How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 04:05 PM

Exactly.

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 03:37 PM

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: GUEST,greymalkin
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 12:51 PM

Yeah, the Iranian leader is a fun guy in reality. The Mullahs repressive? Not a bit. Twinkly-eyed and avuncular - always ready for a kick-about with a soccer ball. Or a woman's head.

    Ironic way to argue a point; make a different point. Four and a half years ago when I tried to convince people that going to war in Iraq was a horrible idea, all I heard was what a bad guy Saddam was. "He kills his own people (Kurds and Shiites) and attacks his neighbors (Kuwait, Iran)." Of course he's a bad man ,I said. The world is full of them. We can't make war on them all. Nor should we. Especially not when we are going to make the situation a whole lot worse. Which we did.
    Now people want to say Ahmadinejab is a bad guy. A fundamentalist.
He funds terrorism. He stifles free speech. He oppresses his people. Okay, I say, he's an asshole. The world is full of them. We can't go to war with all of them. Nor should we.

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 01:57 PM

So what? I didn't SAY Ahmadinejab is a nice guy, nor did I say I like the Islamic regime in Iran one bit. I don't like them one bit. What I SAID was that he has been misquoted in the media, for propaganda purposes, because he never said one single thing about wiping Israel off the map. He has been lied about.

And that doesn't suit your purposes very well at all, does it? ;-)

That's why you're bringing up other peripheral matters in the form of innuendo to try to evade my point, which is that the main propaganda effort justifying a pre-emptive strike on Iran is based on a 100% myth propagated by the media.

That's how Goebbels did it too, he created myths and innuendo to justify aggression, and the Germans launched pre-emptive attacks on just about everyone in Europe...feeling totally justified, I'm sure. Their reward for that has been to be remembered as war criminals...which they were. So is the Bush administration.

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: GUEST,greymalkin
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 12:51 PM

Yeah, the Iranian leader is a fun guy in reality. The Mullahs repressive? Not a bit. Twinkly-eyed and avuncular - always ready for a kick-about with a soccer ball. Or a woman's head.

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 11:22 AM

Here is the widest spread myth of all...and it's not limited to conservatives...

The myth that Ahmadinejad said he wanted to "wipe Israel off the map".

He did not say that. He never said that. He said nothing of the kind. He did not use any such words.

Yet it has been repeated so many times now by so many people that it's useless now to even point out that he didn't say that.

The first people to misquote him were, ironically enough, a couple of Iranian publications! Their misquotes were then picked up by world news services and repeated ad infinitum, since it was a very handy misquote for the purposes of anyone wishing to have some damaging propaganda about Iran.

What he literally said, in Farsi, was this: He himself quoted an old statement from the late Ayatollah Khomeini, which was to this effect....that "this regime", meaning the present Israeli Zionist government will one day "vanish from the page of time". All governments and regimes one day vanish from the page of time...and they are replaced by some new government and regime. Study your history for confirmation of that.

Ahmadinejad then went on to say, in reference to the Ayatollah's quote, that the Zionist government presently ruling Israel would one day "vanish" as did the oppressive Soviet regime in the late 80's.

The Soviets did NOT meet their end by a foreign attack, and Russia was not wiped off the map by anyone. The Soviets met their end through a popular revolution, a peaceful one, and they collapsed from within. Russia is still "on the map", and it has not been wiped out.

Ahmadinejad did not, anywhere in his speech, assert that Iran had intentions of attacking Israel, or of wiping anyone off the map, let alone Israel. He did not use the words in Farsi which would translate as "wipe off the map". He did not suggest a military attack by Iran on Israel. What he did suggest (or what Ayatollah Khomeini suggested in the quote) was simply that the present Zionist government was not going to last forever, therefore opponents of it could be glad of that. Well, yeah! NO government lasts forever. To say that is not to threaten to militarily attack Israel.

But the propaganda sources in the West would have much preferred that Ahmadinejad directly threaten to annihilate Israel since THEY want to annihilate the Iranian Islamic regime, so when some oeverzealous fools in an Iranian news service carelessly misquoted Ahmadinejad, the West was absolutely delighted...and they have used the misquote ever since to foment war fever against Iran.

And I know...you probably don't care...or even believe me...because your mind is already made up....so just forget I even said all the above and go on believing forever that he said he would "wipe Israel off the map".

But he didn't. Sorry. He just didn't. He said that "this regime will vanish from the page of time". The "page of time" is a very long page, and all regimes vanish from it in due course, one way or another, and are replaced by some other regime.


The actual statement, translated into English is:

"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time. This statement is very wise".

The Iran News Agency (IRNA) later referred to Ahmadinejad's speech saying:

"As the Soviet Union disappeared, the Zionist regime will also vanish and humanity will be liberated".

This quote was then "massaged" a bit by the Associated Press and changed to:

"The Zionist regime will be wiped out soon the same way the Soviet Union was, and humanity will achieve freedom".

Note the difference in the words...not accidental. "Wiped out" is an active end by violence. "Vanish" implies no such thing.

Ahmadinejad never said that Iran intended to wipe out anyone...but he has been quoted as saying that by the West, because that's the sort of thing they want him to say, in order to justify their pre-emptively attacking Iran.

See this link:

The rumor of the Century

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: GUEST,Rog Peek
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 09:32 AM

New Labour!

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: kendall
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 09:13 AM

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Boy, are we in trouble... This woman is frightening. Take special note of the last paragraph. Is she really this whacked out?

         Nancy Pelosi condemned the new record highs of the stock market as "just another example of Bush policies helping the rich get richer".    "First Bush cut taxes for the rich and the economy has rebounded with new record low unemployment rates, which only means wealthy employers are getting even wealthier at the expense of the underpaid working class".

      She went on to say "Despite the billions of dollars being spent in Iraq our economy is still strong and government tax revenues are at all time highs. What this really means is that business is exploiting the war effort and working Americans, just to put money in their own pockets".

      When questioned about recent stock market highs she responded "Only the rich benefit from these record highs. Working Americans, welfare recipients, the unemployed and minorities are not sharing in these obscene record highs". There is no question these windfall profits and income created by the Bush administration need to be taxed at 100% rate and those dollars redistributed to the poor and working class". Profits from the stock market do not reward the hard work of our working class who, by their hard work, are responsible for generating these corporate profits that create stock market profits for the rich. We in congress will need to address this issue to either tax these profits or to control the stock market to prevent this unearned income t o flow to the rich."

       When asked about the fact that over 80% of all Americans have investments in mutual funds, retirement funds, 401Ks, and the stock market she replied "That may be true, but probably only 5% account for 90% of all these investment dollars. That's just more "trickle down" economics claiming that if a corporation is successful that everyone from the CEO to the floor sweeper benefit from higher wages and job security which is ridiculous". "How much of this 'trickle down' ever gets to the unemployed and minorities in our county? None, and that's the tragedy of these stock market highs."

       "We democrats are going to address this issue after the election when we take control of the congress. We will return to the 60% to 80% tax rates on the rich and we will be able to take at least 30% of all current lower income tax payers off the rolls and increase government income substantially." We need to work toward the goal of equalizing income in our country and at the same time limiting the amount the rich can invest."

       When asked how these new tax dollars would be spent, she replied :   "We need to raise the standard of living of our poor, unemployed and minorities. For example, we have an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants in our country who need our help along with millions of unemployed minorities. Stock market windfall profits taxes could go a long ways to guarantee these people the standard of living they would like to have as 'Americans'."      

       Send it on to your brilliant friends. I just did

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: kendall
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 08:41 AM

Doug, one thing I have against the conservatives is all those fibs they make up and spread around like they were gospel. You mentioned one. Al Gore never said he invented the internet. What he did say was that he had been instrumental in developing it for government use. Big difference.
Now, They are spreading all out lies about liberals. I get them all the time, not a word of truth in them. For instance, one claims that Nancy Pelosi has a plan to take away windfall profits with a big tax.
They claimed that the Cinton gang vandalized all the computers before they left Washington. Again, not a word of truth.
Bill O'Reilly was one of the spreaders of this gem, and when the truth came out, he refused to apologize.
Today, a conservative is someone who will say ANYTHING to keep a democrat out of office, and if that democrat happens to be a woman, God help her.

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Oct 07 - 07:04 PM

John, are you the seventh son of a seventh son? That would explain it.

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Oct 07 - 07:01 PM

BTW, this was originally posted before the BS/nonBS division was instituted- would a clone kindly move it below?

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: bobad
Date: 30 Oct 07 - 06:42 PM

A conservative estimate would be - not very often.

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: John Hardly
Date: 30 Oct 07 - 06:27 PM

cool. How often do you score the 100th post on a seven year old thread?

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 07 - 06:22 PM

And it all depends on how things are where and when you are. A Cuban conservative today would be pro-Castro.

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Oct 07 - 05:47 PM

I would define conservative as: having a fondness for established things and a resistance to innovation; cautious; traditional; old-fashioned; wanting to keep things "the way they used to be".

That's what the word actually means, aside from the political labelling that goes on about it all the time.

Subject: Is Dubya 'conservative'?
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Oct 07 - 04:31 PM

7 October 2007
"Paul Krugman writes that contrary to those who would say that Bush strayed from right-wing principles, he is in fact a true Conservative.

* For example, people claim to be shocked that Mr. Bush cut taxes while waging an expensive war. But Ronald Reagan also cut taxes while embarking on a huge military buildup.

* People claim to be shocked by Mr. Bush's general fiscal irresponsibility. But conservative intellectuals, by their own account, abandoned fiscal responsibility 30 years ago.

* People claim to be shocked by the way the Bush administration outsourced key government functions to private contractors... Yet back in 1993, Jonathan Cohn...explained that "under Reagan and Bush, the ranks of public officials necessary to supervise contractors have been so thinned that the putative gains of contracting have evaporated."

* People claim to be shocked by the Bush administration's general incompetence. But disinterest in good government has long been a principle of modern conservatism. In The Conscience of a Conservative,, Barry Goldwater wrote that "I have little interest in streamlining government or making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size."

* People claimed to be shocked at the Bush Justice Department, making a mockery of the Constitution, issued a secret opinion authorizing torture despite instructions by Congress and the Courts that the practice should stop." But:

* People claim to be shocked at the Bush adminisration's efforts to disenfranchise minority groups..." But:

* People claim to be shocked at the Bush administratoin's attempts- which for a time were all too successful - to intimidate the press..." But:

* People claim to be shocked at the Bush administration's attempts to equate dissent with treason." But:

* Above all, people claim to be shocked by the Bush administration's authoritarianism, its disdain for te rule of law." But:

"Now as they survey the wreckage of their cause, conservatives may aks themselves: "Well, how did we get here" They may tell themselves: "This is not my beautiful Right." They may ask themselves: "My God, what have we done?"

"But their movement is the same as it ever was. And Bush is movement conservatism's true, loyal heir."

Bush, the Standard Bearer

(By the way, I miss Rick. Nothing new here)

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: mjm
Date: 23 Apr 00 - 09:40 PM

Kendall, was that question directed to me? The last time I voted in a presidental election, was when Ross P. was running against you-know-who. (I voted for Ross) It was also the first time had ever voted. Shame shame on me. Alas, my worst fear was to have "Them" get my number, so to speak, and then be called for jury duty. That's how it works, here in Connecticut. Well it happened, and I suspect that my employer paid a hansome amount to get me out of that jar of pickles. It won't happen again, because in this life, I will not stand in judgement of another human being. That's that.

Peace, m

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: Ditchdweller
Date: 23 Apr 00 - 12:37 PM

Well the Bloody line breakes were there when I posted it!!!! Sapper

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Apr 00 - 05:14 PM

My enemy's enemy must be my friend,
We've made that same mistake time and again.
And each time we make it, we learn pretty soon,
When you sup with the Devil, you need a long spoon.
And when you're done with your words of betrayal and cant,
When the pacifist says "Peace", who stops the Tyrant?

Well, that looks better with the lne breaks - I thought for a moment you were being rude to me friend Sapper! Not that I'd be with you on the last too lines, but that's another discussion. Siding with Stalin or Pinochet, for example, aren't exactly pacifist attitudes.

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: Ditchdweller
Date: 22 Apr 00 - 03:37 PM

To McGrath of Harlow; My enemy's enemy must be my friend, We've made that same mistake time and again. And each time we make it, we learn pretty soon, When you sup with the Devil, you need a long spoon.

And when you're done with your words of betrayal and cant, When the pacifist says "Peace", who stops the Tyrant?

Sapper

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: JedMarum
Date: 22 Apr 00 - 11:15 AM

"... and when you go carryin' pictures of Chairman Mao
you ain;t gunna make it with anyone, anyhow ..."

Mary, agreed! It seems John Lennon was not amused by the Chairman either.

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: GUEST,mary g
Date: 21 Apr 00 - 11:33 PM

someone wanted to know if anyone over the age of 48 was not taking in by Mao's stuff..

me and most of my friends.

mg

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Apr 00 - 08:45 AM

But Radical doesn't just mean left Radical, InOBU - you can have Radicals at any point on the political spectrum, insofar as there is a spectrum (it's a tempting and often useful metaphor, but it is just a metaphor). Nazism can in some ways be seen not so much as rightwing extremism, but as extreme Radicalism of the centre.

A Radical solution to a problem is to pull things up from the roots, and start all over again. There are times when that's what you need to do - but the crucial thing is knowing what kind of plants you want to plant when you've pulled up the ones that have grown wrong. Some people want top plant very nasty plants indeed.

Sapper 82's point about political misjudgements is valid, but applies across the board. The basic corrupting factor is the old saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". If you were in a barroom fight there might be some validity to that, but it is so dangerous. It's why you had people who can be reasonably described as "conservative" or for that matter "liberal" who in their time supported, encouraged and financed the most disgusting regimes, like that of Pinochet or even Hitler.

So far as the left is concerned, it is easy to see how, when you are engaged in a fight against people close at hand whom you can see to be vicious and dangerous, youn can be tempted to fool yourself that the people far away who send you words of encouragement, or who are also engaged in some kind of struggle against the same enemies are better than they really are.

Sometimes you have to take help from where you can get it - but you can never afford to trust people just because they help you. Which is very sad.

(And Brendy, yes there was a plane crash on the outskirts of Harlow a couple of days back, two light aeroplanes using a local airfield collided, and the people on board were killed. But all well away from me.)

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: InOBU
Date: 21 Apr 00 - 08:16 AM

Shades of red,
My old friend Bertel Olman used to define radical marxist and liberal in the following way... most likely still does, I should drop in on him...
Liberal... has noticed one or two social problems, like save the whales, which if done, evil would be erradicated and the world perfect.
The radical knows that if you took all the liberal observations and rants and lumped them together, you would have a pretty good polical plan and the problem underlieing all these problems is something or other to do with the evils of capitolism.
The marxist knows the other two are generally right, but has the intelectual tools to understand why they are right and that we will likely never live in a Eutopia, but just envent better problems.
Best to all
Larry

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: kendall
Date: 21 Apr 00 - 08:08 AM

I dont understand how you can vote for the "best candidate" or for whatever is best for the country/people, without knowing anything about politics?

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: GUEST, No.3
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 08:13 PM

We will soon put an end to that when we get in power!

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: mjm
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 01:03 PM

Nothing to add, folks, I'm socially and politically unaware. But I wanted to cause this thread back up to the surface. I told a friend abouth it and when he arrives, I'd like it to be readily visable. My directions here were sloopy but this one in particular has some really good contents. It amazes me how intelligent and funny some people can be all in the same thought pattern. Wow. m

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: JedMarum
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 12:38 AM

sound like a good plan, Amergin.

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: Amergin
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 07:22 PM

All I know is that I'm slightly in the red. Have no clue what conservative and liberal mean. I just vote for whoever and whatever I beleive is good for the people. It doesn't mean I'm right, though. Blessed be.

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: GUEST,dwditty
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 07:00 PM

I grew up in a town where Kurt Vonnegut described the Democratic poll watchers and Republican poll watchers as both being Republicans. Nonetheless, a "conservative" represented everything that I rebelled against - most of which I am now. It's amazing what 30 or 40 years can do to wear a person down.

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: JedMarum
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 06:35 PM

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: Brendy
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 03:57 PM

The American term 'liberal', I have difficulty in grasping.
Where I come from, Conservative is right wing - bordering at times on the fascist. Left wing/socialist is more or less always what it has been, and Liberals don't really know what they are, but like to think they do.

B.

BTW Was there a plane crash round your way, Kevin?

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: Ditchdweller
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 08:23 AM

Just a couple of penceworth from this side of the big pond. Conservative = right wing and Liberal = left. OK I know it is a bit simplistic, but with this in mind, let us look back 30 years. At this time the radical left had a great leader and master helmsman in the form of Mao Tse Tung, who at the time was leading the Cultural Revolution. How many people of my age, 48, and older, can truthfully state that they were not taken in by the propaganda of Mao's regime? How many of those who did accept the Maoist propaganda then feel shame at being so misled? Particularly in the light of the books "Life and Death in Shanghai" by Nien Chen and "Wild Swans" by Jung Chang. EXACTLY the same mistakes were made by the left in both the UK and the US during the thirties with Stalin. Also, in this country during the thirties, there was a movement towards disarmament that was led by the left DESPITE the obvious trouble brewing in Germany at the time. Mistakes like this are what makes me doubt the judgement of those on the left of the political spectrum. Sapper

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 02:32 AM

To take Ickle Dorrit's point. Our Conservative, leader of the oppositions latest appeal to the 'mean spirited'. Inflaming a difficult situation for votes and political gain, by stating that all political asylum seekers be 'locked-up' pending rewiew of their claim.

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: DougR
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 12:24 AM

I think it would be a bit interesting to peruse this thread and see who did the most bashing of the other: Conservatives of Liberals, or Liberals of Conservatives. Without doing so, I'd bet a nickel the Liberals would win.

DougR

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 06:57 PM

conservatives are people who want to defend the right of the individual unless they are asylum seekers in which case they want to bang them up in jail.

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 04:41 PM

BaldEagle - "McGrath, you're illiberal! Can't we disagree on some political aspects without your calling me your enemy? Do you wish to rephrase your previous entry?"

Since I don't want to kill you or lock you up if we disagree, that means I'm reasonably liberal on the definition I gave. Doesn't mean you might not be my enemy. "Love your enemy" implies you've got to have a few enemies in the first place. Just that you don't need to hate them, even when you might be doing your level best to defeat them.

I take it that you're probably a radical on some of the points where I'm a conservative, which was where I used the word "enemy".

I suppose I could have said "adversary", on the lines of the old story about the new member of parliament referring to the people on the other side as "the enemy". "No" says the oldere MP - "they are your adversaries - your enemies are on this side, behind you." But then, on some of the issues I mentioned, the people I'd be against are "on my side", so the term "enemy" seems more appropriate. Anyway it's a word I prefer. Can you imagine Jesus saying "love your adversaries" - doesn't have the right ring to it.

But anyway the point I was making was that the terms "conservative" and "radical" are relative and partial. We are all mixture of the two things, depending on where we live, and when we live, and all minds of other things. (And my other point was that when people use "liberal" as if it was the opposite of "conservative" they are debasing the language. So are people (and there are a lot of them round the world, if not in America) who use it as if it was the opposite of "radical".

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 04:31 PM

Great movie isn't it Kendall? The camp music scene mentioned above was well done, but the entire movie is quite compelling. We have an unfortunate tendency nowadays to learn pseudo-history through the movies, but "Matewan" stands out in its accuracy of portraying the times that did exist and the characters, though composite and fictionalized, are very real.

Spaw

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: kendall
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 04:22 PM

That movie "Matewan" shows one of the reasons I'm a Democrat. An old friend who lives in West (by god) Virginia says thats just how it was.

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: kendall
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 04:19 PM

I wouldn't say she is gorgeous, but, I wouldn't kick her out of my bed. I did exagerate some, never hears anyone say they wanted to "hang" Clinton...apparently, he already is.

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 04:10 PM

Oh, great, another Holywood actor for Prez....sure can pick 'em, NOT!

Rick! I am going to seriously have to question your taste in women! Monica...gorgeous??? Didja have on them funny glasses, again!?**BG**

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: DougR
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 12:31 PM

Naw, Kendall, he was probably just an NRA member.

First I've heard that somebody wanted to hang Clinton, though.

DougR

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 12:19 PM

Nah, Kendall. Probably one of the one's who was jealous of Bubba being a babe magnet. By the way..after 20 serious posts, I'm allowing myself a "trivial thread creep moment". I thought Monica was gorgeous...not bright, but gorgeous. I'll go away now.

Rick

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: kendall
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 11:00 AM

I saw a bumper sticker today that said "CHARLSTON HESTON IS MY PRESIDENT." I wonder if this guy is one of those who wanted to hang Clinton for lying?

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: sophocleese
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 09:45 AM

The example that Ontario is giving to world at the moment shows conservative = bully. A conservative is someone who believes that their right to swing their arms stops at your nose, unless they didn't notice you standing there in which case, if you get hit, it was your fault for not ducking, but why the hell should they have to be the ones looking where their arms are going? If everybody only worked hard, the same way they did (we had it tough, there were days when our incompetent day care providers didn't stop us from pouring blue paint on the small kid in class and then blamed US for the mess and made us apologize to the little crybaby) we would all be able to swing our arms with complete freedom and those that get hit are wimps, failures and burdens on society.

To be fair there are many people who used to vote conservative in this province that changed allegiance directly because of Mike Harris and his cronies. Their brand of conservatism was incompatible with his tactics and substitution of surface charm and cunning for social intelligence and responsibility.

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 09:42 AM

What frightens me is not that such a thoughtful and literate a group of human beans as this can't agree on clear definitions of these terms, as much as by the fact that so many people will cast their vote (and their lot) without thinking twice for or against people simply because they have one of these labels plastered to them by friends and/or foes.

Me? Like the late great Jimmie Rodgers "I wear my name (and political affiliation) on the tail of my shirt. . ."

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 09:28 AM

Never having to say you are sorry?

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: Ringer
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 05:53 AM

McGrath, you're illiberal! Can't we disagree on some political aspects without your calling me your enemy? Do you wish to rephrase your previous entry?

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: DougR
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 11:15 PM

Thanks, Guest No 2, some levity in this thread was about due!

DougR

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: GUEST, No 2
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 09:44 PM

C'mon, c'mon.
We've had 'Court T.V., we've had real life car chases and gun battles on prime time news.

When are we going to see on-line executions?

Subject: RE: How would 'YOU' define 'conservative'?
From: GUEST, No 2
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 09:38 PM

C'mon, we've had 'Court T.V., we've had real life car chases on prime time news.

When are we going to see on-line executions?

Guest No 2.

Not conservative at all, but giving you an insight into the future with them.