I want these lyrics - email me them now

Subject: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: Ed Pellow
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 05:33 PM

I've been making use of the DT for several years, and have posted on and off to the mudcat for a couple of years (used to use an alias - if you're checking...)

Recent changes in the UK telco market has allowed me to spend far more time here than I could in the past.

As a result of this, I try to answer as many lyric queries as I possibly can. Without wanting to sound big-headed, I'm a pretty competent web searcher. Even if I don't know a song, an advanced search at google (click) can soon pick up a lot of info.

I'm happy to do this, but I sometimes get frustrated when I've spent ages searching for something, posted the answer and the thread then dies.

I guess part of it is wanting someone to say thanks, but part of it is wondering if the person who sent the original query ever got to see the reply.

For some reason, I hardly ever reply by email, if someone asks me to - if they can't be bothered to check the forum again, then they can't be that desperate for the info.

Grateful for thoughts

Ed

<a href="http://www.google.com">Click here</a>
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 05:49 PM

Ed,

When I first fell into the 'Cat I had no idea at all how it worked and was in fact brand new to the Net. I was looking for blues sites but while here I asked for a song... and only came back because I wanted another look at the blues museum. And THAT was when I happened to notice the song title I'd requested in the Forum list, and learned that the songs get posted in the thread. I wasn't rude-- I was new.

I repaid what I could by taking on the job of answering ALL e-mails for over a month-- letting people know to come back to the Forum for replies. Some did, and joined. Of those who did, a few are genius musicians and a few are BSers, who also search music out for the rest of us. (And I am sorry to say that at least two of the new members who joined when I did, although I didn't help them join as much as just helped welcome them, were so disturbed and outraged over the way arguments are handled here that they left, and we are poorer for their departure. If they are lurkers, they know who they are--- come back!!!)

Life here got real busy then and that volunteer job is now open for someone else to fill, especially another newbie who would like to help the Mudcat in some way and does not know how to do much yet. I have a good set of boilerplate e-mail messages available for anyone who wants the job--- mostly Joe Offer's work but some mine. Now that we have a newcomer's FAQ in the making, maybe we will have better luck incorporating them.

And, I know this has been said before, but I'll say it again for anyone who's new enough not to have heard it, no posted song is a waste. No new link for us to use is either. We have all found a new dearly loved song from something someone else origianlly asked for. The most important thanks, (IMHO), is just taking the song and doing some good with it.

~Susan~

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: MK
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 05:54 PM

Google

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: Tim Salt
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 06:29 PM

Ed,

Thanks for telling me about Google - I'd never met it before and it's pretty good.

Regards

Tim

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 06:31 PM

Good point Praise, but Ed has a very good one too. I think a lot of us would prefer to answer in the threads as it often brings in other elements or discussions about the song. Maybe a different take, an unknown word or something, perhaps a bit of history. Often though I notice as did Ed that the original poster vever comes back. Also, when I have e-mailed them regarding their thread, I sometimes get no response either. On several occasions I have said for them to check back in for an answer and they never show. This happens a lot on "music info" threads too, ie, Should I buy a Froobalsplat Nose Flute? People post opinions and links and the poster NEVER comes back. Yeah, they do sometimes, but often they do the "Hiroshi Ogura bit" and that's it.

Just the way of things I guess. It won't stop us from answering, but it does get frustrating.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: Ed Pellow
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 06:54 PM

Spaw,

Glad that I'm not alone in feeling this.

What brought this thread on was seeing something that I'd spent a good while researching slowly disappearing down the thread list and eventually becoming unavailable, to the non 'hardcore' catter.

I'll continue to answer whatever questions I can - but I'll still worry that at times I'm talking to myself

Ed

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 07:03 PM

It'd never occur to me to send an email in reponse to a request for a lyric. I think do so would feel a rather unfriendly way to answer, though I can see some people mightn't see it that way. Most of the time anyway surely people don't put the email address in do they?

As for people not coming back again after posting a request, if they are guests I tend to assume they've quite likely come back with a new name as members.

The fun with requests for lyrics is that this can and should (in my opinion)lead into an exploration of aspects of the song in question, variants, discussion of what it's about, pointers to other songs which seem relevant. This isn't just a reference book or a slot machine. If I were to use an email it's probably be just to say that the lyrics had been posted on such and such a day, maybe if I'd come across the request after some delay when hunting through the archive.

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 07:32 PM

I used to hang out at the alt.music.lyrics newsgroup, which handles hundreds of song requests a day. The structure of many newsgroup readers is such that it's often very hard to find the response to a request, so most people ask for an e-mail reply. I'm sure newcomers don't understand our structure here, so that's why they ask us to reply by e-mail. They also get confused by our threads disappearing after no posts have appeared for 24 hours.
We find all this stuff very easy to understand, but Mudcat is so full of information that it's overwhelming to the average newcomer who's just looking for a single song and not intending to spend a lifetime here.
So, I figure it's best to both post and e-mail a response when a requester provides an e-mail address, even if they don't ask for an e-mail reply. If you do send an e-mail, I'd suggest that you note it in your message in the thread.
And yeah, I find that most people do e-mail me a word of thanks if I e-mail them lyrics. I've made some nice friends that way.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 07:40 PM

Hi everbody: Valid ponts by all. As a newbie, I have asked for and recieved lyrics. I do try to answer their kind missals because we all take time to ask and answer. Some times, it is because guests become members. I do respond to threads if they are mine and I try to at least check other threads and offer my all too limited knowledge. Sometimes it boils down to just not enough time in the day.. I understand the frustration. It's like waiting for a reply after you've sent a story out and you're waiting for the publisher to get back to you. Hang inthere all and Thank you for all the great information I have received at your hands even if I got it just by browsing. If anyone is in Elmira New York May 5&6, stop out to Newton BAttlefield and visit me I'll be in the Union camp. I am the first sergeant for the 12th US Andf i will be there with gun and guitar. Neil (AKA Irish Sergeant)

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: Mbo
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 08:11 PM

Know how you feel, Ed. I've been doing the same thing even before I came to Mudcat...but y'knon, I don't need thanks...I do it cause I like to, I don't expect any replies. For the common good!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 08:20 PM

Ed et al,

Not arguing, bu just to clarify...

I don't send them their answers by e-mail... I lure them back to the 'Cat iffn I can..

And Joe? Just FYI, I used to note that in the thread but it got unwieldy-- I can batch answer them much faster if I skip that step--- paste their addresses across to e-mail, see, and zipzap on...

And McGrath, there are a good number of people who do include the e-ddress when they first post, and the ones whohave responded have said that it felt wonderful to get a personal answer from a regular member who has no real obligation to answer-- kinda like they feel special and then want to come see why Mudcat has nice people like that in it.

And Sgt. Neil-- we are an hour south of Elmira and Mmario is an hour north. Sending you a personal message!

~Susan~

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 08:28 PM

If I can answer a question, or help towards an answer, I'll do it here.  I suspect that a lot of the people who want an e-mail reply don't understand that that's an extra charge on the 'phone bill for a lot of people who aren't in the USA.  As it happens, I've got a toll-free connection now -such things are finally starting to happen in the UK- but I'm still inclined to think that anybody who really wants an answer should be prepared to come back and see if they've got one!

Malcolm

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 08:29 PM

Yes, except when they think they are mailing a special help desk and don't see how the threads work at all...

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 08:52 PM

Quite so.  Mind you, we all managed to work it out.  Innocence is one thing; laziness is another.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: GUEST, Threadie
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 08:58 PM

And SPAM is something else altogether

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 10:59 PM

I'm afraid that there are many good people out there who simply will never 'get it'...they do not WANT to learn tricks to get what they want for themselves...they learn the very minimum necessary to operate a computer. I KNOW people who NEVER look at the drop-down menus, NEVER use a search engine, NEVER try a browser beyond what they are given with their computer, NEVER install an email program other than what is in IE4-5...barely know that newsgroups exist...etc.. (They also do not program VCRs or mess with stick-shift cars..*grin*) For whatever reason, they go thru life figuring out where those who DO know live, and asking for handouts.

Now, I realize that many nice folks only want a song for some transient purpose, and don't NEED to work thru the intricasies of what Max hath wrought, but I do shake my head at those who just sort of assume that there is some automated 'folk genie' here who will hand them stuff on a platter. "Search the database? HUH?"

...now, I do know that EVERYONE is a newbie at some point, but some never go beyond that stage, and some simply hate being asked to think. Others dive right in and say, "whoopee, what fun..."........I am also sure that those who DON'T do computers and folk music may be experts in floor tiling or accounting and be exactly the resource I need someday, and I do try to keep a perspective about it all...but it sure does get to me after 4 years seeing ANOTHER post titled "help...desperate for lyrics" I am so VERY glad to see the "Mudcat FAQ for newbies" thread being refreshed...

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 11:30 PM

Bill, you say you know people who never....never....never...? Well, heck, I date people who do it that way when it comes to computers. Can't say I mind - lets me play "Joe Hero."
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 11:42 PM

But... our job isn't to decide how people should use this resource, IMHO.... ours is to use it well ourselves and do what we can to enlarge the small folk world.... in numbers and in the sizes of hearts in it... I find using it to help as creative as using it to get songs.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 12:16 AM

Ya know, I almost hate to say this, but my criterion is still "please and thank you". Sometimes I'm amazed that (often) a Guest (without a nickname) just says "need lyrics to...." and leaves it at that. My folks never got much business sense into me, but they were big on "polite".

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From:
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 12:49 AM

I agree, Ed, it's nice when people respond with thanks.

I don't see much response usually after I DO answer, but then, I wasn't doing for the thanks. Therefore I haven't worried about it.

What I do like is as others have mentioned the learning about other aspects of a song. There was one recently about Congo River that was a real eye-opener. The various threads about the Water is Wide, or Carrick Fergus have exposed a lot of information.

These responses are excellent. People with the knowledge that Bruce O, Lesley, and Joe Offer have given us is certainly special.

Thanks to ALL contributors, however small.

When I first came to DT, it was still at Xerox. I lost touch until it was established here at Mudcat. Since then, with the Message Forum(s) we have timely additions to the knowledge base.

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: GUEST, Threadie
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 01:44 AM

"But... our job isn't to decide how people should use this resource, IMHO.... ours is to use it well ourselves and do what we can to enlarge the small folk world.... in numbers and in the sizes of hearts in it..."

Your job is no such thing, Praise.

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 10:19 AM

I also spend a bit of time trying to find answers for others and have pondered Ed's question on several occasions and I reached the same conclusion as Malcolm, i.e. money may be a factor.

I can't remember replying to anybody by email as the result of a song request in Mudcat but I have done so in newsgroups and while I can see that there may be good reasons for people requesting an e-mail reply, I am quite happy to help that way if I can. If howewever, I felt that the person was just being lazy or couldn't be bothered, I would not bother replying.

Jon

PS Ed, Google has recently become my favourite search engine - I wish I knew of it earlier.

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: Bert
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 10:50 AM

And a surprising number of people are just simply shy and don't know how to say thank you.

So I'll say a big THANK YOU to all of you who have answered their requests.

Bert.

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 01:42 PM

Joe...*big grin*...I guess there ARE circumstances when playing 'Joe Hero' could be an advantage....but I remember the admonition often quoted by an old carpenter I worked with years ago...chided about the lack of precision in some of his work, he would say:

"Don't do too good of a job, some folks will begin to EXPECT it!"

Subject: RE: BS: I want these lyrics - email me them now
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 05:45 PM

Praise said "no posted song is a waste." Ed, I'd like to thank you for posting lyrics. I wasn't the one who asked for the song, but I learned "The Herring Song" from Eliza Carthy's Red Rice because you posted it.

I do think it's rude to not say "thank you" or just write "send me the lyrics." Some people may not be able to get back here and check the thread they started for whatever reasons, but I don't appreciate it if it feels like they just can't be bothered. You are not alone!