How do you feel about cheat sheets?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 06 Apr 00 - 12:26 AM

I suffered a Traumatic Brain Injury about 14 years ago, and lost a good chunk of memory, as well as the ability to memorize--

I spent about three months writing and learning chord/melody arrangements of Christmas music for a well paying set of seasonal gigs--the day I was to start, the whole thing came up blank, and I have never been able to remember a note--

I was pretty disturbed, and felt like giving up, when I ran into an old acquaintance, Joe Valino who was quite a well known Jazz/Pop singer and songwriter--Joe had had a stroke, and couldn' remember the lyrics to songs he'd been singing for thirty years--and he was still performing!! He would write out the words for requests on napkins, pieces of paper, anything he could find, and he have two or three people helping him out--he had no hesitation about holding sheet music--and his voice was just as good as it had ever been--

He told me,"Do whatever it takes" I think of that advice everyday--

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 11:54 PM

I personally do not use them and with my eyesight it would be next to impossible anyway. If you plan to use them and are playing outside be sure to take along a lot of clothes pins. I was watching a fellow one time who was playing everything from the sheets. The problem was that it was a windy day and the pages kept flipping over. It was funny and rather sad all at the same time.

Cap't Bob

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: rangeroger
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 11:53 PM

I firmly believe in "paper memory". If I'm doing a gig I try to do songs that I'm familiar with and that my neural synapses will allow me to dredge out of my "archives".My books are always near to me,however.for those songs I know only slghtly,or that I need to refresh.Plus,over the years,I have accumulated scads of sheets of notebook paper with songs on them that I had learned at one time and then not sung for a while.It"s always a pleasure to find one of these little treasures and say " I remember that song,it was agood one".And then do it again.
I've just been doing that with Elton John's "First Episode at Hienton"
Now Valerie's a wooommann.
rr

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: JamesJim
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 11:44 PM

I've used "cheat sheets" to remind me of song title and often, the first words of verses. Prefer not to. Just feel more in control when I don't. Jim

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 10:40 PM

It is really nice not to need 'em...if you KNOW the song cold, you can concentrate more on delivery....however, I will keep a 'reminder' sheet near sometimes. The only thing that bothers me is people who simply do not KNOW the song and are stumbling thru it, inventing a tune and reading haltingly, just because they want their turn ( I see this a LOT!)...A cheat sheet should allow one to perform a song smoothly that they might otherwise mess up...like a song you have not done in awhile, but need to coax out for a special occasion, or a new song you are 'almost' sure of...........If you can't sing the song even WITH the cheat sheet, dont!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: Mbo
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 10:08 PM

Ah yes, Mbo the cheat-sheet junkie! I used them ALL the time! But of course, I only play for ME so no one can complain! I've only got a few songs, words & chords, completely memorized. It's not like I have all day to sit around memorizing songs!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: Caitrin
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 09:33 PM

If I'm going to be singing in public, I always try to know the song well. Now, the lyrics will get intensely studied just offstage before performing, but they stay offstage. But that's just my personal thing. I hate looking in the slightest unprepared. Just my slightly obsessive nature showing through. However, other people can use lyric sheets as much as they want, as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't especially bother me.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 07:09 PM

Cheat sheets? Hate 'em. Use em'.
*sigh*

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: kendall
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 06:31 PM

I guess I'm lucky. I'm 65, and, I still learn songs quite quickly. Vitamin E and Ginko Biloba.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 06:01 PM

For a singer who isn't playing an instrument, a book or a word sheet hed in the hands can be used as a prop, the same way a "performance poet" will sometimes use it.

With a song that's new, or tta I haven't sung for sometime, I like to have the words handy - skim through them whie I'm waiting to sing, have them somewhere I can refer to if I run dry. But if I'm playing an instrument, I'll try not to, and most times I won't need to. For one thing, if you're playing an instrument, you can stick in a crafty instrumental while your memory battles through.

I thinkm of the written words as a safety harness rather than a cheat. They are there in case you fall, and since you know they are there, you don't fall. And if you know you are going to need them, use them as part of the act.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 05:57 PM

Had a nice phone call with Pete Seeger who is now 80. His memory isn't the same as when he was a younger man and so he has had trouble getting started with "This Land Is Your Land". I'd take a performance with Pete using the yellow pages or a dictionary as a crib sheet in front of him if he wanted it. Crib sheets don't always mean a substandard performance. Can't generalize about this. There's something exciting about hearing a new song taped to the microphone by a writer/singer. A lot has to do with whether the performer buries his/her nose in the words and forgets the audience.

Only problem I have is with Rise Up Singing. Print's too small for me so I call it "Rise Up Squinting".

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: GUEST,Allan S.
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 05:38 PM

I did not want to get involved with any discussions Since I was told to bugger off By someone who did not agree with me. However Joe Offer hit it right on the head.At a certain age it becomes difficult if not impossible to memorize fresh material. I am 71 and have been singing for almost 50 years Yes I need the words in front of me if I am to sing any new material other wise it would be the same songs that I learned 30 or more years ago. My MD calls it the aging process and it happens to us all, There is no way to get around it. It is something we can ALL look foreward to if we like it or not. So sing on and enjoy it.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: kendall
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 04:24 PM

I overhear a lot of comments about people who need cheat sheets. Some of them are not kind, such as," book carriers" or, those book people.IMHO there two kinds of people, performers, and entertainers. If you need a book of all your songs, you are a performer. (Not that there is anything wrong with that) Actually, I dont hear such comments from audience members, just from other entertainers. It really doesn't look professional, but, professional folksinger is an oxymoron anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 04:22 PM

I think it looks better without them but I go to listen...

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: MMario
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 04:08 PM

I've never had the luxery of being able to use crib sheets while performing, as virtually all my performances have been "in charactor" and hence the notes would have been very inappropriate. Thus, I tend to feel that if I need notes, I am not prepared.....

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 03:59 PM

I'm over 50 - I deserve to have cheat sheets.

I used to be able to memorize songs in a flash when I was in my teens and twenties. If I tried that now, I'd get stuck on every song I sang. Would it be better for me to sing only the stuff I learned 30 years ago? I don't think so.
It seems that for me to memorize a song, I have to sing it in front of a group several times. The audience response helps me fix the song in my mind, and it also helps me work out the fine points of a song. For some reason, I can't do that by singing to myself. Still, I try to rely on my cheat sheets as little as possible. I find the Mudcat Hearme sessions are helpful, because I get a chance to sing new songs for people, and they can't see me use my cheat sheets.
If I were singing for a paying audience, that would be a different matter - then I think it would behoove me to have every song memorized.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 03:55 PM

I agree with all of you so far! I'm all for copies for everybody when you're learning chords, runs, lyrics, whatever else. And I like set lists, (complete with the designated key for each piece!), and nudge words to begin verses. And certainly when someone else is sitting in, a cheat sheet is permissible. When we play for dances in an open band format we provide chord chart books for anyone who wants them. A chord chart can be a lifesaver but it sure can be a crutch too. Which, basically, is how I feel about a music stand on stage. But I don't feel too strongly about it. :) Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 03:54 PM

The audience be damned?? wow..

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 03:51 PM

More thoughts on cheat sheets: If you're going to use one, don't try to hide it. Put it on a music stand smack in front of you so you can read it without looking down. Make sure the audience sees your face instead of the top of your head.

Classical musicians (except soloists, for some reason) use sheet music all the time, and no one criticizes them for it. Why not folkies?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: MK
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 03:45 PM

Just as an addendum to my previous post, if you are not blessed with the ability to memorize lyrics or music, then do what you have to do, and the audience be damned if they don't like.

Whatever gets you through the set(s) and makes it work for you, and makes you feel comfortable on stage. You have to be comfortable and relaxed in order to really be able to ''give'' to and connect with an audience. A little nervousness is okay. Keeps you on your toes!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: MK
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 03:39 PM

Depends on your ability to memorize things.

I have over the years gigged and worked with many fine vocalists and bands. The vast majority of them do not use charts and cheat sheets...but I recognize other's necessity for having them.

In my current job, when I go out to hear bands, if I see the musicians reading charts, then immediately this tells me this is not a self-contained ''tight'' band, but a group of jobbers who came together for the gig...and I tend to be less impressed with the overall presentation. Same holds true if I see a vocalist reading lyrics on stage.

It simply looks much more professional to an audience if there are no charts on stage, nor a vocalist relying on them. But then again it depends on the nature and formality or informality of the gigs...and how professional an image you wish to project to your audience.

But if you are a self contained band, and on a particular job, your resident (pick an instrument) was sick and you had to hire a sub, then it absolutely makes sense that they'd need charts, since they don't perform regularly with your ensemble.

I'm lucky because after I've played any song for an hour or two, it's baked into the memory cells. If someone has shown me the positions for chords etc....then I recall those images in my mind and see them. If I learned a tune from a chart, then again I see the chart in my mind when I play.

The best vocalists I know of have hundreds of songs in their heads. They rely on books or cheat sheats, as something to view before they get on stage to begin a set, as little freshers.

The only paper work I personally like to see on a stage is the set list.....but this is just my opinion and my preference. To each his own and whatever works for you.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: Rob-IL
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 03:37 PM

The better show is made without notes, however, with so many folk songs, it would be very hard to finish a lot of the songs without lyrics... that is, unless you are only performing one or two songs....

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 03:28 PM

I think you're just being picky. (But I wouldn't have said so if you hadn't used those words first. No flaming here!) Peter and Lou Berryman, my favorite humorous songwriters, had a large loose-leaf notebook on a music stand in front of them when they performed here last year--and they were playing only songs they had written themselves! I figure, if they can get away with it, anyone else ought to, too. I found that, after a while, I didn't notice the cribs. That's probably due to the fact they are great deadpan performers and their songs are hilarious. Here's one example. DigiTrad has lots more.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 03:23 PM

Ummmm... I became book dependant a few years ago, but it's mostly a security blanket thing these days... It helps to have a list of titles just to help if you don't make set lists... But when you carry around as many songs as I do in a mind as besotted as mine is, it helps to have s lyric sheet infront of ya, especially for new material...

The new band has already discussed this though, and the plan is to get off the book a.s.a.p.!!

{~`

Subject: RE: BS: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: Bert
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 03:07 PM

On stage no, - informally, can't live without 'em.

Subject: How do you feel about cheat sheets?
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 03:01 PM

What are your thoughts about using a stand for sheet music or lyrics on stage? It bothers me- It seems to me you're not ready to perform it unless you know it. There's a local bluegrass group that uses them- it seems unprofessional, somehow. And when it comes to folk music- it seems to me that if you pay attention to the story or theme you're not going to get too far lost. Although I do understand having the beginning words or notes of a song taped out of sight on your instrument. Obviously you don't want to run dry! But maybe I'm just being picky? Ebbie