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Req:John of Hazelgreen/Jock O' Hazeldean Child 293

DigiTrad:
JOCK O' HAZELDEAN
YOUNG JOHNNY OF HAZELGREEN


Alan of Australia 14 Jun 97 - 12:09 AM
Alan of Australia 14 Jun 97 - 12:10 AM
dick greenhaus 14 Jun 97 - 07:01 PM
Alan of Oz 14 Jun 97 - 11:58 PM
Don Firth 03 Feb 11 - 08:44 PM
breezy 04 Feb 11 - 06:52 AM
Georgiansilver 13 Jun 12 - 04:16 AM
GUEST,Charles Macfarlane 13 Jun 12 - 04:27 AM
Joe Offer 29 Apr 16 - 09:04 PM
Bill D 29 Apr 16 - 10:14 PM
Bill D 29 Apr 16 - 10:17 PM
Tradsinger 30 Apr 16 - 03:23 AM
GUEST,Mike Yates 30 Apr 16 - 06:53 AM
Joe Offer 26 Apr 20 - 05:45 PM
JennieG 26 Apr 20 - 09:22 PM
cnd 26 Apr 20 - 09:26 PM
Reinhard 26 Apr 20 - 09:33 PM
Reinhard 26 Apr 20 - 09:43 PM
cnd 26 Apr 20 - 10:13 PM
cnd 26 Apr 20 - 10:14 PM
Reinhard 26 Apr 20 - 10:27 PM
Jim Carroll 27 Apr 20 - 02:35 AM
Dave Hanson 27 Apr 20 - 05:57 AM
Helen 27 Apr 20 - 04:40 PM
Helen 27 Apr 20 - 05:27 PM
Joe Offer 28 Apr 20 - 02:40 AM
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Subject: John of Hazelgreen
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 14 Jun 97 - 12:09 AM

JOHN OF HAZELGREEN, SUMMARY

In John of Hazelgreen a middle aged man comes across a maid crying by a creek and says, "What's up, Love?"

She says, "I dreamt about a young man called John Of Hazelgreen and he's tall, dark and handsome and I've got to marry him, but I don't know where he lives." (Why do dreams always leave something out?)

He says, "Forget him. You can marry my eldest son."

She says, "No! It must be John Of Hazelgreen."

He says, "If you'll forget him and marry my eldest son I'll give you gold combs for your hair." This doesn't sound very useful to me, so I'm not surprised she knocked that one back.

When he sees that she is faithful and constant and true he says, "Hop up on my horse, Honey, and we'll go and look for this John Of Hazelgreen - he sounds like a likely lad." Trusting soul that she is, she does, and off they go.

He pretends to go looking for this John Of Hazelgreen, but actually just takes her off home to his place. At this point I've got to tell you it doesn't turn out the way you think.

When he reaches his front gate his eldest son, John Of Hazelgreen, (he knew this all the time of course) is waiting for him and says, "G'day Dad, I've just had a dream about a beautiful damsel. I've got to find her and marry her. We'll find her crying by a creek."

The old man says, "I've saved you the trouble, Son, is this the one?"

They fall into each other's arms, the violins play and the credits roll up the screen. And it takes 34 verses.

When Sir Walter Scott heard this song it was over one hundred years old. He re-wrote it as Jock O' Hazeldean, telling a different story in four verses. I've gone back to the original (well one of the versions published by Child) and also produced a condensed version.

Continued...


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Subject: Lyr Add: JOHN OF HAZELGREEN
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 14 Jun 97 - 12:10 AM

^^JOHN OF HAZELGREEN

Child No. 293

:d>|s:-.m:r:-.d|d:m:s<:-.d|d:-.d:f:-.m|m:-:r
'Why weep ye by the tide, lady? Why weep ye by the tide?'
:d>|s:-.m:r:-.d|d.m:-:s<:-.s<|d.m:-:r:-.d|d:-:-:-
'I'm weeping for a comely youth that in my dreams I spied.
.m|f:-.m:f:-.s|l:s:d>:-.l|s:-.m:([triplet]r:m:s)|l:-:-
He is a tall and proper youth, so comely to be seen.'
:d>|s:-.m:r:-.d|d:m:s<:-.l<|d.m:-:r:-.d|d:-:-:||
And aye she loot the tears down fall for John o Hazelgreen.

'If ye'll forsake young Hazelgreen and go along with me
I'll wed you to my eldest son, make you a lady free.'
'It's for to wed your eldest son I am a maid o'er mean
I'd rather stay at home,' she says, 'and die for Hazelgreen.'

'Now hold your tongue my well-faired maid and let your mourning be
And all endeavours I shall make to bring that youth to thee.'
Then nimbly riding on their way they gently spurred their horse
Till they rode on to Hazelgreen, to Hazelgreen's own close.

Then forth he came, young Hazelgreen to welcome his father free
But when he looked upon the maid a light laugh then gave he
'This is the comely maid,' he said, 'I once saw in a dream
A walking through a pleasant glade as fair's a cypress queen.'

He's taken her into his arms led her through bower and hall
'Cheer up your heart my dearest dear, you're flower above them all.
This night shall be our wedding e'en, the morn we'll say Amen
Ye'll never more have cause to mourn, ye're Lady o Hazelgreen.'

This tune is from "The Singing Tradition of Child's Popular Ballads" Edited by Bertrand Harris Bronson.

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: John of Hazelgreen
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 14 Jun 97 - 07:01 PM

It's in the database (Jock O' Hazeldean). Only the name has been changed to confuse searchers. HAZEL* will locate it for you.


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Subject: RE: John of Hazelgreen
From: Alan of Oz
Date: 14 Jun 97 - 11:58 PM

Jock O' Hazeldean is Scott's rewrite with a different storyline.

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John of Hazelgreen
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Feb 11 - 08:44 PM

Thanks for that, Alan! Well done!

I might just take that on board, if it's okay with you.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John of Hazelgreen
From: breezy
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 06:52 AM

tonic solfa too, wow !


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John of Hazelgreen
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 04:16 AM

My take on the rewrite!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John of Hazelgreen
From: GUEST,Charles Macfarlane
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 04:27 AM

Best version ever of this song, Sir Walter Scott version, was by "The Corries on "Strings And Things" - utterly beautiful, one of the best tracks they ever recorded.


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Subject: RE: Req:John of Hazelgreen/Jock O' Hazeldean Child 293
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Apr 16 - 09:04 PM

Here's the Traditional Ballad Index entry on this song:

John of Hazelgreen [Child 293]

DESCRIPTION: A lady is weeping for John of Hazelgreen, whom she is not permitted to marry. She is offered marriage to another; this is little to her liking. By some means or other she meets Hazelgreen, and they are married
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1827 (Kinloch)
KEYWORDS: elopement love marriage separation
FOUND IN: Britain(England,Scotland(Aber,Bord)) US(MW,NE,SE,So) Canada(Mar,Newf)
REFERENCES (22 citations):
Child 293, "John of Hazelgreen" (5 texts)
Bronson 293, "John of Hazelgreen" (29 versions)
Whitelaw-Song, p. 22, "Jock o' Hazeldean" (1 text)
GreigDuncan5 1029, "Jock o' Hazel Green" (3 fragments, two of them on p. 624)
Lyle-Crawfurd2 117, "Johnie of Hazelgreen" (1 text)
SharpAp 43, "John of Hazelgreen" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #5a}
BarryEckstormSmyth pp. 369-371, "Willie of Hazel Green" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #27}
Flanders/Olney, pp. 237-238, "Young Johnny of Hazelgreen" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #25}
Flanders-Ancient4, pp. 281-284, "John of Hazelgreen" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #25}
Davis-Ballads 49, "John of Hazelgreen" (7 texts plus 2 fragments; the J text appears to have print influence; 3 tunes entitled "John o' the Hazelgreen," "John of Hazelgreen"; 1 more version mentioned in Appendix A) {Bronson's #3, #26, #2}
Davis-More 45, pp. 350-355, "John of Hazelgreen" (1 text, 1 tune)
BrownSchinhanIV 333, "Jock O' Hazeldean" (1 fragment, 1 tune)
Morris, #176, "John of Hazelgreen" (1 fragment, which is properly "Jock o' Hazeldeen")
Moore-Southwest 58A, "Jock o' Hazeldean"; 58B, "John of Hazelgreen" (2 texts, 2 tunes)
Scarborough-SongCatcher, pp. 225-227, "John of Hazelgreen" (2 short texts, with local titles "John over the Hazel Green"; 2 tunes on pp. 415-416) {Bronson's #8, #7}
Peacock, pp. 537-538, "Johnny from Hazelgreen" (1 text, 1 tune)
Leach, pp. 674-678, "John of Hazelgreen" (3 texts)
Friedman, p. 143, "John of Hazelgreen" (1 text)
McNeil-SFB1, pp. 91-92, "John of Hazelgreen" (1 text, 1 tune)
Niles 63, "John of Hazelgreen" (1 text, 1 tune)
Abrahams/Foss, pp. 95-96, "John of Hazelgreen" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #9}
DT 293, JOCKHZLD* JOCKHZL2*

Roud #250
BROADSIDES:
Firth b.26(534), "Hazle Green" ("As I walked one evening all for to take the air"), Webb and Millington (Leeds), n.d.
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "Nancy Dawson" (plot)
cf. "Lady Jean" (plot)
cf. "Parody on Jock o' Hazeldean" (parody)
ALTERNATE TITLES:
Jock o Hazeldean
John over the Hazel Green
Jock o Hazledean
NOTES: Rewritten by Sir Walter Scott as "Jock o Hazeldean" -- a poem which has become perhaps more popular than the original ballad, and which is included in many poetic works (e.g. it is item CCXXVII in Palgrave's Golden Treasury).
Scholars since Child have debated the extent to which the Scott text (said to take only a single stanza from the traditional song) is influenced or has influenced tradition. One thing appears certain: The Scott text and some of the traditional versions are related (e.g. Davis's "J" is about 85% identical to the corresponding stanzas of Scott's text). Either the Scott text used more than the single stanza claimed, or his text has influenced tradition. - RBW
Broadside Bodleian Firth b.26(534) is a shortened version of the story.
There are broadsides of Scott's text. For example, Bodleian, Johnson Ballads fol. 30, "Jock o' Hazel Dean" ("Why weep ye by the tide lady?"), J. Catnach (London), 1813-1838; also Harding B 26(290), 2806 c.14(45), "Jock o' Hazel Dean"n. - BS
Last updated in version 3.7
File: C293

Go to the Ballad Search form
Go to the Ballad Index Song List

Go to the Ballad Index Instructions
Go to the Ballad Index Bibliography or Discography

The Ballad Index Copyright 2015 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


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Subject: RE: Req:John of Hazelgreen/Jock O' Hazeldean Child 293
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Apr 16 - 10:14 PM

I must disagree with the last post in 2012. I have 'about' 70 versions, and while the Corries are very nice, I have about a dozen choices that I cant choose between.


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Subject: RE: Req:John of Hazelgreen/Jock O' Hazeldean Child 293
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Apr 16 - 10:17 PM

(My mind goes back over 30 years, when Jean Redpath began the 2nd half of a concert by just walking back onstage and **hitting** that opening line and totally silencing all the muttering & chatting in the audience.)


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Subject: RE: Req:John of Hazelgreen/Jock O' Hazeldean Child 293
From: Tradsinger
Date: 30 Apr 16 - 03:23 AM

Interesting Gloucestershire gypsy version here http://glostrad.com/johnny-from-hazelgreenhazeldean/
Tradsinger


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Subject: RE: Req:John of Hazelgreen/Jock O' Hazeldean Child 293
From: GUEST,Mike Yates
Date: 30 Apr 16 - 06:53 AM

For another collected version, this time from the late,and wonderful, Packie Manus Byrne of Donegal, see Musical Traditions CD "The Birds Upon the Tree" - MTCD 333. Packie called it "Johnny o'Hazelgreen" and had learnt it from his aunt, "Big" Bridget Sweeney of Meenagolin, who, in turn, may have picked it up from Packie's "grand-uncle" who had learnt it whilst working in Scotland.


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Subject: RE: Req:John of Hazelgreen/Jock O' Hazeldean Child 293
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 05:45 PM

Forty times I kissed her lips - Elizabeth LaPrelle version. Anybody got lyrics?


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Subject: RE: Req:John of Hazelgreen/Jock O' Hazeldean Child 293
From: JennieG
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 09:22 PM

Not lyrics, no......but might I suggest a good lip balm? Forty times, geez......


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Subject: RE: Req:John of Hazelgreen/Jock O' Hazeldean Child 293
From: cnd
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 09:26 PM

Elizabeth has a website with the lyrics to all of her albums, but I don't see a song by that name. Click http://elizabethlaprelle.com/lyrics


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Subject: RE: Req:John of Hazelgreen/Jock O' Hazeldean Child 293
From: Reinhard
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 09:33 PM

It's from Victoria Morris, Brown's Cove, Virginia, collected by Arthur Kyle Davis, 10 March, 1933, and printed in his book "More Traditional Ballads of Virginia" (1960).


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Subject: RE: Req:John of Hazelgreen/Jock O' Hazeldean Child 293
From: Reinhard
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 09:43 PM

cnd, that site only has Elizabeth's solo albums. John of Hazelgreen is on Anna & Elizabeth, The Invisible Comes to Us, Smithsonian Folkways 2018. I can't find lyrics on the duo's website.


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Subject: Lyr Add: JACK OF HAZELGREEN (Anna & Elizabeth)
From: cnd
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 10:13 PM

As I were walking one fair May morning
All down by the greenwood side
And there I spied a pretty fair miss
And all alone she cried

"You're welcome home, my pretty fair miss
You're welcome home with me
And you?may?have?my oldest son
A?husband for to?be."

"Oh, I don't want your oldest son
For he's neither lord nor king
I never intend to be the bride of none
John over the Hazelgreen."

As I were riding an ink black road
The road run near to the town
All up stepped John my Hazelgreen
And helped his lady down

His hair were long, his shoulder were broad
He was the flower of all his kin
His hair hang down like links of gold
John over the Hazelgreen

Thanks for the tip Reinhard, found it now.

'Tis forty times he kissed her cheeks
And forty times her chin
And forty times her red and rosy lips
And led his lady in

"If ever I a vow break on you my love
Oh, heaven will forsake on me
And send me down to the torment place
Where I never returntity."

From Genius, listen here


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Subject: RE: Req:John of Hazelgreen/Jock O' Hazeldean Child 293
From: cnd
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 10:14 PM

Oops, I swear I had included a thank you to Reinhard for pointing me in the right direction in that message but I must have forgotten. Anyways, thanks for the tip Reinhard.


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Subject: RE: Req:John of Hazelgreen/Jock O' Hazeldean Child 293
From: Reinhard
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 10:27 PM

You did but in mid-verses ;-)

Some small corrections:

Fourth verse:
As I were riding *the* ink black road

Fifth verse:
His hair were long, his *shoulders* were broad

Last verse:
Where I never *return to thee*


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Subject: Lyr Add: JOHNNY O' HAZELGREEN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 02:35 AM

This is Packie Byrne's version with mike Yates's note
Jim Carroll

Johnny o' Hazelgreen (Roud 250, Child 293)
Packie Manus Byrne Donegal, though living in Manchester when this was recorded in 1964.

One night as I rode o'er yon lea, with moonlight shining clear:
I overheard a fair young maid. lamenting for her dear.
She did cry as I drew nigh, the better it might have been;
For she was letting the tears roll down, for Johnny o' Hazelgreen.

'What is your trouble, my lovely maid, or what caused you to roam?
Is it your father or mother that's dead, or have you got no home?
My parents they are both alive, and plainly to be seen;
But I have lost my own true love, called Johnny o' Hazelgreen.

What sort of boy is your Hazelgreen? He's one I do not know.
He must be a braw young lad, because you love him so. '
'His aims are long, his shoulders broad, he’s comely to be seen,
And his hair is rolled like chains of gold, he's Johnny o' Hazelgreen.

Dry up your tears my lovely maid, and come along with me.
I’ll have you wed to my only son, I never had one but he.
Then you might be a bride, ' I said, 'to any Lord or King. '
'But I’d far rather be a bride, ' said she, 'to Johnny o' Hazelgreen.

’She got on her milk-white steed, and I got on my bay.
We rode along that moonlight night, and part of the next day.
When we came up to the gate, the bells began to ring.
And who stepped out but the noble knight, they called Johnny o' Hazelgreen.

You’re welcome home, dear father' he said. You're welcome home to me.
You've brought me back my fair young maid, I thought l'd never see.’
The smile upon her gentle face, as sweet as grass is green.
So I hope she’s enjoying her married life, with Johnny o' Hazelgreen.

Mike Yates writes: When I first got to know Packie he asked me to record some of his whistle tunes so that he could send a tape to a relative in Canada. Accordingly, he came round to my home one evening and we recorded the tunes. I had been reading Evelyn Wells' book The Ballad Tree at the time and, knowing that Packie knew some songs, I followed Evelyn's advice and asked Packie if he knew the one 'about the milk-white steed'. "God, yes." He said. "But I haven't sung that in years." I switched on the tape machine and Packie's sang me a version of Johnny o' Hazelgreen. It was possibly the first version to come from an Irish singer and I was just about knocked out. This is that early recording, and not the one that appeared on Packie's Topic LP Songs of a Donegal Man (12TS257).
Professor Child included five Scottish versions of Johnny o Hazelgreen in his collection, all of which date from the early part of the 19th century and, in the form rewritten by Sir Walter Scott, the ballad has proven especially popular in Scotland.
Versions have also turned up in North America. Packie believes that the ballad was taken to Donegal by his grand-uncle, who had learnt it whilst working in Scotland, and who had taught the song to Packie's aunt, 'Big' Bridget Sweeney of Meenagolin, County Donegal, who in turn taught it to Packie.


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Subject: RE: Req:John of Hazelgreen/Jock O' Hazeldean Child 293
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 05:57 AM

Dick Gaughan does a very fine version of this song.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Req:John of Hazelgreen/Jock O' Hazeldean Child 293
From: Helen
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 04:40 PM

Back in the '80's I met an American woman and her family who were living here for about three years. She plays harp and sings and I was just struggling to learn harp because there were no teachers in this city apart from the classical harpist at the music Conservatorium and I am more interested in the folk or Celtic style.

She used to sing the Child No. 293 version and accompany herself on the harp. It suits the harp and it has a good melody and rhythm. I think she heard it on an album and as I was working in a library at the time I found the Child Ballads books and looked it up.


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Subject: RE: Req:John of Hazelgreen/Jock O' Hazeldean Child 293
From: Helen
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 05:27 PM

"JOCK O' HAZELDEAN" (Child 293)_Jean Redpath

Dick Gaughan - Jock O' Hazeldean 1972

And a lot of other versions on YouTube.


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Subject: ADD: Version: John of Hazelgreen Child 293
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Apr 20 - 02:40 AM

JOHN OF HAZELGREEN

1. As I were walking one fair May morning,
All down by the greenwood side,
And there I spied a pretty fair miss,
And all alone she cried.

2. “You’re welcome home, my pretty fair miss,
You’re welcome home with me,
And you may have my oldest son,
A husband for to be.”

3. “Oh, I don’t want your oldest son,
For he’s neither lord nor king,
I never intend to be the bride of none,
John over the Hazelgreen.”

4. As I were riding an ink black road,
The road run near to the town,
All up stepped John my Hazelgreen,
And helped his lady down.

5. His hair were long, his shoulder were broad,
He was the flower of all his kin,
His hair hang down like links of gold,
John over the Hazelgreen.

6. ‘Tis forty times he kissed her cheeks,
And forty times her chin,
And forty times her red and rosy lips,
And led his lady in.

7. “If ever I a vow break on you my love,
Oh, heaven will forsake on me,
And send me down to the torment place,
Where I never returntity.”*


* Mrs. Morris’ last line is not entirely clear, but phonetically this seems to be what she said. Perhaps she has confused two known readings: “Where I never return to thee” and “Throughout eternity.”


Thanks to Reinhard, who pointed me to these lyrics. He says: It's from Victoria Morris, Brown's Cove, Virginia, collected by Arthur Kyle Davis, 10 March, 1933, and printed in his book "More Traditional Ballads of Virginia" (1960) - #45 AA: John of Hazelgreen


I like the way this book is set up. Each chapter is a fairly extensive study of one song, with copious notes. And I really like this version.

Here's the Anna and Elizabeth recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeeFKI_otCY


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