Quoting One Song At the End of Another

Subject: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: SDShad
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 05:49 PM

So, I've been thinking lately about this whole "quoting one song at the end of another" thing--especially the chorus of an older song--that seems to happen every so often in folk music (or "folk-style" for those songs that haven't actually stood the test of time yet--shall we call them "folk-candidates"?).

I could've sworn that I could come up with more examples than this, but what springs to mind at the moment is just a few:

Paul G.'s "The Creek" (quotes "Jacob's Ladder")
"And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda" (quotes *ding* "Waltzing Matilda")
my own "Zumbro River," which Max so graciously played on Mudcat this week (quotes "In the Sweet By and By")

Can anyone think of more examples? Does there seem to often be a pattern of quoting hymns? With my song, I didn't have the quote at the end originally. The song originally ended with "from the church up on the hilltop/you'll hear 'In the Sweet By and By'", and my brother one day, when I sang it for him, suggested the coda.

Does this practice have a name? Why do we wacky folkies do these things?

Asking pointless questions on a Friday,

Chris

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: SDShad
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 05:51 PM

Uhm...make that "Zumbro Valley." You'd think I'd know the name of my own dang song, but I only just chose the title this week, to be honest....

Chris

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Mbo
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 06:06 PM

The Clancy Brothers quote "My Old Man" at the end of their song "Moving Father's Grave."
In ELO's folk/rocker "Down Home Town" they quote "Dixie" several times throughout the song, and especially the end.
At the end of Queen's "Seven Seas of Rhye" they quote the song "We All Love To Live Beside The Seaside."

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Bert
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 06:13 PM

I quote 'Barbry Allen' in 'Plastic Flower Seeds'

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Mbo
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 06:16 PM

Paul Mounsey quotes "The Wild Rover" in his version of "Journeyman."

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Clifton53
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 06:21 PM

In "Please Don't Bury Me", John Prine quotes a few titles of songs, "It's a Sin To Tell a Lie", is one of them, also "Give My Love to Rose".

Clifton

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Robo
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 06:24 PM

In "Door Number Three," Steve Goodman pays homage to Dylan (if not Monte Hall) by including: "Ain't it hard to realize/he's not sellin' any alibis/as you stare into the vacuum of his eyes/and he says, 'Do you want to make a deal'?"

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 06:37 PM

I think the Pogues quote the Rare Old Mountain Dew in Fairy Tale of New York. O'Connells Steam Engine references a jig (Haste to the Wedding) rather than a song. As for a song at the end of another, hol about Eric Bogles use of the tune to "Yes We Have No Banannas" at the end of Little Gomez?

Jon

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 06:38 PM

"Don't Ask me to sing the Wild Rover" by Enda Kenny.

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 06:46 PM

I have just looked at O'Connells Steam Engine in DT. The tune given there is not the tune I know it to and is in fact the jig Haste to the Wedding that is quoted in the song.

I will try to MIDI the tune I know later.

Jon

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Paul G.
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 06:55 PM

To explain the Jacob's Ladder reference in "The Creek"...the song is a tribute to Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings, who wrote The Yearling and many short stories about Florida Cracker culture. One of those stories was titled "Jacob's Ladder", the tale of a young, dirt poor cracker couple. The young woman in the story would sing the old hymn while she worked....

pg

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 07:04 PM

Then you've got "Nearer my God to Thee" mentioned in "The Titanic" and "Engine 143". And "Ring a ring-a-rosie" in "The Rare Ould Times".

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 07:07 PM

My memory seems to be getting worse with tunes but the tune I know to O'Connels Steam Engine goes something like this

Jon

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 07:17 PM

When he performs it, James Keelaghan ends Cold Missouri Water with a few lines of Shanendoah (sp?)... On the recording of it, it's done instrumentally...

{~`

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Stewie
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 08:47 PM

Tom Russell intersperses 'Roanie' with snatches of 'Streets of Laredo' and ends it singing and humming bits of 'Strawberry Roan'.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 08:48 PM

It's A long Way to Tipperary at the end of Bill Caddick'e "Writing Of Tipperary. All th Best. Seamus

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Mooh
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 08:49 PM

Neil Young quotes "Let Me Call You Sweetheart" in some song or another on a soundtrack record he did ages ago...

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Mbo
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 08:52 PM

Eddi Reader quotes "Fly Me To The Moon" in her song "All or Nothing."

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Callie
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 09:24 PM

Is that All Or Nothing as in "Who oh slave is going to free you" or "All or nothing at all, half a love never appealed to me"?

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Mbo
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 09:31 PM

It's
But the only voice I'm hearing
Is the one inside my own head
Saying "Get out the kitchen, girl!"
"Fly to the moon instead!"
Oh I found, I found
I found out
It's all or nothing...

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Callie
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 09:34 PM

Wow - THREE songs with the same title!

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Mbo
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 09:37 PM

Yeah, Eddi actually wrote this one herself. It's a VERY good song, one of my favorites!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 14 Apr 00 - 10:37 PM

SDShad:

"Zumbro Valley"???? My ears perked up when I heard that! I'm originally from Rochester. Where along the banks of the celebrated Zumbro do you hail from?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: SDShad
Date: 15 Apr 00 - 10:53 AM

Well, Dave, I was born in Red Wing, actually, where my mother went to high school, but I spent my summers in Millville, where my father was born. He went to Plainview HS.

Spent a lot of time at the Apache Mall those summers too, but it's hard to be as poetic about a mall.....

Chris

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: SDShad
Date: 15 Apr 00 - 07:23 PM

Reading back through the thread....Thanks for sharing that about "The Creek," Paul. One of the most valuable things for me about Mudcat is insights into the songwriting process.

I have only a high-school and college English-class background in Rawlings, although I did rather like The Yearling. Can you recommend a good Rawlings collection that'd include "Jacob's Ladder?"

Chris

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Paul G.
Date: 15 Apr 00 - 09:18 PM

Chris:

Marjorie Rawlings' collection titled "When The Whippoorwill" contains Jacob's Ladder plus 10 others. There is wonderful insight into Florida Cracker culture, as she moved from Baltimore to Cross Creek Florida to live among the locals. She is said to have captured the Cracker dialect to near perfection. Hope you can find it -- originally published by Scribners, who, I think, is now owned by McMillan. You might try Amazon.com or e-bay. Good luck!

Paul

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 08:10 AM

DO YOU KNOW ANY BOB DYLAN? is a prime example.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Midchuck
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 08:19 AM

I haven't actually heard it, but I have seen references to a song about performing at Bluegrass festivals, entitled "Play Rocky Top or I'll Kill You."

Peter.

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: GUEST,Okiemockbird
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 02:10 PM

No one mentioned "You're a grand old flag" or "I am a yankee doodle dandy". T.

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 04:19 PM

A friend of mine released a tape of original songs on which is a cut about a child's memory of being in a chapel holding her mother's hand while mother sings Oh, Holy God, We Praise Thy Name. At the end of the song, the 2/4 beat eases into waltz time and an oboe plays the original tune. Very effective.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Mbo
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 04:36 PM

At the end of the song "(It's Good) To Be Free" by Oasis, they play the tune Harvest Home on accordian will a mysterious message is typed on a telegraph machine in the background...

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 04:58 PM

Mbo, if you can transcribe My Old Man for me as the CB&TM do it after Father's Grave, I would be eternally grateful.

But back to the thread: It may not be folk, but there's a song about "While the (name an instrument) played the Bonaparte's Retreat" (then they do a solo on the named instrument). And in The Teakettle That Sang Like People, Ed McCurdy lists the songs the teakettle sings, including Annie Laurie, Road to Mandalay, Lo Hear The Gentle Lark, and "several things from Rigoletto" - great story - if you don't know it, seek it out! And in Green Fields of France/No Man's Land they ask Did the band play The Last Post in chorus? Did the pipes play The Flowers of the Fooooorest?

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Mbo
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 05:05 PM

Sure Mrrz! I've had it transcribed for a while now...I sang it recently on HearMe as well. I'll get you the transcription on Sunday night. And whenever you're around HearMe next, remind me to sing it for you!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Jacob B
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 05:15 PM

Here's two more:

There's one I haven't heard in many years, about being an old folk singer. It contained the line

Street life sure is fun, when your twenty one
Brother, I ain't twenty one no more

and had a chorus that went

But I could make them cry to ...
Sing along to Row Your Boat Ashore

The recording of it was a live recording, and it ended with the singer segueing into Michael Row The Boat Ashore and getting the audience to sing along. Does anyone else recognize this?

The other one is by Robbie O'Connell, about the perils of being a real Irish singer in American Irish communities. The chorus goes:

Your not Irish, you can't be Irish
You don't know Danny Boy
Or Too-Ra-Loo-Ra-Loo-Ra
Or even Irish Eyes
You've got a hell of a nerve to say you come from Ireland
So cut out all the nonsense and sing MacNamara's Band

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 06:57 PM

well, "The Old Orange Flute" refers to "Kick the Pope" and "Boyne Waters"...both of which are hard to find any more.

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 07:11 PM

Bill D- Boyne Water is in some collection or other--prob'ly DigiTrad. I never did find Kick the Pope.

And while you're at it, check out the Song of All Songs. Probably the ultimate in this genre.

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Jul 00 - 04:58 PM

ah, yes...shoulda known..The Boyne Waters(long, tedious song..no wonder it isn't sung much!), and several others that mention the Boyne are in the database..(was a time when they weren't..stuff keeps slipping in there!)

Subject: RE: Quoting One Song At the End of Another
From: Noreen
Date: 01 Jul 00 - 05:40 PM

'Nobody's Wedding' by Richard Thompson ends with 'Mhairi's Wedding' played on accordions, getting progressively more lively as the track fades out........
Noreen