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BS: Cyberspace Friendships II
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Amos Date: 23 Mar 00 - 03:48 PM Like wise, DWDitty... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: dwditty Date: 23 Mar 00 - 03:44 PM Refresh. Just want you all to know how much I appreciate you. DW |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: dwditty Date: 23 Mar 00 - 06:07 AM Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers for our beloved Jeremy. I am truly blessed to have you all as FRIENDS. I have often told people about the 'cat and how wonderful it is to use this this otherwise insideous technology to bring so much to each other. When 'Spaw was sick last year, the love poured forth. I was amazed when that happened so spontaneously following Big Mick's original post. I have not been surprised the many times it has happened since. I know I am not alone when I say that many times my heart has soared or ached, as the case may be, in response to the postings here. Those feelings are very, very real. Those are the feelings that are created by friends. I remain yours, DW (not ddw) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: catspaw49 Date: 23 Mar 00 - 12:30 AM Its a very unusual place in a lot of ways ceit.......I'm glad that you see the sincerity of it. Some have felt that all of this was so much drivel, but there truly is a camaraderie and a caring feeling here that comes across the screen. 3-D meetings of 'Catters has worked out very well and the friendships here may be different in form, but they are certainly real. Glad to have you among us. Your last post tells all.....you're a 'catter! spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: ceitagh Date: 23 Mar 00 - 12:00 AM H'lo everybody! When the cyber-friends thread first went around, I posted a rather lengthy post on the thought that it was impossible to have a truly 'fleshed out' (so to speak) friendship with some one who was no more than words on a screen. And so i believed. But hanging around you 'cats, I've come to realise that maybe i've been missing out on something, 'cause if what you have ain't friendship, I don't know what it is! People, reaching out to touch each other, whether it be physically or by letter, or phone, or 'net...that's the basis of friendship, and i can't remember the last time i saw this much caring in a community. You guys reach out to the hurting (and best wishes to you ddw and Allen), gently chide the mistaken (where else could that message from GUEST turned into such a welcoming and affirming thread?), encourage each other and gracefully grow and change together. Lovely! I'm looking forward to getting to know each of you better! Pax, ceit |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: katlaughing Date: 22 Mar 00 - 11:19 PM Kevin, that is absolutely charming! Max should use that as an opening song for the radio show, as well as the others he already has. I love your voice; it goes well with your wonderful talent for writing songs. Who knew when Rick coined the term it would gain such stature?**BG** kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Mar 00 - 09:31 PM "ferweee"? "ferwee"? I'm turning into Bugs Bunny - time I wnet ot bed. ("FREE!") |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Mar 00 - 09:29 PM Just push on the clicky thing Peter, and the song crackles out. (If you've can play RealAudio files, which is a ferwee download) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: alison Date: 22 Mar 00 - 07:30 PM Allan, Kelly, DWDitty, I can express any better than others above me what I am feeling....... but I am thinking of you all. Kelly take a self defence class, if nothing else you get the chance to picture him as one of those punch bags and beat the crap out of him. I found it helps.... slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: GUEST,Peter T. Date: 22 Mar 00 - 07:17 PM McGrath, what a great song. I must have missed it before. Love to hear it someday. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Mar 00 - 07:11 PM Back in October I came upon the Mudcat, and was knocked out.I still am. Warts and all (and there are a few warts, as shown up in "the unpleasantness" - I like that term. It's a bit like the way the Second World War was referred to in Ireland as "The Emergency"), it's somethinghvery speacial. So I wrote this song, and it seems pretty relevant again to this thread - expecially the last verse. If you want to hear it, I've worked out how to put songs on my website, and this is one of them. But to save you going there, just click on this. The singing and recording is not great, be warned, but the tune is there ok. (You'll need some kind of RealAudio, free from here)
I don't know if the line breaks will come through on the song below - If they don't I'll be right back and put them in.
The Blue Clicky Thing
I spied it one day, I was trawling the net,
I was off on a ride and admiring the view,
There are names you can mutter and photos to see,
Well I try to explain, and you might understand,
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Amos Date: 22 Mar 00 - 02:48 PM Peter T., you are a clear voice and true, and much appreciated. On a less sentimental note (I can't go around crying in the office, now can I?) I think the design of this environment, the 'Cat, is a wonderful study in the architecture of a social invention. Social inventions are made of communication channels and designed limits and freedoms to those channels, and some sort of principles about who is on them, and so on. Maybe the greatest piece of social engineering in our history was the U.S.' own Constitution, not from a narrow patriotic sense but because it embodied the greatest experiment in individual freedom and responsibility yet launched in a world whose traditions were mostly based on authoritatarian and dictatorial systems. The invention sure has worked, no mistake. Not that it hasn't accumulated some sludge in its bilges over the last couple of centuries. The Mudcat is a similarly fascinating social invention with freedoms, limits, mechanisms that are required and others which are open-ended for the participants to play at will. The balance, due both to the intelligence of design and the intelligence and compassion of the participants is a very sturdy, high-energy, high-emotion environment that seems to be surviving beautifully. (I don't mean financially, I mean socially). It's a study in how it should be done, especially the way in which Max forebore from imposing any constraints in some areas, such that people here feel free to communicate. Sorry for running on...just let me add that I am of the opinion that communications freedoms are a necesary part of a successful group or team...and I think Max was very smart to provide sturdy channels without constraining what went on them, sparked only by the initial core theme of the music. He done good, good, good. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: GUEST,Peter T. Date: 22 Mar 00 - 01:36 PM Sorry I only came across this today, and cannot read the earlier thread because of its size. Ddw and Allan, you are in my thoughts. Like others, I feel inadequate to respond appropriately.
Human beings are so strong, and yet so vulnerable to violence and death at the same time. It is very strange, this life we lead. Friendship, love, ommunity and family are where both of these -- strength and vulnerability -- mingle, change, can be shared, expressed. That is why they are so precious, and yet often seem inadequate. But their existence grapples with that inadequacy -- like Jacob wrestling with the angel of life and death -- which maybe is what makes them friendship, love, community, family in the end. In my thoughts and prayers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Amos Date: 22 Mar 00 - 01:33 PM Yes, ma'a'm Jeri -- you have a fine touch indeed. A writer, as I live and breathe! Well said, and I second the sentiment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: canoer Date: 22 Mar 00 - 01:31 PM Nicely put Jeri. "It's why we want to." Very, very nice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Jeri Date: 22 Mar 00 - 01:04 PM I've tried several times to say something to both DW and Kelly (via Allan), and ended up clearing the message because the words sounded lame. They still may, but please consider this a mumbled "I care, and I'm sorry these things happened to you, and I feel totally ineffective. But I care." Jeremy sounds like he had a profound effect on a lot of people's lives, and that's all any of us can hope for. We all can make a difference to others. Jeremy will live on in the memory of everyone who's lives he touched. Kelly, The Beanster said no one knows how they'll react in such a situation, and it's true. We all think we know, but we can't until it really happens. What happened to you was truly horrifying. I hope the fear soon begins to fade into memory, and you're left remembering that what you did made all the difference in the outcome. Mudcat seems to be a place to make friends. For the most part, we imagine others sitting in front of their computers typing, and we imagine how they'll feel when they read our words. We try to imagine how they felt when we read what they wrote. We're more likely to read what people say, instead of what we think they mean. Other places on the Internet, people are often flamed or ridiculed for discussing their feelings, as opposed to just their opinions. The fact that it doesn't often happen here is why we can argue without seeing people with opposing views as evil incarnate. It's why we can forgive, and it's why we want to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 22 Mar 00 - 12:50 AM I tried to reply to this thread twice and my computer went daft, do here goes again. When I first started coming to Mudcat, before I joined, I saw the healing threads, and I thought; "What a really nice group of caring people with positive, uplifting attitudes for one another." Then came the "unpleasantness" and the threads disappeared. I am truly, truly sorry that it took Jeremy and Kelly to bring them back, but my thoughts, prayers and thanks are with them and their families. All the best, Seamus P.s Maybe Support Thread would be a more appropriate name? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Amos Date: 21 Mar 00 - 11:30 PM BEanster, That's exactly how it feels -- that soemone who is one of our own should inherit so rough a turn of the dice brings out the heartache in me big time. Mick, lad, you have put your big fat finger right on it. Well said and thanks. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: The Beanster Date: 21 Mar 00 - 11:13 PM Dear DW--I went back to the old thread and read about Jeremy, and even though I don't know you and you don't know me, I feel deeply for you. I'm so sorry. It seems that some of the best people in our lives, we only have for a short period of time and then we have to "give them back." My heart goes out to you and your family, my friend. Allan C.--Again, we are strangers to each other but nonetheless, I feel very emotional when I think of what your daughter experienced and also, of what you and your family must have felt upon hearing about it. My gosh, I was relieved when you said Kelly got away. A woman never knows how she'll react in a situation like that (although we all think about it) but now Kelly knows. She's a fighter and a survivor. Bless her heart. And I think kat/katlaughing gave some good advice about the self-defense classes. It's a terrific way to feel empowered and in control again after something like this shakes you to the core. And I have to add, you Mudcatters are something else. I've been really touched by the responses here. It's as if you've all touched your fingertips to the glass in your computer screens to send out these wishes of strength and healing. You're good folks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: canoer Date: 21 Mar 00 - 10:58 PM Allan,
I think I would like Kelly to know that her presence of mind, her strength, her courage, and her fighting spirit can be a helping example to others. We can't stop bad things from coming at us. But if we can rise to meet them as she did, nothing more can be asked of us.
My admiration, and best wishes. --Larry C. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Big Mick Date: 21 Mar 00 - 10:42 PM I am sitting here reeling with what our friends are going through just now. Goddamit, but you work hard to make this place better and something like these things happen to friends and it makes you want to go back to a "take it into your own hands" mentality. But ddw, and our dear Kelly, it ain't about it being fair. It never will be. It is about getting up everytime the bastards knock you down. It is about the journey. Please turn to those that love you, but most importantly turn to yourself. Grieve, be pissed, rage at the heavens..........then get up and go back at it. The only alternative to this is madness............ You have my sincerest affection and prayers. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Escamillo Date: 21 Mar 00 - 10:28 PM Let me add a word of friendship to those who suffered loses and horrible experiences. Our thoughts are with you, friends. Un abrazo - Andrés |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: annamill Date: 21 Mar 00 - 09:19 PM Damn Allan! It's going to be very hard for her in the next months. She will need understanding and love which I have no doubt she'll have plenty of. I send many hugs and love. I've been through a couple of traumatic things myself and I know what she will go through. Scary. Damn! Love, annap |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Rick Fielding Date: 21 Mar 00 - 08:03 PM Allan, that is so frightening. We are truly shocked, and hope things will feel better quickly. Rick and Heather |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: catspaw49 Date: 21 Mar 00 - 07:21 PM dw, Allan, and others........I hope you are as buoyed by this thread and the many folks on it as I am. Its one of the best things of the 'Cat and goes far in explaining the cyber friendships here. I hope we have buoyed you in the same way I feel now. We are fortunate to have this place and these friends, however they may exist. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: SingsIrish Songs Date: 21 Mar 00 - 06:30 PM Allan C...What a shock! Thank God Kelly was able to avoid a worse experience, as terrifying as what she went through was...I am at a loss for words. We can easily forget that life is so fragile! Another of our Mudcat friends (who shall remain anonymous) had a family scare last week when his Mother suffered a mini-stroke. Luckily it was only the one "episode" and she is expected to make a full recovery--Thank God! Well wishes to everyone! Mary
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Callie Date: 21 Mar 00 - 06:22 PM Kelly, my thoughts are with you. You were brave and smart, and got through a horrible experience. I hope many good things come your way and you can put this behind you. Callie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Allan C. Date: 21 Mar 00 - 04:55 PM The name Kelly means "warrior". Seems rather fitting here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: katlaughing Date: 21 Mar 00 - 04:25 PM Instant Karma can definitely happen, bigtime! Allan, when Kelly is ready, I would urge her to take a self-defense class for women, if she hasn't already. My daughters and I took one years ago and there are a dozen ordinary things or more that a person of less strength, stature, etc. can do to combat such a thing. Besides which, a class like that, can help in rebuilding one's confidence and letting go of a constant fear as a result of such an attack. I love that a tree helped to save her. I shall think of that next time I go out to water my one, lone tree. Brave woman, Kelly. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Allan C. Date: 21 Mar 00 - 04:16 PM I will be copying this thread to Kelly - she is currently without a computer - who I know will appreciate the kind words spoken here. (Aye, and even the unkind ones, Dave!) Kelly has a good network of friends who are helping to support her.
As for me, I have thought about firing up the barbecue in the back yard and then going out to look for that guy. But there is another part of me that has considerable faith in Divine retribution. Life isn't always fair about these things. But sometimes the Powers That Be send forth an awesome vengeance which is bestowed upon certain deserving people. My hope is that this one will not escape notice.
The frustration comes in knowing that I, as a parent, am powerless to protect my daughter from this kind of harm.
And in the same moment as that thought comes to me, I think of DWDitty and how he and his relatives must feel about their inability to prevent the loss of someone so dear. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: katlaughing Date: 21 Mar 00 - 04:10 PM Allan, I am so sorry this happened, but so grateful she was strong and escaped. My daughter and I were randomly shot at while I was driving her to the hospital in the middle of the night a few years ago. Give Kelly and yourselves all the time you need and can to deal with the shock, anger, thankfulness that she survived. It may take a long time before she feels safe, again. I was unable to go out driving at night, alone, for over a year after that happened. Keep her close and love her. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Caitrin Date: 21 Mar 00 - 03:46 PM I'm glad Kelly came out of it physically ok, Allan. That's a tough thing to recover from...I hope she heals soon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: GUEST,Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 21 Mar 00 - 02:55 PM Allan C.. Words fail me.. Kelly bravely resisted and thank God she was not hurt, that will comfort her later. Her world has changed because of the actions of a bad bastard. I pray that she will recover from her fear; and that your family will recover their sense of security, it must be a horrible experience for you all. Anyone I caught doing this would pray for the police to arrive, the only way he would survive my anger. The Useless Bastard. Yours, Aye. Dave (I appologise for my bad language Mudcat ladies) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Clifton53 Date: 21 Mar 00 - 02:22 PM Allen C., I'm so glad to hear she got away! My prayers and good wishes for her, and you. I am always amazed at how fast our lives can change. Ditty, my condolences on your loss. I lost a few friends years ago in Round Valley, N.J., same type of thing. I know he will be well-remembered and cherished. A young man like that is tough to lose, there being so few of them. I think every day of the safety of my children, and I wince when I read these kinds of stories. I can't fathom what either of you are going through now. You can take great comfort in the folks here at the Mudcat, but then, you already know that. Best wishes to all CLIFTON 53
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: MMario Date: 21 Mar 00 - 02:06 PM I was going to post - but am so unable to express what I feel. Allan, my thoughts are with you , Kelly and your family. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Little Neophyte Date: 21 Mar 00 - 01:53 PM Allan, I am so sorry Kelly had to go through such a nightmare and all you have to work through now. I feel deeply for you and very thankful Kelly is physically okay and safe now. Such a horrible thing to have to go through. Bonnie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: catspaw49 Date: 21 Mar 00 - 01:45 PM And Allan......You tell it here as you know, because you can....among friends.....and THAT is what friendship of whatever type is about. Take care of her and yourself and the family....and know always that we're here. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Amos Date: 21 Mar 00 - 01:39 PM Oh my god, Allan! Thank heaven her strategy worked!!!! Bring her to a safe place for a few days if you can to recover from the shock. Jesus H. Xmas... I am so glad she got away .... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: catspaw49 Date: 21 Mar 00 - 01:38 PM As I'm sure you and her family will, get and give to her all the support she needs. I'm glad she was able to handle herself as well as she did, but the shock of the thing will be there. Take a deep breath Allan. I'm soory my friend, but the world just sucks sometimes. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Allan C. Date: 21 Mar 00 - 01:33 PM My mind is still trying to digest all I have heard in the past few minutes. My daughter, Kelly, was attacked last night. She was just getting out of her car in the parking lot of the place she is currently living, and was attacked and dragged into the adjacent woods by an unidentified male. Kelly managed to latch onto a tree and was able to hold on long enough to make his task more difficult than he seemed to have planned for. Then she screamed loud enough to be heard in the nearby apartment house. The attacker was gone as suddenly as he had appeared. Kelly seems to be physically intact except for a scrape on her face. But she is frightened to her core. I am at a loss for words. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Rick Fielding Date: 21 Mar 00 - 01:10 PM I've been pretty busy lately and missed your notice of Jeremy's passing. Heather and I are so very sorry about your loss. Thank you for sharing it here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: katlaughing Date: 21 Mar 00 - 01:07 PM DW, please accept my condolences. How difficult and sad it must be for you and your family. Losing someone, especially someone who is so young, is not easy to understand nor cope with, but I am grateful you feel comfortable enough to let us all know and to share with us. Please know if there is anything I can do to help, I am here. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: annamill Date: 21 Mar 00 - 12:55 PM I must be really busy indeed to have missed this warming thread. I once had a friend tell me that to make your home a happy one, fill it with what you love. Mudcat has given me ample opportunity to do just that. Beautiful people, magnificent music, good friendships. It's almost a year I've been here. It was May last year that I found this place, and I haven't been able to stay away very long. Thank you all, Oldies AND newbies, for being here. Love, annap |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: GUEST,Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 21 Mar 00 - 12:34 PM Quick post from work... DW my sincere condolences, there are precious few words that can help. I know your grief, take what comfort you can from us here, because we care. I enjoy this community very much. Some people exercise caution before confiding personal information, and that is reasonable. Since I am easy to find I do not mind meeting strangers, and have no fear of doing so. After travelling all over the world in rough places, I have no fear of meeting people from Mudcat, It would be a pleasure. I shall be delighted to meet any of you that travel to Halifax. Yours,(Friendly Mariner)Aye. Dave |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Mar 00 - 12:32 PM DW-- Awww... a new friend of my heart... come often... please... ... when you think of Jeremy and there's no place to put the thought, I'll be here.... and I'll think of your sweet way of saying the big things in life, and of Jeremy, at the next funeral I attend-- my pastor-husband does a lot of them and... never mind, just come. ~Susan~
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: dwditty Date: 21 Mar 00 - 12:06 PM Thank you, Praise. You are absolutely right. So often, people look to their shoes when facing a grieving friend, when, at that time, more than ever, the griefstricken need direct confirmation that their loved one was worthy of recognition. I have asked so many to be sure to share their "Jeremy moments" with Jeremy's parents and sister - not just now but in the weeks and months and years to come. It is now that Jeremy has gone (although I prefer to say that he has gone fishin'), that we who loved him need his spirit refreshed by others who knew him. My daughter and I were talking last night, and she said she thinks almost everyday about her friend who died a couple of years ago. I told her that she should call or write his mother and tell her just that - that Ryan's spirit is still very much alive in her. She said that she had wanted to but was afraid to stir up memories. I told her to stir away. Memories are all his mother has, and she needs to know that others are still loving her son. It does seem easier to do this through the anonimity of the web, but I realize, just now, that I need to carry this practice to my "face-to-face" world. It will be a better place for it. Thank you again for your kind words. DW |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Amos Date: 21 Mar 00 - 12:04 PM It is also good to notice IMHO that one thing about this kind of community which nourishes fiendship is that it takes place outside the theater of survival efforts in which we all must engage. When someone comes to this forum, they have for the most part put aside the trials and tribulations of battling for a living. Deeper issues -- our longer term hopes, our bigger celebrations and profounder losses and most of all our most important reflections --- things which don't have an outlet when fighting for market share or product completion or profitable sales or grant money or completed theses or finished framing jobs or whatever -- have an opportunity to come up and be treated. Which is very very good. And goes toward explaining the real habituating power of the forum. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: SingsIrish Songs Date: 21 Mar 00 - 11:55 AM I was still composing when the Part II was started, so I will add my post here as well.... --------------- DW--my deepest condolences I offer to you and your family... --------------- The Healing threads that have been seen at Mudcat really changed my already good views of Mudcat and made them even stronger...I think it started when Spaw took ill--I was still "new" here and the emotions and pulling together that came through in those threads really touched me. And in other threads, not just Healing threads, there are some thoughts shared that have caused me to get a bit "misty eyed"... The thread name tags are surely helpful, and maybe more will be added for not all "non-music" stuff is accurately labeled BS... When people here share their inner most thoughts on sensitive and serious issues (and not so serious, too) what they are made of shines through...and that is true even if you "hold back" some strong views. Christian, non-Christian, etc, have all pulled together in times of great need. That is important...With so much violence and war due to differing views, it is nice when people from all over the world can get together and focus more on the commonalities and show our individuality in our views without it being a problem...(at least that's my feeling here at Mudcat.) I enjoy the community here! I also know I can call you fellow 'catters friends! Mary
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Mar 00 - 11:46 AM What I find myself still thinking about is... where DWDitty said, "Dear Mudcatters, I have not been around in quite a while, and, in fact, have not even had time to read this whole thread. I do feel the need to post here, though. Last Thursday..." ... isn't the whole point to respond to, contained in that? Isn't it that simple? Isn't the most basic need expressed there and can't it be answered there? Such as-- DWDitty, I am glad you can come here, I am glad you did, I am glad Jeremy was so wonderful.... I'm glad for the glimpse of him you give us... thank you for letting us share a part of your burden at his loss... you are welcome to share more of it if you can, we are here......
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Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships II From: Allan C. Date: 21 Mar 00 - 11:42 AM It is because of the cyberfriends here as well as the in-the-flesh Mudcats that I have met, that I have found the encouragement I needed (desperately!) to once again begin singing and playing in public. For me, this is priceless. For me, this is the manifestation of a very special kind of love. |