BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying

Subject: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Helen
Date: 08 Apr 00 - 09:24 PM

Referring back to my Help: Lost my sense of humour thread, I just found a very insightful page on workplace bullies and I thought some of you may be interested in seeing what I have been going through.

For anyone not interested, and yes, I know it isn't music related, I apologise now, but this is a serious social issue, not just a personal issue. It has prevented me from playing music, & even from listening to music on CD for the better part of a year because of my high stress levels so for me it is very much related to my music.

http://www.successunlimited.co.uk/

Bully On-Line: Tim Field shares his insight into workplace bullying, a cause of stress, ill health, and the basis for harrassment, discrimination, abuse and violence.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Kelida
Date: 08 Apr 00 - 10:09 PM

I think everyone has been bullied at one point or another. All through middle school and elementary school, people made fun of me to the point where I became obsessed with becoming "normal." Then, in 9th grade I had a minor nervous breakdown, and I realised something had to change in my life.

I finally said "screw everyone else" and decided to do my own thing. Things actually got worse for awhile as many of the people I had been hanging out with for years slowly drifted away. At the same time, however, I made a few new friends and grew closer to the two or three people who accepted me for who I was and who were going through something similar to what I was going through. Those are the friends who have stuck by me through the last two and a half years and still accept me for the "weird" girl that I am.

There are still people who make fun of me sometimes, but now I've gained the self confidence and self-respect to be able to laugh it off and to accept that there will always be bullies--I just don't have to take their crap.

Peace--Keli

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Mbo
Date: 08 Apr 00 - 10:22 PM

I don't get it, you don't seem weird to me!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Kelida
Date: 08 Apr 00 - 10:32 PM

:^) That's because--probably everything you think isn't weird about me is the same stuff that everyone that ever made fun of me thought was weird about me.

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Mbo
Date: 08 Apr 00 - 10:38 PM

Maybe it's an artist thing! Artists are weird in general, aren't we? **BG**

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Kelida
Date: 08 Apr 00 - 10:48 PM

Maybe so. . .I do enjoy it though, in a way. . .hehe. . .

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From:
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 12:52 AM

Keli, I pretty well ignored that sort of thing in grade school.

When those "idiots" realize they can't bait you, they soon realize it isn't very funny and is actually pretty boring.

It does take a lot of conviction to NOT strike out at people, but it is WELL worth it in the end. Who knows, some of THEM might respect you for it. Stranger things in life have happened.

Short of actual physical abuse, it is ALWAYS safer to not respond, OR even more irritating to those who attempt it, you CAN respond with this simple phrase

Thank you for your concern/opinion/thought(s) on the matter. I will think it through

Of course you are smiling that little "Mona Lisa" smile!

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: BlueJay
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 01:14 AM

Boy, I have seen my share of workplace bullying in my time. Years ago, had a new fellow unmercifally pilloried because he had a somewhat effeminate manner. He did his job well, no complaints there. But even after he introduced his wife and children, a few people just would not let go, and he eventually quit. Years later, as a (reluctant) supervisor, I still have to step in when employees needlessly harrass new hires for not learning their job immediately, which is unreasonable. Many of these people also quit, and then the veterans complain about being short staffed. Go figure.

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 03:17 AM

Keli - I was teased mercilessly from Infants upwards. Firstly, because they considered I had a strange surname (it's actually quite a rare name, almost totally local to my home county and I got to be quite proud of it in the end) and secondly, because we had not a great deal of money, we couldn't afford to buy all the fashionable clothes that made me look like everyone else. I was different and got bullied for about 12 years because of it. When I got to Grammar School (11-16yrs), I got slated for still having my very strong local accent, for going to church and for not liking everything that every other girl liked (Bay City Rollers, Duran Duran and Billy Idol; yes, I'm that old!!) In the end, I took to alcohol to blot out the taunts and stopped doing my schoolwork, trying to fit in with the gang of girls who were picking on me. I ended up desperately unhappy, suicidal at times and with a growing alcohol dependancy. Almost as soon as I left school, that all went. I've been to one school reunion, and the same taunts were there, 5 years later. You'd think that they'd mature a little, but no, as 21 year olds, they hadn't got that far. I've not had any other contact since with anyone from my old school.

Things are a little more laid back now, I too, came to the 'Screw You' conclusion and was voted the office loony after only a few days in the new job.... I think the most important bit of sense that I arrived at was this: It doesn't matter what the outside looks like, it's how the inside feels. If you are not happy with yourself, only you can change it. If others are not happy with you, they can only change themselves.

A good friend of mine is having problems at work, so much so that she will not be returning from her maternity leave; her 'colleagues' have bullied her without letup for 4 years, despite her complaining to various bodies. They decided to stop it because 'it's not fair whilst she's pregnant', suggesting that it was OK to resume as soon as she had her baby. Already, after only 4 weeks off, she looks like a new woman....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Kelida
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 04:04 AM

It's ridiculous the amount of pain people can inflict on each other mentally and emotionally. I know a few people who don't believe in emotional and mental abuse, but in a way, that is the worst kind of abuse that people inflict on each other, and definitely the most common. So much harm can be caused with just words, and I know some people that are deliberately cruel. I sometimes wonder if that's just human nature. On the other hand, I know people who are so sweet and innocent, it breaks my heart to see the way people treat them.

When I had my nervous breakdown, it was a period in my life that was really painful--I had stress at home and at school, and at the same time, when I was 15, I was practically engaged to a boy I thought I was in love with (long story, and a big mistake). It was indescribably stressful, and much of it, I realised was caused by my own lack of the ability to cope with stress and the conviction to be me own person--both of which came after my breakdown (which consisted of hours of uncontrollable crying).

Now, more than two years later (I'm almost 18 now) I feel like a completely different person. I only hang out with about half a dozen people, but that's good enough for me. I realise now that it's not important to be popular or "cool" and I think it's way cooler for people to do what they want to do than it is to conform to what others expect of them. I have my art and my music, so even though I wouldn't say I'm content with life in general, I at least have causes and people that I care about.

Peace--Keli

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: sophocleese
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 10:45 AM

Thank you Helen for the address there. A lot of good material.

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: kendall
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 12:34 PM

Bullies have a desperate need to impress their peers. It is THEY who are insecure. They are also cowards at heart.

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Mbo
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 12:44 PM

Ahhh...the joys of being homeschooled--NO BULLIES!!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: GUEST,Wowbugger
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 03:28 PM

Neat one Helen.

WOB Mbo, who cares whether you were schooled at home, school or in a barn if you don't add more to the discussion than a silly "Look at me!" comment?

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Alice
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 04:15 PM

Great link, Helen. I passed it on to a discussion list of former members of a doomsday cult whose guru is a classic example of a bully. The ex-members were grateful for the link to the information.

-a

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 04:19 PM

Mbo, bullies aren't just in school - they're at work, live in your neigborhood, work where you do, and hang out on the internet. Having to deal with bullies in school was very difficult, but I did learn how to deal with them. I wonder if it's easier or harder, when you haven't previously been exposed to bullies, to learn how to deal with them as a young adult.

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Helen
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 07:04 PM

Kelida,

What you have described is what I have been going through for exactly a year. And your story too, LtS, is ringing painful alarm bells.

What I like most about the site is that it tells me what sort of personality bullies have, it validates my experiences, it lists all of the stress and health consequences of bullying, gives information about the legal position and it tells me what I can do about taking action against the bully.

But, since I posted the link I have been thinking about the flamers and trolls here at Mudcat and it seems awfully similar to the type of behaviour we have experienced here. Look at the comment above about Mbo, and consider it in the light of the information on that site.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: The Beanster
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 07:29 PM

Right on the money, Helen and Jeri. And I don't think it's human nature. I think people are generally better than that. It's just that we tend to remember very clearly the ones who've tried to hurt us. It's a self-protective mechanism because we try not to get hurt again. (IMO)

But whenever I have encountered nasty, obnoxious people who say hurtful things, yeah, it hurts for a moment and then I consider the source. You should not feel bad about yourself or angry at the person (although that's the knee-jerk response) but consider how unhappy they must be in order to purposely try to inflict pain on another. They will NEVER admit this but obviously, they feel hurt or angry or whatever, at their own lives, their own selves and they take it out on whoever happens by. It has NOTHING to do with you and everything to do with THEM. The ironic thing is, and the thing they don't understand, is that hurting other people ultimately hurts them even more. If you change your emotion from either hurt or anger to pity, it is much easier to deal with these sadists. They are miserable. And there's a nice amount of poetic justice in that.

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: GUEST,flattop
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 08:28 PM

You call that bullying? Have we not had our Beano today? What about 'sticks and stones?' What about 'names will never hurt me?'

When I went to school, well I went to 14 different schools. I was often the new kid at school, the outsider, the kid getting beat up and pushed around by the established gangs of kids. Being neither very big nor very brave, I often had difficulty defending myself. At least I thought that I did.

Come to think of it, I can remember more times where my feelings were hurt than when I was physically hurt. Like the rest of you, I collect those hurts and keep them close to my heart so that I can savoir them on slow days with too much dead air.

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: GUEST,Wowbugger
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 09:19 PM

So Beanster who exactly are you trying to hurt with your crushing holier than thou morality play there? Me or you? LOL. From what I read on the site (how many people who wrote to this thread looked at it BEFORE posting?), the bullies are awful because they have power and abuse it. Flamers and trolls don't have power like bosses in corporate management do so they can't harm you in the same way.

If Mbo wants to say "Nyahh Nyahh lucky me, I was homeschooled" (a singularly ill-bred statement) what's wrong with saying "So what?" By several standards Mbo's comment was insensitive to the people who had written about their awful personal experiences in a school system which they couldn't escape for the relative luxury of homeschooling.

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Kelida
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 09:20 PM

I know this sounds naive, but I wish no one would ever hurt anyone else, physically, mentally, or otherwise. Unfortunately, however, the only thing one can do is to try and live their life the best they can.

I like to think that I've turned out fairly well-adjusted, though there are some people who may disagree, but I think that my experience in life has made me stronger.

Maybe that's why I want to be an artist--I see so much bad in the world, and my greatest desire in life is to do something to change it--I hope I can do that someday with my art.

Peace--Keli

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Mbo
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 09:29 PM

Wowbugger, I was taken out of school at 7 years old to be homeschooled. Why you may ask? Because of bullies. One grabbed me from behind one and almost broke my arm. But hey, if that sort of pain and ridiculing builds character, well then I concede that you are the lucky ones. Look at YOU.

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: GUEST,Wowbugger
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 09:31 PM

Mbo you seem to be a little confused here over who said what. Take a deep breath, walk away from your computer and reread what I wrote and what others wrote. Then tell me who, if anybody, wrote that staying in school and being bullied would build character.

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Helen
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 09:35 PM

Keli,

With a passion for wanting to contribute positively to the world anything you do will be worthwhile. To channel that passion into art is one of the best ways I can think of to use your gifts, talents, life experiences, values, etc. I wish you all the best in your life goal.

I think that I have been through these experiences of bullying, not just the current one, so that I can channel it positively back to help other people. Since I read that site on bullying I have felt a sense of turning around from the bad things that have happened, and are still happening, to re-making it into something positive.

I want to write it all down and see what I can do with that. There is only one site mentioned for Australia and that is in South Australia which is roughly 1,000 miles away from the eaxt coast, so maybe there is something I can set up here. I am a workplace trainer so I am thinking about developing a training seminar - one for the victims and one for the organisations. Who knows what may come out of this??

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Kelida
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 09:38 PM

Wowbugger--I don't think that's what Mbo meant to say at all. I seriously doubt his comment was malicious in nature, but rather an example of why he didn't have to go through what many other people have to. I think it's good that Mbo missed out on the experience and I wouldn't reccomend it to anyone else who hasn't experienced. I certainly don't think it's right of you to berate him for being fortunate enough to miss out on being bullied in school. In this case, I think you are the one who is trying to be a bully.

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Kelida
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 09:41 PM

D***it I hate when I miss people's posts because I'm typing! Redundancy sucks. . .

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Kelida
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 09:48 PM

BTW, being bullied doesn't in and of itself build character. I think that having to overcome and the self-respect one can gain by learning to accept oneself in spite of what others say is the real example of character. IMO character isn't built, it is there inside everyone just waiting for the right catalyst so it can be discovered.

Peace--Keli

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: GUEST,Wowbugger
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 09:49 PM

I realize that I'm being cast in the light of bad guy here. Yes Mbo is fortunate if he missed out on bullying because he was homeschooled, if he rereads, as I suggest he do, he will understand that I never said or implied that he should have stayed in school and been bullied. His first message would have had a lot more force and relevance to the discussion if he had said he was homeschooled BECAUSE of being bullied at the age of seven. As it was stated however it was simply a waste of a post as it merely said that he hadn't been bullied at home. Is it really helpful to have people state that they were/are in a place where they weren't bullied and give no other information than that? Its dark outside right now where I am. Is that useful to the discussion? No, not particularly, so why waste the time to type it? I just want him to think a little more about his posts instead of firing them off off the top of his head. I think they could be a lot more interesting if he thought longer before writing.

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Kelida
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 09:55 PM

Wowbugger, there is still no reason to make such decidedly hostile and at the very least, derogatory, remarks. If you had posted your above post immediately, instead of just insulting him without explaining what you meant in a reasonable way, you would have made a much better contribution to the conversation. Maybe you are the one who should think a bit longer before posting?

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 10:17 PM

Wowbugger, I think it might be wise for you to consider your own advice and take a little more time before you submit postings yourself.

As for The Beanster's compassionate insightful words, they are well worth re-reading. A person who has a need to bully others, is a person who has many problems and as a result is suffering greatly. As The Beanster wisely states, 'it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with them.'
When you can finally get to a point where you truly understand this, you may then have room for compassion towards these individuals.
Compassion is your ticket to peace with this issue.

Little Neo

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: GUEST,Wowbugger
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 12:01 AM

Little Neo if I had written my original message like this would you consider me wise and compassionate?

Whenever I have encountered hasty, unthinking people who say needless things, yeah, it bugs me for a moment and then I consider the source. You should not feel bad about yourself or irritated with the person (although that's the knee-jerk response) but consider how unhappy they must be in order to purposely try to inflict themselves on everyone. They will NEVER admit this but obviously, they feel hurt or unloved or whatever, in their own lives, their own selves and they can't help but blabber to anyone who happens by. It has NOTHING to do with you and everything to do with THEM. The ironic thing is, and the thing they don't understand, is that talking over other people ultimately silences them even more. If you change your emotion from either irritation or disgust to pity, it is much easier to deal with these puppies. They are miserable. And there's a nice amount of poetic justice in that.

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Mbo
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 12:09 AM

Wow, I never knew I had so matter subconscious motives for one goofy little post!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: GUEST,Wowbugger
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 12:26 AM

Now you know how I feel Mbo. That, with a few appropriately modified words is exactly what the compassionate and insightful Beanster wrote, sentence structure etc are all exactly as written. Would compassion really lead someone to say "They are miserable. And there is a nice amount of poetic justice in that." Who is bullying who here? Beanster is hiding her/his vindictive teeth under a bale of reasonable sounding mumbo jumbo. So read with care.

I'm sorry if I upset you with my original post, clearly I was in a bad mood. Using personal experiences in a discussion is necessary and vital but you need to make the bridge between the general and the specific. Bring your experiences into the ring yourself without always making people come to you. Then the sharing gets better.

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 01:08 AM

Wowbugger--Mbo shares lot, particularly about music, which is why most of us are here--

If we meander off topic, or make a rather unclear or even pointless post from time to time, it doesn't hurt anyone, at least as far as I can see..,

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: GUEST,flattop
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 07:04 AM

You guys don't have to turn the dance into a Donnybrook just because Kelida is turning 18 and wants to run away from home but maybe it's a male thingie.

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: GUEST,Penny S.(elsewhere)
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 07:14 AM

Please don't use that phrase about sticks and stones. It is a bullies' charter to use demeaning and humiliating language, which heals far less quickly than physical damage. I don't think the "character building" effect of what I went through at school kicked in until I was 45, and very nearly all of that was the verbal sort. The only people I hear using it at school are those who wish to diminish the significance of their words, and give themselves permission to continue.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 08:01 AM

How many people have known childhood bullies that turned out to be perfectly decent adults? There was a kid on my street that used to pick on smaller or younger kids. I was one of them. To make the story short, one day I stood up to him - I didn't beat him up really, just allowed him to humiliate himself. I started walking home from the bus stop with the smaller kids. When I got a chance to talk to this kid in high school, he was no longer the bullying sort. I honestly think most kids have a chance to try out bullying, but it's the ones who continuously get away with it who go on to be bullying adults.

Penny - I agree. If bullies used sticks and stones, at least there would be evidence and something visible to heal. Most of us who were pushed around by our peers and made to feel small, were supported by our families who made us feel important. It's frightening to think of kids who don't find that support anywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: GUEST,Kelida
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 12:07 PM

That is frightening, but my parents haven't always been there for me, either. I don't blame them, though, because I don't think they understand me at all. However, I have always known that they love me in their own way.

Peace--Keli

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 02:18 PM

After many years of being a grown-up, I can't help but note how nuch bullying goes on in the world at large--the strategy is to humiliate and intimidate, the goal is to keep you from excercising your own rights--

I see a lot of bullying, particularly on the internet--not flaming, but corporate threats, like the ASCAP?Harry Fox stuff--and people caving in, because, although they are right, they are afraid of litigation--

And I see people afraid to express their opinions because they are afraid of retaliation--

When someone tries to intimidate you, it is because they want something that it yours--maybe your place in line, maybe your desk, maybe your job responsibilities(the ones that they were not competent enought to be entrusted with) or maybe they want you to do your work without paying you what the ought to pay--

The only good response to a bully it to hit hack harder than they expect--whether it is simply sticking your face in their face instead of backing off, bringing in lawyers and making complaints to regulatory agencies, or simple surprising someone in the washroom with a two by four--

Nobody likes trouble, and those that give it tend to be just as easily intimidated as they think you are--

I tend to be very polite, and as a disabled person, people often perceive that I am vulnerable--when somebody tries to take advantage, I know my options, and I give them my best shot--

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Amos
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 02:58 PM

There are only two ways to play the situation if you are up against a genuine bully, not someone with an occasional bad temper. You can play to cut out of the game, or you can play to win it.

A real bully lacks his own power, and thinks to acquire some by upsetting others. It's the only strength he has at all -- borrowed on the sly from others by needling and dominating. He can be ignored in some circumstances, because dropping the whole think flat, completely cutting the connection, is an effective option.

But there are other times and places where this is not possible and the only remedy there is is to exert more force on the individual from his environment, than his psychotic impulses are exerting on him to be destructive from within-- in other words make it preferable for him to keep his psycho crap inside by leaning on him harder than it does. This may entail lifting him up by the collar and explaining matters calmly with a large stick, or perhaps a confrontation with a dozen angry targets no longer willing to put up with it, or a complete caterwauling physical slam with large boots, depending on circumstance. The typical behavior I have seen is that once a victim stands up and refuses any more, the bully pulls it in and looks elsewhere for easy prey, or even corrects his ways. It's never simple, I understand. But the principle seems to be the same in many cases.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 05:45 PM

This bullying things relates to the kind of stuff we've been having threads about recently - flamers and trolls and GUESTS who make nasty little personal attacks, but can't receive personal messages.

That's bullying. And the consensus was that it's best to just ignore it, because it just encourages them to stick around and get noticed. Which is frustrating at times, but best to stick with it...

In the 3D world, bullies damage people, and so just cutting out the attention and making it self-defeating isn't enough.

But the suggestion that only physical bullies matter isn't on. Some of the most vicious examples of persecution and bullying aren't physical at all - the kind of thing that leads to kids killing themselves. And in some cases, when you get down to it, what is seen as cases of physical bullying have at their root kids who have been taunted and teased until they struck out, and learnt how to be physical bullies. Or maybe they learn the tricks and the skills that put them into the bullying in-crowd that aren't recognised as bullies because they are careful and non-physical.

And the worst bullying of all is bullying by people in positions of power, and that continues and escalates in adult life. There are people in positions of real power who aren't bullies. I think they are probably in a minority.

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 06:09 PM

Kelida--Your statement, "IMO character isn't built, it is there inside everyone just waiting for the right catalyst so it can be discovered," reminds me of one I like: "Hard times don't make character, they reveal character."

Helen--your link was very informative, especially the profiles of stalkers.

Mbo--I'm curious about homeschooling and music education. Any thoughts?

Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 06:11 PM

If names will never hurt me, why aren't we allowed to say nigger any more?

Proof positive that names hurt more than blows. Blows are visible and open, they leave a mark. Name calling (and I've been called a few) is invisible, it is hard to prove unless you have a handy tape recorder, and they cut sharper and deeper than a surgeon's scalpel.

Helen - set up that site, whereever you are - do that training thing. If you can just stop one person from feeling isolated and suicidal, then it is worth every penny, every hour you put into it.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: sophocleese
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 06:20 PM

Jeri, I had a similar experiance when I was in school. One day a much larger boy than either me or my little brother led six others against my brother. I was so furious I hit hard on the nose. He stopped dead in his tracks and started crying. My brother and I ran away. I talked to him later in high school. He still remembered me hitting, talk about making an impact on a guy, but he was no longer a bully.

Helen the site is excellent. If you're choosing movies I would advise you NOT to get out either GlenGarry, GlenRoss or Swimming with Sharks. Both of them have really nasty bullying bosses and I found them disturbing to watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 06:38 PM

The comments are so inciteful--I cannot help but wonder about the stories that lurk below the surface--

Someone mention above that they didn't think people read the thread before posting, but it seems to me that people are responding to one another-there is a depth of feeling here that makes re-read--

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: The Beanster
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 08:44 PM

Wowbugger,

You've taken my previous post (for some reason) very personally. I'll try to explain what I meant by the two seemingly conflicting statements. As Little Neo says, one should have compassion for those who feel the need to attack. Babys are not born as predators; through their life experiences, a predator is created. They view the world and other people as hostile. I don't know about you but I think that's very sad. On an intellectual level, it's obvious that compassion should be afforded them.

On the emotional side, these people do an immeasurable amount of harm to others. And if you are the one who has been bullied, to actually feel compassion for your attacker is next to impossible to do, although I think it's the ideal and it would ease your own pain. Short of that, however, since none of us are Mother Theresa, it does help to realize that the person who hurt you is hurting too. A bit of revenge, yes, but if it helps you feel better, that's the most important thing. It's the passive equivalent of M.Ted's two-by-four or Amos' slam with large boots.

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: GUEST, Threadie
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 09:01 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Amos
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 09:07 PM

Compassion is an excellent tool in handling a bully once he has been gotten into communication. No one does what he believes to be wrong or bad. He does what he feels driven toward beyond his ability to analyze.

But usually, before that can be done, he has to be halted from harming. in some cases I guess these might be concurrent actions when well managed.

Knowing the right level of effort to use, when, is often a difficult art.

I greatly admire and enjoy the posts I have seen here -- thanks, all.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: ceitagh
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 09:15 PM

I've found this entire discussions very interesting, especially Kelida's comments. I guess what she has to say really speaks to me. (heck, it could *be* me!) I also had a really hard time as a kid....I was different: I was a bookworm, spoke like an adult (after all, that's who I talked to!) and pretty much socially incompetant. Some pretty harsh things were said and done.
Anyway, to come to some sort of point, my teachers, who I think often felt very helpless in the face of the scapegoating and isolation I was experiencing, would often tell me something that sounded a lot like Beanster's post. I was told that the bullies were that way because they were insecure, that often bullies had a hard home life, that maybe they were very unhappy people. My teachers were trying to comfort me, but to me it sounded a bit like wowbuggers interpretation. As I filled myself with these excuses, I became selfsatisfied and superior- which, obviously, provoked the bullies. My teachers had done me less of a favor than they had hoped.
It took me a while to break out of my isolation. I went on rejecting my classmates long after they started accepting me. It wasn't until I hit gr. 10 and started gathering a group of friends as odd in their ways as I considered myself that I finally freed myself enough to see that my former bullies were just people...people that I could have a civil conversation with even. No worse or better than I. And I owe them in a way, because my isolation made me treasure my friends, and try to be the kind of friend i'd always dreamed of having. And it gave me the thick skin to realise that there are times when integrity of self is far more important than acceptance.
whew.

my 2 cents...spend it however you like,
Ceit

Subject: RE: BS: Lost sense of humour: links to bullying
From: Helen
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 07:41 PM

refresh