: Susan of DT
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 09:56 PM

not basic math, but for amusement check out [eleven thirds]


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 10:07 PM

CREEP ALERT
Mewfoundland? I'll take that for a typo, instead of assuming that 'spaw and kat have invaded.


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 10:19 PM

Was Lobachevsky done by Tom Lehrer or Danny Kaye? Or are they the same person? And yes, Pete, I understand what you said. I guess that's not a very good sign...


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: Pete Peterson
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 11:07 PM

I understand that Lobachevsky (composition of Tom Lehrer, and I have one of the old 10" LPs to prove it that my father bought back in 1954. But I digress) was inspired by a Danny Kaye routine called Stanislavsky, which I have never heard. I laugh hard enough trying to remember "the pellet with the poison's in the vessel with the pestle. . . " and yes, aren't typos wonderful? Do Catspaw and katlaughing live somewhere in Mewfoundland? Meow.


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Subject: RE: Help: Maths in Music
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 11:18 PM

Is this "Lobachevsky" anything to do with the Ultra-Orthadox Rabbi Kabbalist? Just curious.


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