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BS: A computer thought for the day
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Subject: A computer thought for the day From: Jon Freeman Date: 02 Mar 00 - 03:51 PM How is it that they managed to get a man to the moon with the assistance of compters with nothing like the proccessing power we have now bt people like my mate Bill can still make billions at providing unstable operating systems with what we have available no - would you fly to the moon using Windows? Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: MMario Date: 02 Mar 00 - 03:55 PM Jon, flying to the moon with windows would be very hard on the arms. wouldn't rockets be much more practical? oh - what aminute, you didn't mean USING windows....but still, would the air leak out of the spaceship if you had windows? not, I still don't think I would use windows to get to the moon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Amos Date: 02 Mar 00 - 04:06 PM \RANT ON See, Jon, the moon operation was entrusted to engineers. Since that time the industry has been flooded with monkeys hiding behind engineer masks. Another reason is that the engineers and other craftsmen in the moonshot were content being paid for honest work. Bill, on the other hand, not only wants to be paid, he wants to ship products which cost the users billions of dollars (collectively) in lost productivity, frustration, emotional pain and loss, suffering, unnecessary work, and self-abasement. Because he somehow convinced millions of people this was a Good Thing, he gets free quality review and bugfinding from his customers. That's brilliant, if devious. Then, see, he subsitutes marketing for engineering in addressing the issues thus found, thus saving thousands of dollars in engineering costs, since a college grad in Marketing can be put to work for a fraction of the cost of someone with a genuine SW Engineering degree. I have lost twelve hours in the last thirty six having to coddle his awful products to do something productive. And I'm an experienced user. God spare the newbie who wanders into the MS jungle... If the moon effort had been managed this way we would all be spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars on ugly plastic models of a rocket in order to support it's someday being able to go to the moon as soon as a few more bugs are out of it, and we would all be expected to debug ours and send in the results to NASA. Who would then have an advertising campaign about how great it will be when we do get to the moon. And we would all think this was a jolly good way to run the space business! \Rant OFF |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: jeffp Date: 02 Mar 00 - 04:09 PM Excellent rant, Amos! Bill Gates is the AntiChrist! |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: MMario Date: 02 Mar 00 - 04:31 PM no, I wouldn't grant him the dignity. he's a minor demon, but an extremely annoying one |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Clinton Hammond2 Date: 02 Mar 00 - 04:49 PM A GUI orbital and lander system!! LOL!! If you know what planet you're landing on please entere it's name here, Or you can let Windows lander scan the planet for you. Windows Lander has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down! ROTFLMFAO!!! Would you like to land? Yes/No
Windows...the worlds most commercially successful computer VIRUS!!! {~` |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Jon Freeman Date: 02 Mar 00 - 04:52 PM Loved yor rant Amos, for what it's worth, I am a PC user and a Windows user for various reasons. I am no expert but I do go back to days of CP/M and Vic 20's their Basic etc. so I like to think I have some experience even thought the www is new to me Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Amos Date: 02 Mar 00 - 04:59 PM LOL! Whadda picture! Clinton, you put your finger on it..."Page fault error. Details: 0FA8932C 0348B99D F000000Q! Oxygen system will now shut down. Please contact your system administrator." Then Houston gets to play tech support which is even funnier! ("Check if it's plugged in, Lander module...") (OK now cross your arms and stick your left pinky in the hole just to the right of the blue switch with the yellow letters on it...")
LOL...it occurs to me Bill doesn't have anyone as good as NASA had, and maybe that's because he has no mission anyone like that would be interested in knocking themselves out for. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 02 Mar 00 - 06:43 PM I used to be a happy user of OS2, the IBM equivalent of Windows. It was a stable. Period. "Then why aren't you still using OS2, Oesterreich?" I hear you asking. Because I couldn't get support from other vendors-- software vendors, computer vendors, printer vendors. Call them up and say, "My new (unameit) printer won't do thus-and-such like the manual says." "What version of Windows are you on?" "I'm on OS2." "Oh, it must be OS2 that's doing it, not our equipment, and we don't support OS2." So I had to hold my nose and go to what I knew beforehand was an unstable, hard-to-use system just because I couldn't get other vendors to support THEIR products. I have more operating system breakdowns in a month than I had in the four years I was on OS2. Dave Oesterreich
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Mbo Date: 02 Mar 00 - 06:54 PM Don't be too hard on PC's...I've been using them for 13 years, since I was 8 years old. I've never had any truly serious problems...I once accidentally deleted the whole Windows directory a few years ago...but I enjoy using Windows, despite naysayers. I'm learning how to use Macs now too...their very different, and in many ways the same. My only complaint: why is Mac gonna wise up and make a two-button mouse? --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Amos Date: 02 Mar 00 - 06:59 PM Drop over to Kensington -- they make a beautiful four-button fully programmable context sensitive trackball which is a dream to use. As well as Smart Mices. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Mbo Date: 02 Mar 00 - 07:05 PM Ye-YES! Now if I could get the School of Art to get some! --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Clinton Hammond2 Date: 02 Mar 00 - 07:10 PM Mmmmm... O/S2... I remember O/S2... but they lost the marketing war... just like Beta vs VHS... The O/S2 commercials on tv showed what the system would be able to do and such like... Gates hired The Rolling Stones to sing "Start Me Up" for the Win95 commercial, and that was the end of O/S2... unfortunatly... A good friend of mine used to have both OS's on his 'puter until recently when he just couldn't get anything more for O/S2, so he was kinda forced to remove it... He still laments this from time to time... Maybe Lunix will rule the world someday... {~` |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Escamillo Date: 03 Mar 00 - 12:31 AM Though I dream to be a programmer when I grow up, there have been almost 30 years I'm making a living programming computers, since those glorious times of the Digital PDPs. However what most amazes me is the fact that for the first time, we are using for serious and some critical jobs, an operating system like Windows, which has been designed for entertainment and personal education, advertised as an amusement machine, and maintained as much as a hamburguer. Then WHY we use it for serious work ? Because there are so many compatible products. This is the first time in history of computers that we have no choice, but use a toy. Of course there are mainframes, Alphas, Unix and the like, but I'm talking about the average business who can't afford a real system IF the same result can be achieved MORE OR LESS, with an equipment that costs 10 times less and thanks to programmer's and systems engineers' tears, sweat and blood, keeps running almost every day. END RANT Un abrazo - Andrés (who still finds a minute to sing) |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Sorcha Date: 03 Mar 00 - 12:50 AM From a totally igorant person: So what is better? What are my choices? I have only had a "Real" computer and been on-line since mid Dec-99. Windows seems to me to be a user friendly product, for stoooopid people like me, but I do get a lot of Error stuff, and "This computer has performed and illegal operation" etc. I have a sort of friend who is a programmer for HP, and he says: This is your computer on drugs" about Windows, but what do I know? Nada, pero Windows....... Is Mac an alternative to Windows, or something else entirely? Everything says, Not Mac Supported.........eh? Duh? From, Mrs. Stoooopid in Wyoming, USA. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Ringer Date: 03 Mar 00 - 05:15 AM Amos he say "we would all be spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars on ugly plastic models of a rocket". But I think (all due respect to Uncle Bill) that they'd be beautiful plastic models of a rocket. Give Windows its due: it looks good (pity about stability, memory hunger, speed, usefulness, etc etc).
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Ringer Date: 03 Mar 00 - 05:33 AM My son recently pirated the source-code of Windows-2000, & e-mailed it to me... /* Source Code to Windows 2000 */ |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Ringer Date: 03 Mar 00 - 05:34 AM Sorry about the (lack of) indentation: I forgot about that! Hopy you'll agree it's elegant in its simplicity, though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Jon Freeman Date: 03 Mar 00 - 05:46 AM Sorcha, I don't know anything about Mac's but I have one friend who swears by them. He is a cartographer and owns several. He tells me that in his field of work all the best software is for Mac's and also that he doesn't experience the illeagal operation type messages which seem to be an accepted part of normal life for us Windows users. When you are drawing comparisons, you have 2 separate issuues. There is the actual machines, PC and Mac and softeware that is called the operating system which as it's name implies basically controls how the computer behaves. The PC has used several operating systems including DOS, Windows, OS/2 anyone remember Gem or DOS Plus..? and IMO the Microsoft offerings have never been the best but have been the most popular - one thing I do give Bill Gates is that as a marketing man, he is brilliant - even today, Windows seems to carry a legacy from their own DOS - I am sure that anyone who has ever programmed in Windows knows the 64K one... I do beleive that the PC/ Windows combination is a sensible consideration for most users as it is affordable and a wealth of software is availabe and does work. I just feel that things should be better an we shouldn't have to accept crashes as being part of the routine. Of the operating systems mentioned in this thread, I am quite interested in looking at Linux which seems to be growing in popularity and am tempted to try Corel's offering which I read a very favourable write up for recently. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Jon Freeman Date: 03 Mar 00 - 05:59 AM I like it Bald Eagle but shouldn't it have #include DOS.h; ? Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Ringer Date: 03 Mar 00 - 06:20 AM Yes, probably. (And probably QDOS (Quick & Dirty O/S that Bill quickly bought up when he wanted to sell IBM an O/S for the then new IBM-PC & didn't have one to hand) and maybe even CP/M too, though who's being picky?) |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Jon Freeman Date: 03 Mar 00 - 06:55 AM Clinton, Just read your comment on Beta/ VHS. I have a freind that was a producer/ director for the BBC and this topic has cropped up in conversation with him. Apparently the BBC did hold out and stuck with the vastly superior Beta (possibly still use it). It seems that in the UK at any rate the professionals knew what they wanted but the general public got led the wrong way. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: AndyG Date: 03 Mar 00 - 07:25 AM This came to me by way of a.h.b-o-u without attribution. I think it pretty much sums up my level of respect for the Windows family of products (O/S's & Apps.)
WinFone98
"Oh my god, Mabel, call the police!"
Mabel picks up the receiver. The base unit pauses for ten seconds, then hard-drive noises emanate. In another ten seconds, a tinkling sound comes from the base unit as the display lights up with cute tiny telephones and the words "Microsoft Windows CE/PA". Mabel starts to dial, but the noises continue and no reaction is seen yet. Finally a dialing menu comes up. Mabel starts punching 9-1-1 again, but the base unit beeps annoyingly at each keypress and nothing happens. Mabel remembers and moves the handset away, looking for her glasses; she dons them and finds the eraserpoint and starts moving the cursor around. Slowly it goes over to the right, and Mabel pushes too soon; a list of telephone numbers comes up. The first eighty are 900 numbers for Microsoft Phone Support; she scrolls, hoping 911 will be in the list of nines. Finally she gives up and finds the menu box for direct number entry. She clicks in the box and starts to punch 9-1-1 again, but it beeps at her; she hasn't clicked the radio button for direct entry. This accomplished, she enters 911 in the number box.
The phone starts making crunching noises as the disk spins madly and the cursor turns into a clock-radio picture. Eventually a box appears over the dialing menu; it says "Loading 9 Resource. Please Wait..." Fifteen seconds later, the box changes to "Loading 1 Resource. Please Wait..." and in another fifteen seconds, "Loading Double-1 Resource. Please Wait..."
Finally a noise emanates from the handset; the phone has dialed what appears to be a very long number. Five anxious rings later, a voice says, "Thank you for calling Microsoft Emergency Headquarters. Please listen carefully to the instructions, because this menu has been changed recently. If you are ca" The "resource" boxes disappear from the display and the disk cranks some more as the phone loads the Microsoft Emergency HQ logo, which displays in ten seconds or so. Then the voice continues, "lling from a touch-tone phone, please dial 'MICROSOFT' now."
Mabel reaches for the 'M' button as a loud bang sounds. She looks over to see George falling to the floor, gutted by the .45 caliber bullet that went through his belly. The intruders have moved about half the basement furniture out to the truck now. She screams, then remembers the panic button on the alarm system.
Just then the alarm system display lights up with the "Microsoft Windows Alarm Manager" logo. She stares in blank numbness as the display slowly brings up several icons, then opens a large window that says "ALERT B604: Intruders detected in front yard." Well, of course they're in the front yard, she thinks. She reaches for the IRdA mouse in her nightstand drawer and moves the cursor to "Call Police". A new window opens up, displaying "Now opening communication channel to Microsoft Phone Manager... Please Wait." The receiver she dropped in haste starts saying "Attention, this call has been abor" The disk in the phone spins while the display loads the "Call Aborted" dialog; the phone waits for her to click "OK". She picks up the receiver and fumbles with the eraserpoint and gets it done. The receiver continues, "ted at the request of Microsoft Alarm Manager Communications. This voice channel is required to be cleared to enable emergency communications to the police department. Please hang up NOW." She does so; the disk spins; the display flashes "Opening communications channel... please wait". The alarm display begins to change, and a box displays "Communicating with Microsoft Phone Manager..."
Mabel hears a noise in the living room and peeks around the doorframe. The thieves have dropped a wrench while carefully packing the parts from the disassembled dining room table into a shipping frame. She turns back to hear the phone dialing again, and picks up the receiver. The alarm console begins to speak.
"Alert! Alert! Microsoft Alarm Manager has detected improper entry at the back door! Police will be alerted!" The disk spins as the phone displays "Aborting call... Channel needed for emergency communications". The Alarm Manager now displays "Now opening communication channel to Microsoft Phone Manager... Please Wait."
Mabel hears a truck engine start and doors slamming, some laughter and then the sound of the truck pulling away. She grabs for the receiver and hears "Chicago Police emer" *click* The disk spins in the phone, the Alarm Manager changes the display and announces, "Alert! Alert! Microsoft Alarm Manager has detected improper entry at the back door! Police will be alerted!" The phone displays "Aborting call... Channel needed for emergency communications". The Alarm Manager now displays "Now opening communication channel to Microsoft Phone Manager... Please Wait."
She hears a gurgle as her husband exhales his last breath. Hoping against hope that something will finally bring help rapidly, she reaches for the IRdA mouse and pushes the "Ambulance" button. Disks spin, then the Alarm Manager console opens a gray window saying "This Microsoft Alarm Manager program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down." She looks over to the phone display, now lit with "DIVIDE BY ZERO EXCEPTION" and a radio button that says "OK".
The room goes dark in two stages, each punctuated by the report of her husband's shotgun. A few seconds later, a passing squad car spits out two cops who draw their guns and proceed into the house to see what is happening. A telephone receiver flying through the doorway hits one in the chest, and they quickly subdue an incoherent Mabel and call for her ride to Madden.
AndyG |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Grab Date: 03 Mar 00 - 08:42 AM Jon, They very nearly didn't! The code for the lander was hugely buggy. The story I heard (off a BBC documentary not too long back) was that coming in to land, they had an error message coming up regularly which no-one knew what it meant, and they didn't know if it was serious or not, so they didn't know whether the lander was going to crash or explode or whatever. In the end, they decided that if the error came up more than once every 20 seconds or so they'd abort, and if it happened less often than that then they'd carry on! And with the recent Mars stuff, it looks like NASA are continuing in the same proud tradition... Grab. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: GUEST,flattop Date: 03 Mar 00 - 06:32 PM Did the computers used in the moon landing have operating systems? The first 4 bit micro computers came from space research and attempts to reduced the components used to manufacture a terminal. I believe that this 4 bitter and the popular 8 bit chips that followed, the 8008 and the 8080, were mainly booted to assembler programs. To me, that would imply that earlier control systems didn't have operating systems or structured languages like PLM for programming. I'd be happy if MACers stopped one-fingering the world. (I programmed cross-platform for several years.) In the MAC world you get different MACs that can't read each others' software. So if you upgraded to a powerMAC, you had to buy expensive new copies of PhotoShop. Althought it's not clearly spelled out in this thread, it sounds like someone got burned by rushing into Windows 2000. One of the old sayings in the systems field is that 'you can tell the pioneer by the arrows in their backs.' Windows 98 was a fix of Windows 95. Windows 98 is a very good product. You can virtually go to the moon on it. If you're struggling with NT, that's a different story. You might have to wait for Windows 2003 before you get a stable product - but it will be worth the wait. Operating systems are very complex. We take them for granted because they are relatively cheap. I think that Microsoft's products are very good, especially the Visual Studio set of developers' programs. Bill Gates has more money than he needs to buy Big Macs meals, but that's his problem and another story. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: GUEST,flattop Date: 03 Mar 00 - 06:39 PM "Maybe I will fly to the moon," said Little Bear. "And maybe," said Mother Bear, "you are a little, fat bear cub with no wings and no feathers." ______________ from Else Holmelund Minarik's 1957 masterpiece, Little Bear, with pictures by Maurice Sendak. Indubitably written and illustrated without a computer and without Photoshop. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Escamillo Date: 03 Mar 00 - 11:38 PM Bald Eagle, that was great ! AndyG, an alternative end for the story: She finally crawled to the main console to shut the full thing off, but she could never find the way out: she died, her hand grabbing the mouse, pointing to a label that read: "Start" . *** Screensaver *** Un abrazo - Andrés (another Andy) |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Hagbardr Date: 03 Mar 00 - 11:59 PM I've been a PC guy for many a year and I've spent all me money on upgrades and beer..... I've stuck with microsoft operating systems for one reason only: compatibility. I like the complex simplicity of Linux and UNIX much more than I like the simple complexity of Windows. Or was that the other way around? Apple's been putting out some awesome hardware recently though. And I hear MacOS X will be based on UNIX. Definately worth a try when it comes out. "Back in my day, we didn't have all these fancy high speed connections and graphics. I had to dial up to the 'net on a 1200 baud modem and read black and white text." "Modem? You were lucky! I had to call up the ISP on a rotary phone and whistle!" Hagbard |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Escamillo Date: 04 Mar 00 - 12:11 AM Hagbard, did you see those devices called "acoustic couplers" ? Ha! They were a frame with rubber holes where you was supposed to insert the phone handset, make everybody shut up, and let the thing purr it's information through the line ! I remember how painful was to be unable to use them because we all had old german black models of phones, and those gadgets were designed for the smaller American (or French) newer handsets !! oh, sorry, I'm getting old - Andrés |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Mooh Date: 04 Mar 00 - 01:19 PM I get to the moon in the following ways, and I'm always in the market for new routes: sex, music, fishing, not necessarily in that order, and sometimes simutaneously. Why go to the moon anyway? We ought to be concentrating on Earth now that we've screwed it up so much. BTW, I don't use a computer for these things, should I? |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: BlueJay Date: 04 Mar 00 - 01:48 PM One I just heard: Just think what the automotive industry would be like if Bill Gates had gone into cars instead of computers. We'd have cars that could go 300 miles an hour, and would get 200 miles per gallon of gas. Answer: Yeah, but would you really want it to crash twice a day? |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Troll Date: 04 Mar 00 - 03:58 PM My '83 Ford van is old and cranky and starting to rust and it gets lousy gas mileage but it's what I've got and so I drive it. Windows95 is what I've got and so I use it. In time I will replace the van. In time I will replace Windows95. I hope that in both cases I can afford something better but in the meantime I'll keep chuggin' along with what I've got. troll
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: GUEST,flattop Date: 05 Mar 00 - 11:34 AM A book on Japanese manufacturing said that when the U.S. government brought in the clean air act, the Americans called in their lawyers while the Japanese called in their engineers. Mooh, you told us how you get to the moon but how do you get to the earth. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Amos Date: 05 Mar 00 - 02:02 PM I was a deep-blue DOS/PC user until I bought my first Mac II in 1989 I think it was. SInce then I have had so many opportunities to be glad I'm using Macs I can't count htem -- just in terms of numbers of hours saved. I have been required to shift to Windows in my work environmnet, and while I great ly appreciate the growth and improvements in Windows in the last few years, I am still constantly being harassed with unfriendly errors and hangs and freezes and crashes. My 8100, now accelerated to G3 speeds, keeps trucking day in and day out, and even when I push it so hard it can't cope, it comes back up laughing in a less than a minute and picks up where I left off. I have never lost hours of work because the system did something unexpected. The compatability has been largely resolved for the main Office type apps and I don't have to put up with Bill's bullshit. Even Word works better in my Mac environment than in my WIndows one. And the ease of use factors save lots of hours in learning. Like any system, you have to know how to adjust the system and the more you know about how it works the better. But if its using a tool you want, instead of getting drawn into endless learning about computers, I would go the Mac path any time. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Jon Freeman Date: 05 Mar 00 - 02:15 PM uriosity quiestion Amos, when did Apple put out their first GUI type operating system? as far as I understand it is was long before MS and it worked first time well. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Amos Date: 05 Mar 00 - 02:42 PM Right. The Mac came before the public at SUperBowl 1984, with a point-and-click WIMP GUI. It was one or two years before MS came out with Windows, and the first couple of tries were so pathetic they didn't win much market share. But a great tragedy ensued -- the MS market share strategy combined with their open-architecture and resultant lower HW costs combined with Apple's market "attitude" and closed architecture shifted the market of installed platforms more and more toward PCs. When WIndows finally began to work somewhat, around 3.1., it pushed its way into that installed base. Through really sloppy market analysis and a mishmash of visions, Apple, with a superior fuindamental technology, managed to drive itself into a market share around 8% while MS share grew to 85%. (Rough numbers)., |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Peter T. Date: 05 Mar 00 - 02:44 PM Sorcha, I have worked with both systems over the years, and I prefer Mac's a lot. Their long-term advantages in design for beginners still remain -- easy filing, a reasonably coherent working environment, and easy connecting of things like printers. Later versons of Windows have patched on to its system some of these things, but the whole thing is still way too mixed up, and can drive a novice really crazy -- their simplifiers are often more complicated than the original complexities. If you have an orderly mind, stay away from Windows: its inconsistencies will drive you nuts. But for software and other compatibilities, you can't beat it. Also, if you use an older system with Windows that still uses MS-DOS (the underlying computing structure), someone who knows how computers work can fix things more easily than on MACs because you can get access to the basic code reasonably easily. MAC's are tougher to penetrate. I would never, ever work on a Microsoft product anymore unless I had no choice -- the only exception would be the presentation software, Powerpoint (and only up to about 4.0, after which it turned into Moby Dick, like all Ms products). But that is because I have used it for years. If MAC ever put out a decent substitute, I would switch. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A computer thought for the day From: Amos Date: 05 Mar 00 - 03:52 PM Well, Stevie Jobs had to suck the devil's own hind teat to keep Apple out of the sewer when he came back to it, and MS Office for the Mac was one of the byproducts of that. There are some competitors out there for PowerPOint but none with the universality which Gates very intelligently captured with his ruthless market-share campaigns. |